[Pc_Support] RE: [Fwd: Drives, RAID, backups oh my!]

[Damien McKenna]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bryan J. Smith [mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org] 
> 
> We have 1U DL360 systems here.  They have stopped buying the
> SmartArray/U320 versions and saved $1,000 by getting SATA bays/drives
> and I add a $125 3Ware Escalade 8006-2LP.

What's the real difference between the 8000 and 9000 series (64bit PCI
varieties)?  Does the 8000 series support hot-swapping?

With the 3Ware 8000 or 9000 cards, is it possible to:
* Set up multiple RAID-1 sets on the same card, e.g. set up one set now
and another as needs increase?
* With a RAID-1 hot-swap one of the drives without the system going
down, or do you have to take down the server to work on it?  I'm
thinking that if one drive fails of replacing it with another one, that
kinda thing.

> The "kicker" here is that "hot-swap" for U320 is _not_ the same for
> SATA.  You can put in $125 3Ware Escalade 8006-2LP drives with $125
> 320GB Western Digital Caviar RE (24x7 Near-line/RAID rated) SATA
> drives these days.  But they won't be hot-swap unless you have the
> trays.

What's needed to make SATA hot-swappable?  Do you need anything on the
inside or does the tray have all that's needed?  Is there a difference
between different trays or would $20-25 ones at NewEgg be ok?

> > The current DLT drive runs on this beastie.
> 
> What DLT version/capacity?

DLT1 - 40/80gb.

> If it's really old DLT (40/80GB), then I'd really push you towards
> LTO-1 (100/200GB) on-ward because it's sub-$1,000, tapes are sub-$25
> and it's damn fast -- let alone all current and planned (through
> LTO-1, 800/1600GB) will read them.  It's well worth the move!

It sure seems a good plan, though I'd prefer to go with something that
pushes further than our current usage so we won't fill it up too
quickly.

> You're definitely in some need of consolidation/uniformity.

Definitely.

> > Obviously the plan is immediately a little limited by the fact
> > that we only have one server with hot-swappable bays, so they may
> > be pushable to get another DL380 off ebay.
> 
> eBay is also a nice option.

One reason for another DL380, besides the fact they're affordable, is
the six hot-swappable bays.  The only question is whether they can be
changed/replaced to work with SATA?

> But don't be afraid to go Whitebox new either.
> E.g., ASLab has single-socket, dual-core Opteron 175 with (4) SATA
> hot-swap bays for $1,000.

I looked at them and the hot-swap machine started at just under $1200
with a single-core CPU, that's without a RAID card and only one drive,
adding those brings it to over $1700.

> Yes, 3Ware Escalade 8006-2LP and 8506-4LP controllers will do nicely
> on those ServerSet IV-GC/E7200/E7500 solutions.  I order them with
> SATA bays from HP, then add 3Ware cards.

How much are HP's SATA bays?

> > We could use the DL320's for ADS then have one DL380 for file and
> > one DL380 for email.
> 
> That sounds like a plan.

Its pretty realistic for our needs, the last part of the puzzle is the
drives.

> Just make sure you _dedicate_ filesystems to the duties.  Do _not_
> merge local operations with remote backup on C: -- not worth it.

Oh heck yes :)

> Also consider an "out-of-band" network for host-to-host.  Those DLs
> _should_ have dual NICs, so use the 2nd NIC for that.

Yep, they all have dual 100mbit NICs and setting up a second network for
the servers was going to be part of my plan.

> > I'll see what the costs are on them and include them.
> 
> Less than $400 gets you 320GB of redundant storage with a 3Ware
> Escalade 8006-2LP and (2) 320GB WD Caviar RE (24x7 rated) drives. 
> The DTR of the drives are 70MBps sustained, 100MBps burst.

Tempting.  $100 less would give us 2x160gb, which is still loads.

> You should get at least 50MBps sustained writes with 150MBps burst
> reads -- probably a crapload faster and better than those old
> i960-based SCSI RAID-5 arrays in your DLs.

The current "RAID" controller is just a SCSI adapter with software-based
crRpAID.

> > Yes, DLT, but I'm not too unconcerned about migrating to another
> > technology, we'd have to get all new tapes anyway so might as well
> > keep the drive too.
> 
> But what version/capacity?
> If you're still on old 40/80GB, then you're just wasting time and
> money.

Yeah, too bad I didn't look into LTO before Christmas, before we spent
another $250 on tapes.  They might have some resell value...

> > LTO-2 is ~$1000 on ebay, worth considering.
> 
> Yes, that is 200/400GB, 80MBps (compressed) DTR, although tapes are
> more towards LTO-3 pricing ($70/each, LTO-3 is $100/each).

Ah.. Pondersome.

> The price/media for LTO-1 (100/200GB, 40MBps, sub-$25/media) and
> LTO-3 (400/800GB, 160MBps, sub-$100/media) seem best IMHO.

The way I see it is that we're stuck in the middle.  I don't want us to
upgrade to something I think we're close to filling.  Then again, if I
separate the backups into permanent (things that never change e.g.
conference pictures) vs transient (ever-changing documents) and have two
backups per routine then it'd work out.

> Be careful about eBay purchases of tape drives.  Some companies are
> harder on the drives than others.  Especially if the drive was
> improperly used.

Yeah, I know, I got bitten that way already.  Need a DLT4000 drive that
can be easily repaired? ;-)

> > BTW, would the hot-swap bays in the DL380 work with SATA drives
> 
> No!  SCSI SCA and SATA staggered pinning are _completely_ different! 
> You need all new _backplanes_ as well as bays!

Gotchya.

> If you have 2x5.25" (atop of each other) bays free, you can get $90
> enclosures that let you put three (3) hot-swap SATA drives.

Nice, but our servers are all 1U or 3U.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>