[Pc_Support] RE: [Fwd: Drives, RAID, backups oh my!]

[William Warren]

glad to see you back bryan!..<G>

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
>> Let me explain a bit more of our current servers:
>> DL380 with P3/1266MHz, 1.256gb RAM, "Smart Array 5i" SCSI
>> controller, IDE controller, 2x 36gb SCSI drives as a JBOD
>> and space for up to six drives in the hot-swappable bays.
> 
> We have 1U DL360 systems here.  They have stopped buying the
> SmartArray/U320 versions and saved $1,000 by getting SATA bays/drives
> and I add a $125 3Ware Escalade 8006-2LP.
> 
> The "kicker" here is that "hot-swap" for U320 is _not_ the same for
> SATA.  You can put in $125 3Ware Escalade 8006-2LP drives with $125
> 320GB Western Digital Caviar RE (24x7 Near-line/RAID rated) SATA
> drives these days.  But they won't be hot-swap unless you have the
> trays.
> 
>> The current DLT drive runs on this beastie.
> 
> What DLT version/capacity?
> 
> If it's really old DLT (40/80GB), then I'd really push you towards
> LTO-1 (100/200GB) on-ward because it's sub-$1,000, tapes are sub-$25
> and it's damn fast -- let alone all current and planned (through
> LTO-1, 800/1600GB) will read them.  It's well worth the move!
> 
>> This is our current master beastie that runs Exchange Server
>> 2000, an email virus checker, an email spam checker, hosts most of
>> our files and our DNS.
>> DL320 with P3/1.1ghz, 392mb RAM, IDE controller, 1x 40gb IDE drive.
>> This is a development server that runs SQL Server 2000 for our
>> Blackberry interface, and does some file sharing.
>> DL320 with P3/1.1ghz, 1gb RAM, IDE controller, 2x 40gb IDE drive
>> as a stripped RAID of dymanic disks I presume using Windows
>> software RAID.  This is our current domain controller equivelant
>> and also does some file sharing.
>> Old Compaq tower server with a Pentium 233MHz and 64mb of RAM, 4gb
>> drive, Symbios 875XS|D/2280X.  This is our virus and VPN server.
> 
> You're definitely in some need of consolidation/uniformity.
> 
>> I'd like to limit our expenses as much as possible, i.e. no new
>> machines, just drives and controllers.  Obviously the plan is
>> immediately a little limited by the fact that we only have one
>> server with hot-swappable bays, so they may be pushable to get
>> another DL380 off ebay.
> 
> eBay is also a nice option.
> But don't be afraid to go Whitebox new either.
> 
> E.g., ASLab has single-socket, dual-core Opteron 175 with (4) SATA
> hot-swap bays for $1,000.
> 
>> According to:
> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c
> 00379627&lang=en&cc=us&taskId=101&prodSeriesId=316587&prodTypeId=15351
>> the DL380 has two 64bit/66MHz PCI slots and one 64bit/33MHz PCI
>> slot, so definitely expansion abilities for getting a RAID 
>> controller.
> 
> Yes, 3Ware Escalade 8006-2LP and 8506-4LP controllers will do nicely
> on those ServerSet IV-GC/E7200/E7500 solutions.  I order them with
> SATA bays from HP, then add 3Ware cards.  HP says they are not
> hot-swap, but that's only because they connect them to the on-board
> Intel "FRAID" controller.  They are the staggered SATA connections --
> both power and data -- and work flawlessly with 3Ware cards.
> 
> I'm also starting to evaluate Areca.  They are basically Intel's
> X-Scale RAID flagship now -- Adaptec and LSI are way behind in
> products/support (especially Adaptec on non-Windows).
> 
>> We could use the DL320's for ADS then have one DL380 for file and
>> one DL380 for email.
> 
> That sounds like a plan.
> 
>> Interesting idea.
> 
> Yes, especially if you have the storage!
> 
> Just make sure you _dedicate_ filesystems to the duties.  Do _not_
> merge local operations with remote backup on C: -- not worth it.
> 
> Also consider an "out-of-band" network for host-to-host.  Those DLs
> _should_ have dual NICs, so use the 2nd NIC for that.  If they _all_
> support 9000 byte jumbo frames on their GbE NICs, then consider using
> that too.
> 
>> I'll see what the costs are on them and include them.
> 
> Less than $400 gets you 320GB of redundant storage with a 3Ware
> Escalade 8006-2LP and (2) 320GB WD Caviar RE (24x7 rated) drives. 
> The DTR of the drives are 70MBps sustained, 100MBps burst.
> 
> You should get at least 50MBps sustained writes with 150MBps burst
> reads -- probably a crapload faster and better than those old
> i960-based SCSI RAID-5 arrays in your DLs.
> 
>> No PCIe :-(
> 
> Or PCI64/PCI-X.  I only mentioned PCIe because so many people put in
> non-PCI64/PCI-X systems and "cheap" PCIe systems.
> 
>> Yes, DLT, but I'm not too unconcerned about migrating to another
>> technology, we'd have to get all new tapes anyway so might as well
>> keep the drive too.
> 
> But what version/capacity?
> 
> If you're still on old 40/80GB, then you're just wasting time and
> money.
> 
> It would be better to go with a 10x faster, sub-$1,000 LTO-1
> (100/200GB) and $250 in ten (10) tapes for the next 7 months.  Do
> weekly backups, then make every 4th weekly permanent and take
> off-site.  That would let you take almost a quarter-TB off-line every
> week, and make a permanent backup that will be recoverable in 10
> years with (probably still current at the time) LTO-4.
> 
>> LTO-2 is ~$1000 on ebay, worth considering.
> 
> Yes, that is 200/400GB, 80MBps (compressed) DTR, although tapes are
> more towards LTO-3 pricing ($70/each, LTO-3 is $100/each).  The
> price/media for LTO-1 (100/200GB, 40MBps, sub-$25/media) and LTO-3
> (400/800GB, 160MBps, sub-$100/media) seem best IMHO.
> 
> Be careful about eBay purchases of tape drives.  Some companies are
> harder on the drives than others.  Especially if the drive was
> improperly used.
> 
>> Because that's $2000 that would better go elsewhere.
> 
> Understand.
> 
>> Right now we do daily backups and the VP takes home a tape on the
>> first of the month for permanent storage.
>> If we can get a good enough routine for everything else, I'll move
>> to that.
>> Thanks, I'll look that one up.
>> BTW, would the hot-swap bays in the DL380 work with SATA drives
> 
> No!  SCSI SCA and SATA staggered pinning are _completely_ different! 
> You need all new _backplanes_ as well as bays!
> 
> If you have 2x5.25" (atop of each other) bays free, you can get $90
> enclosures that let you put three (3) hot-swap SATA drives.
> 
> There are also $125 3x5.25" (atop of each other) enclosures that let
> you put five (5) hot-swap drives.
> 
>> if I were to set up e.g. a 3Ware 9500S-series card?
> 
> I'm having trouble recommending the 9500S or even the next 9550SX
> these days.  I either recommend RAID-10 with older 3Ware Escalade
> 8006/8506, or newer RAID-10 or RAID-6 with Areca ARC-11x0
> (PCI64/PCI-X -- the ARC-12x0 are the PCIe versions).
> 
> 
> 

-- 
My "Foundation" verse:
Isa 54:17  No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and 
every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt 
condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their 
righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape"
CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician)

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