From dave at dgnal.net Sat Jul 1 19:50:21 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:50:21 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Socket-AM2 may be the best investment now ... In-Reply-To: <1367.71.252.176.10.1151721621.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1148952178.2724.430.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1367.71.252.176.10.1151721621.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1212.71.252.176.10.1151797821.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> >> Unless you are going to recycle old DDR SDRAM -- which Socket-754 and >> 939 do most excellently -- going directly to Socket-AM2 (new 940) might >> be the best move. > > yes..but still not generally available yet?!?! I went down to MicroCenter > (Richardson, Texas) as they have a pretty good selection of BYOPC > stuff...no A M2 motherboards or CPU's...guess they're trying to sell all > of the existing inventory of AMD stuff?? Ahhh...Fry's has a pretty good selection of both single and dual core CPUs...along with a pretty good selection of motherboards...the one I was looking at (requiring mATX) as the Asus M2NPV-VM - but, duh! that's the only one they don't have quantity on!! geez...so close, but still so far... any ideas/comments on this or other motherboards? dave From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 1 23:38:58 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 23:38:58 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Socket-AM2 may be the best investment now ... In-Reply-To: <1367.71.252.176.10.1151721621.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1148952178.2724.430.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1367.71.252.176.10.1151721621.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1151811538.2971.52.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Fri, 2006-06-30 at 21:40 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > yes..but still not generally available yet?!?! I went down to MicroCenter > (Richardson, Texas) as they have a pretty good selection of BYOPC > stuff...no A M2 motherboards or CPU's...guess they're trying to sell all > of the existing inventory of AMD stuff?? Storefront retail _always_ lags mailorder by 3+ months. When Socket-939 hit, I couldn't find anything at Vegas' Fry's even 6 months after release! But NewEgg could ship it to me next day. ;-> I _rarely_ buy retail, with few exceptions. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From jasonb at edseek.com Sat Jul 1 23:53:13 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:53:13 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Home Server, is PCIe it? Message-ID: <200607012353.13847.jasonb@edseek.com> For a commodity x86 file server with a couple users at most, is PCIe where it's at? I know in the past, I'd buy an entry level server mainboard with independent PCI channels. (I haven't made it up to PCI-X systems yet.) I'd love to buy a midrange or highend workstation board instead ,though. I'm not looking to buy right now, but I'll probably do the new AMD stuff when the time comes. Also, my next workstation build will focus primarily on reduced power consumption and heat dissappation and hopefully be a lot quieter. My old AMD Athlon 1800+ is still fast enough for me, it's just loud and hot. If there isn't a question in there, it's: Could my next home file server mainboard purchase be a PCIe based system instead of a used enterprise grade x86 mainboard? Thanks. -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 2 00:49:11 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 00:49:11 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Home Server, is PCIe it? In-Reply-To: <200607012353.13847.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <200607012353.13847.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1151815751.2971.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-01 at 23:53 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > For a commodity x86 file server with a couple users at most, is PCIe where > it's at? PCIe for what? For a NIC, a "dumb" PCIe x1 is sub-$50, "entry-server" PCIe x4 is sub-$200, "enterprise-class" PCIe x4/x8 is $500+. For a storage controller, a "dumb" PCIe x1 is sub-$50, "entry-server" PCIe x4 is sub-$300, "enterprise-class" is PCIe x4/x8 is $500+ At some point, the "added cost" of the card makes PCIe v. PCI-X less relevant. Furthermore, even most "entry-server" PCIe cards are PCIe x4, and they do _not_ work in PCIe x1. CASE-IN-POINT: Before PCIe, it was _difficult_ to get "segmented" and "higher-DTR" I/O out of "consumer" mainboards. Now that PCIe is here, you _can_ get a few PCIe mainboards with x1 slots, maybe x2 or x4. But the "server-class" PCIe slot is a x8. In other words, "server-class" mainboards have PCI-X and/or PCIe x8 slots. > I know in the past, I'd buy an entry level server mainboard with > independent PCI channels. (I haven't made it up to PCI-X systems yet.) PCI-X is just the evolution of 3.3V PCI 64-bit, more clock (and a few other things). No big difference. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From jasonb at edseek.com Sun Jul 2 01:08:57 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 01:08:57 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Home Server, is PCIe it? In-Reply-To: <1151815751.2971.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <200607012353.13847.jasonb@edseek.com> <1151815751.2971.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200607020108.57267.jasonb@edseek.com> On Sunday 02 July 2006 00:49, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Sat, 2006-07-01 at 23:53 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > > For a commodity x86 file server with a couple users at most, is PCIe > > where it's at? > > PCIe for what? Well, for the bandwidth. From reading below it sounds like I'm in the same boat as before, though. Oh well. > For a NIC, a "dumb" PCIe x1 is sub-$50, > "entry-server" PCIe x4 is sub-$200, > "enterprise-class" PCIe x4/x8 is $500+. > > For a storage controller, a "dumb" PCIe x1 is sub-$50, > "entry-server" PCIe x4 is sub-$300, > "enterprise-class" is PCIe x4/x8 is $500+ > > At some point, the "added cost" of the card makes PCIe v. PCI-X less > relevant. Furthermore, even most "entry-server" PCIe cards are PCIe x4, > and they do _not_ work in PCIe x1. I figured as much. My goal would probably be dedicated channels for storage and network, as that's all the box would be doing. > CASE-IN-POINT: Before PCIe, it was _difficult_ to get "segmented" and > "higher-DTR" I/O out of "consumer" mainboards. Now that PCIe is here, > you _can_ get a few PCIe mainboards with x1 slots, maybe x2 or x4. But > the "server-class" PCIe slot is a x8. > > In other words, "server-class" mainboards have PCI-X and/or PCIe x8 > slots. Okay. My objective is primarily to have enough bandwidth to push serious I/O over GbE without contention between storage and network I/O. > > I know in the past, I'd buy an entry level server mainboard with > > independent PCI channels. (I haven't made it up to PCI-X systems yet.) > > PCI-X is just the evolution of 3.3V PCI 64-bit, more clock (and a few > other things). No big difference. Sure, but the mainboards that come with PCI-X tend to have more than one segment. ;) So, I guess I meant I hadn't moved to boards that have multiple, independent PCI-X busses, let alone a single one. The problem is probably I simply don't know what I need -- so I probably don't need anything right now, then. Someday, I'd like to be able to push more than 10MB/s on the network. (Pretending I have a switch that can handle that and all my cabling is good and the only missing component is a box with a GbE NIC.) I guess I'm not awake anymore tonight. Further, I'm really looking to shift all my future workstation/desktop purchases to favorite low wattage, even at the expense of some performance for my house. -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 2 01:25:37 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 01:25:37 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Home Server, is PCIe it? In-Reply-To: <200607020108.57267.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <200607012353.13847.jasonb@edseek.com> <1151815751.2971.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607020108.57267.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1151817937.10547.10.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 01:08 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Well, for the bandwidth. From reading below it sounds like I'm in the same > boat as before, though. Oh well. No, not necessarily. 32-bit @ 33MHz PCI is 133MBps -- _shared_. 2-bit @ 1.5GHz PCIe x1 is 250MBps** bi-directional -- _dedicated_. **NOTE: It's less than this, with 8/10 encoding. > I figured as much. It's still better to use a PCIe x1 "dumb" NIC or storage card than a PCI "dumb" NIC or storage card from an I/O saturation standpoint. > Okay. My objective is primarily to have enough bandwidth to push serious I/O > over GbE without contention between storage and network I/O. You _can_ do that for a SOHO using PCIe x1 slots. It's just not going to be like "enterprise" solutions. But certainly better than old PCI solutions. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From tim at mcdonough.net Sun Jul 2 11:04:12 2006 From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:04:12 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] XP Slows After Right-Clicking Desktop Message-ID: <44A7E06C.20500@mcdonough.net> I have an XP Pro system that slows to a crawl after I right-click the desktop. The system functions without a hitch otherwise. Once I right click the cursor is in the hour glass shape anytime the mouse is over the desktop. If application programs were already running they can still be accessed and they seem to respond normally as long as no additional windows need to be opened or resized. I cannot launch a new application. If the PC is left untouched it never returns to normal or opens the desktop right-click menu. At least not within 30 minutes or so which is the longest I've waited before hitting the reset switch. When in this condition the Task Manager (launched before I right click) shows only a couple of percent of CPU usage. Of course I would love to repair this without spending hours reloading Windows and all my applications. Any suggestions? Tim From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 2 13:30:37 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2006 13:30:37 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] XP Slows After Right-Clicking Desktop In-Reply-To: <44A7E06C.20500@mcdonough.net> References: <44A7E06C.20500@mcdonough.net> Message-ID: <1151861437.10547.19.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-02 at 10:04 -0500, Tim McDonough wrote: > I have an XP Pro system that slows to a crawl after I right-click the > desktop. The system functions without a hitch otherwise. > Once I right click the cursor is in the hour glass shape anytime the > mouse is over the desktop. If application programs were already > running they can still be accessed and they seem to respond normally > as long as no additional windows need to be opened or resized. I > cannot launch a new application. > If the PC is left untouched it never returns to normal or opens the > desktop right-click menu. At least not within 30 minutes or so which > is the longest I've waited before hitting the reset switch. > When in this condition the Task Manager (launched before I right > click) shows only a couple of percent of CPU usage. > Of course I would love to repair this without spending hours reloading > Windows and all my applications. Any suggestions? Turn off ActiveX, Javascript and any and all other access in Internet Explorer, then reboot. Verify these are still the settings and see if it improves. Yes, Internet Explorer is completely _tied-into_ the Windows Explorer (which is your desktop/GUI shell). -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 4 22:52:18 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:52:18 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Unified Display Interface (UDI) Message-ID: <1152067938.3555.58.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Despite people demonizing UDI because the MPAA approves of it, I hope it takes hold, which it should in the industry. It's really what we need -- an universally compatible interface that the DRM advocates like, but functionally/electrically works with non-DRM sources. http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=133 I've been purposely holding off on buying anything expensive with HDMI because of the issues with taking non-DRAM, DVI-only sources. My Philips 30" 540p/1080i TV/monitors have HDMI in but only cost me $300-400. The last thing I want to do is drop $2-3K on a 1080p TV and find out I can't put in a non-DRM signal. As a bonus, these new cables/connectors are supposed to take much higher bandwidths. So we don't have to use dual-DVI for 60Hz resolutions higher than 1600x1200 (as well as higher refresh rates at 1600x1200 or lower). -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 5 11:31:23 2006 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 11:31:23 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Unified Display Interface (UDI) In-Reply-To: <1152067938.3555.58.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1152067938.3555.58.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <9A09BCFE-1D98-4ADD-8A82-0A9AAF83524F@thelimucompany.com> On Jul 4, 2006, at 10:52 PM, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Despite people demonizing UDI because the MPAA approves of it, I > hope it > takes hold, which it should in the industry. It's really what we need > -- an universally compatible interface that the DRM advocates like, > but > functionally/electrically works with non-DRM sources. Of course it is going head-to-head against the video card industry's new push of DisplayPort (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort and http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1813963,00.asp? kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532). -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - dmckenna at thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060705/da7d2419/attachment.html From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 5 23:55:24 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 23:55:24 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Intel chipset-only DDR2 800 (PC6400) Message-ID: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Just FYI, I've been reading a lot of complaints about DDR2 800 (PC6400) modules that are Intel chipset-only. I.e., not only do they not work at the rated speed/timing for the new AMD Socket-AM2 (940) platform, but they do _not_ work with Intel processors on ATI, nVidia or SiS chipsets either. Most people have had to reduce the memory clock to 533 (PC4200) and/or change the voltage to non-JEDEC standard to get them to work in any non-Intel chipset. Again, not merely non-Intel processor, but Intel processor in non-Intel chipset too. Again, just FYI. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 6 00:15:58 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:15:58 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] eVGA NF44 SLI MicroATX mainboard now available via retail ... Message-ID: <1152159359.3555.192.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Although the list price is $199, it's available for around $100 (hit Froogle). http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=131-K8-NF44-AX I've been trying to find the manual on-line. It looks like it has three (3) physical PCIe x16 slots and (1) 32-bit PCI slot. The PCIe video electrical configurations are either (1) PCIe x16 or (2) PCIe x8. One slot is for I/O and electrically PCIe x1 (in both modes?). It's nice that they just physically use PCIe x16 for everything -- that way you can use physical PCIe x8 and x4 cards, even if they only are electrically using PCIe x1. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 6 00:52:32 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:52:32 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2006-07-05 at 23:50 -0500, David Simmons, P.E. wrote: > Bryan, > Any of that 'free advice' still floating around?...I'm trying to take your > recommendation (and because I've FINALLY been able to get some money aside > for a new box) on an AM2 system...but it's been frustrating. > Fry's seems to be the only place around here with 'a person connected' > purchase of AM2 parts. Was REALLY looking at the ASUS M2NPV-VM board - > but there's alot of discussion that the board is picky about ram. Always NewEgg.COM for me, with few exceptions. BTW, *WAIT* until July 24th. AMD is cutting x2 prices by up to 50%! Yes, you'll be able to get an Athlon64 x2 3800+ for under $175, possibly close to $150! Single-core will also be slashed 10-30%. > But I haven't seen anything about how well the onboard video is... > because of the large memory pipe, does the onboard 6150 perform as > well as a AGP or PCI-express board? Or is it still that 'onboard > video really stinks'? I answered that in my [running] blog post on video cards 1/3rd down: http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2006/02/geforce-6-and-7-series-variants-nuts.html In a nutshell, unless you have a GeForce 6/7 series, or a really high-end GeForce FX5800/5900 (_forget_ the 5200/5500/5700LE), on-board NV44 is better than those other GPUs. The GeForce FX5200/5500/5700LE really _suck_ ... _hard_. _Never_ buy one of those POS cards, get at least a GeForce 6200 instead. > I'd really like to setup a system to run SuSE 10.1 GLX....I normally have > a dual-monitor setup, so again - I'm kicked in the teeth that GLX does > 'do' dual-monitors (unless I do frame buffer sharing and REALLY stretch > the resolutino to be double-wide). Both Red Hat Composite Extension and SuSE's Compiz approaches do dual-head. > Was then looking at one of the 570 (or maybe 590) chipset boards and > separate PCIe video card - and the reviews said that the NorthBridge > really heats up and melts video cards (no liquid pipe cooling)...people > were suggesting an MSI board.... Active cooling has been recommended, yes. But most are okay with passive, as long as the airflow is good. > read another review that said only the > 667Mhz max ram will work...and, if possible, find 4-4-4-4 DDR2. Ahh, no, that is _incorrect_. The problem is that there is a lot of _Intel-chipset_only_ DDR2 800 (PC6400) out there. Not only do they not work on Socket-AM2 mainboards, they do _not_ work on Intel processor mainboards with an ATI, nVidia or SiS chipset. It's a major issue right now -- and not related to AMD Socket-AM2. There are several models that work with non-Intel chipsets at DDR2 800 (PC6400) on NewEgg.COM. Read the reviews. They detail what does and doesn't work. > Would really like to stick to a mATX design...and want to eventually have > this as a PXE booted system (no internal hard-drives)...that'll also run > VMWARE -> windows. > Any suggestions? All of the MicroATX Socket-AM2 products I've seen are nForce 410/430 at NewEgg.COM. I too am waiting to see a nForce 550/570 in MicroATX. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From dave at dgnal.net Thu Jul 6 16:27:32 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 15:27:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > BTW, *WAIT* until July 24th. AMD is cutting x2 prices by up to 50%! > Yes, you'll be able to get an Athlon64 x2 3800+ for under $175, possibly > close to $150! > > Single-core will also be slashed 10-30%. SO...what you're saying is: 1) find a AM2 motherboard with the features you want/need 2) look for the version of Athlon64 x2 that has the AM2 socket (newegg has both - Socket AM2 and Socket 939) 3) Pray that you already have DDR ram....given that the best price/performance now is DDR2 - this doesn't seem like 'big news' for those wishing to purchase a system from the 'ground up'? Am I missing something? - dave From dave at dgnal.net Thu Jul 6 16:32:45 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 15:32:45 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <5467.192.104.67.122.1152217965.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > 3) Pray that you already have DDR ram....given that the best > price/performance now is DDR2 - this doesn't seem like 'big news' for > those wishing to purchase a system from the 'ground up'? > > Am I missing something? - dave Geez....retract the above....Finally found the AMD X2 datasheet...and it lists both the DDR & DDR2 Integrated Memory Controller: Integrated Memory Controller ? Low-latency, high-bandwidth ? 144-bit DDR SDRAM at 100, 133, 166, and 200 MHz ? Supports up to four unbuffered DIMMs ? ECC checking with double-bit detect and single-bit correct Integrated Memory Controller ? Low-latency, high-bandwidth ? 144-bit DDR2 SDRAM controller operating at up to 400 MHz ? Supports up to four unbuffered DIMMs ? ECC checking with double-bit detect and singlebit correct SO...the X2 will do both DDR and DDR2?...is DDR2 only suppored on an AM2 socketted motherboard? Dave From dave at dgnal.net Thu Jul 6 16:36:50 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 15:36:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <63079.192.104.67.221.1152218210.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > 3) Pray that you already have DDR ram....given that the best > price/performance now is DDR2 - this doesn't seem like 'big news' for > those wishing to purchase a system from the 'ground up'? > > Am I missing something? - dave Geez....retract the above....Finally found the AMD X2 datasheet...and it lists both the DDR & DDR2 Integrated Memory Controller: Integrated Memory Controller (for 939 Socket) ? Low-latency, high-bandwidth ? 144-bit DDR SDRAM at 100, 133, 166, and 200 MHz ? Supports up to four unbuffered DIMMs ? ECC checking with double-bit detect and single-bit correct Integrated Memory Controller (for AM2 Socket) ? Low-latency, high-bandwidth ? 144-bit DDR2 SDRAM controller operating at up to 400 MHz ? Supports up to four unbuffered DIMMs ? ECC checking with double-bit detect and singlebit correct Dave From dave at dgnal.net Thu Jul 6 16:40:58 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 15:40:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <63079.192.104.67.221.1152218210.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <63079.192.104.67.221.1152218210.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <7019.192.104.67.221.1152218458.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > Integrated Memory Controller (for AM2 Socket) > ? Low-latency, high-bandwidth > ? 144-bit DDR2 SDRAM controller operating at up > to 400 MHz > ? Supports up to four unbuffered DIMMs > ? ECC checking with double-bit detect and singlebit > correct With the upper limit only being 400 MHz DDR2 (PC2-3200, right?) - is there a chance this won't have some of the memory/chipset issues (NewEgg reviews list how some of the AM2 boards say they can do 800Mhz - but practically max out at 533 for single processor AM2's?!?)? Thx - Dave From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 6 23:44:44 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 23:44:44 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1152243884.2888.36.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2006-07-06 at 15:27 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > SO...what you're saying is: > 1) find a AM2 motherboard with the features you want/need > 2) look for the version of Athlon64 x2 that has the AM2 socket > (newegg has both - Socket AM2 and Socket 939) Or just stick with Socket-939, _if_ you already have DDR memory, for now. It's not going to be as "future proof," but I'm still waiting on some better MicroATX Socket-AM2 choices. I'm seriously considering that eVGA Socket-939 board for now, especially if the Socket-939 Athlon64 x2 3800+ comes down as much as the Socket-AM2 version. > 3) Pray that you already have DDR ram....given that the best > price/performance now is DDR2 - this doesn't seem like 'big news' for > those wishing to purchase a system from the 'ground up'? ??? Understand Socket-939 uses DDR, Socket-AM2 uses DDR2. There is _no_ "special issue" with Socket-AM2 and DDR2. The _only_ issue is that some DDR2 800 (PC6400) does _not_ work on non-Intel chipsets -- and that includes ATI, nVidia, SiS and other chipsets for Intel Pentium 4/Core Duo processors too. You have to "slow it down" to DDR2 533 (PC4200) on those chipsets in many cases. So when you buy DDR2 800 (PC6400) SDRAM, make sure it works on non-Intel chipsets. You have to do that _regardless_ if your processor is LGA-775 or Socket-AM2 for anything less than a _genuine_ Intel i965 chipset, because they are Intel i965 _proprietary_ at DDR2 800 (PC6400). They only have a "compatibility" mode for older Intel DDR2 chipsets, as well as non-Intel DDR2 chipsets. > Am I missing something? - dave I didn't get why you switched from S-AM2/DDR2 in #1/#2 to DDR in #3? If you didn't know, DDR SDRAM is 184-pin, DDR2 SDRAM is 240-pin. They are _physically_incompatible_, hence DDR for S-939, DDR2 for S-AM2. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 6 23:48:05 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 23:48:05 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <5467.192.104.67.122.1152217965.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <5467.192.104.67.122.1152217965.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1152244085.2888.41.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2006-07-06 at 15:32 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > Geez....retract the above....Finally found the AMD X2 datasheet...and it > lists both the DDR & DDR2 Integrated Memory Controller: Yes, but the Socket-939 is 384 DDR traces (2x 184-pin DDR). Socket-AM2 is 480-pin DDR2 traces (2x 240-pin DDR2). > SO...the X2 will do both DDR and DDR2?... Forget the "X2" moniker for a moment. It just means there's an internal crossbar and multiple cores. The on-die memory controller is either DDR or DDR2. They can_not_ be both! > is DDR2 only suppored on an AM2 socketted motherboard? Correct. Socket-939 (single and x2) has two (2) DDR channels. Socket-AM2 (single and x2) has two (2) DDR2 channels. Multiple cores have _nothing_ to do with DDR v. DDR2. It's the packaging and on-die memory controller. > > Dave > > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support at matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 7 00:42:00 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 00:42:00 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <7019.192.104.67.221.1152218458.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <53967.192.104.67.122.1152217652.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <63079.192.104.67.221.1152218210.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <7019.192.104.67.221.1152218458.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1152247320.2888.59.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2006-07-06 at 15:40 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > With the upper limit only being 400 MHz DDR2 (PC2-3200, right?) There is no "upper-limit" to DDR or DDR2. Signaling is signaling. Timing is, of course, a larger issue. However, the JEDEC standards only go to 200MHz DDR (DDR400/PC3200 effective) and 400MHz DDR2 (DDR2-800/PC2-6400), respectively. There might be a higher JEDEC DDR standard than 200MHz DDR, I haven't kept up. Using non-JEDEC standard DIMMs is a good way to see incompatibility. > - is there a chance this won't have some of the memory/chipset > issues Memory/chipset issues are the _result_ of _non_ JEDEC compliance. There are a _lot_ of Intel _proprietary_ DDR2 SDRAM modules out there. They are JEDEC standard to _only_ DDR2 266MHz (DDR2-533/PC2-4200), and then they only work with the i945/955 for DDR2 333MHz (DDR2-677/PC2-5300) and i965 for (DDR2-800/PC2-6400). > (NewEgg reviews list how some of the AM2 boards say they can do 800Mhz Yes, the Socket-AM2 supports JEDEC specification DDR2 400MHz (DDR2-800/PC-6400). Of course, if you get a DDR2 module that only supports JEDEC to DDR2 266MHz (DDR2-533), then any speed above that is _proprietary_ or non-standard. > - but practically max out at 533 for single processor AM2's?!?)? No. JEDEC standards are everything to compatible. A lot of existing DDR2 only supports JEDEC DDR2 200,266MHz (DDR2-400,533/PC2-3200/4200). They don't support the newer JEDEC DDR2 333,400MHz (DDR2-667,800/PC2-5300/6400) standards -- of which, they may still not be final (is DDR2-800/PC2-6400 still draft?). -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From carter at carter.cc Sun Jul 9 00:44:40 2006 From: carter at carter.cc (Carter Manucy) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 00:44:40 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] NTFS Recovery Information Message-ID: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> Let me start with a 'stupid is as stupid does' story, then to the solution. I had a 300G drive that was my data drive on a Windows 2003 Server. In an effort to reduce the ridiculous number of servers I have in my house, I decided to install GSX server under Fedora. All was well until I started playing around. Note that playing around is generally a *bad* thing to do when you have any information that that you want to keep involved. I thought I'd be smart about things and not mount the NTFS volume that had all of this information on it. I'd gone and got two more 300G drives, which I planned to migrate to after I'd settled down my GSX install. So I had the drive in the system and attached, but not mounted. I eventually did get the system settled down, and I started figuring out the best way to migrate the data. I was debating between using Samba and a share on a Windows box, so I decided to play around with different ways of doing things - using Samba on the host OS vs. using Samba and WFS under Windows on a guest OS. It was at this point that things started to go bad... While playing around, I wasn't paying attention in GSX, and accidentally gave one of the guest OS's direct access to /dev/sda ... which just HAPPENED to not only be the 'default' drive GSX offers up when you add a direct-access drive to the guest OS, but also my drive with the data I DIDN'T want to mess with. Did I mention that I wasn't really paying attention when I was doing this? So I mount the drive in one of the guest OS's... XP I think. It didn't want to recognize the drive. Couldn't mount it. Wasn't importable. I didn't think a whole lot of it because I'd been messing around with one of the 'scratch' 300G drives (note to self: having too many of the same size drive can be a BAD thing). So I formatted it. BAD MOVE. It didn't take me too long to realize the drive I'd just formatted was the exact one I didn't want to touch. So I did what most folks do in this situation... go ask the guy who knows more than I do about things what to do! So I shot off an e-mail to Bryan Smith, who basically told me what I didn't want to hear - good luck, call a data recovery service - and quick, make a copy! DAMN! But I did have these 'extra' 300a drives ... so I immediately made an image of what was left of my 'good' drive with dd, and went to work with the new copy to see if I could do anything. Many "data recovery" programs later and I wasn't feeling much better. Most of them showed exactly what I already knew - it wasn't looking good. Then I came across another program called "GetDataBack NTFS". The site was a bit questionable, but I didn't have much to lose. They claimed the same as the rest - save reformatted partitions, bad drives, blah blah blah... but this one actually WORKED. So the next time you pull a bone-head move, there might still be hope for ya :) It recovered all my files, directories and everything... the only bad part was I had to have another drive to copy the files off to - but I can live with a limitation like that. "Losing time to stupidity" should be my trademark... Hope this helps someone else! -Carter From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 9 01:03:47 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 01:03:47 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> Message-ID: <1152421427.2886.32.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 00:44 -0400, Carter Manucy wrote: > So I shot off an e-mail to Bryan Smith, who basically told me what I > didn't want to hear - good luck, call a data recovery service - and > quick, make a copy! Well, I did take the time to describe the underlying organizational problem -- and correct several of your assumptions (FAT v. inode designs, etc...). But yes, I knew of no program that would re-read your NTFS filesystem and re-create it's FAT for you. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From jasonb at edseek.com Sun Jul 9 01:05:01 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 01:05:01 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <1152421427.2886.32.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <1152421427.2886.32.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> On Sunday 09 July 2006 01:03, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 00:44 -0400, Carter Manucy wrote: > > So I shot off an e-mail to Bryan Smith, who basically told me what I > > didn't want to hear - good luck, call a data recovery service - and > > quick, make a copy! > > Well, I did take the time to describe the underlying organizational > problem -- and correct several of your assumptions (FAT v. inode > designs, etc...). But yes, I knew of no program that would re-read your > NTFS filesystem and re-create it's FAT for you. ROFL. Did you really need to mention on-list that you had corrected him privately? ;) -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 9 01:41:40 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 01:41:40 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <1152421427.2886.32.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 01:05 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > ROFL. Did you really need to mention on-list that you had > corrected him privately? ;) Okay, now I'm pissed off. I was the one that suggested he post to PC_Support telling everyone about the utility he had found to fix NTFS filesystems where the FAT is screwed up. I'm not merely being "anal" or "touchy," I really didn't like how that statement I quoted read. So I'm sorry! But I didn't appreciate what he said about me because I did more than just say "you're screwed." We had several e-mails back and forth. It really came off in a way that put me in a very poor light. Especially after I've helped him with several other details -- all for free (even if it wasn't as much as he'd like). This is really one of the reasons I've *STOPPED* helping people**. I spend several e-mails or even several hours with them -- often 3, 4 or even 5 things -- and then they turn around and post something that makes me look like a fool who doesn't know anything. Steve Litt used to really piss me off with that -- repeatedly. I'm *SORRY* I didn't know of an utility that he needed. I was very happy when he found one and that's why I suggested he post such to PC_Support, so others would know. He could have posted that I didn't know of an utility and that would have been fine by me. I didn't merely say "you're screwed" and nothing else -- I tried to explain the problem. In fact, since I didn't know of a utility, I told him to dd the sucker before he did anything else. Yes, I told him maybe a data recovery service might have something. But that wasn't my only suggestion either. I really just didn't like how is statement made me sound. **Hell, even when I get off various lists, people still follow me off-list. Or when I've tried to make a point about something -- often in the heavy minority (possibly sole at times?) -- it's not worth helping anymore, even when 2-3 others with equivalent experience with a problem verify the majority is wrong and I am correct. I'm really experiencing that with LPI right now. I've got people telling me that LDAP is "too hard to cover," that "no one is running NFS" and "no one is using RBAC/MAC." If it was merely LPI level 1 and 2, I'd give in. But not for level 3/enterprise, when every Fortune 100 company I've worked at is using NFS, and the "Six Sisters" are deploying SELinux (which is key, because 55% of LPI's revenue comes from Japan). I'm really at the point where I'm just going to stop helping for free. When someone e-mails me off-list, I'm just going to tell them, "sorry, I've just had no good deed go unpunished too many times." It's not worth it anymore. God knows I could be making money, or spending it with my wife, for all those hours I spend helping people. Especially given how many hours I spend off-list that you guys don't even see. I get several e-mails _per_day_ outside of mailing lists -- from people who find my stuff in Google searches -- especially since I do things like append the subject line and use UseNet-era posting ettique that no one appreciates anymore (and many even ream me on!) Add in the hardware I've donated around and everything else and I really think some of you are a bunch of fscking leaches at times. Yes, this is me being an asshole and frank. I'm tired of being questioned every damn time I say, do, etc... anything! I've been questioned, probed, interrogated, etc... way too much as of late. It's like years of giving sound advise has just falling on deaf ears and I'm constantly questioned by people with far less experience and knowledge in an area. Especially when it doesn't fit an "agenda" -- I can't stand that either in the political space. I've got Linux users accusing me of being a Windows bigot, Windows users accusing me of being a Linux bigot, everyone accusing me of owning Apple, Microsoft, SCO, Sun, etc... stock ... blah, blah, blah. Especially when I'm providing information _they_ requested of _me_ -- "sorry I didn't give you the answer you wanted, but you asked." And God forbid when I don't know something, it's like, "well, I thought you were the expert!" No, the only expert is someone who has their experience and readily admits when they don't in an area. I'm really glad he found a solution, that's why I told him to post to PC_Support. But why he had to put in that paragraph is beyond me -- it really didn't read well considering all that went on off-list. Not only for this issue, but others he (among countless others) have had. Sorry, but this has been getting worse in the last 3 months. I know I'm getting old and I always have to question if I'm sharper or more senile as I'm hitting my mid-30s, but I really don't know what's up anymore. Then again, it seems to be following the attitude of America in general. Everyone wants more for less, free is always best, and we generally hate people who have more experience in an area, especially if we have to ask them for help, and damn them if they didn't have an answer anyway. And damn me for having a traditional engineering degree -- that seems to piss people off the most even though I *NEVER* hold it over anyone. Everyone seems to want to tell me how I didn't learn about X or Y or Z in college and how much better they are than I (duh, did you ever think I might have learned X and Y and Z outside of college, just like you?). Same deal with certs and other stupid credentials -- I don't like them either and I only have them because someone stupidly cares about them. I don't believe in them either. Sigh, I'm just glad I'm finding work I like that pays extremely well with people who are very capable. And I'm starting to think it's not so coincidental that these jobs are in the mid-west or north-east -- away from the south and west. Although at least in the west, I've had many jobs where I was respected for what I brought to the company -- something that I haven't seen in the south since the '90s. End of rant. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From jasonb at edseek.com Sun Jul 9 01:52:06 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 01:52:06 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> On Sunday 09 July 2006 01:41, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 01:05 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > > ROFL. Did you really need to mention on-list that you had > > corrected him privately? ;) > > Okay, now I'm pissed off. > > I'm *SORRY* I didn't know of an utility that he needed. I was very > happy when he found one and that's why I suggested he post such to > PC_Support, so others would know. He could have posted that I didn't > know of an utility and that would have been fine by me. I didn't merely > say "you're screwed" and nothing else -- I tried to explain the problem. I think you're taking it too personally. The way I read his message was... "I emailed Bryan and he explained I was pretty screwed... I thought all hope was lost, but in a last ditch effort I finally found a solution and I'm so excited I wanted to share..." But that was just me. -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 9 02:37:11 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 02:37:11 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 01:52 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > I think you're taking it too personally. I'm taking a lot "too personally" as of late. > The way I read his message was... > "I emailed Bryan and he explained I was pretty screwed... I thought all hope > was lost, but in a last ditch effort I finally found a solution and I'm so > excited I wanted to share..." Here's the quote ... "So I shot off an e-mail to Bryan Smith, who basically told me what I didn't want to hear - good luck, call a data recovery service - and quick, make a copy!" This is one of the reasons I ask people _not_ to mention my name anytime I discuss something off-list. People might think I'm "nit-picking," but given how I've been treated the last few months in various forums, I honestly give up. I've really taken it. Someone on the SuSE list just totally started slamming MacOS X on resource usage and eye-candy, right after someone else post that SCO was going after Linux users. I then tried to explain where Apple "does it right" (especially Cocoa/Aqua and QuartzExtreme), just like I had just previously pointed out that SCO has only sued its existing licensees (e.g., Autozone, Crysler, etc...) and you're safe as long as you don't have a contract with SCO. I got slammed and slammed again by many, many people. Someone "got smart" and acted like I didn't know much about Linux because I must use Apple or SCO, and assumed I don't know much about Linux. "That's great - I'm glad there are folks like you out there... but I specialize in linux, because that way I get to work on the cool fun stuff." I guess I never work on "Linux" or the "cool fun stuff." Sigh. Since 2003, I haven't posted on anything I'm working on because some people (e.g., Steve Litt) have called my employers. I'm in New England right now working on a very high-profile Linux product. And some of you I've talked to privately in 2004-2005 know of some of my other Linux integration and projects. I really don't like to talk credentials, because someone else always has more. Furthermore, they tend to damper technical discussions. We *ALL* have our experience to contribute, and *NO*ONE* is greater than another. For me, it's gotten to the point where, despite my posting sound technical information -- repeatedly -- for months or even years, people think I'm a "noob" in some area because I'm not preaching that Linux, Windows, whatever is the greatest thing, or pointing out issues with something. Especially when I'm "going against the current." Probably the Linux developer I admire and feel sorry for the most is Peter Avin. He _really_ gets slammed because his boot loaders are used by so many people -- especially lots of non-technical people trying to solve problems for OSes/systems that don't on their own. I don't know how he keeps helping people, although sometimes he'll really go off and then people get pissed at him (wrongly so IMHO). Which is why I'm just starting to withhold help more and more, because I end up having to explain my experiences that have lead to my conclusions over and over and over again. And then other people bitch about the volume I posted to explain them -- not giving me an ounce of respect for it. Which is why I really think it's time to go ... and I mean really go for a _long_time_. And that includes no longer helping people off-list too. Just letting things silently drop. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 9 02:44:33 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 02:44:33 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 02:37 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > For me, it's gotten to the point where, despite my posting sound > technical information -- repeatedly -- for months or even years, people > think I'm a "noob" in some area because I'm not preaching that Linux, > Windows, whatever is the greatest thing, or pointing out issues with > something. Especially when I'm "going against the current." That's what really pisses me off most. I'll point out issues with Linux, defend Microsoft, etc... My statements don't match the "political alignments" people have for the platforms they "defend as best." Sorry. Then they call me "wishy-washy" on whatever they do and don't like -- just like most Democrats and Republicans do on my political views. Sigh. It's _never_ "wishy-washy" to have a fixed set of sound, technical views and apply them _evenly_ across _all_ platforms. Hell, you want to see me really "way outside the box"? Get me started on religion and spirituality, marriage and sex, gossip and truth, values and hypocrites, etc... Some people will talk away thinking I'm a pagan, biligmist, pervert and unprincipled while others will walk away thinking I'm a religious nut, extreme monogamist, prude and goodie-two-shoes. Hell, engineers think I'm an useless IT professional and IT professionals think I'm an useless engineer. I'm tired of everyone think I'm whatever they are not, just because I don't agree with everything that is in their agenda. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From carter at carter.cc Sun Jul 9 10:38:15 2006 From: carter at carter.cc (Carter Manucy) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 10:38:15 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> Oy.... Okay, first and foremost, Bryan, I apologize. I didn't mean for it to come across in that light. It was quite late for me, I'd had a long day, and I was trying to make fun of myself, not you in that post. I DID think about the way I'd worded that, but came to the conclusion that it didn't seem as bad as you've taken it. For that I apologize - now that I think about it I should have either included more info, or just left it out. That was poor judgment on my part. Also for the record, I fully appreciate all the help you've given me over the years. It's helped me not waste a lot of time researching things that "don't matter". It's helped me get started in the right direction, which again has saved ME countless hours. And of course I do appreciate the "for free" aspect - but to be completely fair, I have offered to pay you for some advice/consulting. And I don't blame you one iota for being too busy to handle everything I (or others) ask of you - I know how it is myself being in a similar role with others. It DOES get tiresome of answering questions and getting (next to) nothing in return. I do know that often folks make remarks and I don't read them the way you do - I follow along with the thread and often thing "I surely didn't get THAT out of the question!" - but it's not my question and it's not my place. Just be aware that not ALL of us are out to take advantage of you, and I, for one, certainly appreciate ALL the help you've given me. So one again, I apologize, and thank you. In this one instance, you may not have been able to give me the right answer I needed right off the bat, but you STILL saved me time, and I did get a *good* solution. What more could I want? -Carter From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 9 11:15:48 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 11:15:48 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> Message-ID: <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 10:38 -0400, Carter Manucy wrote: > I DID think about the way I'd worded that, but came to the conclusion > that it didn't seem as bad as you've taken it. Understand you're getting flak because I'm frustrated with both many lists and with many off-list e-mails I'm getting as of late. It's not really anything you did that was a big deal. Just a small dot in the massive, drowning noise I've dealt with as of late. To date this year, I've spend almost $3,000 in travel to help people and non-profit organization (not including lost wages/billables during those times). I'm starting to realize that it's really not worth it. I ended up not going to work just yesterday because of many "free" things I was doing for many people and non-profit organizations. And they not only not being appreciated, but constantly challenged. I should have gone into work, making $70/hour + per-diem instead, with extensive overtime (which is approved). I really have my priorities screwed up I'd say. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From whittake at sbaflorida.com Sun Jul 9 14:28:45 2006 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 14:28:45 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1152469725.15553.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 11:15 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 10:38 -0400, Carter Manucy wrote: > > I DID think about the way I'd worded that, but came to the conclusion > > that it didn't seem as bad as you've taken it. > > Understand you're getting flak because I'm frustrated with both many > lists and with many off-list e-mails I'm getting as of late. > > I should have gone into work, making $70/hour + per-diem instead, with > extensive overtime (which is approved). I really have my priorities > screwed up I'd say. ;-> Yup > > From whittake at sbaflorida.com Sun Jul 9 15:22:17 2006 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 15:22:17 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1152472937.15553.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 11:15 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 10:38 -0400, Carter Manucy wrote: > > I DID think about the way I'd worded that, but came to the conclusion > > that it didn't seem as bad as you've taken it. > > Understand you're getting flak because I'm frustrated with both many > lists and with many off-list e-mails I'm getting as of late. > > It's not really anything you did that was a big deal. Just a small dot > in the massive, drowning noise I've dealt with as of late. Bryan: You are getting into one of your "moods" again. I was searching back into the archives looking up blogs and I came across the following that was posted a year and a half ago. Sound familiar???? the thread takes us back to my original post on the subject in that I "suggested" that we change the name of the APP archive to something other than the unused "app" name. I personally mostly agree with Max's comments on how, what, why and when. However, my suggestion would leave the BS as it now is, say anything, anytime, about anything, that you may want to. Next point. TheBS, Phil, Mark and many,many others need to have a substantial amount of verbiage to get their technical points across. Some do it succinctly and other need pages. Bryan absolutely does not know how to say "No" or "Yes", and this is fine. He makes up for it in many many ways. He and the other Garus have been of enormous help to me over the years. On the other hand, when most Linux associated topics come up they really do not demand a long, verose technical discussion to clear the matter up for me (at least in my mind). A simple do this, do that, or punt will suffice thank you. All of the above indicates to me that we might very well consider the change that I have suggested. After all we put the "Apps" archive in with little or no discussion. I suggested that and BINGO it was a done deal! Why try to beat Bryan or anyone else up for attempting to help us? Once again if it helps the helper to use different words to get the message across to the helpies then so be it. We are not rewriting the Bible guys! From tec at speakeasy.net Sun Jul 9 19:21:31 2006 From: tec at speakeasy.net (Thomas) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 16:21:31 -0700 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <1152472937.15553.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152472937.15553.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1152487291.2509.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've learned quite a bit from reading postings from this list and find Bryan's postings to be quite through and very helpful. :) Cheers, Thomas On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 15:22 -0400, Homer Whittaker wrote: > On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 11:15 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 10:38 -0400, Carter Manucy wrote: > > > I DID think about the way I'd worded that, but came to the conclusion > > > that it didn't seem as bad as you've taken it. > > > > Understand you're getting flak because I'm frustrated with both many > > lists and with many off-list e-mails I'm getting as of late. > > > > It's not really anything you did that was a big deal. Just a small dot > > in the massive, drowning noise I've dealt with as of late. > > Bryan: You are getting into one of your "moods" again. I was searching > back into the archives looking up blogs and I came across the following > that was posted a year and a half ago. > > Sound familiar???? > > the thread takes us back to my original post on the subject > in that I "suggested" that we change the name of the APP archive to > something other than the unused "app" name. > I personally mostly agree with Max's comments on how, what, why and > when. However, my suggestion would leave the BS as it now is, say > anything, anytime, about anything, that you may want to. > Next point. TheBS, Phil, Mark and many,many others need to have a > substantial amount of verbiage to get their technical points across. > Some do it succinctly and other need pages. Bryan absolutely does not > know how to say "No" or "Yes", and this is fine. He makes up for it in > many many ways. He and the other Garus have been of enormous help to me > over the years. > On the other hand, when most Linux associated topics come up they really > do not demand a long, verose technical discussion to clear the matter up > for me (at least in my mind). A simple do this, do that, or punt will > suffice thank you. > All of the above indicates to me that we might very well consider the > change that I have suggested. After all we put the "Apps" archive in > with little or no discussion. I suggested that and BINGO it was a done > deal! > Why try to beat Bryan or anyone else up for attempting to help us? Once > again if it helps the helper to use different words to get the message > across to the helpies then so be it. > We are not rewriting the Bible guys! > > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support at matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support > From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 9 23:28:25 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 23:28:25 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <1152469725.15553.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152469725.15553.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1152502105.2880.15.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 14:28 -0400, Homer Whittaker wrote: > Yup I guess I was looking for an excuse not to work on a Saturday, but I just ended up working anyway (but for no pay). Sigh. Oh well, I put in a 8 hour day on Sunday. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 9 23:31:08 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2006 23:31:08 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan doesn't know jack (so no sense in asking him) -- WAS: NTFS Recovery Information In-Reply-To: <1152472937.15553.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152472937.15553.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1152502268.2880.19.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 15:22 -0400, Homer Whittaker wrote: > Bryan: You are getting into one of your "moods" again. No, really? ;-> > Bryan absolutely does not know how to say "No" or "Yes", and this is fine. "No" and "Yes" is about as helpful as "Us" and "Them." One thing I really get tired out of the IT world is the "Us" v. "Them." There are _rarely_ 2 answers. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------- The existence of Linux has far more to do with the breakup of AT&T's monopoly than anything Microsoft has ever done. From wam at HiWAAY.net Tue Jul 11 15:25:20 2006 From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:25:20 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD64 chipset Linux support .... Message-ID: <44B3FB20.2020300@HiWAAY.net> .... I am looking at the Asus A8V Mbd (Via K8T800 chipset, ~$62.00 on pricewatch) for a hypothetical Opteron box. How is Linux support for this chipset ? I have an older (S370 PIII) box, this one as it happens, w/ a Via 694 chipset & love it. Can I look forward to the same great performance & reliability under Linux (FC5 most likely) w/ the K8T800 ? TIA .... -- William A. Mahaffey III ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war ever devised by man." -- Gen. George S. Patton From darbit at gmail.com Tue Jul 11 17:09:02 2006 From: darbit at gmail.com (David Harris) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:09:02 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Where to buy monitors in Florida? Message-ID: <64beb5490607111409q66a0b139v65250b36c7bed52c@mail.gmail.com> Greetings all, Two weeks ago one of the two 15 inch CRT monitors that I have in my college apartment, totally died. I fell asleep with the monitor on, then when I woke up the thing was dead. There was no green (or amber) power light when pressing the on/off power switch on the monitor. I tried to hook the monitor up to my other pc to see if it was the graphics card in the original PC - and still had the same results. I researched the problem on the internet and found only one link with some information on this. One person on the webpage I found suggested that a fuse could have shorted inside that persons monitor and that even if you did manage to fix it it could just break again. Is this true? If so, then what could have caused such a fuse? I'm not an engineer or an electrician so I don't know as much about these things as I'd like to, hence why I'm asking. My main question though is where can you purchase a relatively decent CRT monitor these days, preferably somewhere in the Central Florida area. Thanks in advance and sorry if someone's posted something like this before, I've only been subscribed to PC_Support for about a month. David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060711/7c7c60a0/attachment.html From damien at mc-kenna.com Tue Jul 11 18:05:46 2006 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:05:46 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Where to buy monitors in Florida? In-Reply-To: <64beb5490607111409q66a0b139v65250b36c7bed52c@mail.gmail.com> References: <64beb5490607111409q66a0b139v65250b36c7bed52c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <44B420BA.2090302@mc-kenna.com> David Harris wrote: > My main question though is where can you purchase a relatively decent > CRT monitor these days, preferably somewhere in the Central Florida area. Try http://orlando.craigslist.com/sys/ -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien at mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 12 00:26:52 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:26:52 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD64 chipset Linux support .... -- NEVER desktop chipset for server In-Reply-To: <20060711213451.32182.qmail@webmail4.knology.net> References: <> <20060711213451.32182.qmail@webmail4.knology.net> Message-ID: <1152678413.2880.17.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 21:34 +0000, John A. Ellis wrote: > I have 6 boxes running AMD64 CPUs and Via chipsets, including the very > board you are looking at in one box. All run Linux extraordinarily well. > Press on, you'll be happy. _Never_ use a desktop (much less consumer) chipset for a server. I wrote my response to the AMD64 list, before I even realized it was William: https://www.redhat.com/archives/amd64-list/2006-July/msg00014.html -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 12 00:35:04 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:35:04 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD64 chipset Linux support .... -- NEVER desktop chipset for server In-Reply-To: <1152678413.2880.17.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <> <20060711213451.32182.qmail@webmail4.knology.net> <1152678413.2880.17.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200607120035.04929.jasonb@edseek.com> On Wednesday 12 July 2006 00:26, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Tue, 2006-07-11 at 21:34 +0000, John A. Ellis wrote: > > I have 6 boxes running AMD64 CPUs and Via chipsets, including the very > > board you are looking at in one box. All run Linux extraordinarily well. > > Press on, you'll be happy. > > _Never_ use a desktop (much less consumer) chipset for a server. > > I wrote my response to the AMD64 list, before I even realized it was > William: > https://www.redhat.com/archives/amd64-list/2006-July/msg00014.html True that. I replaced a SiS745(?) chipset XP 1800+ with an older ServerWorks IIILE based board with dual P3 coppermine 733MHz CPUs and there was a noticeable increase in performance without running any kind of benchmark. I guess if I ever replace that I should stick to entry level server grade equipment. -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 12 00:44:53 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:44:53 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD64 chipset Linux support .... -- NewEgg Server Mainboard Category In-Reply-To: <1152678413.2880.17.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <> <20060711213451.32182.qmail@webmail4.knology.net> <1152678413.2880.17.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1152679494.2880.27.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 00:26 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > _Never_ use a desktop (much less consumer) chipset for a server. > I wrote my response to the AMD64 list, before I even realized it was > William: > https://www.redhat.com/archives/amd64-list/2006-July/msg00014.html FYI, NewEgg _does_ have a server mainboard category: http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/SubCategory.asp?SubCategory=302 An Intel E7210 with two (2) PCI-X 66MHz slots starts at $180: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128261 A ServerWorks HT1000 with one (1) PCI-X 133MHz slot starts at $235: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813182078 There are also various options with PCIe x4 and x8 slots (with or without PCI-X) for storage/communication (in case your storage or you have a more powerful, off-chipset GbE) is a PCIe x4 or x8 card) for both single Socket-478/LGA-775 as well as Socket-939. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From ellisja at knology.net Tue Jul 11 17:34:51 2006 From: ellisja at knology.net (John A. Ellis) Date: 11 Jul 2006 21:34:51 -0000 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: AMD64 chipset Linux support .... In-Reply-To: <> References: <> Message-ID: <20060711213451.32182.qmail@webmail4.knology.net> I have 6 boxes running AMD64 CPUs and Via chipsets, including the very board you are looking at in one box. All run Linux extraordinarily well. Press on, you'll be happy. John On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:25:20 -0500, "William A. Mahaffey III" wrote : > > .... I am looking at the Asus A8V Mbd (Via K8T800 chipset, ~$62.00 on > pricewatch) for a hypothetical Opteron box. How is Linux support for > this chipset ? I have an older (S370 PIII) box, this one as it happens, > w/ a Via 694 chipset & love it. Can I look forward to the same great > performance & reliability under Linux (FC5 most likely) w/ the K8T800 ? > TIA .... > > -- > William A. Mahaffey III > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war > ever devised by man." > -- Gen. George S. Patton > > > ---- > LUNA-LIST help: luna-list-help at luna.huntsville.al.us > To unsubscribe: luna-list-unsubscribe at luna.huntsville.al.us > To email the list keeper: dgregg at knology.net > LUNA-LIST Web Site: > > > > From carter at carter.cc Wed Jul 12 10:39:42 2006 From: carter at carter.cc (Carter Manucy) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:39:42 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Looking for good 4U case... In-Reply-To: <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> I'm on the hunt for a good 4U case that'll hold a EATX board (12x13) and has a rail kit with it. I don't need any kind of backplane, although a redundant PS is definitely a plus. Target price is $400 or less (including PS - and no cheap "Super Mondo Power" PS!). So far Newegg is striking out for me... personal experience with the case is also preferred, as I'd hate to be the one to find out when I get it that I can't mount something in it I need to! -Carter From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 12 20:36:16 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 20:36:16 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Looking for good 4U case... -- got one for $60 In-Reply-To: <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> Message-ID: <1152750976.2935.40.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 10:39 -0400, Carter Manucy wrote: > I'm on the hunt for a good 4U case that'll hold a EATX board (12x13) and > has a rail kit with it. I don't need any kind of backplane, although a > redundant PS is definitely a plus. Target price is $400 or less > (including PS - and no cheap "Super Mondo Power" PS!). I have a used 4U for sale (it might be 5U -- but I think it's 4U). - 8x 5.25" bays on the bottom * 6 have aluminum ATA hot-swap bays with 60mm bottom fans in tray - 1x 3.5" in the bottom-middle - 2x 5.25" bays on the top - Rails (generic, but they work with APC/Compaq racks) No PS, but it takes a standard ATX PS. I'd sell it cheap -- maybe $120, $60 if you don't want the aluminum ATA hot-swap bays (they cost me $25/each -- so I'll include them for $10/each). It's got scratches, but it's very functional. > So far Newegg is striking out for me... personal experience with the > case is also preferred, as I'd hate to be the one to find out when I get > it that I can't mount something in it I need to! Mine was okay. I didn't like the mid-mounted 2x80mm fans and the 2x40mm fans above the CPUs failed too quickly. I just put in a mid-mounted, single 120mm fan and that did very well. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 12 20:37:07 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 20:37:07 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Looking for good 4U case... -- got one for $60 In-Reply-To: <1152750976.2935.40.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> <1152750976.2935.40.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1152751027.2935.42.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 20:36 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > No PS, but it takes a standard ATX PS. FYI, it _will_ fit an EEB SSI EPS12V power supply too. It's well big enough for it. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From carter at carter.cc Wed Jul 12 21:17:17 2006 From: carter at carter.cc (Carter Manucy) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:17:17 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Looking for good 4U case... -- got one for $60 In-Reply-To: <1152750976.2935.40.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> <1152750976.2935.40.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <44B59F1D.6040000@carter.cc> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > I have a used 4U for sale (it might be 5U -- but I think it's 4U). > > - 8x 5.25" bays on the bottom > * 6 have aluminum ATA hot-swap bays with 60mm bottom fans in tray > - 1x 3.5" in the bottom-middle > - 2x 5.25" bays on the top > - Rails (generic, but they work with APC/Compaq racks) > > No PS, but it takes a standard ATX PS. > > I'd sell it cheap -- maybe $120, $60 if you don't want the aluminum ATA > hot-swap bays (they cost me $25/each -- so I'll include them for > $10/each). > That'd be a deal ... but you say ATA? This box will be SATA (off of a 9500) - probably pushing 4-5 drives. What I ended up finding was a SuperMicro case. They (newegg) doesn't list the rail kit, but I found you can add one to it. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811152053 - comes with an 8xSATA backplane, 2x5.25" EATX and 645W single PS for $370. Rail kit will probably run me another $50 (!), but it's worth it... the rack is a generic POS from Skycraft, so I need a good bit of flexibility in the kit for sure :) Cooling shouldn't be an issue in this case... 6x80mm, with that plastic airflow guide I'm seeing in just about every new server now. Other parts list include a Tyan S2882UG3NR-D, 2xCorsair 1GB LP ECC PC3200, 2x74G Raptor, 3-4x400G WD YR SATA, 1x Opteron 270 (for now). -Carter From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 12 21:52:51 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:52:51 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Looking for good 4U case... -- got one for $60 In-Reply-To: <44B59F1D.6040000@carter.cc> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> <1152750976.2935.40.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B59F1D.6040000@carter.cc> Message-ID: <1152755571.2935.83.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2006-07-12 at 21:17 -0400, Carter Manucy wrote: > That'd be a deal ... but you say ATA? This box will be SATA (off of a > 9500) - probably pushing 4-5 drives. Then I'll take the bays out, sell it to you for $60, and you can add something like this for under $150: http://us.enlightcorp.com/Product/Product_Detail.aspx?ID=201 > What I ended up finding was a SuperMicro case. They (newegg) doesn't > list the rail kit, but I found you can add one to it. > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811152053 - comes > with an 8xSATA backplane, 2x5.25" EATX and 645W single PS for $370. > Rail kit will probably run me another $50 (!), but it's worth it... the > rack is a generic POS from Skycraft, so I need a good bit of flexibility > in the kit for sure :) If you want to go for new, no problem. There are $250 options with 4-6 SATA drives from SuperMicro that might do fine. In fact, if you want the backplane/hot-swap SATA, that would be cheaper than buying my older case and adding the EN-8721. I'm just looking to rid myself of this case. I put a pedestal underneath my desk for my server now. The disks are fixed, except for one hot-swap. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From whittake at sbaflorida.com Thu Jul 13 17:23:55 2006 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:23:55 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Looking for an External Hard Drive Enclosure In-Reply-To: <1152751027.2935.42.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> <1152750976.2935.40.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152751027.2935.42.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1152825836.12788.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have searched the internet for a good enclosure that works with lINUX AND will not burn the hard drive up from overheating. No luck so far. Anyone have any suggestions. Homer Whittaker From lists at brianrose.net Thu Jul 13 19:10:55 2006 From: lists at brianrose.net (Brian Rose) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:10:55 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Looking for good 4U case... In-Reply-To: <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> Message-ID: <44B6D2FF.6060601@brianrose.net> Carter Manucy wrote: > I'm on the hunt for a good 4U case that'll hold a EATX board (12x13) and > has a rail kit with it. I don't need any kind of backplane, although a > redundant PS is definitely a plus. Target price is $400 or less > (including PS - and no cheap "Super Mondo Power" PS!). I have a couple Chenbro cases (1 2U and one 4U) that house my machines. I am very satisfied with the construction and quality and a nice washable air filter on it (that I need to keep cat hair out of my PCs). I bought them both from http://www.serversdirect.com/ for around $150 minus the power supply. They have various models depending on whether you want a general PC setup, disk cluster, etc. From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 14 00:27:39 2006 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Patrick) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:27:39 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Looking for an External Hard Drive Enclosure In-Reply-To: <1152825836.12788.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <44B089B8.5020004@carter.cc> <200607090105.01970.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152423700.2886.70.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <200607090152.06327.jasonb@edseek.com> <1152427031.2886.125.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152427473.2886.133.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B114D7.1060607@carter.cc> <1152458148.2886.199.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44B509AE.4040903@carter.cc> <1152750976.2935.40.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152751027.2935.42.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1152825836.12788.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <44B71D3B.8090302@cfl.rr.com> Homer Whittaker wrote: > I have searched the internet for a good enclosure that works with lINUX > AND will not burn the hard drive up from overheating. > No luck so far. Anyone have any suggestions. > Homer Whittaker > > > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support at matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support > > Cheap Guys has them on the shelf, $29 ($31.54 out the door). I bought three, installed 80 Gb drives, that are formatted for the various filesystems I use: one each for, Linux EXT3; a 5Gb Fat32, and a 75Gb Ext3; and a HFS+ (MacIntosh OS X)... Been three weeks, no heat problems, yet! Some stay on over night, when I fall asleep while letting them copy... AND, they run in USB 2.0 and/or Firewire 400!!! Come with all the cables, PSU, and the proper OO philips screwdriver for the case screws! From thomas at tecsplace.com Fri Jul 14 01:05:35 2006 From: thomas at tecsplace.com (Thomas Carlson) Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:05:35 -0700 Subject: [Pc_Support] Conroe to save the day? Message-ID: <1152853535.2537.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Folks, Do you think it will save Intel from AMD's recent gains? From the downward trend in stock price, it doesn't look good. Is the market right? Tomorrow should be interesting to see what the reviewers can say once the NDA is done. >From wikipedia... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Next_Generation_Microarchitecture Cheers, Thomas From damien at mc-kenna.com Fri Jul 14 22:39:10 2006 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:39:10 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] PC100/PC133 memory? Message-ID: <44B8554E.1080200@mc-kenna.com> My sister is looking for some spare PC100 or PC133 RAM, 128mb or 256mb would be fine. Anyone got any to spare and be available this Saturday for me to pick it up? Thanks. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien at mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 16 01:26:54 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:26:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] PC100/PC133 memory? In-Reply-To: <44B8554E.1080200@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <20060716052654.64526.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > My sister is looking for some spare PC100 or PC133 RAM, 128mb or > 256mb would be fine. Anyone got any to spare and be available > this Saturday for me to pick it up? Thanks. For what chipset? I have 256MB PC100 Registered ECC, but it only works on i440 series. It will _not_ work on i8xx series, and probably not many ViA or other chipsets either. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Americans don't get upset because citizens in some foreign nations can burn the American flag -- Americans get upset because citizens in those same nations can't burn their own From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 16 02:00:47 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 23:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Intel's back! Core chucks Netburst, gold'ole PPro updated ... Message-ID: <20060716060047.30322.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >From the looks of it, Intel's Core 2 Duo processor due to arrive later in the month (at least in Tier-1 PC systems, retail boxes will be later), is the new desktop champion. Although many will debate back and forth who is more efficient MHz for MHz -- and one can argue the ALU of AMD and Intel are "on-par" with each other at the same speed. This is clearly the result of Intel chucking the highly inefficient NetBurst architecture and going back to the original i686 design -- only with a full redesign at the processor-level. Some benchmarks are skewed however, so one needs to be careful. Most synthetic and clearly memory benchmarks are _not_ actual. Furthermore, there is still the precision issue of Intel's SSE versus AMD's leveraging its full FPU for SSE. But for the most part, the "real-world" benchmarks don't lie -- from using the ALU for desktop operations to compiles down to the overall performance for any entertainment title out there, it's very likely Intel will take the price/performance crown by month's end when the Core 2 Duo makes its general availability debut. The big difference, in Intel's favor, is that Intel is launching units with speeds up to 2.93MHz/4MB-L2, with even 2.4GHz/4MB-L2 Core 2 Duo units being very affordable against the estimated price drop of the AMD Athlon x2 of only 2.0MHz/1MB-L2. To make matters worse for AMD -- the size reduction of the core versus the P4 means more yields for the same wafer real-estate. It was easier for AMD being 12-18 months behind Intel in packaging when the P4/Netburst was easily 50% larger than the Athlon/Hammer. But now that Intel is just as "proportionally small" transistor-wise, while already being at 65nm and almost a full 18 months ahead in packaging, AMD is in even more trouble on the desktop without a redesign. But on the server front, AMD still has a clear advantage in I/O. Although a number of articles are coming out on the new Woodcrest and other LGA-771 processor with dual-FSBs -- from the I/O MMU and full x86-64 instruction set -- I/O still does not scale, especially not beyond 2 processors. AMD will have the lead for several years to come -- especially at 4+GB with the significant difference in I/O control and "safe" memory mapping. Woodcrest is going to make a nice cut into Opteron's marketshare for sub-4GB web and other Internet servers, but AMD is still hard to beat for scalable database and file services. As such, this will continue to off-set AMD worsening thin margins on the desktop versus the Core, so AMD is not going anywhere yet. But for 2GB or under desktop and server systems, Intel Core 2 Duo on the LGA-775 platform is definitely looking far more advantageous than AMD. And that's not likely to change before 2008, which is probably the earliest entry-point for any new AMD design. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795 http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/14/core2_duo_knocks_out_athlon_64/ -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Americans don't get upset because citizens in some foreign nations can burn the American flag -- Americans get upset because citizens in those same nations can't burn their own From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 16 09:32:02 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 06:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] LCD 19" DVI 8ms for $120, GeForce 6200 128MB PCI for $28 Message-ID: <20060716133202.14040.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just a couple of things ... First off, if you don't mind waiting on rebates, there is now a LCD 19" monitor with DVI and VGA, 8ms response time, standard 1280x1024 resolution, etc... for $239.95 - $120 - $20 = $119.95 after rebate: http://dealnews.com/deals/Hanns-G-HC-194-D-19-LCD-Monitor-w-DVI-for-120-after-rebate/125224.html Secondly, if you're in the market for a PCI (_not_ PCI-Express, PCIe), but ole' PCI, the GeForce 6200 (NV44) is now available for it with 128MB of RAM. Definitely a great card for older systems -- although the PCI bus will limit you severely (and thrash with other components, so don't do high framebuffer on a server). It's still nice for a 3rd and even 4th head (DVI+VGA out, with a DVI-to-VGA converter for dual-VGA, looks like S-Video out too), or just for older systems (better than the GeForce FX 5200 PCI, by far): http://dealnews.com/deals/3-D-Fuzion-Ge-Force-6200-128-MB-PCI-Video-Card-for-28/124358.html One reviewer on NewEgg.COM did mention it's far faster than his Radeon 9250 PCI. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Americans don't get upset because citizens in some foreign nations can burn the American flag -- Americans get upset because citizens in those same nations can't burn their own From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 16 13:00:36 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] nVidia drivers for 5+ year-old products: ForceWare 70 updated (1.0-7182) Message-ID: <20060716170036.52244.qmail@web32905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Okay, for all you "nay-sayers" that nVidia isn't supporting your "old video card" from 1998-2001, it's time to _eat_ your words. ;-> nVidia just released 1.0-7182 on May 26th (I guess I missed it), which is an update of the legacy ForceWare 70 driver for video cards that newer ForceWare 75+ (currently ForceWare 85) don't support ... That not only includes IA-32: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_1.0-7182.html But x86-64/IA-32e (aka AMD64/EM64T) too: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_amd64_1.0-7182.html (app-a) APPENDIX A: SUPPORTED NVIDIA GRAPHICS CHIPS ___________________________________________________ NVIDIA CHIP NAME DEVICE PCI ID RIVA TNT 0x0020 RIVA TNT2/TNT2 Pro 0x0028 RIVA TNT2 Ultra 0x0029 Vanta/Vanta LT 0x002C RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro 0x002D GeForce 6800 Ultra 0x0040 GeForce 6800 0x0041 GeForce 6800 GT 0x0045 Quadro FX 4000 0x004E Aladdin TNT2 0x00A0 GeForce 6800 0x00C1 GeForce 6800 LE 0x00C2 GeForce Go 6800 0x00C8 GeForce Go 6800 Ultra 0x00C9 Quadro FX Go1400 0x00CC Quadro FX Go1400 0x00CC Quadro FX 3450/4000 SDI 0x00CD Quadro FX 1400 0x00CE GeForce 6800/GeForce 6800 Ultra 0x00F0 GeForce 6600/GeForce 6600 GT 0x00F1 GeForce 6600 0x00F2 GeForce 6200 0x00F3 GeForce 6200 0x00F3 Quadro FX 3400 0x00F8 GeForce 6800 Ultra 0x00F9 GeForce PCX 5750 0x00FA GeForce PCX 5900 0x00FB Quadro FX 330/GeForce PCX 5300 0x00FC Quadro NVS 280 PCI-E/Quadro FX 330 0x00FD Quadro FX 1300 0x00FE GeForce PCX 4300 0x00FF GeForce 256 0x0100 GeForce DDR 0x0101 Quadro 0x0103 GeForce2 MX/MX 400 0x0110 GeForce2 MX 100/200 0x0111 GeForce2 Go 0x0112 Quadro2 MXR/EX/Go 0x0113 GeForce 6600 GT 0x0140 GeForce 6600 0x0141 GeForce Go 6600 0x0144 GeForce 6610 XL 0x0145 GeForce Go 6600 TE/6200 TE 0x0146 GeForce Go 6600 0x0148 Quadro FX 540 0x014E GeForce 6200 0x014F GeForce2 GTS/GeForce2 Pro 0x0150 GeForce2 Ti 0x0151 GeForce2 Ultra 0x0152 Quadro2 Pro 0x0153 GeForce 6200 TurboCache(TM) 0x0161 GeForce 6200SE TurboCache(TM) 0x0162 GeForce Go 6200 0x0164 GeForce Go 6250 0x0166 GeForce Go 6200 0x0167 GeForce Go 6250 0x0168 GeForce4 MX 460 0x0170 GeForce4 MX 440 0x0171 GeForce4 MX 420 0x0172 GeForce4 MX 440-SE 0x0173 GeForce4 440 Go 0x0174 GeForce4 420 Go 0x0175 GeForce4 420 Go 32M 0x0176 GeForce4 460 Go 0x0177 Quadro4 550 XGL 0x0178 GeForce4 440 Go 64M 0x0179 Quadro NVS 0x017A Quadro4 500 GoGL 0x017C GeForce4 410 Go 16M 0x017D GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X 0x0181 GeForce4 MX 440SE with AGP8X 0x0182 GeForce4 MX 420 with AGP8X 0x0183 GeForce4 MX 4000 0x0185 Quadro4 580 XGL 0x0188 Quadro NVS with AGP8X 0x018A Quadro4 380 XGL 0x018B Quadro NVS 50 PCI 0x018C GeForce2 Integrated GPU 0x01A0 GeForce4 MX Integrated GPU 0x01F0 GeForce3 0x0200 GeForce3 Ti 200 0x0201 GeForce3 Ti 500 0x0202 Quadro DCC 0x0203 GeForce 6800 0x0211 GeForce 6800 LE 0x0212 GeForce 6800 GT 0x0215 GeForce4 Ti 4600 0x0250 GeForce4 Ti 4400 0x0251 GeForce4 Ti 4200 0x0253 Quadro4 900 XGL 0x0258 Quadro4 750 XGL 0x0259 Quadro4 700 XGL 0x025B GeForce4 Ti 4800 0x0280 GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X 0x0281 GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE 0x0282 GeForce4 4200 Go 0x0286 Quadro4 980 XGL 0x0288 Quadro4 780 XGL 0x0289 Quadro4 700 GoGL 0x028C GeForce FX 5800 Ultra 0x0301 GeForce FX 5800 0x0302 Quadro FX 2000 0x0308 Quadro FX 1000 0x0309 GeForce FX 5600 Ultra 0x0311 GeForce FX 5600 0x0312 GeForce FX 5600XT 0x0314 GeForce FX Go5600 0x031A GeForce FX Go5650 0x031B Quadro FX Go700 0x031C GeForce FX 5200 0x0320 GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 0x0321 GeForce FX 5200 0x0322 GeForce FX 5200LE 0x0323 GeForce FX Go5200 0x0324 GeForce FX Go5250 0x0325 GeForce FX 5500 0x0326 GeForce FX 5100 0x0327 GeForce FX Go5200 32M/64M 0x0328 Quadro NVS 280 PCI 0x032A Quadro FX 500/FX 600 0x032B GeForce FX Go53xx 0x032C GeForce FX Go5100 0x032D GeForce FX 5900 Ultra 0x0330 GeForce FX 5900 0x0331 GeForce FX 5900XT 0x0332 GeForce FX 5950 Ultra 0x0333 GeForce FX 5900ZT 0x0334 Quadro FX 3000 0x0338 Quadro FX 700 0x033F GeForce FX 5700 Ultra 0x0341 GeForce FX 5700 0x0342 GeForce FX 5700LE 0x0343 GeForce FX 5700VE 0x0344 GeForce FX Go5700 0x0347 GeForce FX Go5700 0x0348 Quadro FX Go1000 0x034C Quadro FX 1100 0x034E -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Americans don't get upset because citizens in some foreign nations can burn the American flag -- Americans get upset because citizens in those same nations can't burn their own From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 16 13:08:59 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] HP dv2500nr: 64-bit x2, GeForce 6150, 1GB, 100GB HD, 8x DVD-DL for sub-$1K Message-ID: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Finally! The nVidia GeForce Go 6150 (NV44/C51) chipset hit just a little bit ago and now they've matched the Turion x2 ML-50 (dual-core 1.6GHz) to it. With 1GB RAM (expandable to 2GB), large 100GB 5400rpm HD and an 8x DVD-/+RW dual-layer drive, it's definitely a mobile desktop worth having. And it's available for less than $1,000 at Best Buy (SKU 7911067). The dv2000 series is Linux compatible, as virtually all NV44/C51 designs are in the stock kernel (the built-in 802.11b/g wireless is another matter though). Although there is not formal GeForce Go 6150 support in the current ForceWare 85 drivers, people are running Linux on it with those drivers. I'm going to go check it out today myself. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Americans don't get upset because citizens in some foreign nations can burn the American flag -- Americans get upset because citizens in those same nations can't burn their own From damien at mc-kenna.com Sun Jul 16 22:59:08 2006 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 22:59:08 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] PC100/PC133 memory? In-Reply-To: <20060716052654.64526.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060716052654.64526.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44BAFCFC.2000708@mc-kenna.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > For what chipset? > No idea, some Intel Celeron-compatible thingy. She has PC133 in it now so I just picked up a 128mb stick at the Flea Market. In the process I also found that there's a guy selling used Macs with tonnes of stock, which is *just* what I was looking for :) -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien at mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 17 00:23:03 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:23:03 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] LCD 19" DVI 8ms for $120, GeForce 6200 128MB PCI for $28 In-Reply-To: <20060716133202.14040.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060716133202.14040.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200607170023.03497.jasonb@edseek.com> On Sunday 16 July 2006 09:32, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Just a couple of things ... > > First off, if you don't mind waiting on rebates, there is now a LCD > 19" monitor with DVI and VGA, 8ms response time, standard 1280x1024 > resolution, etc... for $239.95 - $120 - $20 = $119.95 after rebate: > http://dealnews.com/deals/Hanns-G-HC-194-D-19-LCD-Monitor-w-DVI-for-120-aft >er-rebate/125224.html Wow, I've been putting off an LCD for ages. ~ $120 is a sweet spot, though. Are those specs any good? I know you wouldn't have mentioned it unless it had DVI, which it does. Is 8ms / 1280x1024 decent for a 19" LCD, or should the resolution be higher? I guess for $120 you can't really complain. I could use it to replace my 10 year old Gateway 17" monitor. > Secondly, if you're in the market for a PCI (_not_ PCI-Express, > PCIe), but ole' PCI, the GeForce 6200 (NV44) is now available for it > with 128MB of RAM. Definitely a great card for older systems -- > although the PCI bus will limit you severely (and thrash with other > components, so don't do high framebuffer on a server). It's still > nice for a 3rd and even 4th head (DVI+VGA out, with a DVI-to-VGA > converter for dual-VGA, looks like S-Video out too), or just for > older systems (better than the GeForce FX 5200 PCI, by far): > http://dealnews.com/deals/3-D-Fuzion-Ge-Force-6200-128-MB-PCI-Video-Card-fo >r-28/124358.html That's actually somewhat tempting, even though I have no actual use for it... ;) -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 17 00:50:58 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 00:50:58 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: HP dv2025nr (correction): 64-bit x2, GeForce 6150, 1GB, 100GB HD, 8x DVD-DL for sub-$1K In-Reply-To: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1153111858.2878.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> FYI, the model number is dv2025nr, not dv2500nr like I previous posted. On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 10:08 -0700, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Finally! The nVidia GeForce Go 6150 (NV44/C51) chipset hit just a > little bit ago and now they've matched the Turion x2 ML-50 (dual-core > 1.6GHz) to it. With 1GB RAM (expandable to 2GB), large 100GB 5400rpm > HD and an 8x DVD-/+RW dual-layer drive, it's definitely a mobile > desktop worth having. > And it's available for less than $1,000 at Best Buy (SKU 7911067). I was pricing various Intel Core Duo notebooks that were easily within $200, sometimes with a little more disk and memory. Unfortunately, they are i9xx series chipsets, and not anywhere near the same 3D performance -- let alone questionable Linux support (Intel always seems to lag as of late, especially on key items). I've purposely avoided the ATI Xpress 200M and similar notebook chipset because of various Linux compatibility issues. But the GeForce Go 6150 seems to be the same C51 logic, and does work with the existing NV44 drivers (even MIT licensed X). I'm probably going to buy one this week to confirm, although I'm still toying with the idea of holding back just a bit longer. Yes, TheBS doesn't spend money much -- despite what most think. I'm still running on a 18 month-old Athlon 64 3200+ I paid $150 for and my Toshiba M35X notebook cost me a whole $499 and has had a broken backspace key for almost a year now. As I said, the only thing I'm guilty of is spending $300/year on a new video card. -- Bryan P.S. I'm so stingy that I'm considering just buying a new S939 mainboard and Athlon X2 3800+ or 4200+, using my existing 2GB of DDR PC3200 memory, and just adding a $225 (after rebate) GeForce 7900GT. My wife would get my existing S939 with Athlon 3200+ and GeForce 7800GTX -- she's also got 2GB of DDR PC3200 memory. No new hard drives or anything or any other goodies. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 17 09:36:46 2006 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Patrick) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 08:36:46 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] PC100/PC133 memory? In-Reply-To: <44BAFCFC.2000708@mc-kenna.com> References: <20060716052654.64526.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44BAFCFC.2000708@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <44BB926E.3020100@cfl.rr.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > Bryan J. Smith wrote: > >> For what chipset? >> > > No idea, some Intel Celeron-compatible thingy. She has PC133 in it > now so I just picked up a 128mb stick at the Flea Market. In the > process I also found that there's a guy selling used Macs with tonnes > of stock, which is *just* what I was looking for :) > What Flea Market?????? Used MACs???? What models??? From justinkz at gmail.com Mon Jul 17 10:26:22 2006 From: justinkz at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:26:22 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] LCD 19" DVI 8ms for $120, GeForce 6200 128MB PCI for $28 In-Reply-To: <200607170023.03497.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <20060716133202.14040.qmail@web32907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200607170023.03497.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <53b562310607170726i5c82ada7v88a6d7612ef78b73@mail.gmail.com> On 7/17/06, Jason Boxman wrote: > On Sunday 16 July 2006 09:32, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > Just a couple of things ... > > > > First off, if you don't mind waiting on rebates, there is now a LCD > > 19" monitor with DVI and VGA, 8ms response time, standard 1280x1024 > > resolution, etc... for $239.95 - $120 - $20 = $119.95 after rebate: > > http://dealnews.com/deals/Hanns-G-HC-194-D-19-LCD-Monitor-w-DVI-for-120-aft > >er-rebate/125224.html > > Wow, I've been putting off an LCD for ages. ~ $120 is a sweet spot, though. > > Are those specs any good? I know you wouldn't have mentioned it unless it had > DVI, which it does. Is 8ms / 1280x1024 decent for a 19" LCD, or should the > resolution be higher? I guess for $120 you can't really complain. I could > use it to replace my 10 year old Gateway 17" monitor. dude... do yourself a favor... -- Justin M. Keyes From damien at mc-kenna.com Mon Jul 17 10:54:39 2006 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:54:39 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] PC100/PC133 memory? In-Reply-To: <44BB926E.3020100@cfl.rr.com> References: <20060716052654.64526.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44BAFCFC.2000708@mc-kenna.com> <44BB926E.3020100@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <44BBA4AF.5030600@mc-kenna.com> Patrick wrote: >> She has PC133 in it now so I just picked up a 128mb stick at the Flea >> Market. In the process I also found that there's a guy selling used >> Macs with tonnes of stock, which is *just* what I was looking for :) > What Flea Market?????? Used MACs???? What models??? Sanford's FleaWorld. They have tonnes of older G3 and G4 iMacs and PowerMacs. They're in row W and called Mr. Macintosh. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien at mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From whittake at sbaflorida.com Mon Jul 17 10:58:33 2006 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:58:33 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: HP dv2025nr (correction): 64-bit x2, GeForce 6150, 1GB, 100GB HD, 8x DVD-DL for sub-$1K In-Reply-To: <1153111858.2878.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153111858.2878.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153148314.31791.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 00:50 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > FYI, the model number is dv2025nr, not dv2500nr like I previous posted. > > On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 10:08 -0700, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > Finally! The nVidia GeForce Go 6150 (NV44/C51) chipset hit just a > > little bit ago and now they've matched the Turion x2 ML-50 (dual-core > > 1.6GHz) to it. With 1GB RAM (expandable to 2GB), large 100GB 5400rpm > > HD and an 8x DVD-/+RW dual-layer drive, it's definitely a mobile > > desktop worth having. > > And it's available for less than $1,000 at Best Buy (SKU 7911067). > Bryan: You said that you were going to Best Buy and check this out! What was the result? Is it worth buying? Homer From bigjohn at midwest.net Mon Jul 17 16:35:48 2006 From: bigjohn at midwest.net (JohnH) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:35:48 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] Turning off mouse over popups????? Message-ID: <0f1701c6a9e0$9b660240$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> My VistaPrint Electronic Business CardEvery time my mouse goes over an icon a box pops up that shows the description, contents, and/or size of the "thing" the icon represents. How can I get rid of this annoying feature? I also am trying to remmber the email address to which this list is subscribed. Two times now I have been "Moderated" because I forgot!!!!!!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060717/55c378a5/attachment.html From bigjohn at midwest.net Mon Jul 17 16:43:11 2006 From: bigjohn at midwest.net (JohnH) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:43:11 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] OT ??? Content Managment Message-ID: <002d01c6a9e1$a0e9f220$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> My VistaPrint Electronic Business CardI update 3 different websites and one of them has asked if they could edit certain portions of the site themselves. They would have several people to do the updates but not necessarily at the same time or from the same location. Is there a free content manager I could use to experiment with just to see how this would work? I have never used such a program, I use DreamWeaver, CoffeeCup HTML editor, and an old version of TrellixWeb (now CuteSiteBuilder). Any suggestion's -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060717/ddad7fa8/attachment.html From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Mon Jul 17 22:06:16 2006 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:06:16 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] OT ??? Content Managment In-Reply-To: <002d01c6a9e1$a0e9f220$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> References: <002d01c6a9e1$a0e9f220$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> Message-ID: <44BC4218.8040906@thelimucompany.com> JohnH wrote: > I update 3 different websites and one of them has asked if they could > edit certain portions of the site themselves. A fairly common request. > They would have several people to do the updates but not necessarily > at the same time or from the same location. > Is there a free content manager I could use to experiment with just to > see how this would work? There are *loads* depending on the requirements. > I have never used such a program, I use DreamWeaver, CoffeeCup HTML > editor, and an old version of TrellixWeb (now CuteSiteBuilder). There are three main approaches to this: 1. Shoehorn something simple with server side includes and giving them a simple HTML editor. Using either SSI (files ending in .shtml) or apache .htaccess configuration files, link in a header and footer on each page, leaving each actual page to only have the relevant content. You'd be basically getting them to do most of the work with this option and it could cause problems with then make mistakes (and they will). If there's someone technically competent on-side I suggest making them responsible for file uploading and content verification before uploading. Also, I suggest either using Subversion to keep a record of all code changes or do daily/weekly backups of the website so when they screw up the site you can refer back to what it should be. 2. Use an off-the-shelf system. There are *tonnes* of these available depending on your needs. It sounds like you don't need anything too sophisticated so you might consider something like a Wiki that lets you password-protect the page editor and customize the layout so you can hide all of the usual Wiki stuff you don't need. This can range from simple to extremely complicated to do, depending on what you decide on. I suggest starting with http://www.opensourcecms.com/ which gives lots of info on different options. One thing to consider is what the web hosting service has available for you to use - PHP, ASP, JSP, Ruby on Rails, MySQL, SQL Server, etc, etc, this will have a bearing on what you decide. 3. Work out exactly what they need and roll your own. You'll have to learn a language (Ruby on Rails and ColdFusion are both good ones for beginners) then write it yourself. Lots of beginners books for these technologies have step-by-step guides on doing a basic CMS so you could browse the book shelves at your favorite book store in the Web Development section to see if any are included. One good thing with this is that you'll learn how to customize & modify the system in the process, rather than being stuck at a beginner's level trying to understand this complex, massive beast of a product. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Mon Jul 17 22:06:30 2006 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:06:30 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Turning off mouse over popups????? In-Reply-To: <0f1701c6a9e0$9b660240$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> References: <0f1701c6a9e0$9b660240$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> Message-ID: <44BC4226.3080409@thelimucompany.com> JohnH wrote: > Every time my mouse goes over an icon a box pops up that shows the > description, contents, and/or size of the "thing" the icon represents. What OS? If its Windows you could search on something like http://www.tweakxp.com. Damien From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 17 23:24:14 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:24:14 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: HP dv2025nr (correction) -- HP 2000 and 5000 series options with dual-core In-Reply-To: <44BBA2F6.5030605@matt-land.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153111858.2878.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44BBA2F6.5030605@matt-land.com> Message-ID: <1153193054.3562.10.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 09:47 -0500, Matthew A. Nicholson wrote: > Sweet. This is just the sort of thing I have been looking for. A 14 > inch widescreen lappy with a half decent graphics card (and a 64-bit > processor). My current laptop is 15.4 inch and sometimes I want > something a little smaller. I couldn't justify buying this until I got > a dual core processor in my desktop though... > It's amazing how good laptop prices are getting. My 15.4 inch Asus > Z92KM (AMD Turion 1.8 ghz, 80GB 5400, 512 MB) cost like $1,150, dispite > it not having windows pre-installed. Actually, HP's on-line customizer gives almost the exact same price after $100 instant and $50 mail-in rebate. So if I'm going to order, I'm just going to go with HP directly -- even though it's a little wait (7-8 days). I was playing not only with the dv2025nr with integrated GeForce Go 6150, but a slightly larger 5000-series with Intel Core Duo and the 128MB dedicated VRAM GeForce Go 7400 (an added option instead of the Intel 950) for about $100 more. The GeForce Go 7400 is about 2-3x faster than the GeForce Go 6150, while being 5-10x faster than than the Intel 950 (especially at OpenGL apps). Intel just has some external display quirks on their 8xx/9xx series that have required various hacks (I've personally ran into that too much on various notebooks), whereas GeForce Go's have been stellar with the nVidia nv/GLX drivers (and even stock MIT-licensed X 2D drivers thanx to nVidia's direct support). But the dv2000 series is definitely slicker. You can't fit in a video chip with dedicated VRAM. So I'm not sure I want to go to the 5000 series. Maybe they'll have a GeForce Go 7200 with shared RAM soon? -- Bryan P.S. BTW, another thing I liked about the 5000-series was the option for an Intel 802.11a/b/g for $30 or so more that had Linux support. The WLAN support is the one thing holding me back from the dv2025nr. Especially since nothing has CardBus/PCCard anymore, in favor of CardExpress, so I can't even use my existing Prism2 CardBus cards. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 18 00:33:09 2006 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Patrick) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:33:09 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] Turning off mouse over popups????? In-Reply-To: <44BC4226.3080409@thelimucompany.com> References: <0f1701c6a9e0$9b660240$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> <44BC4226.3080409@thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <44BC6485.6000104@cfl.rr.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > JohnH wrote: > >> Every time my mouse goes over an icon a box pops up that shows the >> description, contents, and/or size of the "thing" the icon represents. > > > What OS? If its Windows you could search on something like > http://www.tweakxp.com. > > Damien > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support at matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support > In Linux, in KDE, you right click on the desktop in any free area, and go to 'desktop configuration'... From bigjohn at midwest.net Mon Jul 17 23:36:38 2006 From: bigjohn at midwest.net (JohnH) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:36:38 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] Turning off mouse over popups????? References: <0f1701c6a9e0$9b660240$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> <44BC4226.3080409@thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <009d01c6aa1b$60f47430$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> Windows XP. When I try to click on an icon or file to open it a white box pops up an then I can't see what I am doing. It's EXTREMELY annoying. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien McKenna" To: "This is the PC Support list." Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [Pc_Support] Turning off mouse over popups????? > JohnH wrote: >> Every time my mouse goes over an icon a box pops up that shows the >> description, contents, and/or size of the "thing" the icon represents. > > What OS? If its Windows you could search on something like > http://www.tweakxp.com. > > Damien > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support at matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/385 - Release Date: 7/11/2006 > > From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 18 00:08:40 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 00:08:40 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: HP dv2025nr (correction): 64-bit x2, GeForce 6150, 1GB, 100GB HD, 8x DVD-DL for sub-$1K In-Reply-To: <1153148314.31791.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153111858.2878.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153148314.31791.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1153195720.3562.48.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 10:58 -0400, Homer Whittaker wrote: > Bryan: You said that you were going to Best Buy and check this out! > What was the result? Is it worth buying? The design is slick. Definitely love the 14" widescreen, 5.3lbs. form-factor. Not quite as much as a 12", but almost. The NV44/C51 (GeForce Go 6150 / nForce 430) design is very Linux compatible, as is being reported by many on the entire dv2000 series. That's why I'm very interested. But as I mentioned in my other e-mail, I think I'm going to buy from HP.com instead, and change a few items. However, I'm also debating getting a slightly older HP 5000 series design using the Intel Core Duo and adding the GeForce Go 7400. I don't trust the i8xx/9xx graphics with Linux -- not only for 3D performance but for external video out (there are various, well-documented quirks in various GPUs -- including its 950). But the dedicated 128MB VRAM GeForce Go 7400, even though it kills battery, is 2-3x faster (5-10x faster than the Intel 950). I can also add a Linux compatible 802.11a/b/g for $30 or so. I'm still debating. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From ae4ko at amsat.org Tue Jul 18 08:41:34 2006 From: ae4ko at amsat.org (Aaron Morrison) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:41:34 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Turning off mouse over popups????? In-Reply-To: <009d01c6aa1b$60f47430$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> References: <0f1701c6a9e0$9b660240$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> <44BC4226.3080409@thelimucompany.com> <009d01c6aa1b$60f47430$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> Message-ID: <19B79254-418D-4DB6-842F-0B351E69AA3D@amsat.org> TweakUI (part of the Microsoft PowerToys stuff) has some options to control tooltips. That might help. --am On 17 Jul 2006, at 23:36, JohnH wrote: > Windows XP. > When I try to click on an icon or file to open it a white box pops > up an then I can't see what I am doing. > It's EXTREMELY annoying. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Damien McKenna" > > To: "This is the PC Support list." > Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:06 PM > Subject: Re: [Pc_Support] Turning off mouse over popups????? > > >> JohnH wrote: >>> Every time my mouse goes over an icon a box pops up that shows >>> the description, contents, and/or size of the "thing" the icon >>> represents. >> >> What OS? If its Windows you could search on something like http:// >> www.tweakxp.com. >> >> Damien >> _______________________________________________ >> Pc_support mailing list >> Pc_support at matrixlist.com >> http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/385 - Release Date: >> 7/11/2006 >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support at matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From dave at dgnal.net Tue Jul 18 16:48:23 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:48:23 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] AM2 Based motherboards, Overclocking & Linux Message-ID: <35256.192.104.67.222.1153255703.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Have been reading alot of reviews of AM2 motherboards...in anticipation of the AMD X2 'fire sale' coming up next week: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2800 http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20060612A1001.html?www.dailytech.com ...and I'm interested in the 'overclocking' aspects of the reviews. Has overclocking become mainstream and a 'suggested' way to run a computer? I've liked the idea, but have always shyed away just from a stability point. From many of the reviews - it seems almost 'expected' that you would be overclocking your CPU and Memory. Is this true? I can see a bit more from a 'tuning' aspect with today's DDR2 RAM...that a 'sweet-spot' needs to be found based on the variety of memory controllers, mother-board implementations, not much standards on the higher end, the alignment of the moon & stars...etc, etc, etc....but is this really considered 'overclocking' for the ram? Any problems/issues with running one of these boards (AM2) with an AMD X2 (socketed for AM2) - with a SuSE 64bit OS (host) with VMware for 'other' OS'? thanks for any insight - dave From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 18 22:01:43 2006 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Patrick) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:01:43 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] AM2 Based motherboards, Overclocking & Linux In-Reply-To: <35256.192.104.67.222.1153255703.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <35256.192.104.67.222.1153255703.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <44BD9287.8090204@cfl.rr.com> David Simmons wrote: >Have been reading alot of reviews of AM2 motherboards...in anticipation of >the AMD X2 'fire sale' coming up next week: > >http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2800 >http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20060612A1001.html?www.dailytech.com > >...and I'm interested in the 'overclocking' aspects of the reviews. > >Has overclocking become mainstream and a 'suggested' way to run a >computer? I've liked the idea, but have always shyed away just from a >stability point. From many of the reviews - it seems almost 'expected' >that you would be overclocking your CPU and Memory. Is this true? > >I can see a bit more from a 'tuning' aspect with today's DDR2 RAM...that a >'sweet-spot' needs to be found based on the variety of memory controllers, >mother-board implementations, not much standards on the higher end, the >alignment of the moon & stars...etc, etc, etc....but is this really >considered 'overclocking' for the ram? > >Any problems/issues with running one of these boards (AM2) with an AMD X2 >(socketed for AM2) - with a SuSE 64bit OS (host) with VMware for 'other' >OS'? > >thanks for any insight - dave > >_______________________________________________ >Pc_support mailing list >Pc_support at matrixlist.com >http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support > > > The real problem with overclocking is that the PCI buss gets over clocked, also. Many peripheral device cards just can't take it. What do you want to accomplish that can't be done with the available hardware on the market? for stability and longevity, I don't clock my stuff (though, I have, in the past), because of issues with cooling, noise, and, eventually, instant reboots, when least expected, and unwanted! And, now, I am very much encouraged, with the availablility of great hardware at low prices, to cluster two or more systems! Check out the distros for clusters, over at http://livecdlist.com in a search for your hardware type. From tec at speakeasy.net Wed Jul 19 00:22:59 2006 From: tec at speakeasy.net (Thomas) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:22:59 -0700 Subject: [Pc_Support] OT ??? Content Managment In-Reply-To: <002d01c6a9e1$a0e9f220$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> References: <002d01c6a9e1$a0e9f220$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> Message-ID: <1153282979.2743.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> John, I like Drupal and Joomla. Drupal seems to have a whole bunch of forward momentum. It does take a bit of time to get use to using a cms system though. Cheers, Thomas On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 15:43 -0500, JohnH wrote: > I update 3 different websites and one of them has asked if they could > edit certain portions of the site themselves. > > They would have several people to do the updates but not necessarily > at the same time or from the same location. > > Is there a free content manager I could use to experiment with just to > see how this would work? > > I have never used such a program, I use DreamWeaver, CoffeeCup HTML > editor, and an old version of TrellixWeb (now CuteSiteBuilder). > > Any suggestion's > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support at matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From dave at dgnal.net Wed Jul 19 01:03:27 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:03:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] OT ??? Content Managment In-Reply-To: <1153282979.2743.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <002d01c6a9e1$a0e9f220$6401a8c0@3a5ah6vqcd> <1153282979.2743.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1990.71.252.176.10.1153285407.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> >> I update 3 different websites and one of them has asked if they could >> edit certain portions of the site themselves. >> They would have several people to do the updates but not necessarily >> at the same time or from the same location. ok...that's the job of a CMS (Content Management System) >> I have never used such a program, I use DreamWeaver, CoffeeCup HTML >> editor, and an old version of TrellixWeb (now CuteSiteBuilder). those create 'static' sites....a CMS is created dynamically (everytime) through database calls based on the level of authentication of the user/viewer. There's a couple GREAT sites to give info and try each site/system out: http://www.opensourcecms.com/ http://cmsmatrix.org/ > I like Drupal and Joomla. I'm a Xoops guy...but have been diggin Joomla lately (the backend system is GREAT and has lots of professional eye-candy)...but use CMSMatrix.org to choose the components/parts you want/need. hope that helps - dave From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 19 01:00:07 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 01:00:07 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AM2 Based motherboards, Overclocking & Linux In-Reply-To: <44BD9287.8090204@cfl.rr.com> References: <35256.192.104.67.222.1153255703.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <44BD9287.8090204@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1153285207.2952.4.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2006-07-18 at 21:01 -0500, Patrick wrote: > The real problem with overclocking is that the PCI buss gets over > clocked, also. Many peripheral device cards just can't take it. Actually, this is _not_ the case on the A64/Opteron. The memory and I/O interconnects are _separate_ and no sychronized timing is necessary without any performance hit. In reality, overclocking _maybe_ nets you another 5-15%, maybe 20% in a rare model. It was worth it when 33-50% was possible as we weren't pushing 20+W through them. But today, not only will you eventually cause your processor to stop working at some point, but you'll often start getting more and more errors before then. Same deal with GPUs, you'll get an increased number of "artifacts" until the GPU eventually just dies. It's only useful if you upgrade every 3-6 months and honestly don't care, or are happy if your CPU/GPUs last 12 months. Me? I recycle _all_ my old components to family or LUG members, so I don't like to pass on "overclocked" components that won't clearly operate as well. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From thomas at tecsplace.com Wed Jul 19 01:14:11 2006 From: thomas at tecsplace.com (Thomas Carlson) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:14:11 -0700 Subject: [Pc_Support] HP dv2500nr: 64-bit x2, GeForce 6150, 1GB, 100GB HD, 8x DVD-DL for sub-$1K In-Reply-To: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1153286051.2743.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've been running Dapper Drake with the compiz stuff on a DV1000 from HP with good results(1.8ghz, 2gb ram, dvd dl lightscribe, around 5lbs. and 100gb drive. It's an older model(now close to more than 6 months old) that's already been replaced, but it sure blows away the PIII Fujitsu I replaced. :) The 14.1 brightview screen is really nice and it uses the 9X video chipset that is good enough for me. Tuxracer/Tuxrunner is pretty smooth. Battery life is ok at around 4.5 to 5 hours if I don't use the cd or hard drive too much. Cheers, Thomas On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 10:08 -0700, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Finally! The nVidia GeForce Go 6150 (NV44/C51) chipset hit just a > little bit ago and now they've matched the Turion x2 ML-50 (dual-core > 1.6GHz) to it. With 1GB RAM (expandable to 2GB), large 100GB 5400rpm > HD and an 8x DVD-/+RW dual-layer drive, it's definitely a mobile > desktop worth having. > > And it's available for less than $1,000 at Best Buy (SKU 7911067). > > The dv2000 series is Linux compatible, as virtually all NV44/C51 > designs are in the stock kernel (the built-in 802.11b/g wireless is > another matter though). Although there is not formal GeForce Go 6150 > support in the current ForceWare 85 drivers, people are running Linux > on it with those drivers. > > I'm going to go check it out today myself. > From tec at speakeasy.net Wed Jul 19 01:20:53 2006 From: tec at speakeasy.net (Thomas) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:20:53 -0700 Subject: [Pc_Support] PC100/PC133 memory? In-Reply-To: <44BBA4AF.5030600@mc-kenna.com> References: <20060716052654.64526.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44BAFCFC.2000708@mc-kenna.com> <44BB926E.3020100@cfl.rr.com> <44BBA4AF.5030600@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1153286453.2743.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Were there any dual cpu g4 boxes? ebay has quite a few listings for single cpu g4 400s that sell for no more than 100 bucks. Shipping is extra though. On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 10:54 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Patrick wrote: > >> She has PC133 in it now so I just picked up a 128mb stick at the Flea > >> Market. In the process I also found that there's a guy selling used > >> Macs with tonnes of stock, which is *just* what I was looking for :) > > What Flea Market?????? Used MACs???? What models??? > > Sanford's FleaWorld. They have tonnes of older G3 and G4 iMacs and > PowerMacs. They're in row W and called Mr. Macintosh. > From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 19 09:06:07 2006 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:06:07 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] PC100/PC133 memory? In-Reply-To: <1153286453.2743.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20060716052654.64526.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44BAFCFC.2000708@mc-kenna.com> <44BB926E.3020100@cfl.rr.com> <44BBA4AF.5030600@mc-kenna.com> <1153286453.2743.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1A686AD2-832C-460F-AE1D-0E489915CE8F@thelimucompany.com> On Jul 19, 2006, at 1:20 AM, Thomas wrote: > Were there any dual cpu g4 boxes? I didn't look at them much, just swing by this weekend and see. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - dmckenna at thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060719/0ea8dd3d/attachment.html From readg at nfl.jaguars.com Wed Jul 19 15:41:20 2006 From: readg at nfl.jaguars.com (Read, Greg) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:41:20 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AGP 4X/8X Message-ID: I have an old system, Athlon 1700XP and it has an AGP 4X slot; I'm currently using a NVidia GeForce 3 Ti200 in it. I bough a new LCD monitor that has a DVI input and I wanted to get a cheap NVidia graphics card that has DVI. I found one on Buy.com, XFX GeForce 6200 128MB DDR AGP Video Card ( DVI TV-Out VGA ) - PVT44ARA it's $28 after rebate. The catch is, it says it's AGP 8X, can I use it in my 4X slot? I've seen similar eVGA cards on Newegg that say they are AGP4X/8X, should I go with one of those? Thanks, Greg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060719/71b383dc/attachment.html From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 19 16:31:09 2006 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:31:09 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AGP 4X/8X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9788B38F-3930-4807-9B4C-1F764E88C2C6@thelimucompany.com> On Jul 19, 2006, at 3:41 PM, Read, Greg wrote: > The catch is, it says it's AGP 8X, can I use it in my 4X slot? AFAIK this comes down to differences in supported voltages. What you ought to do is look up the card and your motherboard to see what they both support, if they're both willing to talk the same talk then give it a spin, worst case you should be able to flog it on Craigslist and get your money back. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - dmckenna at thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 19 18:49:14 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:49:14 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AGP 4X/8X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200607191849.15036.jasonb@edseek.com> On Wednesday 19 July 2006 15:41, Read, Greg wrote: > I have an old system, Athlon 1700XP and it has an AGP 4X slot; I'm > currently using a NVidia GeForce 3 Ti200 in it. > > I bough a new LCD monitor that has a DVI input and I wanted to get a > cheap NVidia graphics card that has DVI. > > I found one on Buy.com, XFX GeForce 6200 128MB DDR AGP Video Card ( DVI > TV-Out VGA ) - PVT44ARA > it's $28 after rebate. > The catch is, it says it's AGP 8X, can I use it in my 4X slot? Given my experiences with XFX, I'd say no. http://edseek.com/archives/2005/08/16/xfx-video-cards-6600gt-dont-waste-your-money/ -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 19 23:38:48 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:38:48 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AGP 4X/8X In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1153366728.2955.11.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 15:41 -0400, Read, Greg wrote: > I have an old system, Athlon 1700XP and it has an AGP 4X slot; I'm > currently using a NVidia GeForce 3 Ti200 in it. > I bough a new LCD monitor that has a DVI input and I wanted to get a > cheap NVidia graphics card that has DVI. > I found one on Buy.com, XFX GeForce 6200 128MB DDR AGP Video Card > ( DVI TV-Out VGA ) - PVT44ARA it's $28 after rebate. > The catch is, it says it's AGP 8X, can I use it in my 4X slot? The NV44 (GeForce 6200) kicks about all pre-NV40 ass -- including the non-TurboCache (which includes AGP) being 4-6x faster than a NV34 (GeForce FX5200/5500): http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2006/02/geforce-6-and-7-series-variants-nuts.html > I've seen similar eVGA cards on Newegg that say they are AGP4X/8X, > should I go with one of those? Depends. On my blog, I listed the AGP 1.0 (1x/2x), 2.0 (2x/4x) and 3.0 (4x/8x) voltages: http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/11/agp-agp-pro-pci-and-pci-x-voltage.html Many newer AGP 3.0, 0.8V cards are _not_ always 1.5V tolerant. As such, they do _not_ often work in AGP 2.0 slots that can only do 1.5V (and are possibly 3.3V tolerant). This has been a major issue with compatibility. To make matters worse, if you buy the card and put it in the slot, you _could_ blow it and/or the slot. Typically the problem is when your older card uses a higher voltage than the newer slot of lower voltage, and a newer card with lower voltage won't blow the older slow of higher voltage. But you never know. And the mainboard as well as the cards do a _poor_ job of telling you. I don't know if nVidia did a good job with the NV44 (6200) and 1.5V tolerance -- let alone if vendors are honoring them. But I can tell you that did _not_ do a good job with the NV43 (6600) when it came to 1.5V tolerance. They typically _only_ work in AGP 3.0 (4x/8x) slots and _not_ older AGP 2.0 (2x/4x) slots. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 19 23:52:54 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:52:54 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Don't buy that LGA-775 mainboard just yet! Message-ID: <1153367574.2955.27.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> AnandTech has the skinny on how _incompatible_ the current LGA-775 mainboards are with the new Core 2 processors, as well as various commentary on stability issues in his Part I article: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797 In other words, wait for at least mid-August -- when the processors are available in retail -- to buy mainboards. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 20 00:11:53 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:11:53 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] The Frugal BS ... I'm not going to go Socket-AM2 or LGA-775 ... Message-ID: <1153368713.2955.47.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> I've been holding off on upgrading my system since turn of the year. First it was 1 month, then 2 ... now it's been a good 6 months. I keep holding off. I was going to go Socket-AM2 -- get a new x2 AM2 processor, 4GB of DDR2-800/PC2-6400 memory with at least 4-10-10-10 or similar timings and maybe a 7900GT (which are $225 after rebate now) or whatever video card was the best performance for under $250. My wife would get the old one with the 3200+ plus the 7800GTX which still isn't something to sneeze at, 4GB of memory (combining our separate sets of 2GB of DDR into one, even if it meant they could only run at DDR333/PC2700 for JEDEC compliance) as well as my 7800GTX. I was also considering Core 2 Duo instead of Athlon 64 x2 AM2 too -- which also takes DDR2. Well, 2 nights ago, that changed. You see, I found that Foxconn has released a BIOS update for my 20 month old nForce4 [standard] mainboard -- even though it's been discontinued for over a year (not long after it came out, they came out with an improved model) -- in February 2006. It added support for x2 models, even though they don't advertise it on the model's page. But looking under the CPU support for the exact mainboard, it's there -- virtually all models. The one thing that doesn't work in the new BIOS on this older mainboard is the newer K8-PowerNow support for x2. Not really something I care about anyway -- but probably why they don't advertise x2 support on it. So now I'm just going to upgrade my CPU to an x2 for $150-175 or so when AMD reduces prices next week. I'm going to stick with my current mainboard and video card until newer products come around in the fall or winter. My wife's not sneezing at her current 6800GT AGP either, which still competes well with the 7600GT (higher clock, but only 128-bit wide memory) that runs $150+. So it won't be for at least another 3+ months, maybe 6+ (2007), that I might upgrade the video card and mainboard for $400 or so, giving my wife the 3200+ and 7800GTX. I'm just going to stick with the 4GB (2GB in each) investments I've made in DDR400 timed at 2.5-3-3-6 (which is not value) and stay with Socket-939 until sometime in 2007. At the most, I might give my wife the 3200+ now, and buy a cheap, $35 or so MicroATX nForce3 mainboard with AGP, so she can use it with the 6800GT (which is 2 years old now, but still quite capable -- 16/6 pixel/vertex with 256-bit wide of 256MB GDDR3 memory). But that's it. She's currently running an Athlon XP2600+ and runs in XP Home the most, so dual-core, 64-bit and 4GB isn't going to buy her anything when Home is only single-core (except for the new OEM releases for x2/Duo), 32-bit and only supports 2GB (it doesn't even offer the 3GB memory model that Pro does IIRC). Yes, I've just been that frugal as of late. I haven't upgraded my system for almost 18 months now, and some of its components are much older. Except, of course, the 2GB memory, 7800GTX video card and (overkill) 500W power-supply about a year ago. Other than the video card (but even then, I got my 7800GTX for around $400 after rebate almost a year ago), I really wait and buy when the price is right. Like my 320GB SATA drives that are only maybe $20 cheaper today than they were when I bought them over 15 months ago, $160+ DDR400/2.5-3-3-6 that is still no cheaper a year later (in fact, I got it for sub-$150 on-sale), etc... -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From bigjohn1a at hotmail.com Mon Jul 17 16:04:30 2006 From: bigjohn1a at hotmail.com (JohnH) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:04:30 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] Turning of mouse over popups????? Message-ID: My VistaPrint Electronic Business CardEvery time my mouse goes over an icon a box pops up that shows the description, contents, and/or size of the "thing" the icon represents. How can I get rid of this annoying feature? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060717/9976f73e/attachment.html From readg at nfl.jaguars.com Thu Jul 20 15:13:42 2006 From: readg at nfl.jaguars.com (Read, Greg) Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:13:42 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AGP 4X/8X Message-ID: Thanks everyone, I can't find the voltage to the AGP slot listed anywhere, nor can I find the voltage to the card listed on XFX's site. Jason's experience with XFX is strike two. I'll wait until I upgrade the MB. > -----Original Message----- > From: pc_support-bounces at matrixlist.com > [mailto:pc_support-bounces at matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Bryan J. Smith > Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 11:39 PM > To: This is the PC Support list. > Subject: Re: [Pc_Support] AGP 4X/8X > > On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 15:41 -0400, Read, Greg wrote: > > I have an old system, Athlon 1700XP and it has an AGP 4X slot; I'm > > currently using a NVidia GeForce 3 Ti200 in it. > > I bough a new LCD monitor that has a DVI input and I wanted > to get a > > cheap NVidia graphics card that has DVI. > > I found one on Buy.com, XFX GeForce 6200 128MB DDR AGP Video Card ( > > DVI TV-Out VGA ) - PVT44ARA it's $28 after rebate. > > The catch is, it says it's AGP 8X, can I use it in my 4X slot? > > The NV44 (GeForce 6200) kicks about all pre-NV40 ass -- > including the non-TurboCache (which includes AGP) being 4-6x > faster than a NV34 (GeForce FX5200/5500): > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2006/02/geforce-6-and-7-series-va > riants-nuts.html > > > I've seen similar eVGA cards on Newegg that say they are AGP4X/8X, > > should I go with one of those? > > Depends. On my blog, I listed the AGP 1.0 (1x/2x), 2.0 > (2x/4x) and 3.0 > (4x/8x) voltages: > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/11/agp-agp-pro-pci-and-pci-x > -voltage.html > > Many newer AGP 3.0, 0.8V cards are _not_ always 1.5V > tolerant. As such, they do _not_ often work in AGP 2.0 slots > that can only do 1.5V (and are possibly 3.3V tolerant). This > has been a major issue with compatibility. > > To make matters worse, if you buy the card and put it in the > slot, you _could_ blow it and/or the slot. Typically the > problem is when your older card uses a higher voltage than > the newer slot of lower voltage, and a newer card with lower > voltage won't blow the older slow of higher voltage. > > But you never know. And the mainboard as well as the cards > do a _poor_ job of telling you. > > I don't know if nVidia did a good job with the NV44 (6200) > and 1.5V tolerance -- let alone if vendors are honoring them. > But I can tell you that did _not_ do a good job with the > NV43 (6600) when it came to 1.5V tolerance. They typically > _only_ work in AGP 3.0 (4x/8x) slots and _not_ older AGP 2.0 > (2x/4x) slots. > > > > -- > Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance > mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com > --------------------------------------------------------- > The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people > seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves > with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that > has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. > > > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support at matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support > From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 11:03:09 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:03:09 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's L1 cache -- WAS: HP dv2500nr In-Reply-To: <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> Message-ID: <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Fri, 2006-07-21 at 10:41 -0400, Kyle Gonzales wrote: > I will not buy a Turion X2 chip. 256k L2 per core? First off, since when does L2 cache have _anything_ to do with performance? If that was the case, then Intel's 2-4MB L2 cache on the P4 processors should have been be smacking the A64 silly! Secondly, people _forget_ that AMD processors have *4*TIMES* the L1 cache of Intel processors! L1 is far, far more of a consideration -- especially in how AMD's non-exclusive cache design works compared to Intel's exclusive cache design. I.e., In an Intel processor, it _must_ load data into L1 cache before the registers. In an AMD processor, it can _directly_ load from L2 cache into registers. With a _small_ L1 cache, the Intel really hurts from this. People forget about AMD's L1 cache _advantage_. It's a major reason why AMD is able to "keep up" with Intel's fabrication lead. In fact, Intel often has to "waste transistors" in adding more L2 to "make up" for its small L1. > Blah, its already testing out poorly. No, not "poorly." AMD HyperTransport (A64/T64) processors do _smack_ Intel NetBurst (P4) processors silly. > I'll wait for the Core 2 Duo for the laptop. Now Core 2 Duo _is_ different. Intel has finally _chucked_ > My wife has a Turion chip in her laptop, and it runs well. However, the > cache (or lack thereof) on the Turion X2 is a dealbreaker for me. Huh? Why does the L2 cache matter? For _me_, the L1 cache size in Intel's processors and the requirement that _all_ L2 go through that _tiny_ L1 is the "deal breaker." ;-> Seriously now, buying something for L2 cache size is like saying you're not going to buy a car with a smaller gas tank. Yeah, it can't feed the engine and go as far without stopping for gas than a car with a bigger gas tank. But the L2 cache has _nothing_ to do with the L1 cache like the gas tank has _nothing_ to do with the displacement of the engine. Seriously! Yeah, my car with a smaller gas tank will "stall" before the larger one unless I get gas -- but with 4x the engine displacement like L1 cache, I _could_ be much farther down the road when I do stop! ;-> Com'mon Kyle! You've been listening to marketing. ;-> Buy a Core 2 Duo because of the _performance_. The L2 cache has _nothing_ to do with that. There's no more proof in that than the massive and often _useless_ L2 cache sizes of the Netburst (P4) architecture. You could put 32MB of L2 cache on a Netburst and it _still_ would _not_ beat an AMD A64-based design. Again, the Core 2 Duo is a return to and an improvement over the original P6 (Pentium Pro) core. That's why it's very, very competitive with AMD MHz for MHz -- _unlike_ Intel Netburst (P4). And because Intel has a 12-18 month lead in fabrication over AMD (because fabs cost _billions_ of dollars), Intel can offer higher frequencies for the same series/price. Hence why Core 2 Duo wins. It has _little_ to do with L2 cache size, especially given AMD's _superior_ L1 cache feed directly to the registers. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 11:20:01 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:20:01 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's L1 cache -- WAS: HP dv2500nr In-Reply-To: <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 11:03 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Now Core 2 Duo _is_ different. Intel has finally _chucked_ Ooops, didn't finish that statement ... Intel has finally _chucked_ the _inefficient_ Netburst architecture. The reason why Netburst existed is because it was a "stop gap" design to merely bridge from IA-32 P6/Pentium Pro (ignoring the original Pentium, it had too many bugs) to IA-64 Itanium. So it did a quick, 18 month "refit" by extending the pipes and doing _no_ redesign. Why? 7 years ago, Intel thought we would all be Itanium by now. Unfortunately, that wasn't reality (don't get me started on IA-64 -- it's a "computer science" "paper ideal" that almost _every_ single one of us "electrical engineers" said would _fail_, _utterly_, and it did ;-). So Intel _finally_ decided to _really_ rev the P6/Pentium Pro with a full 36-48 month re-design circa 2002-2003. That is now the Core architecture. It's very efficient, just like the P6 was -- totally the opposite of the Netburst (P4). Understand that this is Intel's _first_ IA-32[e] redesign since the Pentium Pro of 1994. So now, with the introduction of the Core design, Intel has a 5-6 year lead on AMD -- in addition to their 12-18 month fabrication lead. AMD's last redesign was the Athlon (yes, 32-bit) in 1999. The A64/Opteron (including Turion64) is the _same_ architecture. The original Athlon was actually a 40-bit platform -- based on the 64-bit Digital Alpha 21x64 -- and easily extended to 64-bit registers. That's why AMD could do it without a major redesign. The _only_ major advantage that AMD has over Intel is in the 2+ way space, especially 4+ way. It had already built a non-shared, _truly_ switched platform interconnect in the Athlon based on the Digital EV6. They merely moved it from a switch crossbar to a partial mesh. In fact, as I understand it, AMD's multicore is the EV6 Xbar internally, meaning they could easily go to 13-core with_out_ any redesign (EV6 is 16-way minus 3, 2 for the dual DDR channels plus 1 for HyperTransport). The switched/mesh design _forces_ AMD to put an I/O MMU on the CPU. This took a _years_ for AMD to mature, which it did in the original Athlon MP (yes, 32-bit). That's because of memory coherency for I/O -- with a "shared bus" Intel just relies on the chipset. With AMD, it has to maintain _full_ I/O coherency on _each_ processor. Now that has turned into a _major_ advantage -- as Opterons maintain memory mapped I/O affinity to _each_ processor. The result is that Opteron scales much, much better than Intel Xeon "shared bus" design. Even it's forthcoming, split bus is still not the same. Although it will allow Xeon to scale a little better in combination with IBM's X3 architecture (long story). But it's clear that with Intel's return to the _efficient_ Pentium Pro base in the Core processor, and the _end_ of Netburst (P4), Intel is back in the lead as far as ALU performance. Combined with their proliferation of "lossy math" SSE (whereas AMD does SSE with its full, 3-issue FPU for greater precision -- great for scientific/engineering apps, but who cares about video/games?), Intel is in a pretty position. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From pc_support at thingbuilder.com Sat Jul 22 12:05:03 2006 From: pc_support at thingbuilder.com (BBBB) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 11:05:03 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] CD-DVD Drive Question Message-ID: <008b01c6ada8$97b4d740$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> This week (I am not a computer professional) I tried to help a friend install Windows XP on his HP ZE4600 laptop. We could never get Windows to install. His hard disk had failed and a new one was installed. We tried several Linux distributions to test the new drive and he went home with Suse 10.1 on his machine but He needs XP for his business. All the windows install discs were CDs. We couldn't get any Linux to install from CDs but DVDs worked. We had Ubuntu Dapper on both types of discs and only the DVD would install. Is it possible that a CD-DVD drive could work in one mode and only partially in the other? Should he buy a new DVD drive, or does it sound like we are barking up the wrong tree? I should mention that the CD would start to install and would go through the format process and get to the install screen but would soon start giving errors that some files couldn't be installed. We tried 98SE, 2000, and XP, (HP system restore discs). Thanks Bradley From dave at dgnal.net Sat Jul 22 22:34:05 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:34:05 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AMD / Intel CPU's Was: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's In-Reply-To: <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> All this talk...was hoping to see the AMD X2 prices fall to around 50% - but a quick search of NewEgg.com doesn't show that?! Was the 'leaked news' just hype? Am I missing something? Thanks! - dave From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 22:23:20 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:23:20 -0400 Subject: AMD / Intel CPU's Was: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's In-Reply-To: <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 21:34 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > All this talk...was hoping to see the AMD X2 prices fall to around 50% - > but a quick search of NewEgg.com doesn't show that?! Was the 'leaked > news' just hype? Am I missing something? Yes. The AMD price cuts hit Monday, July 23rd. ;-> Understand Intel's new Core 2 (not the Core in notebooks, but the Core 2 _desktop_ processor) will _not_ officially announced until July 23rd. And even then most retail availability (i.e., for non-Tier 1 PC OEMs) will _not_ be until mid-August. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 22:24:40 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:24:40 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] CD-DVD Drive Question In-Reply-To: <008b01c6ada8$97b4d740$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> References: <008b01c6ada8$97b4d740$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> Message-ID: <1153621480.2923.27.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 11:05 -0500, BBBB wrote: > This week (I am not a computer professional) I tried to help a > friend install Windows XP on his HP ZE4600 laptop. We could > never get Windows to install. His hard disk had failed and a new > one was installed. We tried several Linux distributions to test the > new drive and he went home with Suse 10.1 on his machine but > He needs XP for his business. > All the windows install discs were CDs. We couldn't get any Linux > to install from CDs but DVDs worked. We had Ubuntu Dapper on > both types of discs and only the DVD would install. > Is it possible that a CD-DVD drive could work in one mode and > only partially in the other? Should he buy a new DVD drive, or > does it sound like we are barking up the wrong tree? > I should mention that the CD would start to install and would go > through the format process and get to the install screen but would > soon start giving errors that some files couldn't be installed. We > tried 98SE, 2000, and XP, (HP system restore discs). It is quite possible the laser has degraded and is incapable of reading some types of media. It happens as a drive ages. Especially when it comes to recordable or, worse yet, rewritable media -- but it can fail to work with even pressed ROMs too. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 22:40:20 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:40:20 -0400 Subject: AMD / Intel CPU's Was: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's In-Reply-To: <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153622420.2923.43.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 22:23 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Yes. The AMD price cuts hit Monday, July 23rd. ;-> > Understand Intel's new Core 2 (not the Core in notebooks, but the Core 2 > _desktop_ processor) will _not_ officially announced until July 23rd. > And even then most retail availability (i.e., for non-Tier 1 PC OEMs) > will _not_ be until mid-August. Correction, that is Monday, July 24th! So wait until Monday. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From dave at dgnal.net Sat Jul 22 23:05:20 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:05:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AMD / Intel CPU's Was: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's In-Reply-To: <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > Yes. The AMD price cuts hit Monday, July 23rd. ;-> ACTUALLY did find an 'early bird' http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4858900 dave From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 22:46:57 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:46:57 -0400 Subject: AMD / Intel CPU's Was: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's In-Reply-To: <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 22:05 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > ACTUALLY did find an 'early bird' > http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4858900 Note that is Socket-AM2 (new Socket-940) and _not_ Socket-939. They are listing the Socket-939 for the $300 price. Yikes! I hope AMD is reducing the price on both Socket-939 and AM2. If not, looks like I'm buying a new AM2 mainboard and DDR2 memory. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From dave at dgnal.net Sat Jul 22 23:13:46 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:13:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: AMD / Intel CPU's Was: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's In-Reply-To: <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <2124.71.252.176.10.1153624426.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > Note that is Socket-AM2 (new Socket-940) and _not_ Socket-939. > They are listing the Socket-939 for the $300 price. Yikes! but this is what they were talking about doing - to compete on a DDR2 standpoint, no? I don't remember them saying they were going Socket-939 - as that's not where they need the competitive price? > If not, looks like I'm buying a new AM2 mainboard and DDR2 memory. ;-> AND...theBS' recommendations are? The Anandtech article had some recommendations on 'value' DDR2 ram that performed pretty darn close to the uber-expensive (it was 4-4-4 verses 4-4-3 if I remember right). Dave From pc_support at thingbuilder.com Sat Jul 22 22:53:55 2006 From: pc_support at thingbuilder.com (BBBB) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:53:55 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] CD-DVD Drive Question References: <008b01c6ada8$97b4d740$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> <1153621480.2923.27.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <00a401c6ae03$3d6a4f30$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> > > Is it possible that a CD-DVD drive could work in one mode and > > only partially in the other? > > It is quite possible the laser has degraded and is incapable of reading > some types of media. Thanks. It seemed a little far fetched but it sounds like a new drive is worth a try. Bradley From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 22:56:12 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:56:12 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD / Intel CPU's -- $150/200/250 for 3800/4200/4600 (2.0/2.2/2.4 x2) In-Reply-To: <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153623372.2923.59.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 22:46 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Note that is Socket-AM2 (new Socket-940) and _not_ Socket-939. > They are listing the Socket-939 for the $300 price. Yikes! FYI, here is that page ... http://shop2.outpost.com/search?cat=-51580 Note only the AM2 is $159. BTW, PriceWatch is starting to show the new pricing, but if you click on the links, it's clear some of the advertisers are not showing up at those prices ... http://www.pricewatch.com/cpu/ > I hope AMD is reducing the price on both Socket-939 and AM2. > If not, looks like I'm buying a new AM2 mainboard and DDR2 memory. ;-> It _does_ seem like the price cuts will hit Socket-939 according to PriceWatch's pages (as well as confirmations by AnandTech and others). The x2-4200+ (2.2+512 x2) is just over $200 and might be worth the extra $30-50 IMHO over the x2-3800 (2.0+512 x2). I'm probably going to go for it. If you don't need dual-core, the single core 3500+ (2.2/512) and 3800+ (2.4/512) are $90-115 and quite good for gaming. They are also the sub-40W designs too. -- Bryan P.S. Crap! The x2-4600+ (2.4+512 x2) is going to list for $247 from Monarch Computer with $1.99 shipping! I think PriceWatch's site is "letting the cat out of the bag" a little early! -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 23:01:07 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:01:07 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD / Intel CPU's -- $150/200/250 for 3800/4200/4600 (2.0/2.2/2.4 x2) In-Reply-To: <1153623372.2923.59.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153623372.2923.59.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153623667.2923.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 22:56 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > P.S. Crap! The x2-4600+ (2.4+512 x2) is going to list for $247 from > Monarch Computer with $1.99 shipping! I think PriceWatch's site is > "letting the cat out of the bag" a little early! Here is the _latest_ AMD pricing for both 7/24 and 10/23 ... http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2094_large_amd_pricing_1023.png Damn is AMD getting competitive! Here's the related article ... http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3361 -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 23:31:23 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:31:23 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD / Intel CPU's -- $150/200/250 for 3800/4200/4600 (2.0/2.2/2.4 x2) In-Reply-To: <1153623667.2923.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153623372.2923.59.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153623667.2923.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153625483.2923.67.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 23:01 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Here is the _latest_ AMD pricing for both 7/24 and 10/23 ... > http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2094_large_amd_pricing_1023.png > Damn is AMD getting competitive! > Here's the related article ... > http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3361 Monarch Computer _does_ have the latest prices on Retail boxes ... Socket-939 A64 and Opteron xx0 single core: http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=AMD64 Socket-939 x2 and Opteron xx5 dual-core: http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=amddc Socket-AM2/940: http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=AM2 OEM in mainboard combos (or barebones/systems) is even lower. E.g., their AM2 x2-4600+ for $239. They are listing availability as 2-3 or 4-6 business days, depending on the model. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 23:34:11 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:34:11 -0400 Subject: AMD / Intel CPU's Was: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's In-Reply-To: <2124.71.252.176.10.1153624426.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2124.71.252.176.10.1153624426.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1153625651.2923.71.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 22:13 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > but this is what they were talking about doing - to compete on a DDR2 > standpoint, no? I don't remember them saying they were going Socket-939 - > as that's not where they need the competitive price? Not so. AMD is going to drop Socket-939 as well, because they want to ward off enthusiasts buying new memory/systems. And I'm one of them! One of the reasons I'm staying Socket-939 is because I don't want to spend $100+ for a quality AM2 mainboard and $200 for 2GB of decently timed DDR2. If I'm going to do that, I might as well wait for Core2. But if I can spend just $150-200 for a x2 4200+ for my current mainboard, that makes me happy for 6+ months, maybe a good 12-18. > AND...theBS' recommendations are? The Anandtech article had some > recommendations on 'value' DDR2 ram that performed pretty darn close to > the uber-expensive (it was 4-4-4 verses 4-4-3 if I remember right). Not so much "value" but "near-value." Yes. But they are still approaching $200 for a matched pair of 1GB (2GB total). -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 22 23:36:53 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:36:53 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] CD-DVD Drive Question In-Reply-To: <00a401c6ae03$3d6a4f30$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> References: <008b01c6ada8$97b4d740$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> <1153621480.2923.27.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <00a401c6ae03$3d6a4f30$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> Message-ID: <1153625813.2923.76.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 21:53 -0500, BBBB wrote: > Thanks. It seemed a little far fetched Huh? "Far fetched"? I've seen _many_ CD+DVD drives do _exactly_ that. The frequency response for the laser drops for some ranges, but not for others. Different CD and DVD formats use _different_ frequencies. Especially if you start reading _unsupported_ rewritabale media in your drive. E.g., CAV CD-RW media (what I retroactively call CD+RW). Especially if someone used CLV with a Z-CLV or CAV record. > but it sounds like a new drive is worth a try. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 23 00:42:13 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:42:13 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AGP 4X/8X -- 6200 AGP claims 1.5V and K6 support ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1153629733.2923.81.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2006-07-20 at 15:13 -0400, Read, Greg wrote: > Thanks everyone, > I can't find the voltage to the AGP slot listed anywhere, nor can I find > the voltage to the card listed on XFX's site. > Jason's experience with XFX is strike two. > I'll wait until I upgrade the MB. FYI ... I was just searching through various video cards and one $39.99 ($49.99 - $10 mail-in rebate) GeForce 6200 128MB AGP card stuck out ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814125217 Specifically near the bottom ... "Intel Pentium 4/III/II/Celeron, AMD K6/Athlon or compatible with AGP 8X (0.8V)/4X (1.5V) slot" It _specifically_ states 1.5V. It also says Pentium II and AMD K6. Virtually every other 6000-series card I've seen says Pentium III or Duron minimum, and _nothing_ about voltages. So this is a good chance that it'll work with old AGP x2/x4 mainboards that supported 1.5V/3.3V. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From pc_support at thingbuilder.com Sun Jul 23 00:50:08 2006 From: pc_support at thingbuilder.com (BBBB) Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 23:50:08 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] CD-DVD Drive Question References: <008b01c6ada8$97b4d740$4c01a8c0@dvdburner><1153621480.2923.27.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com><00a401c6ae03$3d6a4f30$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> <1153625813.2923.76.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <010701c6ae13$799753d0$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan J. Smith" > On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 21:53 -0500, BBBB wrote: > > Thanks. It seemed a little far fetched > > Huh? "Far fetched"? I've seen _many_ CD+DVD drives do _exactly_ that. _Seemed_ not seems. Don't be offended. I meant before you explained it. Thanks for a helpful list. Bradley From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 23 00:59:08 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:59:08 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AGP 4X/8X -- GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB AGPx4 w/DVI for $29.99 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1153630748.2923.85.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2006-07-19 at 15:41 -0400, Read, Greg wrote: > I have an old system, Athlon 1700XP and it has an AGP 4X slot; I'm > currently using a NVidia GeForce 3 Ti200 in it. > I bough a new LCD monitor that has a DVI input and I wanted to get a > cheap NVidia graphics card that has DVI. Okay, CompGeeks.COM has a few, new GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB AGPx4 cards with DVI (as well as VGA-DB15 and TV-out) for $29.99. They are _new_, in-box, and the Ti4200 _definitely_ supports AGPx4 1.5V, if not AGPx2 3.3V tolerant as well. http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=TI4200-64-TD&cat=VCD They only had 4 left at the time I sent this. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 23 01:19:04 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:19:04 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AGP 4X/8X -- 3D Fuzion claims _all_ AGP cards support 1.5V In-Reply-To: <1153629733.2923.81.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1153629733.2923.81.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153631944.2923.88.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-23 at 00:42 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > FYI ... I was just searching through various video cards and one $39.99 > ($49.99 - $10 mail-in rebate) GeForce 6200 128MB AGP card stuck out ... > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814125217 > Specifically near the bottom ... > "Intel Pentium 4/III/II/Celeron, AMD K6/Athlon or compatible > with AGP 8X (0.8V)/4X (1.5V) slot" > It _specifically_ states 1.5V. It also says Pentium II and AMD K6. > Virtually every other 6000-series card I've seen says Pentium III or > Duron minimum, and _nothing_ about voltages. So this is a good chance > that it'll work with old AGP x2/x4 mainboards that supported 1.5V/3.3V. 3D Fuzion claims _all_ of their AGP cards are 1.5V compatible: http://www.3dfuzion.com/support.asp#10 Just make sure you have an AGP 2.0 (2x/4x) mainboard that really _does_ support 1.5V cards, and not merely 3.3V like AGP 1.0 (1x/2x) and some early AGP 2.0 (2x/4x) mainboards only did. If you can pass on your mainboard make/model, I can try to verify this. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 23 01:51:34 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:51:34 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] CD-DVD Drive Question In-Reply-To: <010701c6ae13$799753d0$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> References: <008b01c6ada8$97b4d740$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> <1153621480.2923.27.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <00a401c6ae03$3d6a4f30$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> <1153625813.2923.76.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <010701c6ae13$799753d0$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> Message-ID: <1153633894.2923.98.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 23:50 -0500, BBBB wrote: > _Seemed_ not seems. Oh, okay. > Don't be offended. Why would I be "offended"? I honestly wish people would stop interpreting my follow-ups as being "offended." In 100% honesty, I think "too far outside the box" for most people. Most of the time, anywhere from 75% to even 95% of people on a list** "just don't get" what I'm talking about. So I _never_ take offense. My goal is to _always_ explain why something may be happening. > I meant before you explained it. I just wanted to follow-up why sometimes you can read CD or DVDs, but not the other -- or possibly different CD and/or DVD formats but not another. -- Bryan **NOTE: There have been several people that have been around LEAP for 5 + years that can attest to my "thinking outside the box." This certainly does everything -- from seeming arrogance to just plainly "pissing people off" that I "just won't agree" or "subscribe to common thought." At the same time, several people around LEAP have gained experience and/or engineering degrees as well over that time. I _never_ "hold" my engineering degree "over" anyone -- _period_. But as a lesser-known LEAP member of over 6 years who first joined back when he was early into his EE program and recently graduated a couple of years ago (with 1-2 years of post-graduate experience under his belt) recently told me, he now finds himself at "odds" with many technicians as well. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 23 02:00:42 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:00:42 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] GeForce 6200"LE" is crippled 6200 (worse than chipset-integrated 6100/6150) ... Message-ID: <1153634442.2923.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> I'm going to add this to my Blog article shortly (along with other updates, like the new 7600GS AGP, etc...): http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2006/02/geforce-6-and-7-series-variants-nuts.html But I wanted to let people know there are now plenty of 256MB 6200"LE" cards out there. They are typically similar in price to the 128MB 6200, so you might be tempted to buy one -- especially for older AGP systems. But what they don't tell you is that the 6200"LE" GPUs are _crippled_ to only 2/1 pixel/vertex, whereas the full 6200 has 4/3 pixel/vertex. That's a _major_ performance hit -- especially for newer titles! Most people are reporting performance slighly _worse_ than a GeForce 5700LE at newer titles (and not much better than the GeForce Ti4200 at legacy titles). You see, the 6200"LE" with a 2/1 pixel/vertex has only a 350MHz clock, which is _slower_ than the C51 (6100/6150) chipset-integrated GPU which are 425-475MHz (also 2/1 pixel/vertex). So you'd be better off spending the $50 on a new mainboard with the C51 chipset! So _avoid_ these seemingly "cheap" 256MB 6200"LE" cards in either an AGP or PCIe flavor. Go for the full 6200 AGP with only 128MB of RAM, or a 6200 PCIe TurboCache 256MB flavor with at least 64MB (if not 128MB) of actual RAM on-board. Or in the "worst case," get a C51 mainboard with the 6100/6150 on-board -- it'll still be faster! -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From jasonb at edseek.com Sun Jul 23 02:01:38 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:01:38 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] GeForce 6200"LE" is crippled 6200 (worse than chipset-integrated 6100/6150) ... In-Reply-To: <1153634442.2923.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1153634442.2923.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200607230201.38235.jasonb@edseek.com> On Sunday 23 July 2006 02:00, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > I'm going to add this to my Blog article shortly (along with other > updates, like the new 7600GS AGP, etc...): > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2006/02/geforce-6-and-7-series-variants-nuts.h >tml > > But I wanted to let people know there are now plenty of 256MB 6200"LE" > cards out there. They are typically similar in price to the 128MB 6200, > so you might be tempted to buy one -- especially for older AGP systems. I've come to the conclusion that LE must stand for Lame Edition. -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 23 02:44:57 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:44:57 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD Athlon 64 3300+ (2.4/256) for $29.97 ($79.97 - $50 rebate)! Message-ID: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Okay all you Socket-754 owners out there. TigerDirect.COM has a 2.4GHz, 256KB L2 Athlon 64 (model 3300+) for $29.97! $79.97 - $50 rebate. That is just an unbelievable price! It's an OEM processor, no cooling. But damn if this thing isn't a great replacement for my cheap 1.6GHz, 256KB Sempron 64 (model 2800+, which is rated higher than it would be against the Athlon 64). Just FYI ... http://dealnews.com/deals/AMD-Athlon-64-3300-2-4-GHz-Socket-754-Processor-for-30-after-rebate/126030.html -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 23 03:32:57 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 03:32:57 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: HP dv2025nr (correction) -- $799 Gateway MX3414 (identical) In-Reply-To: <1153193054.3562.10.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153111858.2878.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44BBA2F6.5030605@matt-land.com> <1153193054.3562.10.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153639978.2923.118.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2006-07-17 at 23:24 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Actually, HP's on-line customizer gives almost the exact same price > after $100 instant and $50 mail-in rebate. So if I'm going to order, > I'm just going to go with HP directly -- even though it's a little wait > (7-8 days). > I was playing not only with the dv2025nr with integrated GeForce Go > 6150 ... > But the dv2000 series is definitely slicker. > You can't fit in a video chip with dedicated VRAM. > So I'm not sure I want to go to the 5000 series. > Maybe they'll have a GeForce Go 7200 with shared RAM soon? Okay, these stock Turion 64 x2 designs are starting to become commonplace. This week Best Buy has a Gateway MX3414 on-sale for $799 out-the-door. And how does it differ? It doesn't! That's what I call Same Taiwanese Supplier Syndrome (STSS). ;-> It physically looks _exactly_ like the HP dv2025nr design -- right down to the curved styling. Exact same dimensions (13" x 9.5" x 1.5", with 14" widescreen) and weight (5.3lbs.), Turion 64 ML-50 (1.6/256 x2), 1GB DDR2-533/PC2-4200, 100GB HD, etc... Other specs are exactly the same, except they ship a Go 6100 logic instead of the Go 6150 -- a few MHz shaved off the clock (desktop 6100 v. 6150 is 425MHz v. 475MHz -- probably similar). The question is if I wait another month, will someone have these things for $699? How about $599? Gateway doesn't even list any AMD notebooks in their product line-up on-line, so this is clearly a retail offering -- possibly outsourced _completely_, right down to support (HP too?). -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From kyle.gonzales at gmail.com Fri Jul 21 10:41:00 2006 From: kyle.gonzales at gmail.com (Kyle Gonzales) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:41:00 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: [LeapList] HP dv2500nr: 64-bit x2, GeForce 6150, 1GB, 100GB HD, 8x DVD-DL for sub-$1K In-Reply-To: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> I will not buy a Turion X2 chip. 256k L2 per core? Blah, its already testing out poorly. I'll wait for the Core 2 Duo for the laptop. My wife has a Turion chip in her laptop, and it runs well. However, the cache (or lack thereof) on the Turion X2 is a dealbreaker for me. On Sun, 2006-07-16 at 10:08 -0700, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Finally! The nVidia GeForce Go 6150 (NV44/C51) chipset hit just a > little bit ago and now they've matched the Turion x2 ML-50 (dual-core > 1.6GHz) to it. With 1GB RAM (expandable to 2GB), large 100GB 5400rpm > HD and an 8x DVD-/+RW dual-layer drive, it's definitely a mobile > desktop worth having. > > And it's available for less than $1,000 at Best Buy (SKU 7911067). > > The dv2000 series is Linux compatible, as virtually all NV44/C51 > designs are in the stock kernel (the built-in 802.11b/g wireless is > another matter though). Although there is not formal GeForce Go 6150 > support in the current ForceWare 85 drivers, people are running Linux > on it with those drivers. > > I'm going to go check it out today myself. > -- Kyle Gonzales -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060721/a294fca2/attachment.bin From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net Sun Jul 23 10:10:45 2006 From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (Austin Denyer (Ozz)) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:10:45 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] CD-DVD Drive Question In-Reply-To: <1153633894.2923.98.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <008b01c6ada8$97b4d740$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> <1153621480.2923.27.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <00a401c6ae03$3d6a4f30$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> <1153625813.2923.76.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <010701c6ae13$799753d0$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> <1153633894.2923.98.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <20060723101045.754b9b9e.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:51:34 -0400, "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > > I just wanted to follow-up why sometimes you can read CD or DVDs, but > not the other -- or possibly different CD and/or DVD formats but not > another. Following on from TheBS's points... Another thing that can make a difference is the color of the CD. Seriously. This is generally only an issue with CD-R and CD-RW, but I have seen cases where a drive would flat refuse to read media of certain colors. Weak lasers can have issues with the lower reflectivity of some colors. Regards, Ozz. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060723/b81293fd/attachment.bin From pc_support at thingbuilder.com Sun Jul 23 11:54:08 2006 From: pc_support at thingbuilder.com (BBBB) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:54:08 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] CD-DVD Drive Question References: <008b01c6ada8$97b4d740$4c01a8c0@dvdburner><1153621480.2923.27.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com><00a401c6ae03$3d6a4f30$4c01a8c0@dvdburner><1153625813.2923.76.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com><010701c6ae13$799753d0$4c01a8c0@dvdburner><1153633894.2923.98.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <20060723101045.754b9b9e.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> Message-ID: <019d01c6ae70$3c1e80c0$4c01a8c0@dvdburner> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Austin (Ozz) Denyer" On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:51:34 -0400, "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > > I just wanted to follow-up why sometimes you can read CD or DVDs, but > not the other -- or possibly different CD and/or DVD formats but not > another. Following on from TheBS's points... Another thing that can make a difference is the color of the CD. Seriously. This is generally only an issue with CD-R and CD-RW, but I have seen cases where a drive would flat refuse to read media of certain colors. Weak lasers can have issues with the lower reflectivity of some colors. Regards, Ozz. Thanks for the info. All the Windows CDs were originals. The Linux DVDs came from magazines (We installed 5 different distros from DVDs that day and all worked), Linux CDs were printed by Ubuntu or burned by me. Best I can tell, it's just CDs that won't install. It will be interesting to see if a new drive fixes the problem. -- Thanks for all the help. Great list. Bradley From jasonb at edseek.com Sun Jul 23 12:52:13 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:52:13 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD Athlon 64 3300+ (2.4/256) for $29.97 ($79.97 - $50 rebate)! In-Reply-To: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200607231252.13436.jasonb@edseek.com> On Sunday 23 July 2006 02:44, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Okay all you Socket-754 owners out there. TigerDirect.COM has a 2.4GHz, > 256KB L2 Athlon 64 (model 3300+) for $29.97! $79.97 - $50 rebate. That > is just an unbelievable price! I'm in! I'd suspect sooner, rather than later, it will be harder to find these this cheap. I went with the 1.4GHz Sempron myself last fall for ~$72 I think. Would the stock AMD HSF that came with the Sempron be enough? I wonder if I shouldn't get a better HSF for this CPU. Thanks. (I always hear horror stories about TD rebates, but I haven't had an issue so far having done two or so; I think I started TD rebates after the major complaint against them...) -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From jasonb at edseek.com Sun Jul 23 13:02:42 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:02:42 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD Athlon 64 3300+ (2.4/256) for $29.97 ($79.97 - $50 rebate)! In-Reply-To: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200607231302.42779.jasonb@edseek.com> On Sunday 23 July 2006 02:44, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Okay all you Socket-754 owners out there. TigerDirect.COM has a 2.4GHz, > 256KB L2 Athlon 64 (model 3300+) for $29.97! $79.97 - $50 rebate. That > is just an unbelievable price! +$13 Florida tax and shipping. TD does sales tax in Florida. Sigh. So that's $43. $95 is the cheapest I found on pricewatch, so it's still good. For me, once something I in no way need approaches -> $50 I tend to think about it more than $30 where it's impulse. ;) *gets his wallet* I'm still in. ;) -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From carter at carter.cc Sun Jul 23 23:27:03 2006 From: carter at carter.cc (Carter Manucy) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 23:27:03 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD / Intel CPU's -- $150/200/250 for 3800/4200/4600 (2.0/2.2/2.4 x2) In-Reply-To: <1153625483.2923.67.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153623372.2923.59.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153623667.2923.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153625483.2923.67.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <44C43E07.4050902@carter.cc> So let me pose a question to everyone... Given these new prices, would you buy AMD or Intel on a 'moderate budget' machine (around $600 w/XP Pro)? I'm looking to put together a machine for an office computer for a client - and I'm torn between the 805D ($104) and trying to push a little more for the Athlon 3800. I need to buy it by tomorrow to get the job done the following weekend... so this new pricing structure by AMD is definitely timely if nothing else. Thoughts? -Carter From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 24 05:46:37 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:46:37 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD / Intel CPU's -- $150/200/250 for 3800/4200/4600 (2.0/2.2/2.4 x2) In-Reply-To: <44C43E07.4050902@carter.cc> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153623372.2923.59.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153623667.2923.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153625483.2923.67.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44C43E07.4050902@carter.cc> Message-ID: <1153734397.3644.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-23 at 23:27 -0400, Carter Manucy wrote: > So let me pose a question to everyone... > Given these new prices, would you buy AMD or Intel on a 'moderate > budget' machine (around $600 w/XP Pro)? Oh, then you might not talking dual-core, but single-core. Intel's Core 2 Duo E6300 (1.83/1024 x2) starts at over $200. The AMD Athlon 64 3800+ (2.0/512 x2) starts at $150. AMD Athlon 64 (non-x2) are well under $100 for a fairly powerful and low-power 3500+ (2.2/512), some are showing the 3800+ (2.4/512) that low too. > I'm looking to put together a machine for an office computer for a > client - and I'm torn between the 805D ($104) Do *NOT* buy a Pentium D. _Wait_ for the Core 2 Duo. > and trying to push a little more for the Athlon 3800. I need to buy > it by tomorrow to get the job done the following weekend... so this > new pricing structure by AMD is definitely timely if nothing else. If you can't wait, and want to spend under $100, you can't go wrong with a single Athlon 64 3500+ Socket-AM2/940, $50 Socket-AM2/940 nForce4 or 550 mainboard and 1GB cheap DDR2 memory (in 2x512MB matched pair pieces for true dual-DDR2). -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 24 05:52:07 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:52:07 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD price drops pushed back to 7/31?! Message-ID: <1153734727.3644.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> NewEgg.COM and others aren't showing the price drops. Monarch is now reporting a ship date of 7/31 for new x2 prices. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From carter at carter.cc Mon Jul 24 19:24:43 2006 From: carter at carter.cc (Carter Manucy) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:24:43 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD / Intel CPU's -- $150/200/250 for 3800/4200/4600 (2.0/2.2/2.4 x2) In-Reply-To: <1153734397.3644.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2023.71.252.176.10.1153623920.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153622817.2923.50.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153623372.2923.59.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153623667.2923.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153625483.2923.67.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44C43E07.4050902@carter.cc> <1153734397.3644.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <44C556BB.4070000@carter.cc> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Oh, then you might not talking dual-core, but single-core. Intel's Core > 2 Duo E6300 (1.83/1024 x2) starts at over $200. The AMD Athlon 64 3800+ > (2.0/512 x2) starts at $150. AMD Athlon 64 (non-x2) are well under $100 > for a fairly powerful and low-power 3500+ (2.2/512), some are showing > the 3800+ (2.4/512) that low too. > Well, not dual-core for AMD, but for Intel. Kind of like "What kind of processor can I buy for $100?" type of scenario. >> I'm looking to put together a machine for an office computer for a >> client - and I'm torn between the 805D ($104) >> > > Do *NOT* buy a Pentium D. _Wait_ for the Core 2 Duo. > I haven't bought an Intel machine (personally) since my PII-450 from Dell. Everything since has been from AMD (either due to price and/or price & performance), but this model really caught my attention. I mean, for about $100, you end up with a dual core machine that's got some extreme potential for overclocking - http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores - now granted I'm not going to push this thing to the limits, but it might be fun to get a few more GHz out of it. > If you can't wait, and want to spend under $100, you can't go wrong with > a single Athlon 64 3500+ Socket-AM2/940, $50 Socket-AM2/940 nForce4 or > 550 mainboard and 1GB cheap DDR2 memory (in 2x512MB matched pair pieces > for true dual-DDR2). > I ended up going with the tried-and-true... X2 3800 w/Asus M2NPV-VM and 2x Corsair 512 XMS2 PC6400 5-5-5-15. Since this needs to be a stable, reliable system I opted for a little better memory w/slower timings vs. something else. (I know - my statement above about overclocking has ZERO to do with stability!) But really, you think that 805D is really crap, huh? Like I said, I haven't had an Intel system for quite some time, so I don't know "what it's like" behind one of those CPU's. -Carter From carter at carter.cc Mon Jul 24 19:25:48 2006 From: carter at carter.cc (Carter Manucy) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:25:48 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD price drops pushed back to 7/31?! In-Reply-To: <1153734727.3644.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1153734727.3644.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <44C556FC.4050901@carter.cc> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > NewEgg.COM and others aren't showing the price drops. > Monarch is now reporting a ship date of 7/31 for new x2 prices. > > > I just got my X2-3800 for $169 from Newegg. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 24 21:48:31 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:48:31 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's L1 cache -- WAS: HP dv2500nr In-Reply-To: <1153773270.3377.1.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153773270.3377.1.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> Message-ID: <1153792111.2944.2.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2006-07-24 at 16:34 -0400, Kyle Gonzales wrote: > I gave in and bought one for my wife... $799 for a dual core with 1 Gb > of memory was hard to resist... I'm sorry if my prior response came off as a "bark." I just wanted to point out the fact that L2 cache isn't why Core (Duo notebooks or 2 Duo desktops) is better -- which didn't help the Netburst (Pentium 4) at all. It's the core itself that is solid, unlike Netburst. With that said, the Core Duo is a solid choice for a notebook, and the Core 2 Duo is a good desktop even more so. I'm really now thinking about just spending $1,200 for a 8lbs., 17" Core Duo with GeForce Go 7600. But I'm not sure yet. > So I'll get to see how well her new laptop performs before I burden > myself with a bad tech. :) -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 25 09:30:25 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:30:25 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- AMD has to control the GPU In-Reply-To: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> Message-ID: <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2006-07-24 at 12:10 -0400, Ray Brunkow wrote: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5210276.stm > discuss. is this good or bad? Will this mean that ATI > will now start supporting Linux, ATI has been supporting Linux in its commercial GPU drivers for the last year or two. Their chipset business has been more in its infancy, so support was more limited -- just as nVidia's chipset support under Linux took a couple of years of availability to pick up. > or will AMD stop supporting Linux... neither both, what. Considering AMD and ATI themselves, like Intel and nVidia, are heavily Linux internally, they'd cut their own throat. Understand the 90% of the EDA world has been 100% Linux since the start of the 21st Century. Another a key factor in AMD's purchase of ATI is to move the GPU from the peripheral bus to where it belongs -- the system interconnect. That isn't just for gaming, but _high_end_ CAM engineering and precise (non-lossy math) simulation. These markets are also heavily Linux. Intel's current platform "bus" interconnect makes this _impossible_. That's why Intel has not moved past using AGP and, now, PCIe -- both I/O interconnects -- as video interconnects. It uses 100% _software_ to maintain CPU to GPU coherence, because it's CPUs _lack_ anything else. A "bus" is easy -- because there is *1* point of contention, the chipset. Everything must pass through it -- everything must be _shared_ through it. AMD opened the gate to higher performance when they switched to the "switched" interconnect of Digital Alpha EV6 -- and learned a lot (the "hard way") with the Athlon MP. The Athlon64/Opteron is the _first_ commodity processor with a _true_ switched/mesh interconnect and on-board I/O MMU -- an evolution from the _on-chip_ (not "on-chipset" like Intel) AGPgart to maintain coherence between CPUs doing I/O, namely AGP video. Today, the I/O MMU maintains coherency between all processors on the HyperTransport partial mesh. HyperTransport processors also have their own _I/O_ affinity -- I/O is physically (and logically) _localized_ to each processor. That's why InfiniBand over HyperTransport is 3x faster than PCIe x16 -- and scales _linearly_ for multiple HyperTransport interconnects from multiple CPUs. Now imagine that for video cards! Especially high-end CAM solutions that are almost always running Linux -- as well as entertainment. Intel can't do it. That's why we have PCIe, yet another peripheral bus. The GPU is a CPU. It needs to be coherent with CPUs, on the same interconnect. AMD doesn't have the marketing muscle to get GPU vendors to do HyperTransport. So AMD finally just bought a GPU vendor. I don't know if they'll have the money to do so. That's the scary part. But they're doing it regardless. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 25 10:03:00 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:03:00 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- this will *ELIMINATE* ATI's proprietary kernel driver In-Reply-To: <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153836180.3120.47.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 09:30 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Intel's current platform "bus" interconnect makes this _impossible_. > That's why Intel has not moved past using AGP and, now, PCIe -- both I/O > interconnects -- as video interconnects. It uses 100% _software_ to > maintain CPU to GPU coherence, because it's CPUs _lack_ anything else. As I regularly point out, this "100% _software_ to maintain CPU to GPU coherence" is virtually 99% of the reason why ATI and nVidia have proprietary kernel drivers**. Unlike other I/O peripheral cards that merely do "DMA" transfers to/from the system memory, video cards do, what Intel calls, "Direct in-Memory Execution" (D[i]ME). In other words, it acts like a CPU -- using memory _directly_. [ **NOTE: The proprietary kernel drivers should _not_ be confused with the proprietary XFree/Xorg (X11) driver and related LibGL library and resulting GLX (OpenGL over X11) support. Those drivers are _allowed_ by both the XFree/Xorg license. The kernel driver is used for memory _performance_ at the kernel level, which is more questionable. ] The code that both ATI and nVidia use is an Intel _trade_secret_. For the longest time, Intel even considered the AGPgart to be a trade secret. Back then, only nVidia (not ATI) has chipsets, which is why the nForce AGPgart wasn't part of the stock kernel. Once PCIe came out, Intel stopped considering its AGPgart as a trade secret, so nVidia was able to add the nForce to the stock kernel. Now I'm sure you're saying, "Wait as second Bryan! Intel's own chipset AGPgarts are in the kernel, and Intel doesn't have proprietary kernel drivers! So you're wrong!" And my response is, as always, "Have you seen the performance of the Intel drivers on Linux versus Windows?" Yeah, that's right, it _sucks_. Intel's AGPgart and [almost total lack] of a GPU support driver _kills_ performance on Linux. Memory coherency is _everything_. So what's this have to do with ATI-AMD? AMD's I/O MMU and inter-CPU coherence is in the CPU. It's _hardware_, not a flaky set of software and hacks, like Intel. So not only do we get a _stable_ way for the GPU to access system memory, because it's now on the system interconnect instead of a peripheral card trying to act like a local CPU with software hacks -- but it will *ELIMINATE* ATI's proprietary kernel driver. I've said it before and I'll say it again -- Intel has been the problem! Not ATI. Not nVidia. *INTEL*. And this move by AMD will *ELIMINATE* it, at least for ATI. ;-> nVidia will have to decide if it wishes to support AMD's new HTX GPU standard. And although it owns ATI now, I believe it will work with nVidia to do so. Because freezing Intel out of the high-end GPU market, or forcing Intel to _redesign_ their _entire_ platform to support it (which will take at least 18-24 months -- possibly longer for stable I/O MMU support which AMD took a bit to learn with the Athlon MP and AGP) is more of a marketing strategy than "beating nVidia" with its ATI arm. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From dave at dgnal.net Tue Jul 25 11:13:19 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:13:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- this will *ELIMINATE* ATI's proprietary kernel driver In-Reply-To: <1153836180.3120.47.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153836180.3120.47.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <26996.192.104.67.122.1153840399.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Bryan, When I was in college, and taking the 'core classes' in engineering....particularly the ones that were somewhat interesting but I wouldn't want to do - I always used to think, "Thank Goodness that *someone* is excited about this subject - that means it'll get done and I don't have to do it". And I'm sure someone is saying the same thing about what I'm interested in. That's how I feel about your tech posts. I have interest - but am blessed that someone else really takes an interest and want's to 'share' the info and provide the 'executive summary'. Thanks! - Dave From justinkz at gmail.com Tue Jul 25 11:05:31 2006 From: justinkz at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:05:31 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- this will *ELIMINATE* ATI's proprietary kernel driver In-Reply-To: <1153836180.3120.47.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153836180.3120.47.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <53b562310607250805g1dd1f325wa05c4b42e774f911@mail.gmail.com> On 7/25/06, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 09:30 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > Intel's current platform "bus" interconnect makes this _impossible_. > > That's why Intel has not moved past using AGP and, now, PCIe -- both I/O > > interconnects -- as video interconnects. It uses 100% _software_ to > > maintain CPU to GPU coherence, because it's CPUs _lack_ anything else. > > As I regularly point out, this "100% _software_ to maintain CPU to GPU > coherence" is virtually 99% of the reason why ATI and nVidia have > proprietary kernel drivers**. Unlike other I/O peripheral cards that > merely do "DMA" transfers to/from the system memory, video cards do, > what Intel calls, "Direct in-Memory Execution" (D[i]ME). In other > words, it acts like a CPU -- using memory _directly_. > > [ **NOTE: The proprietary kernel drivers should _not_ be confused with > the proprietary XFree/Xorg (X11) driver and related LibGL library and > resulting GLX (OpenGL over X11) support. Those drivers are _allowed_ by > both the XFree/Xorg license. The kernel driver is used for memory > _performance_ at the kernel level, which is more questionable. ] > > The code that both ATI and nVidia use is an Intel _trade_secret_. > > For the longest time, Intel even considered the AGPgart to be a trade > secret. Back then, only nVidia (not ATI) has chipsets, which is why the > nForce AGPgart wasn't part of the stock kernel. Once PCIe came out, > Intel stopped considering its AGPgart as a trade secret, so nVidia was > able to add the nForce to the stock kernel. > > Now I'm sure you're saying, "Wait as second Bryan! Intel's own chipset > AGPgarts are in the kernel, and Intel doesn't have proprietary kernel > drivers! So you're wrong!" > > And my response is, as always, "Have you seen the performance of the > Intel drivers on Linux versus Windows?" Yeah, that's right, it _sucks_. > Intel's AGPgart and [almost total lack] of a GPU support driver _kills_ > performance on Linux. Memory coherency is _everything_. > > So what's this have to do with ATI-AMD? > > AMD's I/O MMU and inter-CPU coherence is in the CPU. It's _hardware_, > not a flaky set of software and hacks, like Intel. So not only do we > get a _stable_ way for the GPU to access system memory, because it's now > on the system interconnect instead of a peripheral card trying to act > like a local CPU with software hacks -- but it will *ELIMINATE* ATI's > proprietary kernel driver. > > I've said it before and I'll say it again -- Intel has been the problem! > Not ATI. Not nVidia. *INTEL*. And this move by AMD will *ELIMINATE* > it, at least for ATI. ;-> > > nVidia will have to decide if it wishes to support AMD's new HTX GPU > standard. And although it owns ATI now, I believe it will work with > nVidia to do so. Because freezing Intel out of the high-end GPU market, > or forcing Intel to _redesign_ their _entire_ platform to support it > (which will take at least 18-24 months -- possibly longer for stable I/O > MMU support which AMD took a bit to learn with the Athlon MP and AGP) is > more of a marketing strategy than "beating nVidia" with its ATI arm. Both emails on this subject have been very enlightening... -- Justin M. Keyes From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 25 11:48:43 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:48:43 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: [LeapList] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- AMD has a core chipset logic already In-Reply-To: <1153839017.7672.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153839017.7672.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> Message-ID: <1153842523.2943.15.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 10:50 -0400, Kyle Gonzales wrote: > If they can pull it off, and increase the quality of their Linux > drivers, I'll buy their stuff all day long. Ya know, this also buys > AMD a chipset platform, as ATI got into the mobo chipset game > recently... it was a weakness of the AMD model up to this point. Actually, AMD already had a series of chipset designs. But before, AMD's models was to just "incubate" the new platform. Once that initial chipset was out, they left it to their partners. E.g., the 750 (752+751) for Athlon w/SDR, 760 (762+761) for Athlon XP w/DDR, 760 (762+766 for 6x64 at 33 or 762+768 for 3x64 at 66) for Athlon MP w/DDR. AMD's 8111 LPC (Legacy PC) and peripheral design, based on the proven 750/760 logic, had very mature Linux drivers. AMD is _still_ rev'ing those chips -- e.g., the AMD8132 adds PCI-X 2.0-266MHz support over the original AMD8131 (and its PCI-X 1.0-133MHz support). So they should re-use much of that logic, just modernize the 8111 with ATI additions. The GPU is going on the HyperTransport eXtension (HTX), so only the 8132 (legacy PCI-X) and replacement for 8111 (legacy PC / peripherals) is needed. ATI's SB400-series LPC and peripheral support, again, suffered the same support issues as nVidia's MCP (Media and Communication Processor) until late in the 2nd generation (nForce2). ATI actually _dropped_ their LPC/peripheral design in favor of ULi's more recently. But nVidia just bought out ULi. ;-> So AMD's got two-fronts ... 1. Get the ATI GPU on the 8000 HTX (HyperTransport eXtension -- already used for InfiniBand I/O) interconnect 2. Merge the 8000-SB400 logic into the best set of mature peripherals and legacy PC/PCI/PCI-X support It's clear AMD wants to target the low-end as much as the high-end overall. God knows a _major_ issue with AMD platforms right now is that Taiwanese vendors "pick'n choose" _too_many_ components. E.g., nForce forcedeth MAC driver is very _mature_, there are so many PHY chips used with it, it's always a game of "wait a few kernel revs" and "load the proprietary nvnet driver" until then. Intel _forces_ everyone to use _their_ MAC with only an _approved_ PHY chip. That's why their Ethernet drivers work out-of-the-box in most cases. At least far less than various AMD platforms. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 25 11:50:15 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:50:15 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- this will *ELIMINATE* ATI's proprietary kernel driver In-Reply-To: <26996.192.104.67.122.1153840399.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153836180.3120.47.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <26996.192.104.67.122.1153840399.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1153842615.2943.18.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 10:13 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > Bryan, > When I was in college, and taking the 'core classes' in > engineering....particularly the ones that were somewhat interesting but I > wouldn't want to do - I always used to think, "Thank Goodness that > *someone* is excited about this subject - that means it'll get done and I > don't have to do it". And I'm sure someone is saying the same thing about > what I'm interested in. > That's how I feel about your tech posts. I have interest - but am blessed > that someone else really takes an interest and want's to 'share' the info > and provide the 'executive summary'. Just know I do _not_ post to "boost my ego." I rather tire of some people having that attitude towards me. I could spend a lot of time with my wife instead of posting stuff. ;-> Although being on the road (away from her), it does help fill-in some of my free time. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 25 12:01:10 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:01:10 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- AMD has a core chipset logic already In-Reply-To: <1153842523.2943.15.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153839017.7672.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153842523.2943.15.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153843270.2943.30.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 11:48 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The GPU is going on the HyperTransport eXtension (HTX), so only the 8132 > (legacy PCI-X) and replacement for 8111 (legacy PC / peripherals) is > needed. Actually, they'll at least do ... A. Add 4-16 PCIe channels to the 8111 replacement for PCIe x1, x4 and/or x8 slot for just I/O And possibly ... B. Come out with a 8171 (?) that adds 20-40 PCIe channels for legacy PCIe video support They might not do "B" (I wouldn't), and just continue offering the ATI chipsets until ATI HTX video cards are commonplace. That's when such an 8171 wouldn't be necessary anyway. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 25 12:23:41 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:23:41 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- $90 mainboard w/Radeon X1800 256MB on-board? In-Reply-To: <1153842961.2943.25.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153839017.7672.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <89DC750D-F614-4028-824B-FC60D6242305@thelimucompany.com> <1153842961.2943.25.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153844621.2943.45.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 11:56 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > For this new GPU design, _no_ new chipset logic is required. The GPUs > will connect _directly_ to the CPU's HyperTransport channels, just like > another CPU. The mechanical form is known as HyperTransport eXtension > (HTX) -- for when the GPU is not embedded, just like InfiniBand cards. I feel I should point out another item of note. AMD is introducing a new "high-end OEM" and "mid-end enthusiast" approach for cost. Right now, you have a choice of 2 types of systems ... A. Mainboard, Chipset with GPU-integrated, optional PCIe x16 B. Mainboard, Chipset with no GPU-integrated, required PCIe x16 In both these case, you have the option of always using a PCIe x16 card because there is a PCIe x16 slot. Most OEMs sell a lot of type "A" and most people never upgrade. A lot of enthusiasts buy "B" and OEMs sell far less. AMD is really going to change this. I see a 3-tier model ... 1. Mainboard, Chipset with GPU-integrated, _no_ slot -- sub-$50 2. Mainboard, _On-board_ GPU, no HTX slot (?) -- sub-$100 3. Mainboard, _no_ GPU, HTX slot -- $100+ "1" is still going to be a staple for OEMs. There's little difference from "A" above. But this new "2" opens up a staple of performance for sub-$100! The GPU and its memory will be soldier on-board. It's _not_ in the chipset and main memory is _not_ used -- it has _dedicated_ memory, just like a video card. Remember, AMD's partial mesh is local memory to CPU -- with CPU to CPU coherence. That's a GPU too, via AMD's new approach! If you can spend less than $100 and get 10x the performance of a GPU-integrated chipset, wouldn't you? More direct yet, wouldn't an OEM? Imagine having an entry-level Radeon X1800 (in today's performance, comparable to a high-end GeForce 7600 or low-end/crippled 7800) fixed with 256MB dual-DDR2 on-mainboard on the mainboard for $90 total!!! Now yes, "3" is probably what most enthusiasts would go for, so they can upgrade their video. The mainboard will last them 24-36 months or so, until AMD revs the CPU/HyperTransport. But cost-conscience enthusiasts might still go for "2". Instead of upgrading their video card every 12-18 months and their mainboard every 24-36 months -- they will just replace the mainboard every 12-18 months for less than $100. It's well worth the bother to save that much money! -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From subscriber2list at bellsouth.net Tue Jul 25 12:33:54 2006 From: subscriber2list at bellsouth.net (subscriber2list) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:33:54 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] I have a simple question here re: the O/I nomenclature on a power switch ... Message-ID: <65380279.20060725123354@bellsouth.net> I'm sure you'll get a chuckle out of this question, but here goes ... It's been awhile and I've forgotten what the nomenclature "O/I" on power switches actually stands for ... meaning, I assume "O" is for "Off and the "I" (Represents what? "In" to mean power is "On"?). I googled, but found nothing definitively clear. I found "O/I" indicating "Overload of Current", but that's about it! Thanks in advance, Bo Dirigo P.S. OT for Bryan J, AKA The BS. Always enjoy your posts and "How's UCF football team going to do this year?" Everything I've read indicates this could be a real breakout year for them. I'm rooting for 'em! Take care. From octo at logicprobe.org Tue Jul 25 13:25:49 2006 From: octo at logicprobe.org (Derek Konigsberg) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- this will *ELIMINATE* ATI's proprietary kernel driver In-Reply-To: <1153842615.2943.18.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153836180.3120.47.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <26996.192.104.67.122.1153840399.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153842615.2943.18.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: >> That's how I feel about your tech posts. I have interest - but am blessed >> that someone else really takes an interest and want's to 'share' the info >> and provide the 'executive summary'. > > Just know I do _not_ post to "boost my ego." I rather tire of some > people having that attitude towards me. I could spend a lot of time > with my wife instead of posting stuff. ;-> > > Although being on the road (away from her), it does help fill-in some of > my free time. Frankly, I like the sorts of posts Brian makes. Sure, they may be a bit long-winded and include a bit too much detail, but you can also learn a lot from them. I've typically found that most CS-types don't have the first clue about EE stuff, and most EE-types don't have the first clue about CS stuff. As such, its always helpful when someone knows both *and* has an interest in enlightening the rest. In fact, I'd really like it if more people in our world were enlightened about computer organization and architecture. Once you know how things really work, or at least a taste of it, you gain a whole new perspective on things. For example, here's a list of the different ways people understand the term "CPU": 1. The box you plug your monitor/keyboard/mouse into 2. The main chip on your motherboard 3. A region on the silicon die within that chip package 4. Control unit, register files, instruction decoders, ALUs, FPUs, etc. --------------------------- Derek Konigsberg octo at logicprobe.org http://hecgeek.blogspot.com --------------------------- From glaiacona at aikencountysc.gov Tue Jul 25 15:05:53 2006 From: glaiacona at aikencountysc.gov (George Laiacona) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:05:53 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] I have a simple question here re: the O/I nomenclature on a power switch ... Message-ID: I always understood that to be 0 and 1, not O and I. George. >>> subscriber2list 07/25/06 12:33 PM >>> I'm sure you'll get a chuckle out of this question, but here goes ... It's been awhile and I've forgotten what the nomenclature "O/I" on power switches actually stands for ... meaning, I assume "O" is for "Off and the "I" (Represents what? "In" to mean power is "On"?). I googled, but found nothing definitively clear. I found "O/I" indicating "Overload of Current", but that's about it! Thanks in advance, Bo Dirigo P.S. OT for Bryan J, AKA The BS. Always enjoy your posts and "How's UCF football team going to do this year?" Everything I've read indicates this could be a real breakout year for them. I'm rooting for 'em! Take care. _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support at matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From justinkz at gmail.com Tue Jul 25 17:35:49 2006 From: justinkz at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:35:49 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] I have a simple question here re: the O/I nomenclature on a power switch ... In-Reply-To: <65380279.20060725123354@bellsouth.net> References: <65380279.20060725123354@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <53b562310607251435v5b2a69d6t9d5f7f7c8e47faca@mail.gmail.com> I've always assumed that "I" means the switch is connected, i.e., the circuit is complete, whereas "O" means the switch is disconnected, i.e., the circuit has a hole in it, if you want to think of it that way... I don't think they are initials for anything like "Off" or "On". On 7/25/06, subscriber2list wrote: > > I'm sure you'll get a chuckle out of this question, but here goes ... > > It's been awhile and I've forgotten what the nomenclature "O/I" on > power switches actually stands for ... meaning, I assume "O" is for > "Off and the "I" (Represents what? "In" to mean power is "On"?). I > googled, but found nothing definitively clear. I found "O/I" > indicating "Overload of Current", but that's about it! > > Thanks in advance, > > Bo Dirigo > > P.S. OT for Bryan J, AKA The BS. Always enjoy your posts and "How's > UCF football team going to do this year?" Everything I've read > indicates this could be a real breakout year for them. I'm rooting > for 'em! Take care. > > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support at matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support > -- Justin M. Keyes From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 26 00:22:28 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:22:28 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD buys ATI, is this good or bad -- AMD has a core chipset logic already In-Reply-To: <1153843208.7672.6.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> References: <44C4F10C.50604@sunstatemartialarts.com> <1153834225.3120.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153839017.7672.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153842523.2943.15.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153843208.7672.6.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> Message-ID: <1153887748.2941.2.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 12:00 -0400, Kyle Gonzales wrote: > OR they use the wonderful Broadcom networking chipsets which sadly have > the same issues. Sometimes you get one that works great, other times > not so much... I think you _missed_ my point. The MAC is in the chipset, provided by ATI, nVidia, etc... The PHY is _external_ to the chipset. Most of Broadcom's products are _well_ supported. The problem is not every MAC+PHY combination is supported immediately. > And Intel spends alot of engineering resources to make sure their > network drivers work in Linux. So does nVidia. So do most companies that rely on EDA tools for their core business. > While this might suck for the manufacturers to be forced to use the > approved PHY chip, its does help enterprise customers to know that the > equipment will "just work" out of the box. Agreed. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 26 00:27:20 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:27:20 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT] UCF Football -- WAS: I have a simple question here re: the O/I nomenclature on a power switch ... In-Reply-To: <65380279.20060725123354@bellsouth.net> References: <65380279.20060725123354@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <1153888040.2941.8.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 12:33 -0400, subscriber2list wrote: > P.S. OT for Bryan J, AKA The BS. Always enjoy your posts and "How's > UCF football team going to do this year?" Everything I've read > indicates this could be a real breakout year for them. I'm rooting > for 'em! Take care. Last year was really the "break out year." Nearly the entire starting defense were Freshmen, and half of the offense as well. That's because there had been virtually _no_ recruiting in the last 3 years -- the first 2 because of Mike and the following year because we went 0-11. This year is "hold on, the 2007 recruits are coming!" Literally! Until O'Leary's 10 year, $10M deal, many recruits didn't want to sign because they thought he'd leave. So our recruiting class was just outside the top 50. But now that the deal is signed, we've _already_ got a half-dozen commits for next year! We _could_ have a top 25 recruiting class! Regardless, we still have a good shot at the East Division title again. But I don't know it we'll take the Conference crown this year either. We got a _lot_ of "lucky/last second wins" last year. And we're not in a BCS conference. Then again, the Big East might be a BCS conference, but they suck more than the average quo in C-USA. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From dave at dgnal.net Thu Jul 27 00:17:26 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:17:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] nVidia 7600GT In-Reply-To: <1153634442.2923.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1153634442.2923.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1523.71.252.176.10.1153973846.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> All / Bryan >From theBS' blog: http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2006/02/geforce-6-and-7-series-variants-nuts.html It appears that you don't recommend the 7600GT (Fry's has them for $199 after a $50 rebate). I'm looking to put a new PCIe video card in a AM2 4200+ system (Motherboard: ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe - uses 570SLI chipset - didn't need dual 590SLI performance). According to your blog - you're suggesting to find a NV42 6800GS - better performance for +$30. Is that still an accurate statement or is there an even more recent 'around $200 video card'. Thanks - dave From dave at dgnal.net Thu Jul 27 00:21:57 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:21:57 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] nVidia 7600GT In-Reply-To: <1523.71.252.176.10.1153973846.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1153634442.2923.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1523.71.252.176.10.1153973846.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1554.71.252.176.10.1153974117.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > Is that still an accurate statement or is there an > even more recent 'around $200 video card'. OH...let me express why I liked the 7600GT: 1) Dual video outputs for dual monitors 2) the PNY version included two DVI-to-VGA converters - which I'll need as I'm connecting to some Sony/Dell Trinitron monitors Want to play with the SuSE 10.1 GLX stuff...with dual monitors. Also want to include a ATI All-in-Wonder PCI card (for the occasional VCR video dump to the computer) connected to a third monitor. Any issues? Thanks - dave From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 27 01:46:04 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:46:04 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD Athlon 64 3300+ (2.4/256) now $19.97 ($69.97 - $50 rebate)! In-Reply-To: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1153979164.2929.7.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2006-07-23 at 02:44 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Okay all you Socket-754 owners out there. TigerDirect.COM has a 2.4GHz, > 256KB L2 Athlon 64 (model 3300+) for $29.97! $79.97 - $50 rebate. That > is just an unbelievable price! > It's an OEM processor, no cooling. But damn if this thing isn't a great > replacement for my cheap 1.6GHz, 256KB Sempron 64 (model 2800+, which is > rated higher than it would be against the Athlon 64). > Just FYI ... > http://dealnews.com/deals/AMD-Athlon-64-3300-2-4-GHz-Socket-754-Processor-for-30-after-rebate/126030.html Ack! I should have waited 2-3 days! It's now $10 cheaper! http://dealnews.com/deals/AMD-Athlon-64-3300-2-4-GHz-Socket-754-Processor-for-20-after-rebate/126668.html -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 27 01:52:18 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 01:52:18 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Vidia 7600GT -- good choice for sub-$200, although 7900GT is now $240 In-Reply-To: <1523.71.252.176.10.1153973846.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1153634442.2923.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1523.71.252.176.10.1153973846.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <1153979538.2929.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2006-07-26 at 23:17 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > All / Bryan > From theBS' blog: > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2006/02/geforce-6-and-7-series-variants-nuts.html > It appears that you don't recommend the 7600GT (Fry's has them for $199 > after a $50 rebate). Er, um, it's the 7600G_S_ -- which is not anywhere near as high performing as the 7600G_T_. The 7600G_T_ is actually pretty good compared to the 6800G_S_ (as Damien pointed out to me earlier). http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2717&p=10 > I'm looking to put a new PCIe video card in a AM2 > 4200+ system (Motherboard: ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe - uses 570SLI chipset - > didn't need dual 590SLI performance). > According to your blog - you're suggesting to find a NV42 6800GS - better > performance for +$30. Is that still an accurate statement or is there an > even more recent 'around $200 video card'. The 7600G_T_ is a good buy at ~$180. Of course, the 7900G_T_ is now $240 these days ($280-$40 rebate). So if you want to spent 33% more, you can get about 2x the performance. The 7900G_T_ even bests the 7800GTX -- let alone is a crapload faster than the 7800GT. And the 7800GT is already a good 25%+ faster than the 7600GT. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From tim at mcdonough.net Thu Jul 27 07:55:23 2006 From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 06:55:23 -0500 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD Athlon 64 3300+ (2.4/256) now $19.97 ($69.97 - $50 rebate)! In-Reply-To: <1153979164.2929.7.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153979164.2929.7.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <44C8A9AB.6090803@mcdonough.net> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Ack! I should have waited 2-3 days! It's now $10 cheaper! > http://dealnews.com/deals/AMD-Athlon-64-3300-2-4-GHz-Socket-754-Processor-for-20-after-rebate/126668.html Yes, but if you wait long enough you'll never get anything! The $10 does sweeten the pot even more. I'm being tempted even though I really don't want to upgrade quite yet. -- Tim From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 27 11:06:22 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:06:22 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD Athlon 64 3300+ (2.4/256) now $19.97 ($69.97 - $50 rebate)! In-Reply-To: <44C8A9AB.6090803@mcdonough.net> References: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153979164.2929.7.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <44C8A9AB.6090803@mcdonough.net> Message-ID: <1154012782.2929.20.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 06:55 -0500, Tim McDonough wrote: > Yes, but if you wait long enough you'll never get anything! The $10 > does sweeten the pot even more. I'm being tempted even though I really > don't want to upgrade quite yet. Well, I already have a Socket-754 system with a Sempron 64 2800+ (1.6/256). So this jacks up its MHz by +50% (2.4/256)! -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From lists at brianrose.net Thu Jul 27 18:37:39 2006 From: lists at brianrose.net (Brian Rose) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:37:39 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] NAS Trouble Message-ID: <44C94033.90400@brianrose.net> I recently bought a network storage adapter (Coolmax CN-550) and put in a hard drive. It seems to work well except for windows networking. One Windows XP machine can see the device in the workgroup but when you click on it, I get a "\\Netstorage is not accessable. You might not have permission to use this network resource. Contact the administrator..." error. On my other Windows XP machine, I cannot even browse the workgroup. I get the same message as above, but for the workgroup name. I have a call into tech support for the device, but I was wondering if this could be a setting on my computers that would solve this issue. I'm not a computer admin, although I do impersonate one at home. Thanks in advance for any ideas. From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Jul 27 18:49:08 2006 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:49:08 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD Athlon 64 3300+ (2.4/256) now $19.97 ($69.97 - $50 rebate)! In-Reply-To: <1153979164.2929.7.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1153637097.2923.112.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153979164.2929.7.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200607271849.08798.jasonb@edseek.com> On Thursday 27 July 2006 01:46, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Sun, 2006-07-23 at 02:44 -0400, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > Okay all you Socket-754 owners out there. TigerDirect.COM has a 2.4GHz, > > 256KB L2 Athlon 64 (model 3300+) for $29.97! $79.97 - $50 rebate. That > > is just an unbelievable price! > > It's an OEM processor, no cooling. But damn if this thing isn't a great > > replacement for my cheap 1.6GHz, 256KB Sempron 64 (model 2800+, which is > > rated higher than it would be against the Athlon 64). > > Just FYI ... > > > > http://dealnews.com/deals/AMD-Athlon-64-3300-2-4-GHz-Socket-754-Processor > >-for-30-after-rebate/126030.html > > Ack! I should have waited 2-3 days! It's now $10 cheaper! > http://dealnews.com/deals/AMD-Athlon-64-3300-2-4-GHz-Socket-754-Processor-f >or-20-after-rebate/126668.html Oh, and this appears to be the true rebate link. I guess you do half online now. The linked form at DN is useless. http://www.onrebate.com/OfferDetails.aspx?rebid=5024 -- Jason Boxman http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 28 11:33:57 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:33:57 -0400 Subject: [Pc_Support] NAS Trouble In-Reply-To: <44C94033.90400@brianrose.net> References: <44C94033.90400@brianrose.net> Message-ID: <1154100838.2944.2.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2006-07-27 at 18:37 -0400, Brian Rose wrote: > I recently bought a network storage adapter (Coolmax CN-550) and put in > a hard drive. It seems to work well except for windows networking. > One Windows XP machine can see the device in the workgroup but when you > click on it, I get a "\\Netstorage is not accessable. You might not have > permission to use this network resource. Contact the administrator..." > error. > On my other Windows XP machine, I cannot even browse the workgroup. I > get the same message as above, but for the workgroup name. > I have a call into tech support for the device, but I was wondering if > this could be a setting on my computers that would solve this issue. I'm > not a computer admin, although I do impersonate one at home. > Thanks in advance for any ideas. Your system/user is not being authenticated. Just because you can see the system in the "browser" doesn't mean you have access to it. The first think you should do is read the manual and see what setup/authentication requirements it expects. Some NAS devices require you to use another system for authentication. I'll take a look at the manual tomorrow night. I haven't slept in about 40 hours. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, technical annoyance mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------- The world is in need of solutions. Unfortunately, people seem to be more interested in blindly aligning themselves with one of only two viewponts -- an "us v. them" debate that has nothing to do with finding an actual solution. From dave at dgnal.net Sat Jul 29 05:19:15 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 04:19:15 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <18549.71.252.176.10.1154164755.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> >> I'd really like to setup a system to run SuSE 10.1 GLX....I normally >> have >> a dual-monitor setup, so again - I'm kicked in the teeth that GLX does >> 'do' dual-monitors (unless I do frame buffer sharing and REALLY stretch >> the resolutino to be double-wide). > > Both Red Hat Composite Extension and SuSE's Compiz approaches do > dual-head. On a side-note....if you're looking to do GLX...there's only a LIMITED amount of video cards that are compatible. Here's the list: # Supported ATI cards G 1002:3150 # M24 1P [Radeon Mobility X600] G 1002:4a4d # R420 JM [FireGL X3] G 1002:4e54 # M10 NT [FireGL Mobility T2] G 1002:5460 # M22 [Radeon Mobility M300] G 1002:5b62 # RV370 5B62 [Radeon X600 (PCIE)] G 1002:5b72 # RV380 5B62 [Radeon X600 (PCIE)] # Supported NVIDIA cards G 10de:0092 # GeForce 7800 GT G 10de:0140 # NV43 [GeForce 6600 GT] G 10de:0161 # GeForce 6200 TurboCache(TM) G 10de:0326 # NV34 [GeForce FX 5500] # Supported Intel cards G 8086:2582 # 82915G/GV/910GL Express Chipset Family Graphics Controller G 8086:27a2 # Mobile 945GM/GMS/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller Hope that helps - dave From dave at dgnal.net Sat Jul 29 13:33:08 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:33:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box In-Reply-To: <18549.71.252.176.10.1154164755.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> References: <1152158125.3555.180.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <2068.71.252.176.10.1152161429.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1152161552.3555.204.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <18549.71.252.176.10.1154164755.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <9050.71.252.176.10.1154194388.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > On a side-note....if you're looking to do GLX...there's only a LIMITED > amount of video cards that are compatible. Here's the list: Opps...take that back (as I'm not running the GLX window manager on my nVidia 7600GT)...that was an old list....here's an updated list (and it's source: http://en.opensuse.org/Xgl) : * Intel All intel graphics chips need the newest packages of Xgl and compiz for running flawlessly. o i915, i945 Accelerated XVideo is broken on these cards. See Troubleshooting. * NVidia All NVIDIA cards need the proprietary driver for running Xgl. Currently you will need to uninstall and reinstall the xgl rpm after installing the proprietary NVidia driver. o GeForce 4xxx series XVideo is not accelerated on these cards. o GeForce FX 5xxx series, Quadro FX series Accelerated XVideo is hitting a slow path on these cards, it is under investigation. o GeForce 6xxx series o GeForce 7xxx series * ATI o Mobility Radeon 9700 SE: Xgl running with proprietary fglrx driver 8.23 o Radeon X300: Xgl running with proprietary fglrx driver 8.23 From dave at dgnal.net Sat Jul 29 13:44:22 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:44:22 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Great, budget, 'Best Practices' box Message-ID: <20702.71.252.176.10.1154195062.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > On a side-note....if you're looking to do GLX...there's only a LIMITED amount of video cards that are compatible. Here's the list: Opps...take that back (as I'm not running the GLX window manager on my nVidia 7600GT)...that was an old list....here's an updated list (and it's source: http://en.opensuse.org/Xgl) : * Intel All intel graphics chips need the newest packages of Xgl and compiz for running flawlessly. o i915, i945 Accelerated XVideo is broken on these cards. See Troubleshooting. * NVidia All NVIDIA cards need the proprietary driver for running Xgl. Currently you will need to uninstall and reinstall the xgl rpm after installing the proprietary NVidia driver. o GeForce 4xxx series XVideo is not accelerated on these cards. o GeForce FX 5xxx series, Quadro FX series Accelerated XVideo is hitting a slow path on these cards, it is under investigation. o GeForce 6xxx series o GeForce 7xxx series * ATI o Mobility Radeon 9700 SE: Xgl running with proprietary fglrx driver 8.23 o Radeon X300: Xgl running with proprietary fglrx driver 8.23 From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 29 16:16:05 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 13:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] WARNING: ZipZoomFly playing games on Athlon 64 x2 sales ... Message-ID: <20060729201605.29596.qmail@web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> FYI, with most sites not offering the Athlon 64 x2 at the discounted price or stating a shipping date of much later, I found ZipZoomFly was $260 for the 4600+ and said "in stock" -- even if not the other models. So I went ahead and bought it for $260 on Monday. On Tuesday they said it was "packed" and ready-to-ship and I could not cancel. That's when they started showing the x2 3800+ and x2 4200+ models for $154 and $185, respectively. I remember this because I considered canceling it because fo the $185 price on the x2 4200+ model. On Friday, I just got the following e-mail. I remember checking all throughout the week on various models -- including the x2 4600+ -- and they said "in stock." This is *NOT* how you keep customers -- by lying about status and other things. Even worse, they did *NOT* quote the correct product in the following e-mail -- they quoted me the x4 4400+ when I bought the x2 4600+! This is my first time buying from ZipZoomFly.COM. Anyone else have similar, "oh, yes, confirm, confirm --um, now we'll get back to you" experiences with them? I don't expect a deal, but when someone says it's in stock then won't let you cancel it because it is "packaged," that's playing games. --- backorder wrote: > Subject: Your Item#80726-r > Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:43:41 -0700 > From: "backorder" > To: undisclosed-recipients:; > > Dear Customer, > > The following ordered item is currently on back order. We > apologize. > > http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80726-R > > At this time, the estimated time of arrival (E.T.A.) is 7/31/06. Do > note that this E.T.A. is for reference only as we will ship out > this item as soon as it is available. If the ETA changes, we will > notify you of the new date. > We also do understand that this item may have been listed as in > stock at the time of purchase but unfortunately we have ran out of > stock. If your order is showing status of packed your order is in > the warehouse awaiting arrival of this item for shipment. If your > order is showing a tracking number for your order please make sure > to try tracking your package. If you are unable to track your > package we are waiting for shipment of this item to ship your > order. Unfortunately the tracking number was automatically updated > in your account. > > Please note, if we do not expect the product to be back in stock > within 2 weeks we will automatically cancel the item from your > order and inform you of this via email. Again, we apologize for > any inconvenience in which this may have caused. > > Thank you for > your patience. > > Sincerely, > ZipZoomFly.com > (510) 739-1890 x2200 -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Americans don't get upset because citizens in some foreign nations can burn the American flag -- Americans get upset because citizens in those same nations can't burn their own From dave at dgnal.net Sat Jul 29 17:20:25 2006 From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:20:25 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] WARNING: ZipZoomFly playing games on Athlon 64 x2 sales ... In-Reply-To: <20060729201605.29596.qmail@web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060729201605.29596.qmail@web32912.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1993.71.252.176.10.1154208025.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> > FYI, with most sites not offering the Athlon 64 x2 at the discounted > price or stating a shipping date of much later Bryan - you need to listen to your own advice! On 7/26/06 - hit NewEgg.com and found they had the A64 AM2-X2 4200+ for $199 (which was a bit more than MWave.com - but they didn't have the memory that I/the board needed) - was hoping to utilize MWave's "build/test for $9" as insurance...but that's not the reason for this email. Ordered it on 7/26/06 (Wednesday) - requested two-day UPS shipment for Friday/by-the-weekend delivery....then read that it could take 1-2 days for processing...BUT..they did ship that afternoon and I got it on Friday (7-28-06). I gotta say your advice about NewEgg.com (and their reviews) was great. dave From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 29 20:15:38 2006 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:15:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Pc_Support] WARNING: ZipZoomFly playing games on Athlon 64 x2 sales ... In-Reply-To: <1993.71.252.176.10.1154208025.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> Message-ID: <20060730001538.44934.qmail@web32915.mail.mud.yahoo.com> David Simmons wrote: > Bryan - you need to listen to your own advice! On 7/26/06 - hit > NewEgg.com and found they had the A64 AM2-X2 4200+ for $199 (which > was a bit more than MWave.com - but they didn't have the memory that > I/the board needed) - was hoping to utilize MWave's "build/test for > $9" as insurance...but that's not the reason for this email. Hey man, I've been waiting on an x2 upgrade for awhile. > Ordered it on 7/26/06 (Wednesday) - requested two-day UPS shipment > for Friday/by-the-weekend delivery....then read that it could take > 1-2 days for processing...BUT..they did ship that afternoon and I > got it on Friday (7-28-06). > I gotta say your advice about NewEgg.com (and their reviews) was > great. Well, they didn't have it when I ordered. They still wanted $505 for the x2 4600+ last Monday. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Americans don't get upset because citizens in some foreign nations can burn the American flag -- Americans get upset because citizens in those same nations can't burn their own From wam at HiWAAY.net Mon Jul 31 21:29:06 2006 From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III) Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:29:06 -0500 Subject: AMD / Intel CPU's Was: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD's L1 cache is 4x larger than Intel's In-Reply-To: <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> References: <20060716170859.50864.qmail@web32908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1153492860.10798.2.camel@x2.ultrasound.home> <1153580589.2926.53.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1153581601.2926.68.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> <1758.71.252.176.10.1153622045.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net> <1153621400.2923.24.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <44CEAE62.9050206@HiWAAY.net> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 21:34 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > > >>All this talk...was hoping to see the AMD X2 prices fall to around 50% - >>but a quick search of NewEgg.com doesn't show that?! Was the 'leaked >>news' just hype? Am I missing something? >> >> > >Yes. The AMD price cuts hit Monday, July 23rd. ;-> > >Understand Intel's new Core 2 (not the Core in notebooks, but the Core 2 >_desktop_ processor) will _not_ officially announced until July 23rd. >And even then most retail availability (i.e., for non-Tier 1 PC OEMs) >will _not_ be until mid-August. > > > > Was this price cut supposed to includes S939 opterons as well ? TIA .... -- William A. Mahaffey III ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war ever devised by man." -- Gen. George S. Patton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20060731/3bc0f2ba/attachment.html