From brianashelist at yahoo.com Fri Jul 1 11:06:18 2005 From: brianashelist at yahoo.com (Brian Ashe) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <42BF0FB8.3020508@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <20050701150618.34249.qmail@web20022.mail.yahoo.com> VLC is the first thing that comes to mind--the server runs on anything, the player runs on anything, and handles just about every form of video known to man. http://www.videolan.org However, I've never seen the server portion work. Tried to get it going a couple times but couldn't. Darwin Streaming Server, aka QuickTime Streaming Server, is another possibility. Not sure what it would take to get it working with a plain-vanilla capture card--I've only used it with FireWire input devices and static files. However, with my TiVo feeding into a DV bridge, it works fine. http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/streaming/ http://www.apple.com/quicktime/streamingserver/ It can create MPEG-4 streams so it should work with the player and platform of your choice. It is something that Apple has open-sourced (mmm, love verbing nouns) and runs on Win, Mac, and Lin. If closed-source is OK with you, I've played with and been very happy with SnapStream/BeyondTV. http://www.snapstream.com/download/ $70 (hmm, used to be $30, IIRC) and the only reason I didn't buy it was because I have DirecTV, so the tuner in my capture card was made pretty worthless when I dropped cable. It's very easy to use, though. Oh yeah, how could I forget Myth? http://www.mythtv.org Designed from the ground up to have a backend box that captures (and optionally transcodes) and stream to 'frontend' boxes. It's a big, all-encompassing, do-it-all project, so it might take a while to get your head around. If I can find some rabbit ears and a 300-to-75-ohm converter, I might try to put one together at tomorrow's 'fest. See also KnoppoMyth: http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html http://www.eff.org/broadcastflag/ --- Damien McKenna wrote: > Anyone have suggestions for a program to stream > video from one computer > to another? I'd like to be able to stream video > from our desktop in a > back room to a laptop in the living room (via > 100mbit ethernet). Any > suggestions? Thanks. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 1 11:17:59 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours of messing I got VLC to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in terms of user friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the files via SMB or something, that'll be much less hassle for me. Thanks anyway. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 1 11:33:26 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? Message-ID: <17990118.1120232006657.JavaMail.root@wamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours of messing I got VLC > to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in terms of user > friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the files via SMB or > something, that'll be much less hassle for me. > Thanks anyway. The problem with SMB is that it is a TCP/IP process, not UDP/IP. That could be a exponentially compounding performance issue when it comes to wide-spread distribution. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 1 11:44:25 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A57@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > The problem with SMB is that it is a TCP/IP process, not UDP/IP. > That could be a exponentially compounding performance issue > when it comes to wide-spread distribution. For me streaming movies from our desktop in the back room to a laptop in the living room, I'm not that concerned about it :) -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 1 12:02:17 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? Message-ID: <18658437.1120233737810.JavaMail.root@wamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > For me streaming movies from our desktop in the back room to a laptop in > the living room, I'm not that concerned about it :) For 1-2 systems over LAN speed, no, it shouldn't matter too much. But be sure to use a quality CardBus card or the NIC built-in on a miniPCI. And if you're running Linux, consider NFS instead of SMB. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From jasonb at edseek.com Fri Jul 1 14:13:03 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <18658437.1120233737810.JavaMail.root@wamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <18658437.1120233737810.JavaMail.root@wamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507011413.03791.jasonb@edseek.com> On Friday 01 July 2005 12:02, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > From: Damien McKenna > > > For me streaming movies from our desktop in the back room to a laptop in > > the living room, I'm not that concerned about it :) > > For 1-2 systems over LAN speed, no, it shouldn't matter too much. > But be sure to use a quality CardBus card or the NIC built-in on a miniPCI. > And if you're running Linux, consider NFS instead of SMB. Anyone ever mess with deploying OpenAFS? From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 2 02:06:58 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Chenming 118 Series 11"x9"x14" MicroATX "box" Message-ID: <1120284418.4594.43.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Okay, I got tired of my cheap MicroATX case as more crappy plastic broke off. I was also looking to run 2 hard drives at once and that wasn't going to happen with this sucker. For more on that case, it's high-end MicroATX PS and some of the other MicroATX cases I had looked at, see these prior posts: http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-April/000287.html http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-April/000288.html http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-April/000289.html As I had mentioned, I had looked at the Antec Aira, but it uses a proprietary/non-standard power supply. I had hoped that someone had more of a "boxed small form-factor" case with a MicroATX PS, but I never found one. But now I think I've found a good alternative. The Chenming 118 Series ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125485 There are several resellers selling all sorts of "mod" kits for this. Frankly, I went with the "stock black aluminum" version with the standard 300W PS, and I'm glad I did. - Form-factor: 11" x 9" x 14" It's not a small box at all, and if you really want small, you'll want to look at one of the proprietary/non-standard form-factors/"barebones" out there. I wouldn't even bother with the Antec Aira, I'd go for this instead, which is a bit bigger, but well worth it. Why? Well, despite it's size, it takes a _full_ ATX power supply -- not MicroATX, _full_ ATX. That's a really nice option if you need a powerful CPU -- maybe you're getting the latest Athlon64 x2 and GeForce 6800 Ultra or 7800GTX, each which will eat up 100W. Now you don't have to balance power against power, you can have both (as long as your mainboard is still MicroATX). And it's not so cramped, yet still smaller. - Weight: Sub-10lbs. And before you dismiss it as "too heavy," it's aluminum and sub-10lbs., even a tad lighter than the "smaller" 12" x 5.5" x 12" steel case I had before. Fully loaded, it's still quite portable -- far more so than any ATX case I've had, and no worse than most MicroATX. - Sturdiness: Better than expected (except for handle) Sure, aluminum is lighter than steel and bends. If you twist around the 3-plane (side-top-side) cover, that's not good. But despite the weight, it still has _2_ solid "beams" on each side of the box, front to back. One is on its own (on the right facing the front), the other underneath the mid-shelf (on the left facing the front). The box could _almost_ take my weight sitting on it when covered (although the top would still "dent in"). The handle seemed like a skimp though. It's plastic. While hard, I wouldn't "jerk" or "yank" it when it's fully loaded. But at least it _is_ set in the frame well. - Space/Expansion/Drives: Very well done, but not too, too cramped The box is really "split" into an "upper" and a "lower" half, a good ~2.5U (~4.25-4.50") for each section. The bottom is the MicroATX mainboard, 4 expansion slots on the left (facing it from front), CPU on the right. It easily took the stock AMD Cooler Master fansink, and could have probably taken the extra 0.5" tall aftermarket one I was going to use (but decided not to bother pulling the other one off which seems to be doing well. The top is the PS (back-left facing it from the front), drives (front- center exposed) and 120mm fan area (back-right, facing it from the front). The drive options are most excellent for the form-factor: exposed: 2 x 5.25", 1 x 3.5" hidden: 2 x 3.5" (front-right, facing it from the front). It's clear that they figured they might as well get in a full ATX PS and 2nd 5.25" bay instead of cutting another 1" off the height -- probably a good idea as an 8" wouldn't make any difference versus 9". The 2 x 3.5" drives are hidden on the right, although they could have easily done another 2 on the left too. I'm sure they didn't, to give you more room to move cabling on the left, typically where most of the mainboard connectors are anyway -- from the Power/HD/Reset to ATA, USB, etc... BTW, the depth is even good enough so you can fit a removable drive bay in one of the 5.25" bays (at least with the stock PS). In fact, that's what I did myself, so I can thrown in an old PATA as necessary for training/multiple configurations/etc... - Cooling Now here's the best part, not only do you have the 80mm on the P.S. but a nice 120mm on the back-right (facing it from the front) that just draws out the hot air from the CPU, as well as the internal 2 x 3.5" HD that are in the front-right. I had 2 high capacity (>>200GB), 7200rpm SATA hard drives stacked up against each other on their sides and it _never_ exceeded 30 degrees C at the drives. This thing is 20 degrees C _lower_ ambient/CPU/HDs/video-card than the other, crappy one (with 3 x 40mm plus a 92mm radial too!). The 120x120x25mm fan is not too loud, but it pushes enough air to be audible more than some might like. A 120x120x38mm fan as a slower RPM might be better and slightly quieter, but it's a perfect balance. But to be fair, I didn't get "adequate" ventilation on the other case _until_ I put in a 92mm radial slot fan, and the dual-BB 40mm case fans weren't exactly "quiet" either. It should also be noted that in this "desktop box," the expansion cards are "straight upward" so heat rises and doesn't "trapped under" either itself, or (in the case of a "flipped ATX"), the PCB of the card above it. The PS is directly above the card area, so a PS with an intake would really help. The stock one isn't, just the outtake, but it still seems to cool well enough. - Power Supply: 24+4-pin ATX2.0+P4, only 300W, but split +12V Yes, you heard correctly, that is a _split_ +12V. Only 300W, but it is actually capable of quite a bit more. 145W max on the 3.3+5V (17A+25A, respectively), 180W on the split-12V (10A+15A, respectively). Only 1 SATA power connector, although it _does_ have the 3.3V line as well as 5 +12V that a Molex does. My Foxconn nForce4 standard MicroATX mainboard took the 24+4-pin ATX2.0 +P4, and then I used each of the Molex cables to feed in the 6-pin on the video card. Seems to be quite stable at UT running for 30 minutes intensely. I have a "Winchester" sub-40W Athlon 64 3200+ (3000+ and 3500+ "Winchesters" are also available), so the P.S. could handle it and the 100W guzzling GeForce 6800GT. If you go with an Athlon 64 3700+, FX or one of the new x2 that require 60-110W, you'll probably want another P.S. But that's where this case is great! It can take a _standard_, _full_ ATX! - Cables, Front Panel, etc... --- very nicely done ... One thing I really get sick of is the "spliced cables" of audio, FireWire and USB connectors. There's pretty much 1 "agreed upon" standard that has stuck now, and the Chenming just bundles those connectors for it -- at least for MicroATX (as well as the mainboard standoffs, as MicroATX is always 9.6" x 9.6" and fixed mounts). It worked out great for my Foxconn nForce4 MicroATX mainboard, taking me 30 seconds to plug in the audio, USB and FireWire, instead of 15 _minutes_ like on the prior one. The power, speaker, LED, HD and reset were still separate, but easy to hook up right in the left-front of the mainboard (and nothing blocking me above -- that's fine, I don't need 2 more HDs blocking the way). There are also 2 temperature displays -- one for CPU, another for HD. They are thin thermaresistor types you stick in-between the CPU fans and between hard drives (or tape to the top). I found the HD to be very accurate if you place right above the spindle. I never exceed 30 degrees C on either drive. The CPU was a bit more difficult, as it was hard to get in-between the very narrow spaces between fins, and I'm closer to the fan above the sink, that the bottom of the sink (reading probably 8-10 degrees C below what the mainboard thermaresistor will say). - Negatives: Open "box" means more cables to tie off ... Any negatives? Maybe just the "box" design means you have to tie your cabling better. Especially with your drives and cables being "above" the CPU fan. When I first powered on the system, my CPU went over 50 degrees C after 5 minutes of UT2004. I quickly discovered it was because the power cable of the 120mm fan was "hanging down into" the CPU fan and it wasn't spinning. Still, if the CPU was only just over 50 degrees C (in the mainboard thermaresistor monitoring), that means it _is_ pulling enough heat off of just the sink without the fan running. But since taking it off, I'm well below 40 degree C (mainboard thermaresistor) after 30 minutes of UT2004, and 25-26 degrees C mid-sink on the LCD on front when the fan is running and I'm just typing stuff like this e-mail. - Bottom Line Given the portability, cooling and design tri-fecta, this is the only case I'm going to use for MicroATX, and I'm going to try to stick with MicroATX when I can. I mean, "shared PCI" is really a PITA anyway, and most things come on-board, leaving a need to only 1-2 PCI slots for other stuff anyway. If I need mega-I/O, I'm going to go PCI-X or 4+ PCIe slots (possibly nVidia Pro and dual-processor anyway) so I'll save that for Extended ATX / SSI EEB form-factors. So I'm really not seeming much of a need for a "full ATX" case ever again, especially when I can use a "full ATX PS" with a MicroATX mainboard. So much so that I think I'm going to convert my wife's current Athlon XP 2600+, GeForce 6800GT AGP on a Socket-462 KT266 chipset ATX mainboard in a big Antec SX1000 series ATX case to one of these cases with a Socket-462 MicroATX mainboard. Especially when Socket-462 MicroATX mainboards are so cheap, and I can probably convert for $100 (and still use her 400W if this 300W won't cut it). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From whittake at sbaflorida.com Sat Jul 2 02:26:03 2005 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <42C6337B.1050001@sbaflorida.com> I noted that some place along this thread someone mentioned Firewire. My AMD 64 mobo has a firewire outlet on the back panel. I recently purchased a Sony VCR/DVD Recorder and Player that seems to be state-of-the-art, at least my sota . I am sick and tired of the rather mundane Brighthouse TV offerings so I am hoping to dowload some good movies, etc on DVDs. I assume that I can capture the Video streaming you all are talking about on DVD, off of Firewire? What Firewire components do I need in order to do this? I am in the midst of ordering a Plumax 350C2-ETB which is an enclosure that handles 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 inch drives but this is directed at the computer side of my home domain. Are there any suggestions in regards to the above requirements and/or any additional Firewire devices that will make my life more enjoyable?????' Homer Whittaker Damien McKenna wrote: >I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours of messing I got VLC >to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in terms of user >friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the files via SMB or >something, that'll be much less hassle for me. > >Thanks anyway. > > > From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 2 12:52:40 2005 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Wise Linux User) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <42C6337B.1050001@sbaflorida.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <42C6337B.1050001@sbaflorida.com> Message-ID: <200507021252.41136.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> On Saturday 02 July 2005 02:26 am, Homer Whittaker wrote: > I noted that some place along this thread someone mentioned Firewire. My > AMD 64 mobo has a firewire outlet on the back panel. > > I recently purchased a Sony VCR/DVD Recorder and Player that seems to be > state-of-the-art, at least my sota . I am sick and tired of the rather > mundane Brighthouse TV offerings so I am hoping to dowload some good > movies, etc on DVDs. > > I assume that I can capture the Video streaming you all are talking > about on DVD, off of Firewire? > What Firewire components do I need in order to do this? I am in the > midst of ordering a Plumax 350C2-ETB which is an enclosure that handles > 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 inch drives but this is directed at the computer side of > my home domain. > > Are there any suggestions in regards to the above requirements and/or > any additional Firewire devices that will make my life more enjoyable?????' > > Homer Whittaker > > Damien McKenna wrote: > >I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours of messing I got VLC > >to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in terms of user > >friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the files via SMB or > >something, that'll be much less hassle for me. > > > >Thanks anyway. > > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support@matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support demotv is a project to send TV/video over RSS. Not intended to be 'streaming video', intended to be Live Feed of any TV or Video. Python based. on the CVS. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/demotv/tv/platform/linux/ mailing list: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=136141 Although Sourceforge.net reports no software files, that is because, Trove has none, being that Demotv 0.1111 release is only on CVS. The project is only 11.73% forward in it's projected build! But, it is reported on the mailing list to be working. Like Tivo, and Freevo, it is being 'built' in Linux, but, will run cross platform. -- Check these out: http://knopper.net/knoppix http://livecdlist.com http://distrowatch.com http://yolinux.com http://safeharbordome.com From brianashelist at yahoo.com Sat Jul 2 14:57:26 2005 From: brianashelist at yahoo.com (Brian Ashe) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> Ah. I had it in my head you wanted to do this with "live" broadcasts somehow. Yeah, if you're just talking about playing a directory full of MPEGs or AVIs or whatever, the best thing to do is just connect to a file server through the protocol of your choice and play them with the player of your choice. Plain-vanilla 10/100 is fast enough to play just about anything. I have some ripped DVDs (not compressed, just copied the VIDEO_TS folder) on one machine that I can play on another, so that's about as large of a file as you'll ever run into. Just do the math--if a 2 hour movie is stored on an 8 GB DVD, all you need to do is move 4 GB per hour, or 1 GB in 15 minutes. I've never had any trouble achieving that speed over any type of 10/100--SMB, AFP, whatever. [later] OK, just did a little test. I copied a 600MB .tgz via SCP from a Mac laptop to a file server and it took about 4 minutes, so that's 1 GB in about 7 minutes--twice as fast as you'll ever need, unless you start getting into high-def. --- Damien McKenna wrote: > I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours > of messing I got VLC > to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in > terms of user > friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the > files via SMB or > something, that'll be much less hassle for me. ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 2 15:37:31 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1120333051.4570.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-02 at 11:57 -0700, Brian Ashe wrote: > I copied a 600MB .tgz via SCP from a Mac > laptop to a file server and it took about 4 minutes, > so that's 1 GB in about 7 minutes--twice as fast as > you'll ever need, unless you start getting into > high-def. The problem isn't bandwidth. It's when you just barely don't meet it just once during playback. Then you get a cascade effect that kills it. Which is why non-session streaming protocol is preferred. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Sat Jul 2 15:46:19 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <1120333051.4570.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> <1120333051.4570.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507021546.19398.jasonb@edseek.com> On Saturday 02 July 2005 15:37, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The problem isn't bandwidth. > It's when you just barely don't meet it just once during playback. > Then you get a cascade effect that kills it. > Which is why non-session streaming protocol is preferred. Buffering would help some? -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 2 15:52:05 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <200507021546.19398.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> <1120333051.4570.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507021546.19398.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1120333925.4570.11.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-02 at 15:46 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Buffering would help some? Very much so. Make your buffer large enough to withhold any stall. If you stall, it's all up to the protocol. TCP/IP will kill every chance of recovery unless you really have a major bandwidth differential. UDP/IP helps on the overhead, but can also cause just as many issues (especially if your block size is much bigger than your frame size). You typically want to use either an ICMP-like, or a higher-level UDP/IP that doesn't have any error checking or response (e.g., even NFS has XDR, which does exactly that). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From whittake at sbaflorida.com Sat Jul 2 20:33:19 2005 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD 64 DVD / Debian or Suse -- GSA-4613 = $50 In-Reply-To: <1119823648.5863.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678911@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1119645004.6276.23.camel@suse.something.com> <42BCAD98.50006@mc-kenna.com> <1119823648.5863.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42C7324F.8050700@sbaflorida.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >On Fri, 2005-06-24 at 21:04 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > > >>I'm talking about the media and technology as a whole. If you have to >>pay extra for them over a non-DL drive >> >> > >You don't. The LG Electronics GSA-4163 is $50 today. >For that, you get: > >Write-Once: >- CD-R 40x >- DVD-R 8x >- DVD+R 16x (CAV) >- DVD+R-DL 4x (CAV) > >Rewrite: >- CD-RW 16x (CLV) >- DVD-RAM 5x (CLV) >- DVD-RW 6x (CLV) >- CD-RW 24x (CAV) >- DVD+RW 8x (CAV) > > > >>*and* the media is substantially more expensive (you can get 100 >>DVD-R discs for $50 = $0.50 each vs $3 for DL) then it doesn't make >>it worth it. >> >> > >Then just buy the drive now. > > > >>Then again, I didn't realize they'd gotten to 8x on DL yet. >> >> >Hmmm, I wasn't aware either. >Must be only in brand new drives. > > > > I just purchased a Toshiba SD-R5372 16X DVD for 39.xx from mwave. Is this 16x the same measurement as the 8X you are talking about? Homer Whittaker * 5X DVD+R DL Write * 16X DVD+R Write * 6X DVD-RW Write * * 8X DVD+RW Write* * 16X DVD-R Write Capable* * 16X DVD-ROM Read * 12X DVD+/-R Read * 8X DVD+R DL Read * 6X DVD+/-RW Read * 2X DVD-RAM Read * 48X CD-R Write * 10X CD-RW Write HS * 24X CD-RW Write US * 48X CD-ROM/R Read * 24X CD-RW Read * Horizontal or Vertical Mount * External Dimensions (W x H x D): o 146mm x 41.5mm x 189.5mm * MTBF 100,000 hours * Weight: 1.0 kg * Click for Warranty Information * Click for SD-R5372 Kit Information * Free firmware upgrade available that boost DVD-R write speed from 12X to 16X, DVD+RW write speed from 4X to 8X and DVD-RW write speed from 4X to 6X. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 4 12:14:03 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Go Software may bring back lawsuit against Microsoft ... Message-ID: <1120493643.4569.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> I had followed this a long time ago when Go first started selling people on the idea of pen computing. But from what I understood, it wasn't just that Microsoft killed their market, but they stole ideas for Windows CE, even though they were under a NDA not to until they had a license (which they never did). http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/07/04/ms_go_anti-trust_lawsuit/ -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 4 13:52:30 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Chenming 118 Series 11"x9"x14" MicroATX "box" -- Aspire X-QPack ... In-Reply-To: <1120284418.4594.43.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120284418.4594.43.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1120499550.4569.40.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-02 at 01:06 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The Chenming 118 Series ... > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125485 > There are several resellers selling all sorts of "mod" kits for this. > Frankly, I went with the "stock black aluminum" version with the > standard 300W PS, and I'm glad I did. As I mentioned, several resellers are selling all sorts of "mod" kits for this. One of them is the Aspire X-QPack: http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2464 I had seen it prior and decided to go with the stock Chenming 118. Why? Several things, one being the EMI/cover issues and other being the power supply. I could care less about the Windows, and it will only hurt the overall case stability, EMI protection and EMF generation. The power supply is even more interesting. It's so-called 420W is an ATX 1.0 with a 20-pin connector + 4-pin P4, while the Chenming is a 300W, ATX 2.0 with a 24-pint connector (convertible to 20-pin) + 4-pin P4. The ratings are even more of a shock. Both the Chenming ATX2.0-300W and the Aspire ATX1.0-420W are rated for 25A on the +5V. The Aspire edges out the Chenming on +3.3V with 20A to 17A, but the +12V is only a _single_ 20A +12V line for the Aspire, while the Chenming has a split +15A and +10V on its two +12V lines, the nice, added, full ATX 2.0 standards-compliant bonus of an _true_ ATX 2.0 power supply. This is why I went with the Chenming, and why it's so-called "measly 300W" handles my GeForce 6800GT just fine alongside the CPU and 3 drives in it. I definitely would _not_ buy the Aspire for the P.S. (let alone for an ATX 2.0 mainboard, even one that is ATX 1.0 "tolerant"), and buy another ATX 2.0 compliant power supply with dual (or even triple) +12V if I really needed it. On the newer PCI-Express MicroATX mainboards, the video card can suck up to 75+W from the mainboard itself (better than all except the top-of- the-line AGP Pro 50-75W). So having an ATX 2.0 mainboard and power supply is the most stable setup IMHO, which is why I went with my Foxconn mainboard and, later, the Chenming 118. But if you still like the look of the Aspire, especially with an older ATX 1.0 MicroATX mainboard, go for it. But if you go with a new, PCIe solution, you'll probably want to replace the P.S. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 4 20:42:21 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Little reason to buy less than a GeForce 6000 series ... Message-ID: <1120524141.4770.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> I have noticed the GeForce 6200 128MB cards for AGP are now under $75 mail-order, and even CompUSA had one for $129 - $30 mail-in this past weekend (at least in St. Louis). As such, there's virtually no reason to settle for a really poor GeForce FX5200, 5500 or 5700LE for similar prices, even if some of the models have 256MB (not worth it at all). There is no "TurboCache" AGP model, so any 128MB card will be a true 128MB card. Just wanted to point this out, in case people are still looking at the older FX series of cards. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 5 12:26:31 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Is anyone using OOo v2 builds in production settings? I'm in charge of creating the new OS build for our new workstations at work and I'm looking to standardize on many OSS tools, mainly Firefox and OOo. Because OOo v2 isn't finished yet I'm a little leery of using it, but I'd sure like to use something other than the Office 97 they currently use. I'm tempted to stick with O97 for now and wait, but going with OOo v2 from the start would be better again. Also, has anyone tried forcing OOo v2 to MS file formats by default? Is it even possible? Any comments or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 12:38:40 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? Message-ID: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > Is anyone using OOo v2 builds in production settings? I've actually been using it since early May. I've been vastly impressed with the capabilities in even the "beta." And, BTW, I'm running on Linux/x86_64 with *0* issues. > I'm in charge of creating the new OS build for our new workstations > at work and I'm looking to standardize on many OSS tools, mainly > Firefox and OOo. Because OOo v2 isn't finished yet I'm a little leery > of using it, but I'd sure like to use something other than the Office 97 > they currently use. Well, I can't vouche for OOo v2 on Windows, but I have to assume it actually gets more attention than Linux, and the Linux version is most excellent at this point (but assumptions are not always the way to go, I have to admit that). > I'm tempted to stick with O97 for now and wait, but going with OOo > v2 from the start would be better again. Why not install both? At this point, you're right, there is little use to put OOo 1.1.x on the systems. So go ahead and install OOo 1.9.x. But also put MS Word 97 on the systems "just in case" there is an issue with reading/writing a file. > Also, has anyone tried forcing OOo v2 to MS file formats by default? I would recommend _heavily_against_ doing this. There is really _no_ _point_ in running OOo if you're going to do this. The problem with MS Office isn't the price, it's the document longevity. So what point is there in running OOo if you're just going to store the documents in a Hostageware format that may not be well supported in the future? You want all new document generation to be in a Freedomware/ Standardware format, and not a Hostageware one. If your users need to exchange, they can export/save-as to DOC 8, 9 and 10 (97, 2000 and XP, respectively). You can _guarantee_ that your ODT (fka SXW) and other OOo formats will be available for full editing capability years form now -- you can_not_ guarantee that with DOC 8-10 (or anything pre-DOC11/XML, assuming Microsoft documents all their schema). > Is it even possible? Yes, it is in OOo 1.1.x, and I thought OOo 1.9.x/2.x as well, but I haven't personally tried with the latter. > Any comments or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks. If you're going to deploy OOo, deploy OOo. Don't make it a headache by just saving back into a Hostageware format, you're just going to cause your company _more_ headache. I.e., you might as well not even bother with OOo if you save to DOC. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 5 13:01:33 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB5@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Thanks for your reply, Bryan. > > Is anyone using OOo v2 builds in production settings? > > I've actually been using it since early May. I've been > vastly impressed with the capabilities in even the "beta." Excellent. Have they fixed the problem with pasting in images from the clipboard whereby the pasted image didn't get saved in the file? That was a show-stopper back when I tried some early builds in March-ish. > I.e., you might as well not even bother with OOo if you save to DOC. I'd love to migrate the entire company to OOo/Oasys files but I'm not sure this is the right time to fight that battle. I had figured that giving the service reps some better software than the 9-year-old Office 97 would give us a step in the right direction, then once management saw how the software worked well introduce them to the concept of using the improved file format for internal documents. It would save us a fortune long-term, and only create minor headaches along the way with either new or forgetful employees. I should also mention that the group of users that would be affected by this is our customer support department of ten people. The majority of them are not very technical so ease of use is a major factor - hence my interest in OOo v2 versus v1 (v2 is easier to use). Along with OOo each machine will also have Microsoft Outlook 2000 installed as the email client, I had originally asked if they'd be willing to upgrade to Office 2003 but they weren't willing to spend money on that right now. Along with the 10 support people there are about another ten others in the company that do business support & development of various kinds. I intend using Acronis Snap Deploy to deploy the OS installations to the individual workstations, I'm evaluating it at the moment but it looks like it will do what I need, and is cheaper & easier to use than Norton Ghost. Anyone know of a good manager-accessible article that explains the rationale for migrating to OOo in the first place? Something like that would be a major help with my plans. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 5 13:37:48 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Enterprise-level installation of Firefox & profiles? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB7@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Has anyone deployed Firefox in an enterprise setting? I'm looking to do that at work (yes, along with OOo) and have a few questions: * What is the current status with Firefox and roaming profiles? We're going to be using roaming profiles for our user accounts. The notes in bugzilla are a little confusing. Also, what's the best way to set defaults for configuration options, boomarks, etc? Actually, I've just found http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox:1.5_Institutional_Deployment so anyone have any further experiences? Thanks. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 5 13:56:36 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB5@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB5@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1120586196.7018.47.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 13:01 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Excellent. > Have they fixed the problem with pasting in images from the clipboard > whereby the pasted image didn't get saved in the file? That was a > show-stopper back when I tried some early builds in March-ish. Don't know, I didn't adopt it until May. I'm also using Linux, so that's clearly an issue where the codebases differ between Linux and Windows. > I'd love to migrate the entire company to OOo/Oasys files but I'm not > sure this is the right time to fight that battle. Then I honestly don't see why you'd go OOo then? The "cost" of MS Office has _never_ been the software, but the loss of "investment" in documents that are 3+ years old and can no longer be edited verbatim, if at all. Figure $400 for a typical MS Office, spread over, say, 2 years. $200/year "cost" for the company in the license. Now figure just the typical clerk at a measly $10/hour -- a very _conservative_ rate -- who puts 25% of his/her work into creating documents -- another _very_conservative_ rate. Now figure just 25% -- yet another very _conservative_ estimate 25% of that contend is lost when it is retrieved at a latter date. Over 2 years, that is a cost of $20,000 * 0.25 * 0.25 * 2 = $2,500! And that is a "best case scenario"! This is typically due to binary data alignment of MS Word's save routines and changes in the OS/compilers that break on x86, which has _no_ alignment requirements. It is so bad that it's the driving factor in Microsoft's switch to XML, which they have _always_ planned for Office 11. Now they are just promising to open all meta-data. That move is going to _break_ compatibility. It would not surprise me one bit if one of the major portions of the Microsoft- Sun alliance is Microsoft's licensure of the OOo/SO import/export code for Office 11, something that _is_ under Sun's copyright. So you're already going to "run into" the loss of data in the future anyway. And you're already flopping between DOC 8 (MS Word 97) and OOo, that's only going to make it work. IN A NUTSHELL (IMPO**): Pick 1 and stick with it for maximum compatibility. [ **In My Professional Opinion, if I was selling to someone -- even if it meant they stuck with MS Word 97, which it often does. ;-] Now I've have argued (IMHO -- now I'm "humble" on this) that this should be OOo for longevity. But if you're going to stay with DOC 8, I would recommend you'd just stick with MS Word 97 itself. If anything ... "in the worst case" ... it _looks_ like WINE is able to "emulate" the "binary/data alignment" required. > I had figured that giving the service reps some better software than > the 9-year-old Office 97 would give us a step in the right direction, > then once management saw how the software worked well introduce them > to the concept of using the improved file format for internal > documents. You're going to get stopped before you even get started. Why? Because between the conversion to/from OOo's features and MS Office's attributes, you're going to lose _more_ than if you just stuck with one or the other. You're going to give management the "worst case scenario" -- a non- native program converting _all_ the time. ;-> You want to show the _native_ format and features, and _limit_ the conversion _only_ when necessary. If it is your intention to show management that OOo is a "better DOC 8 editor than MS Word 97," then you are going to _fail_ as _bad_ as "MS Office 98 for MacOS" did. ;-> > It would save us a fortune long-term, and only create minor headaches > along the way with either new or forgetful employees. Again, IMPO, I would choose to use the _native_ format for the program you stick with -- be it MS Word 97 for DOC 8, or a switch to ODT for OOo 1.9.x/2.x. And IMHO, if you really want to address document longevity _now_, before Microsoft enforces it on you in MS Office 11 anyway (possibly via what you get in OOo/SO anyway -- see my "assumption" above), you might as well go ODT by default with OOo. Otherwise you're just going to show management how much of a "kludge" it is to maintain DOC 8 with another implementation than MS Word 97 itself. Your users will quickly learn to "Save As" for exchange with others, but you will _not_ be putting precious "company investments" in a _dead_ format. ;-> > I should also mention that the group of users that would be affected by > this is our customer support department of ten people. The majority of > them are not very technical so ease of use is a major factor - hence my > interest in OOo v2 versus v1 (v2 is easier to use). Import is transparent. Export is a matter of teaching them to "Save As." They will quickly learn it if they send an ODT to someone. And if you think management won't like that, don't be surprised when management doesn't like what OOo does when a user formats something in a way under OOo, but it doesn't look like that (or doesn't work at all) once it is saved to DOC -- especially all the "confusion" the user will get when OOo says "saving this to MS Word format will lose some features" (or similar comment). > Along with OOo each machine will also have Microsoft Outlook 2000 > installed as the email client, I had originally asked if they'd be > willing to upgrade to Office 2003 but they weren't willing to spend > money on that right now. Well, I'm not going to touch the collaboration stuff. In a nutshell, if I was a consultant on this, I would continue to deploy MS Word 97, until I had sold the management on a "pilot" where you are addressing the "Freedomware desktop" in more of a "here is what it's going to cost you, here is what you will gain" truth. Trying to replace MS Office with OOo/SO transparently, including defaulting to MS Office documents, _never_ works -- for the same reasons why MS Office 98, 2001, X, etc... for Mac have the _same_ issues. Because in the end, it will only have management believing that OOo/SO sucks -- just like Macs -- when it wasn't the problem in the first place. ;-> > Along with the 10 support people there are about another ten others in > the company that do business support & development of various kinds. > I intend using Acronis Snap Deploy to deploy the OS installations to the > individual workstations, I'm evaluating it at the moment but it looks > like it will do what I need, and is cheaper & easier to use than Norton > Ghost. > Anyone know of a good manager-accessible article that explains the > rationale for migrating to OOo in the first place? Something like that > would be a major help with my plans. I just gave you the 1 paragraph, 3+ year document longevity reasoning -- especially given the fact that Microsoft has indirectly admitted it is a _major_ "cost" for companies today. But as far as "transparently" replacing MS Office with OOo/SO while continuing to use MS Office formats, no, I don't think many people would advocate that -- not even with 1.9.x/2.x -- and I wouldn't either. That's in my _professional_ opinion -- sticking with MS Office 97 would be better if you're going to use DOC, XLS, PPT, etc... by default. As far as MS Office v. OOo/SO, that's IMHO -- only you can decide if you should be using MS Office with DOC or OOo/SO with ODT. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 5 14:21:37 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Enterprise-level installation of Firefox & profiles? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB7@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB7@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1120587697.7018.70.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 13:37 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Has anyone deployed Firefox in an enterprise setting? The Mozilla suite and, more recently, Firefox browser are _officially_ _supported_ in (company name omitted) $30.5B (yes, billion) Integrated Defense Systems (IDS) unit. > I'm looking to do that at work (yes, along with OOo) and have a fe > questions: > * What is the current status with Firefox and roaming profiles? > We're going to be using roaming profiles for our user accounts. > The notes in bugzilla are a little confusing. - Roaming Profiles NT's Roaming Profiles are a PITA -- always have been, always will be. The problem will not related to Mozilla/Firefox, but NT in general. You have to know what you are doing, and even then, NT will rear-end you in many cases. There are ways to proliferate files across your network without using the the "all-encompassing clusterfsck" of roaming profiles. You can setup different attributes in a user .DAT to reference different _portions_ of a profile. That's what I do, because I can't trust the entire profile directory to be "roaming" -- at least NT5.0/2000 gives you more "piecemeal" options (did I mention I hate how roaming profiles work, and have since NT 3.51? ;-). - Client Customization Kit (CCK) In the case of (company name omitted) Shared Services Group (SSG), the ones who handle the roll-out, they are using some version of the Client Customization Kit from old Netscape 6/7. I've been meaning to ask them more details of this when I had time, but they are clearly doing it as of Firefox 1.0.4. When a user logs in the first time on a system, Firefox 1.0.4 sets up all the details from their centralized Mozilla/Firefox configuration. It solves the entire issue AFAICT, but I don't know what changes they've made to it. > Also, what's the best way to set defaults for configuration options, > boomarks, etc? Use the CCK, or something with a linage to it. Again, I'm going to get more info on what we're doing, but it looks like an XPI. > Actually, I've just found > http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox:1.5_Institutional_Deployment so anyone > have any further experiences? Here is the current 0.1 release of the CCK for FireFox 1.0.4. I don't know if SSG is using that ... http://www.mozilla.org/projects/cck/firefox/ -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From tim at mcdonough.net Tue Jul 5 14:53:30 2005 From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> Does there exist or can someone suggest what search terms to use for a rescue CD for Windows XP? What I'd like is a bootable CD that allow a network connection and access to the PC hard disk. There have been several times when I have had PCs fail to boot because of a missing or corrupt file and ideally I'd like to be able to make sure key documents, etc. are copied off if possible before trying to repair or recover from the Windows CDROM. This seems like it would be especially useful for laptops where it's not always easy to pop out the drive and hook it to another system as a slave. Thanks, Tim -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/39 - Release Date: 7/4/2005 From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 15:50:01 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues -- INSERT (Linux Live CD) Message-ID: <17300541.1120593002243.JavaMail.root@wamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Tim McDonough > Does there exist or can someone suggest what search terms to use > for a rescue CD for Windows XP? The problem is that Gates himself removed the ability to boot into a full "CMD.EXE" shell from day one in NT 3.1, even though it was based on OS/2. Gates required the Graphical Display Interface (GDI) before NT would boot, which has become the Achilles heel of NT. Microsoft re-introduced the Recovery Console in NT 5.0+ (2000+), but it still doesn't allow all sorts of access -- from the filesystem to the registry. Once again, some core subsystems require on the GDI, including much of the filesystem and registry support. Microsoft was working towards a new CLI (command line interface) environment MONAD. No one knew if it would just be a ".NET scripting environment" inside of NT 6.0 "Longhorn" (most likely), or if it would be a full CLI boot environment for when the GDI -- now, WGF (Windows Graphics Foundation -- GDI+DX+.NET). But we'll never know since it's been canned. > What I'd like is a bootable CD that allow a network connection and > access to the PC hard disk. There have been several times when I have > had PCs fail to boot because of a missing or corrupt file and ideally > I'd like to be able to make sure key documents, etc. are copied off if > possible before trying to repair or recover from the Windows CDROM. > This seems like it would be especially useful for laptops where it's > not always easy to pop out the drive and hook it to another system as > a slave. This is exactly why Linux Live CDs exist. To boot into an environment with networking, a NTFS read-only** driver and other support. It's much more feature-full than a Microsoft DOS + Network Client boot disk, hence the popularity. As of January 2003, there is even a full NT registry editor for Linux. The most popular Linux Live CD build system is Knoppix (although be wary of some releases with a lot of non-freely redistributable software out there): http://www.knoppix.org/ One of the first "canned" releases for NT was the "Password Reset" CD. As of 2003, it had evolved into all the basic tools you need to read NTFS, hack the registry or, it's original purpose, reset the password (of a non-DC): http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/faq.html More recently there has been an effort for an universal security CD for doing all sorts of things -- from reading NTFS with via Captive**, Anti-Virus, network/wireless support, computer forsensics, etc... called INSERT: http://www.inside-security.de/insert_en.html Lastly, someone has built an "Ultimate Boot CD" around INSERT and other tools, although it probably contains a lot of software that is not supposed to be redistributed (at least there's a lot of software that cannot legally be freely redistributed): http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ -- Bryan **NOTE: _Never_ write to a NTFS filesystem from anything _but_ the NT installation that created it -- _not_ even the same NT version/SP, because there are SIDs tied to the registry which is local to that NT installation. The only way around this is via the "Captive" user- space driver based on ReactOS (a NT-like/compatible GNU system) in Linux (which is very, very slow -- long story): http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/ I'm doing a presentation to the St. Louis UNIX User's Group (SLUUG) next week on Linux-NT interoperability, as well as NT recovery via Linux. In a nutshell, NTFS was _not_ designed well, and Microsoft has tried to address this with the defunct "CairoFS" (NT 4.0 "Cario" / "Cario" technology / vaporware) and, now, WinFS (NT 6.0 "Longhorn" / WinFX technology / [might as well be] vaporware). -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From work at sprynet.com Tue Jul 5 15:57:22 2005 From: work at sprynet.com (J.T. Hayden) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> Message-ID: <00a201c5819b$c4a181c0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Yes its called bart PE works great J.T. Hayden -----Original Message----- From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Tim McDonough Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 14.54 To: Pc_support@matrixlist.com Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues Does there exist or can someone suggest what search terms to use for a rescue CD for Windows XP? What I'd like is a bootable CD that allow a network connection and access to the PC hard disk. There have been several times when I have had PCs fail to boot because of a missing or corrupt file and ideally I'd like to be able to make sure key documents, etc. are copied off if possible before trying to repair or recover from the Windows CDROM. This seems like it would be especially useful for laptops where it's not always easy to pop out the drive and hook it to another system as a slave. Thanks, Tim -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/39 - Release Date: 7/4/2005 _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support@matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From ae4ko at amsat.org Tue Jul 5 16:01:20 2005 From: ae4ko at amsat.org (Aaron Morrison) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> References: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> Message-ID: <42CAE710.1070500@amsat.org> Tim McDonough wrote: > Does there exist or can someone suggest what search terms to use for a > rescue CD for Windows XP? > > What I'd like is a bootable CD that allow a network connection and > access to the PC hard disk. There have been several times when I have > had PCs fail to boot because of a missing or corrupt file and ideally > I'd like to be able to make sure key documents, etc. are copied off if > possible before trying to repair or recover from the Windows CDROM. This > seems like it would be especially useful for laptops where it's not > always easy to pop out the drive and hook it to another system as a slave. > > Thanks, > > Tim > > Look into BartPE: http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ It will do what you are looking for. --am From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 16:05:30 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <20354982.1120593931030.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: "J.T. Hayden" > Yes its called bart PE works great Damn I'm outta date. Excellent link! Seems this might be better for many tasks. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From ae4ko at amsat.org Tue Jul 5 16:20:26 2005 From: ae4ko at amsat.org (Aaron Morrison) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <20354982.1120593931030.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <20354982.1120593931030.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <42CAEB8A.6030701@amsat.org> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > Damn I'm outta date. > Excellent link! > Seems this might be better for many tasks. A bit! ;-) BartPE has been around for a couple of years. Nice thing about it is that there are quite a few plug-ins around that make the disk even more useful. Most plug-ins are shells around other products like Nero, AV scanners, etc. One particularly useful one for me since I have a couple of Novell servers around is the Netware Client plug-in that allows me to attach to the NW servers. Very useful. --am From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 16:22:45 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <17185234.1120594965868.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Aaron Morrison > A bit! ;-) BartPE has been around for a couple of years. Nice thing > about it is that there are quite a few plug-ins around that make the > disk even more useful. Most plug-ins are shells around other products > like Nero, AV scanners, etc. One particularly useful one for me since > I have a couple of Novell servers around is the Netware Client plug-in > that allows me to attach to the NW servers. > Very useful. I had heard of the Windows PE, but I had dismissed it as quite limited. I guess I've been doing so much Linux and Solaris the last 2 years that I'm well outta-date with what 3rd parties have been doing with similar offerings. It looks like it's NT5.1 (XP/2003) only, correct? -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 5 16:37:08 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AE7@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > I had heard of the Windows PE, but I had dismissed it as > quite limited. Seems they fixed some of the limitations with BartPE. > It looks like it's NT5.1 (XP/2003) only, correct? Correct. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 17:07:07 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <6991841.1120597628155.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > Seems they fixed some of the limitations with BartPE. Exactly! Which is why I feel like a bone-head for not bothering to even look at it. I'm sure I've heard people talking about a Windows PE several times, and just dismissed it as more "oh, we're going to make NT 'fixable' like OS/2 and Linux." So much for my not paying attention. > Correct. Sigh, it's time I dove back into the NT5.1 stuff. I need to update my MCSA/MCSE to 2003 anyway. Might as well get the full, technical tour alongside studying the "Microsoft answers." -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From tim at mcdonough.net Tue Jul 5 17:08:53 2005 From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <42CAE710.1070500@amsat.org> References: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> <42CAE710.1070500@amsat.org> Message-ID: <42CAF6E5.3020902@mcdonough.net> Aaron Morrison wrote: > Look into BartPE: > > http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ > > It will do what you are looking for. > > --am J.T. and Aaron -- Thanks! Bart PE looks like exactly what I wanted. -- Tim N9PUZ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/39 - Release Date: 7/4/2005 From work at sprynet.com Tue Jul 5 19:07:06 2005 From: work at sprynet.com (J.T. Hayden) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <17185234.1120594965868.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00da01c581b6$43eaa7d0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Actually not, I have compiled for 98SE and ME as well as XP pro J.T. Hayden -----Original Message----- From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Bryan J. Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 16.23 To: ae4ko@amsat.org; This is the PC Support list. Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues From: Aaron Morrison > A bit! ;-) BartPE has been around for a couple of years. Nice thing > about it is that there are quite a few plug-ins around that make the > disk even more useful. Most plug-ins are shells around other products > like Nero, AV scanners, etc. One particularly useful one for me since > I have a couple of Novell servers around is the Netware Client plug-in > that allows me to attach to the NW servers. > Very useful. I had heard of the Windows PE, but I had dismissed it as quite limited. I guess I've been doing so much Linux and Solaris the last 2 years that I'm well outta-date with what 3rd parties have been doing with similar offerings. It looks like it's NT5.1 (XP/2003) only, correct? -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support@matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From ae4ko at amsat.org Tue Jul 5 20:01:40 2005 From: ae4ko at amsat.org (Aaron Morrison) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <00da01c581b6$43eaa7d0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> References: <17185234.1120594965868.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <42CAE724.7062.13A525@localhost> On 5 Jul 2005 at 19:07, J.T. Hayden wrote: > Actually not, I have compiled for 98SE and ME as well as XP pro > > J.T. Hayden > Eh? Where? That could be useful for some things... Older version of PEBuilder? Didn't think that Win98 et.al had the Preinstall Environment (PE) that all of this is based on. --am From work at sprynet.com Tue Jul 5 21:37:42 2005 From: work at sprynet.com (J.T. Hayden) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <42CAE724.7062.13A525@localhost> Message-ID: <012701c581cb$4decdcc0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> The version I HAD (I don't think I have it anymore due to systems crash) did ME and SE I can look to see if I still have it J.T. Hayden -----Original Message----- From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Morrison Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 20.02 To: work@mindspring.com; This is the PC Support list. Subject: RE: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues On 5 Jul 2005 at 19:07, J.T. Hayden wrote: > Actually not, I have compiled for 98SE and ME as well as XP pro > > J.T. Hayden > Eh? Where? That could be useful for some things... Older version of PEBuilder? Didn't think that Win98 et.al had the Preinstall Environment (PE) that all of this is based on. --am _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support@matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 5 21:51:51 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <00da01c581b6$43eaa7d0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> References: <00da01c581b6$43eaa7d0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Message-ID: <1120614711.7801.4.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 19:07 -0400, J.T. Hayden wrote: > Actually not, I have compiled for 98SE and ME as well as XP pro Well, 98SE and ME are just MS-DOS 7.1, not MS-NT 5.1. It's not too difficult to build a DOS boot disk. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net Tue Jul 5 22:01:38 2005 From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (Austin Denyer (Ozz)) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050705220138.090ff063.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:26:31 -0400, "Damien McKenna" wrote: > Is anyone using OOo v2 builds in production settings? I'm in charge > of creating the new OS build for our new workstations at work and I'm > looking to standardize on many OSS tools, mainly Firefox and OOo. I can't speak for the Windoze version, but the Linux version of OOo2 takes a LOOOOOONG time to load. Once it's loaded it's pretty sweet and reasonably snappy (as long as you have plenty of RAM), but you do need some serious hardware if you're planning to impress anyone. By way of an example, I just tried it on a Dual-Processor Pentium III (2x750MHz) with 768 Megs of RAMBUS memory, a fresh (as of this morning) install of Debian Testing with 2.6.8-2-SMP kernel and IceWM, and it took close to 2 minutes to load oowriter2! It took around 40 secs to load oowriter2 on this box (3.0GHz AMD64, 1 Gig RAM, IceWM, Debian Pure64 native with OOo2 in a 32-bit Sid chroot), although to be fair I'm hitting this box pretty hard right now, as the following clip from top shows: Mem: 1023320k total, 1001832k used, 21488k free, 121672k buffers Swap: 1951856k total, 1118200k used, 833656k free, 505316k cached Regards, Ozz. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 5 23:37:34 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <20050705220138.090ff063.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <20050705220138.090ff063.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> Message-ID: <1120621054.8014.3.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 22:01 -0400, Austin Denyer wrote: > I can't speak for the Windoze version, but the Linux version of OOo2 > takes a LOOOOOONG time to load. Once it's loaded it's pretty sweet and > reasonably snappy (as long as you have plenty of RAM), but you do need > some serious hardware if you're planning to impress anyone. It actually loaded in under 4 seconds for me in Linux/x86-64, Athlon 64 3200+, 1GB SDRAM (DDR400, 2.5-3-3-7 timing), Western Digital 320GB 7200rpm SATA drive. Now I _know_ that's not a typical system. But still, I'm not seeing any "difference" between OOo 1.0 / SO 7.0 and OOo 1.9.104 (my version of the 2.0 beta). > By way of an example, I just tried it on a Dual-Processor Pentium III > (2x750MHz) with 768 Megs of RAMBUS memory, a fresh (as of this morning) > install of Debian Testing with 2.6.8-2-SMP kernel and IceWM, and it took > close to 2 minutes to load oowriter2! Ouch! That sounds like it's a different issue, but that could be me. > It took around 40 secs to load oowriter2 on this box (3.0GHz AMD64, 1 > Gig RAM, IceWM, Debian Pure64 native with OOo2 in a 32-bit Sid chroot), > although to be fair I'm hitting this box pretty hard right now, as the > following clip from top shows: > Mem: 1023320k total, 1001832k used, 21488k free, 121672k buffers > Swap: 1951856k total, 1118200k used, 833656k free, 505316k cached Ouch -- you're using 2GB of RAM. Here was my system state (I just got done playing a few rounds of UT2004): Mem: 1025120k total, 1012812k used, 12308k free, 8524k buffers Swap: 7823612k total, 292k used, 7823320k free, 465648k cached -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 00:00:26 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... Message-ID: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> All -- I just wanted to point out that I just upgraded from a Seagate 200GB 7200rpm ATA to a Western Digital 320GB 7200rpm SATA and I'm seeing a _massive_ performance boost. I haven't done any benchmarks, and I'm not sure it's actually throughput related, but the access time/response "feel" is clearly much, much faster. I noticed it is indexing my local Evolution mbox files much faster than before -- 3x over! Why, I'm not sure. Being that the WD is clearly a newer generation drive and density, it's not really fair to the Seagate in comparison. I know the interface really doesn't make any difference, as neither drive approaches the interface limitations -- unless, of course, maybe the nVidia ATA design has some serious bottlenecks. And it's not likely the use of the SCSI subsystem (via nv_sata), because it's still a "dumb block" ATA data stream -- no NCQ or anything. So the only other thing I think it could be (besides the newer gen drive, which is definitely part of it) is the fact that the SATA channels are on their own, dedicated PCIe x1 channel. The SATA isn't contending for I/O bandwidth with any other devices on the legacy PCI bus, and I have to assume this is a major reason. It could also be the bi-directional features of PCIe x1 as well, commands/writing and reading also do not contend for the I/O channel. Whatever it is, I really need to get two drives of the same model to test it out further, and throw a few apps at it. Otherwise, I am extremely and pleasantly surprised to see the result. Again, I can only assume a good part of the reason is because the 4-port SATA of the nForce (all versions -- Standard, Ultra and SLI -- the latter two being SATA-2/300, mine is only SATA-1/150, not that it's much difference today) is on its own PCIe x1, whereas all the other ATA is on the legacy, shared PCI bus. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From damien at mc-kenna.com Wed Jul 6 00:05:49 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... In-Reply-To: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42CB589D.7010002@mc-kenna.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >I just wanted to point out that I just upgraded from a Seagate 200GB >7200rpm ATA to a Western Digital 320GB 7200rpm SATA and I'm seeing a >_massive_ performance boost. > That would be excellent! Have you looked at the nForce4 schematics to see if there's something there? -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From philb at philb.us Wed Jul 6 00:11:27 2005 From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507060011.28150.philb@philb.us> On Tuesday 05 July 2005 12:38 pm, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > So what point > is there in running OOo if you're just going to store the documents > in a Hostageware format that may not be well supported in the > future? Are you saying that a format that OOo can save in now is going to go away? Or that OOo will some day become incapable of loading a document that it saved in a previous incarnation of OOo? -- "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -Mark Twain From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 6 00:39:59 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... In-Reply-To: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507060040.00112.jasonb@edseek.com> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 00:00, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > All -- > > Whatever it is, I really need to get two drives of the same model to > test it out further, and throw a few apps at it. Otherwise, I am > extremely and pleasantly surprised to see the result. Again, I can only > assume a good part of the reason is because the 4-port SATA of the > nForce (all versions -- Standard, Ultra and SLI -- the latter two being > SATA-2/300, mine is only SATA-1/150, not that it's much difference > today) is on its own PCIe x1, whereas all the other ATA is on the > legacy, shared PCI bus. Dude, you're making me want to upgrade. Stop. ;) I can't afford it right now, especially since it doesn't make sense to get the really cheap legacy stuff now with PCIe stuff not much more expensive. Sigh. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 01:18:49 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] AnandTech on nForce4 Ultra mainboards ... Message-ID: <1120627129.8014.43.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Thought I'd point out that AnandTech has done a review of various nForce4 Ultra mainboards: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2465 If you're not looking at SLI, which may or may not benefit you at all, then you probably just want an nForce4 Ultra mainboard. They prices start at sub-$100 Foxconn NF4UK8AA and around $110 for the Epox 9NPA+, and climb to mid-$150+ for other mainboards. Personally, I could care less about overclocking these days, and the Foxconn's "little brother" in my Foxconn NF4K8MC-ERS (nForce4 Standard) MicroATX has totally sold me on reliability. But that's just me. Anand found most of the benchmarks that had it "on-par" with most of the other mainboards. Overall, AnandTech has done an _excellent_review_ of not only the standard benchmarks, but the audio, ATA, NIC and other features, including CPU utilization of different configurations. That's always a consideration (especially an ALC850 in 3D spatial audio -- bam! CPU hit!). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 01:31:12 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Foxconn's $245 Single Opteron, nForce Pro 2200 + 2050 ... Message-ID: <1120627872.8014.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> This little mainboard caught my eye just today: http://www.foxconnchannel.com/products_motherboard_2.cfm? pName=NFPIK8AA-8EKRS Now there are a few vendors coming out with nForce Pro 2200 Opteron mainboards, and a few others coming out with nForce Pro 2200 + 2050 dual Opteron mainboards. But this was a single Opteron with the 2200 + 2050 combination -- 40 PCIe lanes, (2) GbE NICs (one in each chip) and (8) SATA ports (four in each chip). The GbE MACs and SATA ports are not on the standard, legacy, shared PCI bus, but segmented either with PCIe x1 channels or integrated directly on the HyperTransport interconnect. Now if I had money to spend on a "server" or "workstation," I'd go for a mainboard with an AMD813x and it's dual-PCI-X channels, as well as a storage controller to match. But if I didn't have money, the segmented NIC/SATA combination may very well be great for the price to start -- $245 for an Opteron mainboard. Especially since the SATA are supported in the _stock_ Linux kernel 2.6 (nv_sata), and nVidia now supports direct development of the 1000Mbps NIC and it's getting quite good (GPL forcedeth -- although the closed source nv_net is still an option if you run into any issues). It also is somewhat "future proof" because there are all sorts of options to upgrade to PCIe storage/NIC hardware as they become available**. Even for a workstation, where both PCIe x16 slots may be in use for SLI, there is still a PCIe x4 slots for storage that is off, away from the graphics cards (in addition to (2) PCIe x1 slots). [ **NOTE: Broadcom just introduced its first _true_ RAID hardware intelligence in a single IC for SATA RAID channels, as well as both PCIe and PCI-X interfaces (it can even bridge the two) for $60 in quantities of $10K. That means a board is probably going to be $250-300 end-user (the design supports up to 768MB of SDRAM buffer) and you can expect them later in the year. ] Opteron 100 series are sub-$200 for a good, 2GHz/1MB L2 processor. The only other cost is Registered SDRAM, but Registered ECC DDR333 SDRAM is very reliable, and not much more in cost. This makes this mainboard an excellent idea for an "entry level server" when cost is king, but you don't want to skimp on reliability. If you're planning to go SLI for a "high-end" workstation then you'll need a PS with a triple +12V feed with (2) 6-pin WS connectors (one for each PCIe x16 card) because the mainboard feed isn't going to cut it. It only has the standard 24-pin ATX 2.0 (supposedly 20-pin ATX 1.0 "tolerant" but I wouldn't push it ;-) + 4-pin P4. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 6 01:37:30 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Foxconn's $245 Single Opteron, nForce Pro 2200 + 2050 ... In-Reply-To: <1120627872.8014.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120627872.8014.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507060137.30126.jasonb@edseek.com> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 01:31, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Opteron 100 series are sub-$200 for a good, 2GHz/1MB L2 processor. The > only other cost is Registered SDRAM, but Registered ECC DDR333 SDRAM is > very reliable, and not much more in cost. This makes this mainboard an > excellent idea for an "entry level server" when cost is king, but you > don't want to skimp on reliability. But "entry level" for what task? My old dual P3 733MHz seems to get the job done, so I guess it's "mid level" or "high end" for me. ;) -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 01:56:24 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <200507060011.28150.philb@philb.us> References: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507060011.28150.philb@philb.us> Message-ID: <1120629384.8014.81.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 00:11 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > Are you saying that a format that OOo can save in now is going to go away? No, I was saying if you're using OOo to save in DOC 8/9/10 by default, that has not only _always_ been a risk, but Microsoft is _killing_it_ as of DOC 11 (in favor of its new, supposedly-to-be-documented, XML standard). In fact, let me re-iterate the issues, one-by-one ... 1) x86 Binary Alignment issues DOC 8/9/10 (MS Word 97/2000/XP) have well-known, unintentional Hostageware (unmaintainable standard, unmaintainable source) issues due to reliance on simple binary records write/reads and lack of any alignment in x86. This is not only affecting portability to Mac and inter-version compatibility, but is affecting the x86-64 port as well. See #3. 2) Tag reuse DOC 7/8/9/10 (MS Word 95/97/2000/XP) also have well-known, _intentional_ Hostageware issues due to "tag reuse" to force upgrades and stint reverse engineering. E.g., tag re-use of DOC 7 (95) to both DOC 8 and 9 (97 and 2000), and some, to a lesser extent, in DOC 8 (97) to 10 (2000). This has improved in DOC 11 (MS Word 2003), but it's too little, too late -- especially for companies like Ozz who are still using DOC 8 (MS Word 97). 3) DOC 12 is going to be XML Because of the issues caused both unintentionally by #1, and intentionally by #2, Microsoft has been planing to make XML** the default in DOC 12 (MS Word 2005) -- especially for portability to x86-64. This is now the plan for DOC 12, and will cause _major_conversion_headaches_ for _all_, although it will solve the problem in the long-run. Conversion programs are already in development, and it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft licensed Sun's copyright on OOo/SO conversion code (that's a conspiracy theory, yes, but it's a very good one, given that OOo contributors are encouraged to sign over copyright to Sun in a formal writing). [ **NOTE: Don't confuse the DOC 12 plan with prior XML efforts. Although they already offered "end-user interfaces" in DOC 11 (2003), they were for extending on the user side -- i.e., interfacing/extending MS Office for 3rd party apps, not using them as the underlying format for MS Office's own documents. ] 4) OOo/SO has features that do _not_ match MSO If you save to DOC in OOo/SO, you are often prompted if and when (which is almost always) any features that are OOo/SO-only will be lost when saved to DOC -- especially older DOC like version 8 (97). If you set up OOo/SO to save to DOC by default, this will happen _all_the_time_. I.e., users will create documents, and when they open them again, various features of the document will be _lost_. Not to mention the slight differences between OOo/SO and MS will be lost anyway, as conversion is _never_ perfect (not even between different MSO versions -- see #1 and #2 above). It's best to either convert _only_ when you need it, or just not use OOo/SO at all if you want DOC to be your default anyway. Trust me on this, you're asking for a world of hurt -- only adopt OOo/SO if you plan to produce _all_ new documents in OOo/SO formats, and only occasionally convert as necessary to send to other parties. It is _not_ "transparent" -- not even in OOo 2.0. > Or that OOo will some day become incapable of loading a document that it > saved in a previous incarnation of OOo? No. Sun/OpenOffice.org _continues_ to support _all_ formats, prior and current ... - StarOffice 3/4/5 (pre-OOo): sdw - StarOffice 6/7 (OOo 1.x): sxw - StarOffice 8+ (OOo 2.x): odt (full OASIS standard**) [ **NOTE: This is basically the "sxw" as of OOo 1.1.x / SO 7.x ] -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 01:59:30 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... In-Reply-To: <200507060040.00112.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507060040.00112.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1120629570.8014.85.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 00:39 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Dude, you're making me want to upgrade. All I have right now is my "feel." It could be other factors I'm not considering. E.g., the ATA of the nVidia chipset could really suck, and that's why there's a huge differential. Or it could be the generation of disks. That's why I want to get identical ATA and SATA drives, and I'll also compare the ATA version in the nForce ATA to my AMD and 3Ware cards (JBOD mode) -- assuming I find the time. > Stop. ;) > I can't afford it right now, especially since it doesn't make sense to > get the really cheap legacy stuff now with PCIe stuff not much more > expensive. I'm just happy the nv_sata works _flawless_ in Linux, very happy. Another cool thing in XP -- nVidia's "unified driver" means the _same_ configuration is used for both ATA and SATA, so I didn't have to boot Linux and hack the registry when I switched from ATA to SATA for my boot. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 02:04:34 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Foxconn's $245 Single Opteron, nForce Pro 2200 + 2050 ... In-Reply-To: <200507060137.30126.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <1120627872.8014.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507060137.30126.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1120629874.8014.89.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 01:37 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > But "entry level" for what task? My old dual P3 733MHz seems to get the job > done, so I guess it's "mid level" or "high end" for me. > ;) Agreed. But if you're running with more than 1GB of RAM, under Linux, you're using the split 4G/4G model (instead of 1G/3G) which hurts performance on x86. [ NOTE: Under NT, this is 2GB of RAM (split 2G/2G model). ] It's at that point you should consider Opteron (Linux/x86-64). There are other advantages, including the I/O MMU and the avoidance of the "bounce buffers" if you do have more than 4GB of RAM. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From GrokWeeble at HotPOP.com Wed Jul 6 10:11:47 2005 From: GrokWeeble at HotPOP.com (Mike Webb) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues--Bart's PE In-Reply-To: <20050706023109.C903E1396D5F@mx2.hotpop.com> Message-ID: <42CBA053.6339.295691C@localhost> > Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 16:20:26 -0400 > From: Aaron Morrison > A bit! ;-) BartPE has been around for a couple of years. Nice thing about > it is that there are quite a few plug-ins around that make the disk even > more useful. Most plug-ins are shells around other products like Nero, AV > scanners, etc. One particularly useful one for me since I have a couple > of Novell servers around is the Netware Client plug-in that allows me to > attach to the NW servers. Do you know if (and if so, where) there is a BartPE plugin for a file-by- file backup program such as BackUp MyPC (formerly Veritas Backup Exec Desktop)? THAT would be really handy. -- My Groklaw nym is Weeble. It came from the "Spiderweeb" and "Weeb" kind of nicknames a kid named Webb gets. I never even knew of the Hasbro product until after I started using "Weeble". Take note, any Hasbro attorneys. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 09:25:52 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard Message-ID: <1120656352.9732.16.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Little Socket-462 "bare bones" kit that would I sell ultra-cheap (like under $50). I'm hoping to get back to Orlando later in the month, it's been difficult with the hours I've been working (I've been flying my wife up for the summer). In a nutshell, I'm converting my wife to MicroATX, taking the CPU, DDR memory, etc..., so I have this case + mainboard already mounted. We can talk power supplies (I believe I have the original Antec 400W that came with it in the SX1040). Antec SX1000 series: http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=81003 [ I can get you all the 80mm fans you want, and I think several should be replaced for age. ] Biostar M7VIW mainboard: http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=m7viw Some M7VIW highlights: - ViA KT266A / VT8235 combo The VT8235 is a very bug-free southbridge, most KT266-333 series ship with older VT8233 which had many issues -- I have not had any issues under any Linux (started with Red Hat Linux 9 / kernel 2.4.9). This mainboard was clearly designed as an "upgraders" board (see next two items for the reason), and came out when the KT333/KT400 were actually the "latest'n greatest." - _Both_ SDR (168-pin) SDRAM and DDR (184-pin) SDRAM I have used _both_ SDR and DDR in it -- started out with cheap (2) 256MB SDR and upgraded to (2) 512MB DDR more recently. I still have the SDR around if you don't have your own, but I figured you might already have your own PC100/133 or, possibly, DDR200/266 (PC1600/PC2100). - CPU support: 200/266MHz FSB, Athlon through 1.4GHz, Athlon XP2600+ I personally have the Athlon XP2600+ (2.13GHz) in it and it is _officially_ supported (I've already upgraded to the last BIOS). In the end, probably any 200/266MHz FSB Athlon/Duron is supported in it, including the XP2800+/266MHz, but the official BIOS support is only through XP2600+/266MHz. This board is built so it can recycle PC100/133 memory (as well as let you upgrade to DDR later), hence the use of the "older" KT266A chipset (even at the time it came out) and limitations to 200/266. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From m9u35g at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 10:42:07 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard In-Reply-To: <1120656352.9732.16.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120656352.9732.16.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <46f680d0507060742f8b1b90@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Little Socket-462 "bare bones" kit that would I sell ultra-cheap (like > under $50). I'm hoping to get back to Orlando later in the month, it's > been difficult with the hours I've been working (I've been flying my > wife up for the summer). I would love to bid on this. To confirm, the parts for sale are: mainboard (no cpu), case, and possible power supply. $50 for what exactly? The case and mainboard? That would be great Thanks, -- Justin Keyes From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 10:56:37 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard Message-ID: <7921030.1120661797486.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: "Justin M. Keyes" > I would love to bid on this. No bidding, first come, first serve. I typically "loan" it out for trial/use before someone pays me. > To confirm, the parts for sale are: > mainboard (no cpu), case, and possible power supply. Pretty much. I need to check what PSes I have, but I'm 1,000 miles away from the system right now. I'm going to try to get home by mid-month, but it's extremely difficult to get time off with all the responsibility I have right now, typically working 6 days/week. Ironically, it's all ultra-proprietary** work at the company, yet they keep me as a contractor**??? > $50 for what exactly? The case and mainboard? > That would be great Oh, I was figuring $50 or _even_less_. It all depends on what PS I can find. I see the M7VIW for $50 new, and the Antec case/variants for under $50 new with 300W PS. Assuming I can find a good PS, I was figuring $50. Otherwise maybe $30-40. I can't remember if that system has a 465W ATX 1.0 Enermax (and that will go to the new case, being that my new MicroATX it's not a ATX 2.0 mainboard, so the 300W ATX2.0 with split +12V might not be useful in the new case) and I have the original, 400W Antec laying around (which is still very good -- especially on the 3.3/5V lines for Athlon XP), or if I only have a 350W or some other, cheaper 300-400W PS extra laying around. -- Bryan P.S. I actually have a 2nd Antex SX1000 case without PS that you can have. It's missing a foot (stupid plastic PoS), and I think I cut the sides of it with 80mm intake fans -- can't remember. I'm more than willing to give that one away with it too. [ **NOTE: Not just DoD classified (contractors are used all the time for that stuff -- rather scary if you ask me ;-), but a lot is corporate proprietary, and I'm the only guy that is figuring out and learning the stuff, yet no one is bothering to show interest in actually retaining me, the guy that is going to be the only schmuck who understand how to deploy this stuff. ;-> Nice, especially when my wife's a teacher and it would be ideal if they made me an offer now. But I've been informally told that I won't get any offer until summer 2006, if they extend my contract past October at all. Oh why oh why did I leave my clients in Vegas? ;-] -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From m9u35g at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 11:05:20 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard In-Reply-To: <7921030.1120661797486.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <7921030.1120661797486.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <46f680d0507060805297fa9ff@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > I see the M7VIW for $50 new, and the Antec case/variants > for under $50 new with 300W PS. Assuming I can find a good > PS, I was figuring $50. Otherwise maybe $30-40. > > I can't remember if that system has a 465W ATX 1.0 Enermax > (and that will go to the new case, being that my new MicroATX > it's not a ATX 2.0 mainboard, so the 300W ATX2.0 with split > +12V might not be useful in the new case) and I have the original, > 400W Antec laying around (which is still very good -- especially > on the 3.3/5V lines for Athlon XP), or if I only have a 350W or > some other, cheaper 300-400W PS extra laying around. > > -- Bryan > > P.S. I actually have a 2nd Antex SX1000 case without PS that > you can have. It's missing a foot (stupid plastic PoS), and I think > I cut the sides of it with 80mm intake fans -- can't remember. > I'm more than willing to give that one away with it too. All sounds really great, just let me know when you are in town. I'm free all weekends and usually after 5:30 PM on weekdays. -- Justin Keyes From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 11:16:46 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard Message-ID: <30378744.1120663006781.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: "Justin M. Keyes" > All sounds really great, just let me know when you are in town. > I'm free all weekends and usually after 5:30 PM on weekdays. I will. I will probably just come in for the weekend of July 22-24. I'll just give you the unit (case with mainboard already mounted) so you can try it out on your own. I keep trying to get a full week off to clean up / pack up much of my house, but that keeps getting canceled--er, "pushed back." ;-> So I'll probably just fly back for a weekend instead -- the 22nd is looking best at this point, so maybe we can hook up on Sunday, the 24th. As I said, I'm treated and the expectations are like an employee, but they can't "justify" my position. Sigh, I'm seriously starting to _hate_ the mid-west and the non-sense that it's about "family values." Sad because I am originally from here, but I'm starting to realize that it's not the same as I remember it. Especially not in this economy. That aside, I have my "epiphany" last week. I got "flagged down" by someone I work with who wanted to yell at me about "speeding." I was doing 43 in a 40mph zone! Geez, I'm sorry if I don't want to do 30mph, 10 under the limit, like him! And the ultimate irony is that he flagged me right as we were passing a Radioactive dump (clearly visible from public road, less than 25' from the right-of- way). Oh the irony of "values"! @-p -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 6 13:43:27 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] WinXP + SysPrep + Norton Ghost basics Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AC2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Its been five years since I last used Norton Ghost to do anything and at the time I was only working with Windows 9x. At work I'm attempting to set up our customer service department's Windows XP machines to be managed using Norton Ghost or a similar program, but have some questions over how it all works. First off, from what I've read it seems that I really need to install the Ghost Client Partition, then install the OS & applications? Is there any way to put the partition on after an OS has already been installed? Secondly, after I have the install fine tuned the way I want, am I right in saying I have to use the SysPrep tool to clean down the installation so that it can then be copied to other computers? What happens after the cloned machines next boot, do they have to go through part of the Windows installation? All of our machines are identical (same model 'n everything) and I want to avoid as much post-imaging fiddling as possible. Any insights would be appreciated, I've got very little time to do a test, decide what method we're going to use and implement it. Thanks. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 14:33:36 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] WinXP + SysPrep + Norton Ghost basics In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AC2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AC2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1120674816.10239.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 13:43 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Secondly, after I have the install fine tuned the way I want, am I right > in saying I have to use the SysPrep tool to clean down the installation > so that it can then be copied to other computers? Correct. Sysprep is NT5.0+'s "Registry-SAM-SID cleaner" that prevents multiple NT systems from the same image from having an identity crisis when they see each other on the network. Prior to Sysprep in NT5.0+, you pretty much had to use "hacked" solutions that changed the SIDs post-facto, on a clone. Now with Sysprep, we can do it _before_ we clone. > What happens after the cloned machines next boot, do they have to go > through part of the Windows installation? It depends, but by default, they typically do. If you've ever gotten a new tier-1 PC and been presented with the owner, key, etc..., that's basically what happens again. > All of our machines are identical (same model 'n everything) and I > want to avoid as much post-imaging fiddling as possible. You can automate some of this with your cloning tool, or various Sysprep scripts. > Any insights would be appreciated, I've got very little time to do a > test, decide what method we're going to use and implement it. Just run Sysprep, Ghost Dump and then do your Ghost Images _before_ booting the installation again (after you run Sysprep). If you accidentally let it boot, you'll need to re-Sysprep it. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 6 15:13:53 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] WinXP + SysPrep + Norton Ghost basics Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858ACA@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Thanks Bryan. > Correct. Sysprep is NT5.0+'s "Registry-SAM-SID cleaner" that prevents > multiple NT systems from the same image from having an identity crisis > when they see each other on the network. OK, that's what I was thinking. I really should have taken a Windows2000 Administration class while at college, just for knowledge-sake. > > All of our machines are identical (same model 'n everything) and I > > want to avoid as much post-imaging fiddling as possible. > > You can automate some of this with your cloning tool, or > various Sysprep scripts. Any recommendations on what to use? We're using OEM OS licenses, i.e. not a volume license which makes things a little more tricky. I'm having fun here, though struggling with the fact that Ghost 8 Corp Edition doesn't let you create a boot *CD*, only boot floppies. Major pain. And you don't get the PXE server with the evaluation copy so you can't see how well that works. This is, again, part of the 13-system installation I'm working on. I've evaluated Acronis Snap Deploy which is fairly good but misses out on some things, like not identifying systems based on the MAC so you can't tell the PXE server which systems to install if they don't have an OS install already, and I also can't get the deployment system to work at all, it won't recognize the two machines available to it. Norton Ghost is better for the most part, but having an incomplete eval installation is causing problems for me. Right now I'm installing Microsoft's Remote Installation Services to see if I can manually add the Ghost PXE image. And I thought I'd given up this stuff when I moved into web development? Pah ;) -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 15:43:22 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] WinXP + SysPrep + Norton Ghost basics Message-ID: <7860845.1120679003309.JavaMail.root@wamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > OK, that's what I was thinking. I really should have taken a > Windows2000 Administration class while at college, just for > knowledge-sake. Hey, I'm outta date on NT5.1 (XP/2003) as we recently found out right on this list. ;-> As always, if you want the "crash course," I recommend the 70-218 book from Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/mspress/books/6140.asp It talks about Slipstreaming, Sysprep, RIS, etc..., all the basic tools that Windows 2000 comes with. The 70-218 exam is really a great "admin-level" book for everything that comes with Windows 2000. BTW, I haven't seen a good equivalent for Windows 2003 yet, although I have the 70-292/70-296 Microsoft and Syngress upgrade books. The MS book is supposed to suck (haven't been through it yet), with the Syngress being much better. > Any recommendations on what to use? We're using OEM OS > licenses, i.e. not a volume license which makes things a little > more tricky. I've been lucky to have gotten my hands on the "Select" CDs, at least for Windows 2000. ;-> > I'm having fun here, though struggling with the fact that Ghost 8 Corp > Edition doesn't let you create a boot *CD*, only boot floppies. Major > pain. And you don't get the PXE server with the evaluation copy so you > can't see how well that works. Exactly. I'd actually think about using Linux instead. Install on FAT32, Sysprep, then plop down on a new system, and have it convert to NTFS. > And I thought I'd given up this stuff when I moved into web development? > Pah ;) Never! -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 6 16:27:07 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? Message-ID: <200507061627.07810.jasonb@edseek.com> Anyone have any thoughts on x86 boxes ready to rock that need only have Linux installed? I'm looking for something in the $4-$5K range. It's going to be primarily a database server with some Web application development against said database server taking place. The datasets are of a moderate size, so 60GB of disk space or more is estimated. I'm looking for something that's SCA with RAID, preferably 4U in size. The current machine is a dual P3 box with 2GB of PC133 ECC RAM and an old Adaptec 2100-S RAID controller with 3 18GB Seagate Cheetah 10Ks in a RAID 5 configuration. Disks, redundancy, and disk accessibility are my primary interests. The existing CPU and RAM have proven adequate for our needs so far. Thoughts on vendors and such? Thanks. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 6 17:41:43 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AE2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > It's going to be primarily a database server with some Web > application development against said database server taking place. I'd aim for an Opteron system with a x86-64 distro if possible, otherwise IMHO you're wasting money. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 6 17:58:57 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AE2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AE2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <200507061758.57146.jasonb@edseek.com> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 17:41, Damien McKenna wrote: > > It's going to be primarily a database server with some Web > > application development against said database server taking place. > > I'd aim for an Opteron system with a x86-64 distro if possible, > otherwise IMHO you're wasting money. But from who? I don't want to play the assemble the server game. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 19:31:25 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? Message-ID: <142738.1120692685732.JavaMail.root@wamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Jason Boxman > Anyone have any thoughts on x86 boxes ready to rock that need only > have Linux installed? I'm looking for something in the $4-$5K range. Well, if you haven't noticed by now, I can't, in good conscience, recommend Intel EM64T for servers. Although Intel has addressed some of the basic >4GiB memory issues with the latest Xeon MP, they still have the memory controller hub (MCH) "front side bottleneck," and the lack of an I/O MMU which means you're using "bounce buffers" for more than 4GiB of RAM. My personal opinion has been a staunch recommendation of either Opteron for newer, >1GiB RAM servers, or older, refurbished dual-P3 systems (with ServerWorks IIILE/IIIHE) for 1GiB RAM or less when you're pinching pennies. And when it comes to the Opteron, there varying designs. - Tier-1: HP or Sun If you want a tier-1 OEM, then the HP DL145, DL385 and DL585 2x, 2x and 4x Opterons are your meal tickets. For those not familar with HP's 14x (1U), 38x (2U) and 58x (4U) lines, the latter two have hot-swap, redundant power, etc..., while the former is clearly an economically designed system. http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/platforms/index-dl.html Sun definitely bests even HP in design, although you'll pay a premium for it. Their 4x Opteron SunFire V40z has (3) AMD8131 HyperTransport tunnels -- meaning (4) PCI-X slots are _full_ 133MHz, 1GBps slots, with the other (3) PCI-X slots being 66-100MHz (including the on-board peripherals). http://www.sun.com/servers/entry/v40z/index.jsp So, in a nutshell, when cost is a factor, the DL145 is great. If you just need a 2-way with a bit more, and hot-swap/PS redundancy options, the DL385 will do nicely. When you're looking for top-tier 4-way (8-way with dual-core) systems, the DL585 is a well-designed, AMD reference Opteron 800 great for all duties. If you want the ultimate in I/O, maybe because it's a file server, or has multiple storage/networking connections, it's hard to beat the SunFire V40z which goes beyond even AMD's reference Opteron 800. - Tier-2: Monarch Computer If you don't mind a tier-2 OEM that custom builds, especially if you like more SATA options like 3Ware controllers, then Monarch is definitely your partner. They are currently the _premier_ AMD partner, so they get the stuff _first_, often before _anyone_ else in the "whitebox" world (sometimes exclusiely for the first week or two of introduction). And they'll ship anything from Debian, Fedora, SuSE Linux to full-up RHEL and SLES with _software_ support in the case of the latter two (for sub-$1,500 in some cases, very nice). The Monarch Empro line is their Opteron offering, with various workstation, server and other options. They offer Rackmount servers in 1U, 2U and 3U form-factors, including 4, 8 and 12 3.5"x1" hot-swap HD drive bays plus slim 3.5" and CD drives. Mainboards are typically Tyan, among others, so they are geared more towards cost-conscience designs than ultra-I/O. E.g., although their 2x Opteron boards compete well with most tier-1 Opteron offerings, the 4x Opteron is clearly not quite as powerful as the DL585 or V40z. So if you're not looking to build a powerful file or other LAN server with massive I/O, but more of a web server with one PCI-X channel for network and the other for storage (single AMD8131), then the Monarch solutions will do quite well. http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=allEmpro > It's going to be primarily a database server with some Web > application development against said database server taking > place. The datasets are of a moderate size, so 60GB of disk > space or more is estimated. I'm looking for something that's > SCA with RAID, preferably 4U in size. In that case, I'd look at the Monarch Empro series in a 2U: - Dual Opteron 200** series (upgrade option to dual-core) - (4) 1GB Registered ECC (best size for the buck now) - LSI Logic MegaRAID 320-2X** XScale-driven RAID (dual-U320) - (2) 73GB or 146GB U320 drives in RAID-1 for system - (6) 36+GB U320 drives for RAID-5 for data **NOTE: A PCIe mainboard with LSI Logic MegaRAID 320-2E (PCIe x8 card) is also an option. The costs will be about $300-500 for the mainboard, CPU will vary ($400-800 total for 2x Opteron 244-248), $800-1,000 for the 4GiB of memory (use 4 DIMMs for the full 256-bit memory interconnect, 128-bit/CPU -- if you only need 2GiB, then use 512MB DIMMs instead), $500-600 for the MegaRAID 320-2X, various prices for the drives. > The current machine is a dual P3 box with 2GB of PC133 ECC > RAM and an old Adaptec 2100-S RAID controller with 3 18GB > Seagate Cheetah 10Ks in a RAID 5 configuration. Ouch, old i960-based RAID, not capable at all. > Disks, redundancy, and disk accessibility are my primary > interests. Monarch can give you a redundant PS configuration in 2U. > The existing CPU and RAM have proven adequate for our > needs so far. Hmm, why change then? Maybe buy another, dual-P3 config for cheap? Or are you saying the disk could be better? I would definitely use RAID-1 for the system volumes, and RAID-5 for the web data. > Thoughts on vendors and such? As above. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 19:58:00 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... In-Reply-To: <1120629570.8014.85.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507060040.00112.jasonb@edseek.com> <1120629570.8014.85.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1120694280.10785.1.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 00:59 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > All I have right now is my "feel." > It could be other factors I'm not considering. I figured it out! Long story short, when I copied my mbox files over from one drive to another, they went from fragmented to contiguous. Sure enough, after 3-4 days of usage, they are now partially fragmented again, so indexing takes a bit longer. But I'm still seeing a significant boost. Maybe 50%+, but no where near the 3x I first saw. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From damien at mc-kenna.com Wed Jul 6 22:41:14 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <142738.1120692685732.JavaMail.root@wamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <142738.1120692685732.JavaMail.root@wamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <42CC964A.5010701@mc-kenna.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >If you want a tier-1 OEM, then the HP DL145, DL385 and DL585 >2x, 2x and 4x Opterons are your meal tickets. > Good stuff there, they've improved the line since I last looked at them. >- Tier-2: Monarch Computer > > Very good pricing, one to consider if I ever get one of my many workplaces to upgrade their servers. I must say that the Opteron CPUs & nForce Professional chipsets are making servers pretty fun these days. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From damien at mc-kenna.com Thu Jul 7 00:13:32 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Suggestions for how to manage satellite offices? Message-ID: <42CCABEC.6070703@mc-kenna.com> For one of my jobs they're going to be opening a second office. Their current office has a server (aka a desktop machine with a superiority complex) and use a 3rd party for web hosting & email. The server runs Windows 2003 and serves up files, printers & backups for the main office. They use many Windows-only applications and I don't believe are in a position to migrate to Linux (which IMHO would make many things easier). I had originally intended setting up a local mail server (Macallan Mail Server aka MMS) to work as a local access point for email. MMS has a cool feature in that it can fetch email from another host and store it in local mailboxes. With this my idea was to have the public mail server (MX records in the DNS) for the domain be the at the web hosting service, have MMS download the email into local mailboxes which can then be backed up & managed a bit more readily than if they were remote. For people working from home (mainly the owner) I was going to set up a VPN for him to log into to do his work. The second office will need access to the files from the first office and access to email. I'm not really sure how the second office will fit into my original plans above. Does anyone have suggestions on how I could manage the two offices' facilities? A VPN sounds like the obvious choice, but what about bandwidth usage (if the satellite office grows) and redundancy (if the VPN goes down they can't do any work)? Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 7 08:55:06 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <42CC964A.5010701@mc-kenna.com> References: <142738.1120692685732.JavaMail.root@wamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <42CC964A.5010701@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1120740906.4857.16.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 22:41 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > I must say that the Opteron CPUs & nForce Professional chipsets are > making servers pretty fun these days. Well, just remember the nForce Pro options (2200, 2200+2050) only give you HyperTransport tunnels to PCIe channels (20, 40), and not PCI- X. The lack of PCIecards (a few NICs, the MegaRAID 320-2E, not much else) right now is going to limit options. So until that changes, it's still ideal to get a system with one or more AMD8131 (or AMD8132) HyperTransport tunnels to PCI-X (2/each). All Tyan boards I've seen, including even the 4x Socket-940, put (1) AMD8131 on CPU #0. Most of the other 2x Socket-940 systems do the same, although the 4x Socket-940 DL585 puts (2) AMD8131 chips, one on each of two processors, and the SunFire V40z puts (3) AMD8131 chips, one on one processor (2 x 100MHz, 1 x 66MHz + on-board peripherals) and two on another (4 x full- speed 133MHz slots). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 7 09:37:15 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Suggestions for how to manage satellite offices? -- NetGear FVS124G/FVX538? In-Reply-To: <42CCABEC.6070703@mc-kenna.com> References: <42CCABEC.6070703@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1120743435.4857.51.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-07-07 at 00:13 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > They use many Windows-only applications and I don't believe are > in a position to migrate to Linux (which IMHO would make many things > easier). Well, just because they don't run Linux doesn't mean you can't introduce either Freedomware desktop solutions (with some planning/consideration if management is open to it) or, even more transparently, Freedomware server solutions. > I had originally intended setting up a local mail server (Macallan Mail > Server aka MMS) to work as a local access point for email. MMS has a > cool feature in that it can fetch email from another host and store it > in local mailboxes. Well, if MMS is what is working for you, I wouldn't change anything. BTW, is it just Freeware or actual Freedomware? > For people working from home (mainly the owner) I was going to set up a > VPN for him to log into to do his work. > The second office will need access to the files from the first office > and access to email. I'm not really sure how the second office will fit > into my original plans above. > Does anyone have suggestions on how I could manage the two offices' > facilities? A VPN sounds like the obvious choice, but what about > bandwidth usage (if the satellite office grows) and redundancy (if the > VPN goes down they can't do any work)? > Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks. If cost is an absolute issue, I've been recommending the new NetGear sub-$200 FVS124G and sub-$400 FVX538, although I have done no direct deployments of them myself. http://netgear.com/products/details/FVS124G.php http://netgear.com/products/details/FVX538.php The FVS124G is a 4-port GbE LAN and 2-port 100MbE WAN. The FVX538 is a 1-port GbE + 8-port 100MbE LAN and 2-port 100MbE WAN. Both 100MbE WAN ports can be used in a redundant** Internet configuration, when one fails, the other takes over**. There is included VPN software, as well as site-to-site, although there might be licensing considerations (which makes me assume this sucker runs VxWorks, not Linux). On the FVX538, one of the 100MbE ports can be a dedicated DMZ port (no such option on the FVS124G other than to use one of the LAN ports with everyone "exposed" -- although you could use one of the WAN ports for this). Now _internally_, things get interesting. Beyond the 16MB and 32MB of RAM, respectively, there some _serious_power_ in these boxen. ftp://download.intel.com/design/network/ProdBrf/25249603.pdf ftp://download.intel.com/design/network/ProdBrf/27905104.pdf The FVS124G uses a 266MHz Intel IXP422 (XScale + 2xNPE). The FVS538 uses a 533MHz Intel IXP425 (XScale + 3xNPE). The XScale, in case people aren't familiar, are probably the sole superscale (multiple-pipeline) microcontrollers out there -- based on the StrongARM licensed from Digital Semiconductor years ago. Split 32 +32KB instruction+data L1 cache. The IXP series adds peripherals to the core called Network Processor Elements (NPEs), which has its own, dedicated 8KB SRAM queue (I personally think they should have put more SRAM in, but at least the XScale has its 32KB data cache). Both products have one generic 100MbE MAC, and one hardware accelerated crypto 100MbE MAC. Hardware- accelerated capabilities include 56-bit DES, 168-bit 3DES and 128/192/256-bit AES symmetric ciphers plus both 160-bit SHA-1 and 128- bit MD5 hash algorithms. I didn't see 64/128-bit RC4 mentioned other than the fact that the XScale is more than capable of handling it. [ SIDE NOTE: The IXP425 actually has a 3rd NPE for VoIP, but it seems unused, at least from the NetGear specs. ] **FAILOVER NOTE: My only question is if the VPN can fail-over along with Internet connections? Although you're not setting up BGP, you could at least make each site aware of each other's failover connection. But I'm going to assume the answer is "NO" because the hardware accelerated symmetric/hash is on _only_ one 100MbE NPE. I've never tried the box personally in this configuration, but I thought I'd better mention this. The NetGear site is leaving me still asking the question and isn't much help. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Thu Jul 7 10:01:22 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Suggestions for how to manage satellite offices?-- NetGear FVS124G/FVX538? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AEB@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > On Thu, 2005-07-07 at 00:13 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > > They use many Windows-only applications and I don't believe are > > in a position to migrate to Linux (which IMHO would make > many things > > easier). > > Well, just because they don't run Linux doesn't mean you can't > introduce either Freedomware desktop solutions (with some > planning/consideration if management is open to it) or, even more > transparently, Freedomware server solutions. True. I need to test a Ubuntu CD to see if their printers will work, but last I remember they weren't listed. > > I had originally intended setting up a local mail server > > (Macallan Mail Server aka MMS) to work as a local access point > > for email. > > Well, if MMS is what is working for you, I wouldn't change anything. I haven't set it up yet, its on my todo list. > BTW, is it just Freeware or actual Freedomware? Freeware by some French guy. > If cost is an absolute issue, I've been recommending the new NetGear > sub-$200 FVS124G and sub-$400 FVX538, although I have done no direct > deployments of them myself. Thanks, I'll take a look at them and may just call Netgear directly to see if they have any suggestions on it. I do like the fact that the FVX538 supports multiple uplinks for failover, very nice for such a cheap product. So, would you suggest each person at the remote office having their own VPN connection to the HQ or should we use two FVX538's and VPN them together? Could the FVX538 even do that? Thanks again Bryan! -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 10:54:41 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Suggestions for how to manage satellite offices?-- NetGear FVS124G/FVX538? Message-ID: <26347472.1120748081300.JavaMail.root@wamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > True. I need to test a Ubuntu CD to see if their printers will work, > but last I remember they weren't listed. Well, I was thinking more along the lines of Firefox, OpenOffice.org, etc... on Windows. Especially Firefox to start if you have not yet. > Thanks, I'll take a look at them and may just call Netgear directly to > see if they have any suggestions on it. I do like the fact that the > FVX538 supports multiple uplinks for failover, very nice for such a > cheap product. The cheaper FVS124G does as well. I just liked the FVX538 for a "few bucks more" with the added power, and the ability to dedicate a LAN port as a DMZ. Now if you could do 2, that would be a DMZ _and_ your WLAN. ;-> > So, would you suggest each person at the remote office having > their own VPN connection to the HQ or should we use two FVX538's > and VPN them together? Could the FVX538 even do that? Both the FVS124G and FVX538 seem to do site-to-site. And yes, I recommend it over client-to-site, only use that for roaming users. Of course, VPNs are their own security nightmare, so always keep that in consideration. I.e., if one site is compromised, etc... But not many managers like to hear "what do you mean I can only access applications X, Y and Z over the VPN?" as they expect everything. @-p -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Thu Jul 7 11:01:19 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Suggestions for how to manage satellite offices?-- NetGear FVS124G/FVX538? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AF1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> I should have mentioned that the satellite office project is for a different company ;-) > From: Damien McKenna > > True. I need to test a Ubuntu CD to see if their printers > > will work, but last I remember they weren't listed. > > Well, I was thinking more along the lines of Firefox, OpenOffice.org, > etc... on Windows. Especially Firefox to start if you have not yet. I've already installed Firefox on all the workstations, I'm not sure on OOo for them just yet. > > I do like the fact that the FVX538 supports multiple uplinks > > for failover, very nice for such a cheap product. > > The cheaper FVS124G does as well. Cool. > I just liked the FVX538 for a "few bucks more" with the added power, > and the ability to dedicate a LAN port as a DMZ. Now if you could do > 2, that would be a DMZ _and_ your WLAN. ;-> I had originally mentioned Cisco PIX firewalls to the owner and he seemed ok with the idea of spending that much, so $350 should be fine. > > So, would you suggest each person at the remote office having > > their own VPN connection to the HQ or should we use two FVX538's > > and VPN them together? Could the FVX538 even do that? > > Both the FVS124G and FVX538 seem to do site-to-site. > And yes, I recommend it over client-to-site, only use that for > roaming users. Alrighty, I'm sold. > Of course, VPNs are their own security nightmare, so always > keep that in consideration. I.e., if one site is compromised, etc... > But not many managers like to hear "what do you mean I can > only access applications X, Y and Z over the VPN?" as they > expect everything. @-p That'll be part of the document I give them. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Thu Jul 7 12:32:15 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Suggestions for how to manage satellite offices?-- NetGear FVS124G/FVX538? Message-ID: <33442691.1120753936195.JavaMail.root@wamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > I've already installed Firefox on all the workstations, Cool. > I'm not sure on OOo for them just yet. As I said in the other thread, a switch to OOo should mean a switch of the underlying, default format (only using import/export as necessary). If a company is not ready to switch, then they should stick with MS Word. > I had originally mentioned Cisco PIX firewalls to the owner and he > seemed ok with the idea of spending that much, so $350 should be > fine. Cisco has solid solutions, but they are often costly. They bought Linksys to compete with DLink, Netgear and others. Netgear has continued to impress me with leading-edge solutions at commodity prices -- including managed switches and feature-rich stateful firewalls/VPNs. Cisco, Nortel, etc... are still the ideal solution when you have a large network you need to manage. But Bay did an excellent job in founding NetGear in the mid-'90s to address the rather large segment of SMBs that only needed a few backbone devices in only one or a handful of locations. > Alrighty, I'm sold. Just FYI, in the $500-5,000 space, Watchguard (Linux) and SonicWall (VxWorks) have traditionally been the SMB solutions deployed. But NetGear continues to lead the sub-$500 or sub-$1,000 space with a few others -- hence Cisco's acquisition then. I need to see what the Cisco-Linksys front is doing. I know they have incorporated the IXP products, but I just haven't heard many people attest to them. > That'll be part of the document I give them. Well, I'd do a search of anything that uses the IXP and see what's out there. They're _might_ be a better solution. I just haven't had the chance to research much. And several people seem to like those NetGear solutions. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 7 19:35:24 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Monarch Computer: GeForce 6800 Ultra 512MB for $460 (shipped) ... Message-ID: <1120779325.6612.5.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Damn, had I only waited 3 months, I could have had this monster for about the same price as my GeForce 6800GT 256MB: http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv? Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=190178&AFFIL=TH&NR=1 I know it doesn't make too much difference on games at standard resolutions and FSAA, but if you pump up the FSAA and other settings at 1280x1024 or 1600x1200, boy does it add up. Monarch seems to be selling it -- full retail box -- at almost $250 cheaper than NewEgg! -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From philb at philb.us Thu Jul 7 21:40:58 2005 From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <1120629384.8014.81.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507060011.28150.philb@philb.us> <1120629384.8014.81.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507072140.58766.philb@philb.us> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 01:56 am, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > No. ?Sun/OpenOffice.org _continues_ to support _all_ formats, prior and > current ... So, I fail to see where the problem is. I save it I can open it. So what if Microsoft decides to go somewhere else? I don't have a dog in that hunt if I'm using OOo everywhere. I can use OOo forever. No license. This is not a cross contamination issue. -- "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -Mark Twain From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 7 22:20:23 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <200507072140.58766.philb@philb.us> References: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507060011.28150.philb@philb.us> <1120629384.8014.81.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507072140.58766.philb@philb.us> Message-ID: <1120789223.6965.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-07-07 at 21:40 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > So, I fail to see where the problem is. The problem isn't with OOo formats. The problem is using OOo to read/save MSO formats by default. > I save it I can open it. OOo will save what features it can to a MSO format. It's good, even better in 2.0, but not perfect. That's where the problem comes in. By saving to MSO formats by default, you'll have users create some portions of document, only to _lose_them_ when they open it again. They'll also be bombarded (by default) with the "warning" on saving to a MSO format when a portions of their document won't be saved. That pretty much happens with _all_ the documents I create. > So what if Microsoft decides to go somewhere else? My point was that now is the (like any prior) time to create all _new_ content in OOo formats. Because it's nice to open something 5 years from now and not lose anything, and be ready-to-edit without issue. At the same time, yes, you can read/save to MSO as needed. But you don't want to be doing that by default. It not only creates more headaches, but the issues will quickly get management to dismiss OOo as even an option. So if you're going to adopt OOo, limit your reading/saving of/to MSO formats as much as you can, and use OOo formats natively. By saving to MSO formats by default, you're just creating _more_ headaches than using MSO itself -- and that's exactly what management will see. > I don't have a dog in that hunt if I'm using OOo everywhere. > I can use OOo forever. No license. Exactly. If you use OOo as save to ODT (or SXW in 1.x) by default, you'll have *0* issues when users pull up a document they saved earlier -- let alone created with a different version. That does not create any more issues for yourself. But you do _exactly_ that when you set MSO as your default format. You will have users saving and losing information. > This is not a cross contamination issue. ??? I think we're talking the same, but just misunderstanding each other ??? -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From damien at mc-kenna.com Fri Jul 8 01:12:23 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Quantum DLT4000, three lights flashing In-Reply-To: <42A784A2.7040507@mc-kenna.com> References: <42A784A2.7040507@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <42CE0B37.6050906@mc-kenna.com> Well I finally got a cleaning tape, only to realize when it arrived that I got a "Cleaning Tape III" and not IV. I kicked the DLT drive enough (only joking) until it ejected the tape that was in it then put in the cleaning tape. With the cleaning tape in it did exactly the same thing as before - it'd flash the "Tape in use" light for a little while then all the lights on the right side flash. According to the drive's manual (from the Quantum website) it seems this means the drive is in an error state; hitting the Unload button doesn't do anything beyond cycling the drive back into a reset then back into the error state again. One question to the gallery, anyone know how to query the drive to see what its status is? The manual says: Byte 18 of the REQUEST SENSE data has two formats: a byte code and a bit flags format. The bit flags format is used when there is no internal status code to report and can be quickly distinguished by checking to see if bit 7 of byte 18 is set to 1. so how would I obtain this from the drive? I'm currently running Windows XP Home but I can boot up in Knoppix if that would open up any avenues? Any help would be appreciated, I really want to get this drive working. Thanks. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 8 07:22:37 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Quantum DLT4000, three lights flashing In-Reply-To: <42CE0B37.6050906@mc-kenna.com> References: <42A784A2.7040507@mc-kenna.com> <42CE0B37.6050906@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1120821757.7651.17.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Fri, 2005-07-08 at 01:12 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > One question to the gallery, anyone know how to query the drive to see > what its status is? The manual says: > Byte 18 of the REQUEST SENSE data has two formats: a byte code > and a bit flags format. The bit flags format is used when there is no > internal status code to report and can be quickly distinguished by > checking to see if bit 7 of byte 18 is set to 1. Write a segment of C code to send the REQUEST SENSE command over the SCSI bus. There might be a way to do this in some sort of "debugger" by directly writing to the port. > so how would I obtain this from the drive? I'm currently running > Windows XP Home but I can boot up in Knoppix if that would open up any > avenues? > Any help would be appreciated, I really want to get this drive working. > Thanks. I'd hit HP's support website and see what utilities they already have. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 8 09:21:41 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Quantum DLT4000, three lights flashing Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858B13@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > > One question to the gallery, anyone know how to query the > > drive to see what its status is? > > Write a segment of C code to send the REQUEST SENSE command over the > SCSI bus. There might be a way to do this in some sort of > "debugger" by directly writing to the port. I wish it was that easy for me. > > so how would I obtain this from the drive? I'm currently running > > Windows XP Home but I can boot up in Knoppix if that would > > open up any avenues? > > I'd hit HP's support website and see what utilities they already have. I found: http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareDescription.jsp ?locale=en_US&lang=English+%28US%29&pnameOID=12257&prodSeriesId=63896&pr odTypeId=12169&basePartNum=COL1977&locBasepartNum=co-32088-1&os=Microsof t+Windows+XP+Professional&tech=Diagnostic I'll try it tonight. Quantum's website has a diagnostic tool but you have to use an Adaptec SCSI card, I've got an Advansys. I'm going to pop by the office of my second job, I got an Adaptec SCSI card off Dan Cherry and I'll test it there. Thanks again Bryan. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 8 09:22:31 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Monarch Computer: GeForce 6800 Ultra 512MB for $460(shipped) ... Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858B14@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Under what circumstances would you need 512meg on a video card? From what I read lately it didn't seem to be worth the extra cost. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 8 09:34:29 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Quantum DLT4000, three lights flashing Message-ID: <19921492.1120829669879.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > I wish it was that easy for me. I always thought things were difficult until I just finally entered "debug" in DOS long ago and started sending data in and out of ports, or setting up registers and calling interrupts, with direct assembly. Today, it's actually a bit easier to do that in UNIX/Linux by just writing and reading binary data directly from /dev/* files. A little C here, a little C there -- heck, Perl might not be out-of-the-question. > Quantum's website has a diagnostic tool but you have to use an Adaptec > SCSI card, I've got an Advansys. I'm going to pop by the office of my > second job, I got an Adaptec SCSI card off Dan Cherry and I'll test it > there. Yeah, that's the PITA with an OS with_out_ standards (such as DOS), you have adapter-specific issues. If vendors would adopt Linux for diagnostics, you wouldn't have such issues -- especially with today's live CDs. And unlike Windows PE, it's not illegal to distribute a Linux Live CD. Some vendors _are_ moving to adopt Linux Live CDs for diagnostics though. Heck, last time I checked, there was a movement to use Linux Live CDs for on-line banking. > Thanks again Bryan. I don't know if I helped much. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 8 09:39:49 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Monarch Computer: GeForce 6800 Ultra 512MB for $460(shipped) ... Message-ID: <14958178.1120829989490.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > Under what circumstances would you need 512meg on a video card? When you want to jack up the FSAA to 4x4, isotropic filtering to even higher, etc... You suddenly go from a X+Y+Z buffer requirement of only 24MB to _greater_ than 256MB at 1600x1200, or even 1280x1024 in some cases. And at the power of a GeForce 6800 Ultra or 7800 GTX, you _can_ still get 30fps at many DirectX/OpenGL titles with that image quality (whereas it might be not even 1fps on a GeForce FX5200, 5500, 5700LE). I personally _never_ run with anything less than FSAA 4x4, and people always go "wow, why does your card look so good?" Because there's no jaggies! ;-> > From what I read lately it didn't seem to be worth the extra cost. Not for most users interested in ultra-high refresh rates. Image quality just brings down the performance. That's why these reviews are missing the point. Jack up Doom3 to 1600x1200 and jack up the image quality settings, and you'll quickly see why 512MB does matter. Not many reviews have done that, because they want at least 60fps. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From damien at mc-kenna.com Fri Jul 8 20:43:28 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] What to do - NewEgg is replacing/refunding me for faulty Geforce 6200 Message-ID: <42CF1DB0.2090601@mc-kenna.com> The nVidia Geforce 6200 PCI-Express card I got in January went sour this past week and the particular one I got has been discontinued. They've just let me know that within the next two days they'll send me an offer for either the exchange of a comparable product or refund for its "current market value". The question is, given that Geforce 6200 cards are worth $80+, would it be worth my while simply getting another similar card or upgrading to something higher-end, like a 6600? I've always been interested in having a good video capture card but there seem to be so few on the market today that are PCI-Express-based. For $100 they have a ATI Radeon X600 Pro card with VIVO (http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/x600-pro.asp) which seems interesting, but do Radeon cards have the same problems they used to running on nVidia chipsets? Suggestions? -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From damien at mc-kenna.com Fri Jul 8 21:55:46 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Solved: DLT4000 problem Message-ID: <20050708215546.iuyqm6mdxk0ggs8c@www.mc-kenna.com> Last night, around 2am, after two frustrating trying to find software to tell me what was wrong with my DLT drive I found a company with a Florida office that repaired DLT drives. On the spur of the moment I sent them off an email asking if they would mind taking a sec to see what they thought of my drive based a description of its symptoms. This morning I got a reply back from a guy called Jeff Korte who suggested it might be the leader that was faulty. I asked back if he knew of any documentation on how to repair it, and he emailed me back a quick guide on what to do & look for. Tonight took out the drive and, with a little help from a page I found on Google once I knew what to look for, was able to find that in fact the leader was *flapping* *in* *the* *breeze!* The silly thing was just sitting happy as Larry in the internal spool. So tomorrow I'm going to pick up some cotton gloves and thread it back in. Jeff works for a company called Pinetree Peripherals 1nc (http://www.pine1nc.com) and they have locations in Texas, Florida, Colorado and Germany. They do sales and support for what looks like all sorts of tape drives. Incidentally, I bought two drives at the same time and am currently running the second one through its paces with Quantum's DLTSage xTalk diagnostics program to see if there are any undocumented features with it. Thanks Jeff! -- Damien McKenna, Husband, Father, Geek http://www.mc-kenna.com/ - damien@mc-kenna.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From damien at mc-kenna.com Fri Jul 8 22:03:20 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) Message-ID: <20050708220320.biuvqkuc8qf44osk@www.mc-kenna.com> Now that my DLT woes are nearly over, does anyone have a recommendation on what software to use for doing backups on a Windows XP Home machine? I'm intending splitting up the backup schedule in two - one for regular data and one for pictures we take with our digital camera (I'm going to start keeping the original tapes of all footage from our miniDV camcorder so that isn't an issue right now). Programs I'm looking at include NTBackup, Genie Backup 6 Home and Backup MyPC. NTBackup lacks a lot of features in comparison to the other two but is free. One concern I have is that they use a standard backup format, right now I'm not sure what format any of them use, but I'd ideally like to be able to access the data from other tools if possible (e.g. boot up Ubuntu and do some queries on it). Because I use FAT32 I *could* use a Linux tool, maybe spin myself a custom liveCD or something (or simply take the few seconds to install e.g. Ubuntu), so that is an option. Also, I've got cygwin installed, which opens up yet more options. So any suggestions? Thanks. -- Damien McKenna, Husband, Father, Geek http://www.mc-kenna.com/ - damien@mc-kenna.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 8 22:37:25 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bryan=20J=2E=20Smith?=) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) Message-ID: From: Damien McKenna > Programs I'm looking at include NTBackup, Genie Backup 6 Home and Backup MyPC. > NTBackup lacks a lot of features in comparison to the other two but is free. > One concern I have is that they use a standard backup format, > right now I'm not sure what format any of them use, > but I'd ideally like to be able to access the data from other tools if possible > (e.g. boot up Ubuntu and do some queries on it). Well, Microsoft's Backup uses an aged Backup Exec format, but most Backup Exec programs can read it. It is just "crippled" with file number/index limitations (that I found out about much later). I've found many smaller departments (even in large corporations) have stuck with Backup Exec, even for UNIX platforms. I can't attest to the format of the other products mentioned. Also don't forget that NT5+ comes with "pax" (POSIX/SUS replacement for cpio/tar), although I don't know how capable the NT version is for backing up NT ACL/SID info. But that shouldn't matter of you're running on FAT32. Also don't forget that rsync to a Linux box is always an option too. From damien at mc-kenna.com Fri Jul 8 23:31:39 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) Message-ID: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> Quoting "Bryan J. Smith" : > Well, Microsoft's Backup uses an aged Backup Exec format, but most > Backup Exec programs can read it. > It is just "crippled" with file number/index limitations (that I > found out about much later). Fairly reasonable, if only it wasn't so limited. I need to look into the other programs too. > Also don't forget that NT5+ comes with "pax" (POSIX/SUS replacement > for cpio/tar), although I don't know how capable the NT version is > for backing up NT ACL/SID info. > But that shouldn't matter of you're running on FAT32. Indeed. I'll look that one up, thanks. > Also don't forget that rsync to a Linux box is always an option too. No it isn't :-P this is a one gun house IYKWIM. At that rate I would have just bought two external firewire drives, but I wanted to have something easier to handle & archive, hence tapes. -- Damien McKenna, Husband, Father, Geek http://www.mc-kenna.com/ - damien@mc-kenna.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 9 00:16:56 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> References: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Fri, 2005-07-08 at 23:31 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Indeed. I'll look that one up, thanks. The great thing about pax is that it's designed for backward compatibility -- it's all standard USTAR format until you start using the extended features. > No it isn't :-P this is a one gun house IYKWIM. I meant to a remote site -- for very important stuff that should be small. > At that rate I would have just bought two external firewire drives, Actually, commodity disk is the _worst_thing_ for off-line storage. They are not designed to be spun down for a duration. > but I wanted to have something easier to handle & archive, hence tapes. Tape cartridge remains the best, off-line backup solution. Removable Rigid Disk (RRD) offers disk's random access advantage, while improving off-line reliability and longevity, but brings back the issues of cost and size. So it's no better than tape. If you want to hear more, pick up 2005 September Sys Admin. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 9 17:28:09 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Tom's Hardware updates AGP performance charts ... Message-ID: <1120944489.4837.69.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Just wanted to point out that Tom's Hardware has updated his AGP performance charts: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050705/index.html Even the GeForce 5900/5950 "Ultra" can't match the GeForce 6600 in many benchmarks, and runs far, far cooler. Unfortunately, there are two very important cards missing: 1. The GeForce FX5700"LE" -- the common superstore model At a 250MHz clock, it is 175MHz _slower_ than -- not even 60% of -- the full 425MHz FX5700 that Tom's using in his reviews. Keep that in mind, it's a _major_ difference. ;-> 2. The GeForce 6200 AGP -- now approaching $75 The new GeForce 6200 AGP is a nice alternative to the ultra-crappy FX5500 for about the same price (even when on sale), and not much more than a FX5200, which you should bother paying more than $25 for. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Sat Jul 9 18:07:03 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Tom's Hardware updates AGP performance charts ... In-Reply-To: <1120944489.4837.69.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120944489.4837.69.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507091807.03791.jasonb@edseek.com> On Saturday 09 July 2005 17:28, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The new GeForce 6200 AGP is a nice alternative to the ultra-crappy > FX5500 for about the same price (even when on sale), and not much more > than a FX5200, which you should bother paying more than $25 for. I think the FX5200 that shipped with my Dell at work is crippled beyond the retail version even. It's just _not_ fun... -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 9 19:07:47 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Tom's Hardware updates AGP performance charts ... In-Reply-To: <200507091807.03791.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <1120944489.4837.69.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507091807.03791.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1120950467.5625.28.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-09 at 18:07 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > I think the FX5200 that shipped with my Dell at work is crippled beyond the > retail version even. It's just _not_ fun... The FX5200 is a dog. Just hit Tom's older VGA Charts (IV?) on how much even an older GeForce4 Ti4200 whips it -- even at newer games that it was never designed for. By the time the features are jacked up so the FX5200/5500 "competes" with a GeForce4 Ti4200, they are all doing <<10fps in many cases. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From damien at mc-kenna.com Sun Jul 10 07:20:13 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42D1046D.10508@mc-kenna.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >The great thing about pax is that it's designed for backward >compatibility -- it's all standard USTAR format until you start using >the extended features. > > So where do you get it from? I can't find it in my Windows XP installation, or CygWin. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 10 10:50:30 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <42D1046D.10508@mc-kenna.com> References: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D1046D.10508@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1121007030.4821.10.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-10 at 07:20 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > So where do you get it from? I can't find it in my Windows XP > installation, or CygWin. Hmmm, I thought it was included with Windows 2000+, maybe a service pack? I bet I see it because I've installed (the free) Services for UNIX (SFU) because I know it's in the MKS and/or Interix suites (depending on your SFU version). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 10 10:52:12 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <1121007030.4821.10.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D1046D.10508@mc-kenna.com> <1121007030.4821.10.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1121007132.4821.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-10 at 09:50 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Hmmm, I thought it was included with Windows 2000+, maybe a > service pack? > I bet I see it because I've installed (the free) Services for > UNIX (SFU) because I know it's in the MKS and/or Interix suites > (depending on your SFU version). Ahhh, I think it's now making sense, SFU only runs on "Pro": http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/sfu/productinfo/sysreqs/default.mspx I think "pax" itself is included with stock Windows 2000/XP "Pro," although it is also included with SFU as well. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From damien at mc-kenna.com Sun Jul 10 11:19:44 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <1121007132.4821.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D1046D.10508@mc-kenna.com> <1121007030.4821.10.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1121007132.4821.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42D13C90.9050007@mc-kenna.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >Ahhh, I think it's now making sense, SFU only runs on "Pro": > > :-( >I think "pax" itself is included with stock Windows 2000/XP "Pro," >although it is also included with SFU as well. > > Nopers, I checked an XP Pro SP2 machine, no PAX. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From damien at mc-kenna.com Sun Jul 10 11:20:36 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <1121007132.4821.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D1046D.10508@mc-kenna.com> <1121007030.4821.10.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1121007132.4821.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42D13CC4.8090709@mc-kenna.com> Another idea then, how would I get it for CygWin? -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 10 13:18:31 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <42D13C90.9050007@mc-kenna.com> References: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D1046D.10508@mc-kenna.com> <1121007030.4821.10.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1121007132.4821.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D13C90.9050007@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1121015912.4779.0.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-10 at 11:19 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Nopers, I checked an XP Pro SP2 machine, no PAX. Yep, I just found out. Pax _is_ included with 2000 Pro but _not_ XP Pro. You have to load SFU to get it on XP Pro. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 10 13:27:22 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <42D13CC4.8090709@mc-kenna.com> References: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D1046D.10508@mc-kenna.com> <1121007030.4821.10.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1121007132.4821.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D13CC4.8090709@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1121016442.4779.6.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-10 at 11:20 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Another idea then, how would I get it for CygWin? First off, I'm not sure it's part of Cygwin yet. Download the setup.exe from http://www.cygwin.org and look through the list. I didn't see it as a separate package in the file list, but it could (and should) be a standard utility now given POSIX/SUS standardization. Then again, Jorg's star has typically been far more POSIX/SUS compatible than GNU (and its tar) anyway. Secondly, you have to consider the "value" of a Cygwin "pax" versus a true Windows 2000/XP "pax." The former will use POSIX paths and values for USTAR (pax) extended attributes, and will not tie into the Windows extended attributes that 2000's "pax" could store. Although I never did any major, formal testing, I wanted to say that 2000 Pro's "pax" could store some NTFS meta-data, but don't quote me. I really need to do a study of how "Windows native" the "pax" utility is in different programs. It _would_ be nice if it could use the "pax" EAs to store NTFS/Windows-only stuff. "pax" is merely an extensible USTAR format, so I don't see why not at least basic SID info can't be stored. Although that _could_ be why Microsoft removed it in XP/2003, because it wasn't working well. Hence they UNIX-only "pax" in the Interix component of more recent SFU (it used to be MKS' toolkit in earlier versions). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 10 13:35:33 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <1121016442.4779.6.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <20050708233139.wh6ncukidm1cccck@www.mc-kenna.com> <1120882616.4837.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D1046D.10508@mc-kenna.com> <1121007030.4821.10.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1121007132.4821.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42D13CC4.8090709@mc-kenna.com> <1121016442.4779.6.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1121016933.4779.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-10 at 12:27 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Secondly, you have to consider the "value" of a Cygwin "pax" versus a > true Windows 2000/XP "pax." The former will use POSIX paths and values > for USTAR (pax) extended attributes, and will not tie into the Windows > extended attributes that 2000's "pax" could store. Although I never did > any major, formal testing, I wanted to say that 2000 Pro's "pax" could > store some NTFS meta-data, but don't quote me. > I really need to do a study of how "Windows native" the "pax" utility is > in different programs. It _would_ be nice if it could use the "pax" EAs > to store NTFS/Windows-only stuff. "pax" is merely an extensible USTAR > format, so I don't see why not at least basic SID info can't be stored. > Although that _could_ be why Microsoft removed it in XP/2003, because it > wasn't working well. Hence they UNIX-only "pax" in the Interix > component of more recent SFU (it used to be MKS' toolkit in earlier > versions). Traditionally there has been CygWin, which provides a POSIX environment atop of Windows, so you're not getting full Windows details. http://www.cygwin.com/ Then there as been MinGW, which is a porting kit to Windows with more native DOS/NT compatibility (drive letters, registry access, etc...): http://www.mingw.org/ Now I don't see a "pax" for the latter either, but it might be included somewhere. Don't quote me. Otherwise, there _is_ a "BsdTar" program for Windows that claims to do full POSIX/SUS USTAR/pax: http://sourceforge.net/project/shownotes.php?release_id=323655 It's part of the GnuWin32 suite: http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/ Again, I don't know how "native" it is to Windows though. Also, for completeness, it doesn't appear that there is a Windows version of Jorg's Star -- and it is clearly POSIX-focused anyway: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/old/private/star.html Hmmm, I guess I'm looking for the (vaporware?) ideal of a USTAR compatible format that can store NT's Registry-SAM, NTFS meta-data, etc... Maybe it's a matter of using NT's backup to do the "system" portion, then storing that with files in a USTAR format with whatever tools are available. I know I'm probably not the only schmuck who has been looking for this. I'll research it when I have more time. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Sun Jul 10 15:17:58 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858B41@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > Secondly, you have to consider the "value" of a Cygwin "pax" versus a > true Windows 2000/XP "pax." The former will use POSIX paths > and values for USTAR (pax) extended attributes, and will not tie into > the Windows extended attributes that 2000's "pax" could store. I'm personally not concerned about extended attributes in the slightest, but paths could be an issue. I'll see if I can find it and do some tests. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 11 08:59:59 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD 64 DVD / Debian or Suse -- *NO* 8x DL yet In-Reply-To: <42C7324F.8050700@sbaflorida.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678911@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1119645004.6276.23.camel@suse.something.com> <42BCAD98.50006@mc-kenna.com> <1119823648.5863.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42C7324F.8050700@sbaflorida.com> Message-ID: <1121086799.4740.11.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Fri, 2005-06-24 at 21:04 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > I'm talking about the media and technology as a whole. If you have to > pay extra for them over a non-DL drive Bryan J. Smith wrote: > You don't. The LG Electronics GSA-4163 is $50 today. > For that, you get: > Write-Once: > - CD-R 40x > - DVD-R 8x - DVD+R 16x (CAV) - DVD+R-DL 4x (CAV) > Rewrite: > - CD-RW 16x (CLV) - CD-RW 24x (CAV) > - DVD-RAM 5x (CLV) - DVD-RW 6x (CLV) - DVD+RW 8x (CAV) BTW, it look like the DVD+R-DL 4x is "CLV" -- even in the Sony DRU-800A. I need to research what "Z-CLV" (Zoned CLV -- hmmm, sounds like CAV with some MO spacing/control) and "P-CLV/CAV" are (especially for my FAQ). On Fri, 2005-06-24 at 21:04 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Then again, I didn't realize they'd gotten to 8x on DL yet. Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Hmmm, I wasn't aware either. Must be only in brand new drives. *NOPE*! There is _no_ 8x capable dual-layer drive! Even the Sony DRU-800A is only 4x. When people advertise it as a "DVD 16x burner with dual-layer" they mean 16x for the DVD+R _single_ layer. On Sat, 2005-07-02 at 20:33 -0400, Homer Whittaker wrote: > I just purchased a Toshiba SD-R5372 16X DVD for 39.xx from mwave. Is > this 16x the same measurement as the 8X you are talking about? > Homer Whittaker > * 5X DVD+R DL Write > * 16X DVD+R Write > * 6X DVD-RW Write * > * 8X DVD+RW Write* > * 16X DVD-R Write Capable* Hmmm, interesting on the "5x DL DVD+R." Also looks like they boost the DVD-R to 12x and 16x and DVD-RW to 8x. In any case, you've got about the fastest drive available. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Mon Jul 11 13:16:33 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Bryan, the rest of the world catches on to your Apple-Intel idea Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858B72@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> http://arstechnica.com/columns/mac/mac-20050710.ars -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20050711/c3d64a97/attachment.html From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 11 13:26:45 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Bryan, the rest of the world catches on to your Apple-Intel idea In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858B72@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858B72@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1121102805.6667.1.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2005-07-11 at 13:16 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > http://arstechnica.com/columns/mac/mac-20050710.ars Well, to me, it's common sense. Economies-of-sale is king. With Power/PowerPC, IBM had more customers who wanted 10x the volume for 10x the run (3+ years). With P4, Apple just taps whatever Intel's already selling to everyone else. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 11 13:56:40 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Fujitsu or Seagate SCSI? Message-ID: <200507111356.41141.jasonb@edseek.com> I notice on Newegg you can buy Seagate or Fujitsu SCSI disks. Does anyone have a preference? From damien at mc-kenna.com Mon Jul 11 21:02:52 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] What to do - NewEgg is replacing/refunding me for faulty Geforce 6200 In-Reply-To: <42CF1DB0.2090601@mc-kenna.com> References: <42CF1DB0.2090601@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <42D316BC.8080309@mc-kenna.com> They offered either a replacement or a refund. The replacement is a Geforce 6200 256meg card. The fun part is that if I put another $12 with what they're offering as a refund I can get a 256meg 6600 card! Guess what I'm going to do :-) -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From damien at mc-kenna.com Mon Jul 11 22:57:12 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] What to do - NewEgg is replacing/refunding me for faulty Geforce 6200 In-Reply-To: <42D316BC.8080309@mc-kenna.com> References: <42CF1DB0.2090601@mc-kenna.com> <42D316BC.8080309@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <42D33188.8060609@mc-kenna.com> Then again, there's always this for little over $100: http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=RX600XT-VTD128E&class=vga Looks like a pretty good card which a huge software bundle. Looking at Tom's PCI-Express roundup paints a frustrating picture: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050524/vga_charts-07.html Frustrating because the only PCI-Express cards that have video *in* seem to be underpowered ATI cards :-( I really wish that nVidia had a video-in-video-out version of their 6x00 range, their cards are currently 1/4+ faster than comparably priced ATI cards. Bummer. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 12 08:56:12 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] AnandTech looks at DVD Recorders/Rewriters ... Message-ID: <1121172972.7389.29.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Not surprisingly, the "everything"** $50 LG GSA4163 was _the_ fastest at DVD-R/+R recording and has one of the least amount of DVD-R/+R PI errors (even if its read is slower). http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2470 **Write: 16x DVD-R 16x DVD+R 4x DVD+R DL 40x CD-R **Re-write: 5x DVD-RAM 6x DVD-RW 8x DVD+RW 24x CD-RW -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 12 09:29:03 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AnandTech looks at DVD Recorders/Rewriters ... In-Reply-To: <1121172972.7389.29.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1121172972.7389.29.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1121174943.7389.42.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-12 at 07:56 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Not surprisingly, the "everything"** $50 LG GSA4163 was _the_ fastest at > DVD-R/+R recording and has one of the least amount of DVD-R/+R PI errors > (even if its read is slower). > http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2470 The article also does a good job showing how poor the Pioneer drives are at DVD+R, which should explain at least one list member's distain for Pioneer. But it was nice to see the LG do well. I don't agree with the Anand team's choice in media, which explains why the LG couldn't read one media type it wrote. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 12 09:31:04 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AnandTech looks at DVD Recorders/Rewriters ... In-Reply-To: <1121174943.7389.42.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1121172972.7389.29.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1121174943.7389.42.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1121175064.7389.46.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-12 at 08:29 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The article also does a good job showing how poor the Pioneer drives > are at DVD+R, which should explain at least one list member's distain > for Pioneer. Ooops! Wrong list. Long story short, we have a guy over on the DVDRTools list that doesn't understand the fundamental differences between DVD-R and DVD+R/+RW. He generally annoys everyone because the CDRTools/ProDVD/DVDRTools are clearly made for DVD-R, but he didn't know the differences from DVD +R/+RW (although he did finally admit that he had compatibility issues with DVD+R/+RW until the last 18 months). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 12 09:46:17 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] What to do - NewEgg is replacing/refunding me forfaulty Geforce 6200 Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1083EE6@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> I decided to go for the Geforce 6600, it'll give me a better card and I'll use my Iomega Buz via Linux for doing video grabbing; I'm using the Buz for my SCSI tape drive anyway so I might as well use the video capture too. Damien -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2718 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20050712/d6d5d9d2/attachment.bin From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 12 10:24:50 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] What to do - NewEgg is replacing/refunding me forfaulty Geforce 6200 Message-ID: <9740653.1121178290466.JavaMail.root@wamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > I decided to go for the Geforce 6600, it'll give me a better > card and I'll use my Iomega Buz via Linux for doing video > grabbing; I'm using the Buz for my SCSI tape drive anyway > so I might as well use the video capture too. How is the Advansys driver in kernel 2.6? I haven't tried it since I yanked the card. Or are you still running 2.4? -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 12 11:01:15 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] What to do - NewEgg is replacing/refunding meforfaulty Geforce 6200 Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1083EE7@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > How is the Advansys driver in kernel 2.6? > I haven't tried it since I yanked the card. I don't have it plugged in right now as I'm using a PCI video card until I get the replacement PCI-Express card. I've not tried it yet, I'll let you know. Damien -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20050712/bb83d05c/attachment.bin From jasonb at edseek.com Tue Jul 12 11:17:14 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Fujitsu or Seagate SCSI? In-Reply-To: <200507111356.41141.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <200507111356.41141.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <200507121117.14611.jasonb@edseek.com> On Monday 11 July 2005 13:56, Jason Boxman wrote: > I notice on Newegg you can buy Seagate or Fujitsu SCSI disks. > > Does anyone have a preference? I'd accept, "Jason, that's a stupid question, go away." Better than silence. From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 12 11:38:27 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Fujitsu or Seagate SCSI? Message-ID: <5858467.1121182707959.JavaMail.root@wamui-huard.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Jason Boxman > I'd accept, "Jason, that's a stupid question, go away." > Better than silence. I wasn't sure if Fujistu fab'd their own disks. I think so, but I'm not familiar with their process. As far as Seagate, it depends. Seagate has "commodity" SCSI disks up to 7,200rpm that roll off the same line as their ATA/SATA. So be careful on price. You can typically tell these disks by their capacity, 80, 120, 160, 200, 250, 300, 320, 400, 500GB. The more "enterprise" SCSI disks are typically 10,000rpm or faster, and capacities of 9, 18, 36, 73, 146GB. The "main difference" between the former and latter is the quality of the balance in the platters. The vibration of the former is 3-8x worse than the latter, adding in other factors such as materials and quality and it's not good for 24x7 operation. Thus, the longevity and the MTBF of the former is only 30% of the latter (1.4M to 0.4M), with the latter rated _only_ for 50,000 restarts at 8hours/start. There are some new "near-line" products from Seagate that are commodity disks tested to higher tolerances, but they are still rated to be "network managed 24x7" -- meaning the platters do not actually operate 24x7, just the system they are in. BTW, Seagate's new commodity disks _are_ rated to 60C, so that's nice (hence the return to 5 year warranties). But they still have the vibration aspects that wear out faster. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From GrokWeeble at HotPOP.com Tue Jul 12 18:39:04 2005 From: GrokWeeble at HotPOP.com (Mike Webb) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <20050709160114.D9C8816D710E@mx3.hotpop.com> Message-ID: <42D40038.3035.606614@localhost> > Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 22:03:20 -0400 > From: Damien McKenna > > Now that my DLT woes are nearly over, does anyone have a recommendation on > what software to use for doing backups on a Windows XP Home machine?... > Programs I'm looking at include NTBackup, Genie Backup 6 Home and Backup > MyPC. Damien, I'm just getting to your post, but I think I have some insight from a different angle than the others--I know next to nothing about backup in the *nix world, but have a decent amount of experience with MS Windows backup. I think the others have spoken to the issue of NTBackup, and I have no knowledge of Genie Backup 6. I've been using BackUp MyPC and its predecessors going back to Conner Backup Exec for DOS--about 8 years. I've been pleased overall with the program in its various iterations. It had the features I looked for when I first moved from floppies to tape some years ago and wanted a good replacement for Central Point Backup (part of PC Tools, if you remember that far back). It does full backup, full copy, incremental and differential backup. It'll do an optional compare run at the end of the backup run to verify that the backup is good. It supports media spanning and supports both CD and DVD recordable media, and has a special disaster recovery feature that allows you to boot off floppies or CD/DVD and dump your backup right back in, LFNs and all. The only irritating thing (IMHO) about BackUp MyPC was finally remedied in the new version. In earlier versions, if Backup Exec/BackUp MyPC hit a defective piece of media, the whole backup pooped out and you had to start all over. Now it prompts you for a replacement piece of media and picks up where it left off at the end of the previous media. One thing to be aware of in the new version; I don't know if they changed the formatting method, the compression method or what, but BackUp MyPC 2005 and earlier versions cannot read each others' backups. If that's not an issue for you, go for it! BTW, if you want to check 'em out before buying, you can download trial versions at: http://www.stompsoft.com (BackUp MyPC) http://www.genie-soft.com (Genie Backup) FYI, the Genie Soft site does not mention a Genie Backup Home version 6; just version 5. Only the Pro version is in version 6. One question for the others; this "Pax" utility you've been discussing-- does it back up to CD/DVD, spanning media and the other stuff I mentioned above that I like about BackUp MyPC? I'm slowly working toward setting up a dual-boot Win/Lin system and will be looking for a backup program I can use on the Linux side. Thanks! -- My Groklaw nym is Weeble. It came from the "Spiderweeb" and "Weeb" kind of nicknames a kid named Webb gets. I never even knew of the Hasbro product until after I started using "Weeble". Take note, any Hasbro attorneys. From damien at mc-kenna.com Tue Jul 12 17:45:33 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backup software suggestions (Windows, Cygwin or Linux) In-Reply-To: <42D40038.3035.606614@localhost> References: <42D40038.3035.606614@localhost> Message-ID: <20050712174533.8k0trihq4xvocckc@www.mc-kenna.com> Quoting Mike Webb : > Damien, I'm just getting to your post, but I think I have some insight > from a different angle than the others-- Thanks, Mike. > I've been using BackUp MyPC and its predecessors going back to Conner > Backup Exec for DOS--about 8 years. I've removed Backup MyPC from my considerations for one main reason: no DLT support. Too bad, it was a pretty nice program. > One thing to be aware of in the new version; I don't know if they changed > the formatting method, the compression method or what, but BackUp MyPC > 2005 and earlier versions cannot read each others' backups. I would have thought that they'd keep read support for old data, kinda stupid not to. > FYI, the Genie Soft site does not mention a Genie Backup Home version 6; > just version 5. Only the Pro version is in version 6. Huh, I see that. The pro version has some nice things like CRC validation, I'll have to try that one. > One question for the others; this "Pax" utility you've been discussing-- > does it back up to CD/DVD, spanning media and the other stuff I mentioned > above that I like about BackUp MyPC? I'm slowly working toward setting up > a dual-boot Win/Lin system and will be looking for a backup program I can > use on the Linux side. Pax sounds like it would only support files or tapes. Then again you might be able to do some jiggerdy-pokery and make an ISO-9660 file and burn that. -- Damien McKenna, Husband, Father, Geek http://www.mc-kenna.com/ - damien@mc-kenna.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From m9u35g at gmail.com Wed Jul 13 11:55:14 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] BS FAQ -- WAS: AMD 64 DVD / Debian or Suse -- *NO* 8x DL yet In-Reply-To: <1121086799.4740.11.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678911@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1119645004.6276.23.camel@suse.something.com> <42BCAD98.50006@mc-kenna.com> <1119823648.5863.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42C7324F.8050700@sbaflorida.com> <1121086799.4740.11.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <46f680d05071308556cfea3ae@mail.gmail.com> On 7/11/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > some MO spacing/control) and "P-CLV/CAV" are (especially for my FAQ). Do you have a website anymore? vaporwarelabs is now vapor ;( -- Justin Keyes From damien at mc-kenna.com Wed Jul 13 15:49:19 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express: Geforce 6200 vs 6600, 128mb vs 256mb? Message-ID: <20050713154919.ctmozjvk75wkc4k4@www.mc-kenna.com> If you had up to $120 to get a PCI-Express card, and weren't [I]that[/I] into games, would you get a 128mb Geforce 6200 for $80, a 128mb 6600 for $105 or a 256mb 6600 for $120? Does the extra memory make much of a difference? Is the 6600 worth the extra $25? -- Damien McKenna, Husband, Father, Geek http://www.mc-kenna.com/ - damien@mc-kenna.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 13 16:00:40 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express: Geforce 6200 vs 6600, 128mb vs 256mb? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1083F03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> I'm actually getting lots of suggestions on AnandTech's forums to get the 128mb 6600. It'll cost $2 more than my refund, so I think I'll do it. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1637437&enterthread=y Damien -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 2632 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/attachments/20050713/6eae5ff0/attachment.bin From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 13 16:06:49 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express: Geforce 6200 vs 6600, 128mb vs 256mb? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1083F03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1083F03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <200507131606.49625.jasonb@edseek.com> On Wednesday 13 July 2005 16:00, Damien McKenna wrote: > I'm actually getting lots of suggestions on AnandTech's forums to get the > 128mb 6600. It'll cost $2 more than my refund, so I think I'll do it. > > http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1637437&ente >rthread=y > > Damien I envy you. I wish I had the cash for a nice 6600. But I so rarely have time to play Silent Hunter III it's not really worth it anyway. Enjoy your card! From damien at mc-kenna.com Wed Jul 13 17:46:06 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express: Geforce 6200 vs 6600, 128mb vs 256mb? In-Reply-To: <200507131606.49625.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1083F03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <200507131606.49625.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <20050713174606.kvxc1rtrgckko80w@www.mc-kenna.com> There's actually an ATI X700Pro card for $109: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814125165 Looking at Tom's PCI-Express summary it seems to be significantly better than the 6600: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050524/ I think I'm sold. -- Damien McKenna, Husband, Father, Geek http://www.mc-kenna.com/ - damien@mc-kenna.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From damien at mc-kenna.com Wed Jul 13 16:15:36 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express: Geforce 6200 vs 6600, 128mb vs 256mb? In-Reply-To: <200507131606.49625.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1083F03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <200507131606.49625.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <20050713161536.34cnwnpgrrk8g08w@www.mc-kenna.com> Quoting Jason Boxman : > I envy you. I wish I had the cash for a nice 6600. But I so rarely > have time to play Silent Hunter III it's not really worth it anyway. Earlier this year when I was building a new machine the 6200 was the only realistic low-end PCI-Express card. As mentioned previously, that card died on me so my refund money is now able to cover the cost of the faster card. There's very little difference, price-wise, between the 6200 and 6600 today. The only I'm currently looking at, by Gigabyte, is also able to output HDTV, further improving its longevity for us, given that we don't intend upgrading this system for a few years (beyond maybe going RAID-5 at some point). > Enjoy your card! Thanks. -- Damien McKenna, Husband, Father, Geek http://www.mc-kenna.com/ - damien@mc-kenna.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 13 18:15:46 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] BS FAQ -- WAS: AMD 64 DVD / Debian or Suse -- *NO* 8x DL yet In-Reply-To: <46f680d05071308556cfea3ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678911@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1119645004.6276.23.camel@suse.something.com> <42BCAD98.50006@mc-kenna.com> <1119823648.5863.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42C7324F.8050700@sbaflorida.com> <1121086799.4740.11.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <46f680d05071308556cfea3ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1121292946.12642.0.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 11:55 -0400, Justin M. Keyes wrote: > Do you have a website anymore? vaporwarelabs is now vapor ;( I honestly haven't had time to put up my sites on Phil's new server. #1 page going up is going to be a rolling guide to current hardware. #2 will be the former FAQs. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From paddy at ij.net Wed Jul 13 18:45:22 2005 From: paddy at ij.net (paddy) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] BS FAQ -- WAS: AMD 64 DVD / Debian or Suse -- *NO* 8x DL yet In-Reply-To: <1121292946.12642.0.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678911@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1119645004.6276.23.camel@suse.something.com> <42BCAD98.50006@mc-kenna.com> <1119823648.5863.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42C7324F.8050700@sbaflorida.com> <1121086799.4740.11.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <46f680d05071308556cfea3ae@mail.gmail.com> <1121292946.12642.0.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42D59982.2080402@ij.net> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 11:55 -0400, Justin M. Keyes wrote: > >>Do you have a website anymore? vaporwarelabs is now vapor ;( > > > I honestly haven't had time to put up my sites on Phil's new server. > > #1 page going up is going to be a rolling guide to current hardware. > #2 will be the former FAQs. > > Please send the URL to this site. Paddy From m9u35g at gmail.com Thu Jul 14 18:47:30 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] BS FAQ -- WAS: AMD 64 DVD / Debian or Suse -- *NO* 8x DL yet In-Reply-To: <1121292946.12642.0.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678911@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1119645004.6276.23.camel@suse.something.com> <42BCAD98.50006@mc-kenna.com> <1119823648.5863.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <42C7324F.8050700@sbaflorida.com> <1121086799.4740.11.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <46f680d05071308556cfea3ae@mail.gmail.com> <1121292946.12642.0.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <46f680d0507141547158eafd3@mail.gmail.com> On 7/13/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2005-07-13 at 11:55 -0400, Justin M. Keyes wrote: > > Do you have a website anymore? vaporwarelabs is now vapor ;( > > I honestly haven't had time to put up my sites on Phil's new server. > > #1 page going up is going to be a rolling guide to current hardware. > #2 will be the former FAQs. Awesome -- Justin Keyes From damien at mc-kenna.com Fri Jul 15 00:05:48 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RAID options for SATA Message-ID: <42D7361C.8020405@mc-kenna.com> The onboard SATA controller on my motherboard, or rather one of them, supports RAID 0, 1, 10 and 5 using a Silicon Image 3114 chip and I'm brainstorming my options for setting up a RAID later on this year. I read a comparison recently of the SI3114 versus two hardware-based RAID cards in RAID-5 usage and the SI chip came out very well for most operations, in fact it had the consistently good scores for reads & CPU usage but was slow on writes. My primary goals are: 1. Reliability for when problems arise, i.e. one drive dying not taking out the entire RAID. 2. Ease of use for rebuilding should #1 happen. 3. Speed 4. Capacity This would primarily be for use with the OS and important data, I'll keep a large-ish ATA drive for misc junk / mp3s. I was also thinking of getting four equally sized disks, they're pretty cheap and if it gave extra reliability it'd be worth it. As I see it four discs would open up two main options: * RAID-10 * RAID-5 Has anyone used RAID-5 with four discs, if so how well did it work? -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 15 03:31:34 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID options for SATA Message-ID: <14703485.1121412694675.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > The onboard SATA controller on my motherboard, or rather one of them, > supports RAID 0, 1, 10 and 5 using a Silicon Image 3114 chip and I'm > brainstorming my options for setting up a RAID later on this year. FRAID (Fake/Free RAID) It is _always_slower_ than OS-integrated software RAID. > I read a comparison recently of the SI3114 versus two hardware-based > RAID cards in RAID-5 usage and the SI chip came out very well for most > operations, in fact it had the consistently good scores for reads & CPU > usage but was slow on writes. Of course! In RAID-5 reads, it's basically just a read RAID-0 operation (minues 1 stripe). So you're just directly streaming data directly off of disks. No duplicate data stream. That's why I actually recommend _software_ for RAID-0. E.g., two hardware RAID volumes spread over two PCI-X channels. It adds *0* overhead, but segments off and essentially doubles the amount of traffic that can be put to your I/O. That's for when you really need performance! ;-> Now once you use s/w RAID-1 writes, you start duplicating data that goes over your interconnect, but at least you don't bother CPU. Now do s/w RAID-5 _writes_, you're_killing_ your CPU-memory-I/O interconnect because every single piece of data written must be pushed to your CPU just to do the XOR. The XOR itself doesn't bother your CPU much at all, but the stream of data that must be pushed up to the CPU is the problem. You won't see it in CPU usage, but you will notice it if you need to move lots of other data, because it's contending for the interconnect. Which is why when it comes to RAID-1 and, better yet, RAID-5 writes, you should just send your stream to your disk controller, and let it do any duplication local/direct or, in the case of RAID-5, handle the XOR operation (with a good size buffer cache). Software RAID-5, in a nutshell, turns _all_ your writes into "Programmed I/O" (PIO) through the CPU instead of being "Direct Memory Access" (DMA) with_out_ bothering your CPU interconnect. Some new, intelligent RAID cards can do XORs in real-time, or near-real time. The 3Ware Escalade 9500S series is now reported to be very improved in reliability, and has a large DRAM buffer for RAID-5. I also like the NetCell SR3000 (32-bit) and SR5000 (64-bit) and it's "RAID-XL" (parallel write RAID, not 32KB block stripes) for maximum _desktop_ (not heavily queued) performance, but its Linux drivers are not well proven yet (even though they use the stock ATA). > My primary goals are: > 1. Reliability for when problems arise, i.e. one drive dying not > taking out the entire RAID. Either use an intelligent hardware RAID card, or use a disk label that preserves the OS' meta-data for software RAID. Always use the OS' integrated s/w RAID before a FRAID card. FRAID cards are always trouble. > 2. Ease of use for rebuilding should #1 happen. Definitely _not_ Linux MD. It is conservative so you typically have to manually tell it to rebuild -- i.e., it isn't always sure you've replaced a faulty disk. > 3. Speed Speed in what regard? On a single-user system, s/w RAID-0 is just as fast, sometimes faster if . RAID-1 reads and RAID-5 reads can also be fast in s/w. But once you start doing lots of RAID-1 or RAID-5 writes, then things change. > 4. Capacity Well, that's up to you. A lot of people do RAID-5 for capacity. I happen to disagree with the idea. On a desktop or media server, I'd use more RAID-XL (NetCell) than RAID-5. On a server with a good amount of writes, especially lots of random writes, intelligent hardware RAID-10 is ideal. > This would primarily be for use with the OS and important data, > I'll keep a large-ish ATA drive for misc junk / mp3s. I was also > thinking of getting four equally sized disks, they're pretty cheap > and if it gave extra reliability it'd be worth it. Might even go for a 5th spare. You can even get a 3U internal bay with 5 SATA hot-swap bays for around $150, and leave your spare "ready-to-swap" right in the chassis. I now typically do this whenever I purchase a 3Ware Escalade 8506-4LP (or, now that people trust them more, 9500S-4LP). I'm already forking just under $300 out for the card, so I might as well pay another $150 for the enclosure and make swapping easy. SATA is built for hot-swap. > As I see it four discs would open up two main options: > * RAID-10 > * RAID-5 > Has anyone used RAID-5 with four discs, if so how well did it > work? I'm using a 3Ware Escalade 7800 (8-channel 7000 series, 1MB SRAM, instead of the standard 2MB in the 7850/7500-8/7506-8), with (2) RAID-1 system and (6) RAID-5 data. As long as I'm not killing the measly 1MB SRAM with lots of RAID-5 writes, I'm fairly good. The 3Ware 7000/8000 series is better at RAID-5 writes than FRAID or even OS LVM, but it's measly 1-4MB SRAM is a far cry from using a 3Ware 9500S with 128+MB DRAM added, or an XScale-based LSI Logic card. It's really not that much slower at RAID-5 writes than an old i960 33MHz or 66MHz microcontroller-based Promise SuperTrak or Adaptec 2400A/2800A, or any old i960-based SCSI RAID. IN A NUTSHELL, unless you want to fork out $500+ for an XScale SATA or SCSI RAID card, you will _not_ get RAID-5 writes that perform in excess of 50MBps. I guess software RAID-5 might be an option that could, if you use a quality system design (PCI-X channel with BroadCom RAIDCore PCI-X 4-8 [S]ATA channels), but I don't like the burden it puts on the CPU interconnect. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 15 09:48:30 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID options for SATA Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C48@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> I see your point, onboard RAID-5 isn't very good. Too bad there aren't any simple cards available that can offload the XOR creation without having to have a full device controller too. I've got two high-powered S-ATA controllers on my motherboard, buying a third would seem like such a waste. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 15 09:56:06 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID options for SATA Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C4A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Then again, this looks pretty nice: http://www.lycom.com.tw/PE105N.htm Too bad Google doesn't turn up any sellers. So what's a cheap RAID-5 PCI or PCI-e card that does XOR? -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From jasonb at edseek.com Fri Jul 15 10:01:17 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID options for SATA In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C4A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C4A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <200507151001.17293.jasonb@edseek.com> On Friday 15 July 2005 09:56, Damien McKenna wrote: > Then again, this looks pretty nice: > > http://www.lycom.com.tw/PE105N.htm > > Too bad Google doesn't turn up any sellers. > > So what's a cheap RAID-5 PCI or PCI-e card that does XOR? Yeah cheap is definitely the operative word. You will not find any 'cheap' used 3Ware 8xxx cards on Ebay yet. I just resold my old 7410 in February for 75% of what I paid for it a year earlier. They seem to maintain their value. If you can't shell out for a real hardware RAID card for RAID 5, you could investigate RAID 1+0 in software if you can deal with the aggregate space being cut in half for increased speed and redundancy. I've done software RAID 5 and it wasn't particularly fast for the reasons Bryan mentioned. From jasonb at edseek.com Fri Jul 15 10:05:34 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID options for SATA In-Reply-To: <14703485.1121412694675.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <14703485.1121412694675.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507151005.34681.jasonb@edseek.com> On Friday 15 July 2005 03:31, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > I'm using a 3Ware Escalade 7800 (8-channel 7000 series, 1MB > SRAM, instead of the standard 2MB in the 7850/7500-8/7506-8), > with (2) RAID-1 system and (6) RAID-5 data. > As long as I'm not killing the measly 1MB SRAM with lots of RAID-5 > writes, I'm fairly good. I recently upgraded to a 7450-4LP. I like the R5 Fusion stuff. I can finally sustain around 40MB/s writes over the 7410's 20MB/s or so. I've found that's more than fast enough for myself as a single user. I guess the real test would be if I had multiple people hitting my box locally for media content. One day, perhaps... ;) From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 15 11:24:50 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:06 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OS/2 to Linux Migration: IBM links Message-ID: <7117599.1121441091201.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Wise Linux User > OS/2 ran a good race, for 20 years, they say. IBM will cease support on > December 23, 2005, and offers a migration path to GNU/Linux; links in this > article: http://theinquirer.net/?article=24625 From: "Justin M. Keyes" > No, it didn't. It's an old, old, old, piece of software that is > slightly better than Windows 95, and that retards continue to use for > god knows why. Because its _damn_stable_! You could leave it up for _years_ and it would _never_ crash. MS-DOS 5.x/6.x + Windows 3.1x, as well as MS-DOS 7.0/7.1 + Windows 4.0 (aka Windows 95/98/ME) "386Enhanced" is essentially OS/2, only using a Real86 20-bit addressing mode for Int20-3Fh services (Real DOS) and then shunting the processor in and out of Protected386 back to Real86, c/o the DOS Protected Mode Interface(DPMI) service provided by the 20-bit Real DOS. OS/2 itself never uses Real86. NT went beyond OS/2 and added at least some user privilege security (something IBM added later). Diebold, IBM and many others in the financial, medical, law and other industries used OS/2 until very recently. Now they offer both Linux and NT. Unfortunately, NT typically gets the nod because people think it's easier to support -- especially at banks. Diebold technicians are actually really good guys, but they are forced into supporting really insecure products. Which is why I think PC-based voting is the _worst_idea_ in the universe. From: George Laiacona > Not to start a war or anything, yes, OS/2 is old. But, it's way better > than Win95, Which is merely DOS7+Win4 in "386Enhanced" mode, just like DOS6+ Win3.1x before. The former just got a "shot in the arm" with OS/2 2.x/Warp code which IBM gave away in the Windows 95 licensing agreement. > and is what WinNT should have been. Agreed. NT itself was _better_ than OS/2 in many respects. The problem was that "Chicago" (DOS7+Win4) code "infested" NT, which as resulted in Win32 and most of the dev kits for it (e.g., Visual Studio) destroying Win32's inherit and better non-time-share (i.e., multiple users on a system, but a single user at a time) security model. > Had IBM continued with development of that OS, it would be far > better than anything MS has offered. Actually, they _did_. The problem was that anything IBM wrote, Microsoft got _full_access_ to c/o the Windows 95 agreement, even though the 1981 agreement expired in 1993. Anyone who saw the early Win95 Alphas, and even the first Beta, _saw_ a lot of OS/2 files with extensions, components, etc... _unchanged_. > But, IBM dropped the ball on that one. OS/2 was doomed because IBM maintained their PC division that had to sell PC's with Windows. IBM should have cut their PC division a _long_ time ago. > They apparently didn't want to spend money on it when they get > Linux for free. IBM does not want to be an OS vendor, but a vertical and services vendor. The only time they violate that is when it messes with their ability to deliver high-margin products, like Power/AIX, 390-400/host, etc... _or_ they can exert pressure. Make no mistake, their partnership with Microsoft is _key_ to their vertical and services markets, so they have to maintain that relationship. At least far more than ... say ... their relationships with SCO, Sun and even HP, etc... In those cases, IBM has much more control than they do over ... say ... Microsoft. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 15 11:50:05 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID options for SATA Message-ID: <24286466.1121442606009.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > I see your point, onboard RAID-5 isn't very good. There is *0* "onboard RAID-5." Understand I said that using your main CPU and its interconnect for "Programmed I/O" (PIO) RAID-5 writes is less-than-ideal. ;-> > Too bad there aren't any simple cards available that can offload > the XOR creation without having to have a full device controller too. Well, think about it. RAID-5 typically involved massive buffering, recommended 16MiB DRAM _minimum_. That's to hold dozens of 32KiB (typical) block sequences for processing. About the only company I've seen solve it, for desktops and non- random access server applications, is NetCell with their RAID-XL. Instead of sequential blocks, it uses a parallel 32-bit or 64-bit wide bus for _exactly_ 2 drive + 1 parity or 4 drive +1 parity, respectively, to/from disks. In that case, you can do XOR in "real-time" with less need for buffering. > I've got two high-powered S-ATA controllers on my motherboard, "High-powered" SATA? _All_ ATA is just a "dumb bus arbitrator." It's quite unintelligent, with little more than basic 16-bit BIOS Int13h disk services for setup/boot. It's driven 100% by the integrated drive electronics (IDE) on the drive that knows little more than how to transfer 32KB blocks to/from system memory via Direct Memory Access (DMA). Newer ATA has Native Command Queuing (NCQ) allows the IDE to queue up operations at the drive, taking far better advantage of that 2-16MB of DRAM on-board. All a NCQ ATA controller does it setup the registers to do it properly, then gets the hell-out-of- the-way. Not intelligent at all, and you're still only queuing the memory-to _specific_ disk transfers, not your entire, RAID transfer. That's the big difference between plain'ole ATA and someone that puts some "intelligence" in front of the ATA. [ SIDE NOTE: It's also why Serial Attached SCSI (SAS) is being introduced. SAS controllers and SAS drive bays can actually take SATA drives, as well as SAS drives. But SAS offers the full, intelligent SCSI command set atop, from an end-software and even firmware/middleware standpoint. ] The only thing that you might be referring to is the fact that your SATA channels are on a dedicated PCIe channel. That at least means it doesn't have to contend with anything else on its own PCI bus for memory access. > buying a third would seem like such a waste. Well, what are you buying? Your on-board ATA channels cost about $0.10/channel in bus arbitrator logic. The cost of the PCB, its traces and pin-outs that feed it cost far more. An intelligent ATA controller costs about $30-60 in ASIC/ microcontroller logic, plus another $10-30 for the DRAM, maybe another $5-30 for SRAM (if not integrated into the ASIC/uC). You're paying for that "intelligence," not the ATA channels. From: Damien McKenna > Then again, this looks pretty nice: > http://www.lycom.com.tw/PE105N.htm > Too bad Google doesn't turn up any sellers. > So what's a cheap RAID-5 PCI or PCI-e card that does XOR? I can't tell what it does, but it looks like FRAID. Because RAID-0, 1 and 0+1 doesn't require any buffering, and only 32KiB to real-time cache each commit, there are a few ICs now coming out that compete well with older 3Ware products (circa 5000/6000 series timeframe). E.g., the IT8212: http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2005-June/007451.html Until they can fit ~128MB of DRAM into a system-on-a-chip (SoC) IC for $1, you will _never_ see a "cheap" RAID-5 controller. At this point, the best I've seen is NetCell's RAID-XL approach (parallel stripes+parity, instead of sequential blocks of stripes+parity), although they still ship with 128MiB of DRAM outside of its ASIC (for performance when reading). The cards cost $150-250. From: Jason Boxman > Yeah cheap is definitely the operative word. You will not find any > 'cheap' used 3Ware 8xxx cards on Ebay yet. I just resold my old > 7410 in February for 75% of what I paid for it a year earlier. They > seem to maintain their value. The Escalade 5000/6000 use the same ASIC design. The Escalade 7000/8000 use the same ASIC design. The Escalade 9000 seems to be an 8000 with a DRAM controller added. It wouldn't surprise me if there is an Escalade 10000 series in development that: A) improves on the ASIC for for split SRAM/DRAM, and B) adds PCIe bus arbitration to PCI (via new PCI-X support) Broadcom has produced the first, true 8-channel SATA ASIC for RAID-5 that supports both PCIe and PCI-X (and can even bridge between teh two) and up to 768MiB of external DRAM. It is designed more for embedded, but you should see PCIe/PCI-X cards based on it for under $500. The IC sells for $60 in lots of 10K, so maybe we'll see it integrated on $400+ server\ mainboards in the near future as well. From: Jason Boxman > I recently upgraded to a 7450-4LP. I like the R5 Fusion stuff. > I can finally sustain around 40MB/s writes over the 7410's 20MB/s > or so. I've found that's more than fast enough for myself as a single > user. I guess the real test would be if I had multiple people hitting > my box locally for media content. One day, perhaps... ;) Yes, the small improvements on the 7x50 aka 7500/7506 series, from the prior 7x00/7x10 series in the ASIC and doubling of the SRAM (from 1MB to 2MB, as well as a new 4MB in the 12-channels) did a lot to improve RAID-5 performance. And the 3Ware 7000/8000 series clearly does well with RAID-5 sustained writes as long as they are sequential bursts. If they are random access, the seeks introduce latencies, and the 3Ware 7000/8000 series only has a small amount of 0 wait state SRAM, _no_ buffering DRAM. For RAID-5, direct switching with no latency is typically not a consideration, because you're almost _always_ buffering for XOR operations and the actual commit. Hence the 3Ware 9000 series which adds DRAM. I've heard of a lot of issues with it in the past, but most of the bugs seem to be worked out in the latest drivers according to most (that's a 2nd hand testamonial). -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 15 11:57:20 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express: Geforce 6200 vs 6600, 128mb vs256mb? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C52@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > There's actually an ATI X700Pro card for $109: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814125165 I ordered this card this morning, should arrive the middle of next week. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 15 12:48:06 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID options for SATA Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C55@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDetails.jspa?produc tConfigurationId=1091 ~$200. By Christmas there should be more PCI-Express cards. RAID-3 looks pretty reasonable. Not quite as fault-tolerant or flexible as RAID-5 but significantly cheaper. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 15 14:03:09 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: RAID options for SATA -- XFX = NetCell RAID-XL Message-ID: <15057471.1121450590247.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDetails.jspa > ?productConfigurationId=1091~$200. That's the NetCell RAID-XL I was talking about. ASIC takes 32-bit or 64-bit wide transfers and pushes them directly to 2x 16-bit ATA or 4x 16-bit ATA, and then real-time XOR calculates the 3rd or 5th disk on-card. > By Christmas there should be more PCI-Express cards. Personally, I'm waiting for this sucker to come out in end-user cards: http://www.broadcom.com/products/Enterprise-Small-Office/Storage-Solutions/BCM8603 > RAID-3 looks pretty reasonable. Not quite as fault-tolerant or > flexible as RAID-5 but significantly cheaper. ??? RAID-3, RAID-4 and RAID-5 _all_ have the same level of fault-tolerance. Lose 1 disk = okay. Lose 2 disks = bad day. RAID-3 and RAID-4 merely use a dedicated parity disk, instead of striping the parity. RAID-3 is geared towards desktops. NetCell's RAID-XL is a variant of RAID-3. RAID-4 is geared towards large file servers. NetApp (and I agree with them) believes RAID-4 is much, much better than RAID-5 for file servers -- especially for NFS. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 15 14:10:22 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: RAID options for SATA -- XFX = NetCell RAID-XL Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C5E@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > That's the NetCell RAID-XL I was talking about. Looks very reasonable. > ASIC takes 32-bit or 64-bit wide transfers and pushes them directly > to 2x 16-bit ATA or 4x 16-bit ATA, and then real-time XOR calculates > the 3rd or 5th disk on-card. Cool. I hope they bring out a PCI-Express version. > Personally, I'm waiting for this sucker to come out in > end-user cards: > http://www.broadcom.com/products/Enterprise-Small-Office/Stora > ge-Solutions/BCM8603 Time to refinance the house methinks. SAS & SATA - nice. > > RAID-3 looks pretty reasonable. Not quite as fault-tolerant or > > flexible as RAID-5 but significantly cheaper. > > ??? > RAID-3, RAID-4 and RAID-5 _all_ have the same level of > fault-tolerance. > Lose 1 disk = okay. > Lose 2 disks = bad day. I thought with RAID-5's ability to auto-heal & span an increased number of disks that it could work different, guess not, my mistake. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 15 14:12:38 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Broadcom now owns ServerWorks ... HT1000, HT2000 ... Message-ID: <30162357.1121451159011.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> I totally missed this! Broadcom now owns ServersWorks, basically the designer of the Intel E7200 and E7500 series, as well as its own ServerSet III (P3/Xeon) and IV (P4/Xeon) chipsets. Lo'n behold, they have a new set of chips for HyperTransport! The HT1000 seems like the _idea_ "entry-level" Opteron chipset. It has both a single PCI-X channel and a PCI/legacy PC (LPC) on a single chip, along with SATA and their software RAID drivers (which do run under linux). It is a 8+8@1600MT (3.2GBps) I/O interconnect that minimizes traces, EMI and cost: http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/HT-1000-PB01-R.pdf For more powerful servers, or perhaps workstations, the HT2000 adds 17 PCIe channels, another PCI-X channel and 2 GbE ports. http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/HT-2000-PB01-R.pdf An interesting strategy, a little different than nVidia's nForce Pro 2200 + 2050 which not only relies on AMD813x for PCI-X, but you can't really use the 2050 without the 2200, and the 2200 is like a HT2000+HT1000, but without the PCI-X. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 15 14:35:51 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: RAID options for SATA -- XFX = NetCell RAID-XL Message-ID: <11775578.1121452551590.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > I thought with RAID-5's ability to auto-heal ??? Actually, RAID-3 and RAID-4 can "auto-heal" as well. It's just a matter of reading the data stripe disks + the parity disk (if it wasn't the parity disk that went, which is just then rebuilt from the existing data stripe disks). A rebuild actually might be a little faster with RAID-3/4. > & span an increased number of disks that it could work different, > guess not, my mistake. Actually, RAID-3 and RAID-4 are _more_flexible_ when it comes to expansion. Why? Because you always have *1* fixed parity disk, regardless of the number of disks. It's not striped in with data. But in reality, RAID-3/4/5 all have similar issues in rebuilds and expansion. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 16 10:59:47 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Why buy a floppy when a floppy + 9-in-1 USB2.0 reader is not much more? Message-ID: <1121525987.4756.5.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> I don't know if people have seen these, but Mitsumi offers 3.5"xHH floppy drives that also have a 9-in-1 USB2.0 reader attached. There were a number of complaints with the older 401A series, but these new 404A series are supposed to be greatly improved. Newegg has the beige for $21.00, black for $22.50. I've ordered 2 of the black units for my Chenming cases and I'll let you know how they are. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821104103 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821104104 -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 16 12:12:55 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard In-Reply-To: <7921030.1120661797486.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <7921030.1120661797486.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1121530375.4756.50.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 09:56 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > I can't remember if that system has a 465W ATX 1.0 Enermax > (and that will go to the new case, being that my new MicroATX > it's not a ATX 2.0 mainboard, so the 300W ATX2.0 with split > +12V might not be useful in the new case) and I have the original, > 400W Antec laying around (which is still very good -- especially > on the 3.3/5V lines for Athlon XP), or if I only have a 350W or > some other, cheaper 300-400W PS extra laying around. > ... > P.S. I actually have a 2nd Antex SX1000 case without PS that > you can have. It's missing a foot (stupid plastic PoS), and I think > I cut the sides of it with 80mm intake fans -- can't remember. > I'm more than willing to give that one away with it too. Okay, I decided since my wife's mainboard is an ATX 1.0x, I'd go for the Aspire X-QPack with an ATX 1.0x power supply: http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-July/000478.html Instead of the Chenming 118 with an ATX 2.0x power supply: http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-July/000469.html So I can leave the existing power supply in the Antec case with the mainboard. Should be no power issues for you because that power supply is already driving both an Athlon XP2600+ (older Model 6, more power sucking than newer Model 8 and 10, the greatest power gulper that will go on this mainboard ;-) as well an original nVidia GeForce 6800GT 256MB DDR3 (100W power sucker, only the 6800 Ultra sucks more). So here's the deal ... Antec SX1000 tower case + ATX 1.0x power supply (original Antec 400W or Enermax 435W) + Biostar M7VIW ATX mainboard As always, it's a "try before you buy" deal, so you take it home, get it running, kick the tires, etc... I'll be in town next weekend (July 23rd-24th), so we can hook up then. Sunday would be best, so I have all day Saturday to finish off my wife's new system. I'll also let everyone here know how the Aspire X-QPack compares to the Chenming 118 series. I recommend the latter for ATX 2.0x mainboards with split +12V, the former for older ATX 1.0x mainboards. Unless, of course, you're going to put your own ATX power supply in (which is an option, it takes a _full_ ATX power supply, despite only taking a MicroATX mainboard). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 16 13:04:11 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] ULi introduces a true PCIe and AGP single mainboard option ... Message-ID: <1121533451.4756.67.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> The few mainboards out there with both PCIe and AGP slots merely just connect the AGP to the legacy PCI bus (because, after all, AGP is just a 32-bit PCI with a few tricks and higher clocks). So not only do they contend with PCI devices for bandwidth, but the clock is 1/16th the speed of AGP 3.0 (AGP x8). Well, ULi has introduced a 2-chip HyperTransport tunnel set in the M1695/M1567 that has a _full_, _dedicated_ AGP x8 channel on the lower M1567, as well as 20 PCIe channels on the upper M1695. But upper/lower really isn't a good way to describe the chips, because the upper M1695 provides a _full_ 16+16@2000MT (8.0GBps) connection to the lower M1567, and not a reduced 8+8@500MT (1.0GBps) HyperTransport like other vendors do to their peripheral chipset. This is because the AGP x8 needs that added bandwidth. AnandTech has a full review of the reference mainboard here: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2471 Be sure to note one other vendor's "XGP" slot, which is an AGP connected to the PCI bus and how much it _tanks_ in performance. The reference ATX mainboard has: - (2) PCIe x16 physical** slots - (2) PCIe x1 physical** slots - (1) AGP 3.0 (x8) slot - (2) 32-bit PCI 2.3 slots **NOTE: The PCIe channels can be configured as follows: 16@16 + 16@4 + 1@0 + 1@0 -- x1 slots unused (?) 16@16 + 16@0 + 1@2 + 1@2 -- 2nd x16 slot unused (?) 16@8 + 16@8 + 1@4 + 1@0 -- SLI with 2nd x1 slot unused (?) Seems like a vendor should make at least one of the physical x1 slots at least an x4, and the other at least an x2, to support the different configurations. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 16 13:07:56 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] ULi introduces a true PCIe and AGP single mainboard option ... In-Reply-To: <1121533451.4756.67.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1121533451.4756.67.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1121533677.4756.71.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-16 at 12:04 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The reference ATX mainboard has: > - (2) PCIe x16 physical** slots > - (2) PCIe x1 physical** slots > - (1) AGP 3.0 (x8) slot > - (2) 32-bit PCI 2.3 slots > **NOTE: The PCIe channels can be configured as follows: > 16@16 + 16@4 + 1@0 + 1@0 -- x1 slots unused (?) > 16@16 + 16@0 + 1@2 + 1@2 -- 2nd x16 slot unused (?) > 16@8 + 16@8 + 1@4 + 1@0 -- SLI with 2nd x1 slot unused (?) Actually, the last two might be: 16@16 + 16@2 + 1@1 + 1@1 -- all slots used 16@8 + 16@8 + 1@2 + 1@2 -- all slots also used Don't know why I didn't think of that. Seems confusing though. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 16 17:30:07 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Xbit Labs chronology of the Alpha processor ... Message-ID: <1121549407.4756.80.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> One of my favorite quotes of the article ... "21264A (EV67) ... The core frequencies ranged between 600MHz and 833MHz (TDP approx. from 70W to 100W), that allowed Alpha to bring back the leadership on integer tasks, which was lost not so long ago to Intel and AMD processors." The 0.13um fabricated IA-64 Itanium2, over 6 years older than the 0.25um fabricated Alpha 264, is barely able to keep up with Alpha 264's design in either integer or floating-point. It clearly shows that the Digital Semiconductor engineers knew (and publicly criticized Intel on the fact) that optimizations must stay at the die, and can't be solved by compile- time. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/alpha.html -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net Sun Jul 17 17:18:29 2005 From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (Austin Denyer (Ozz)) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? Message-ID: <20050717171829.1639f5de.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> Hi Guys. I'm looking to buy a new PDA, and I'm looking for recommendations. It must be Linux-compatible! What would y'all recommend? Regards, Ozz. From m9u35g at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 17:59:24 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Why buy a floppy when a floppy + 9-in-1 USB2.0 reader is not much more? In-Reply-To: <1121525987.4756.5.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1121525987.4756.5.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <46f680d050717145963a9ae21@mail.gmail.com> On 7/16/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > I don't know if people have seen these, but Mitsumi offers 3.5"xHH > floppy drives that also have a 9-in-1 USB2.0 reader attached. There > were a number of complaints with the older 401A series, but these new > 404A series are supposed to be greatly improved. > > Newegg has the beige for $21.00, black for $22.50. I've ordered 2 of > the black units for my Chenming cases and I'll let you know how they > are. I look forward to it. -- Justin Keyes From damien at mc-kenna.com Sun Jul 17 20:26:31 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20050717171829.1639f5de.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> References: <20050717171829.1639f5de.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> Message-ID: <42DAF737.1070805@mc-kenna.com> Austin (Ozz) Denyer wrote: >I'm looking to buy a new PDA, and I'm looking for recommendations. >It must be Linux-compatible! > > I've got an iPaq 3650 with Linux installed already you can have for $30. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 17 22:59:42 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Who at Microsoft--er, Best Buy let this in? Mirra 160.0GB Personal Server ... Message-ID: <1121655582.4466.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Mirra 160.0GB Personal Server http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp? CategoryID=pcmcat33200050003&id=1108125361562&skuId=7061699&type=product&ref=10&loc=01 "Saves up to 8 versions of a file automatically; restores deleted and overwritten files and moves folders to a new PC with one click Access all stored files over the Web from any computer Share large files over the Web without attaching them to e-mails; grant users permission to change files in shared folders Automatically synchronizes all file changes to linked PCs Photos or music on any PC in your home are instantly available on any other PC running Mirra 128-bit SSL encryption, e-mail address/password authentication and privacy password file protection" And best of all ... "Intelligent, embedded software runs on Linux OS, so you're not susceptible to Windows viruses" -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 17 23:54:31 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: PDA Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20050717171829.1639f5de.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> References: <20050717171829.1639f5de.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> Message-ID: <1121658871.4466.51.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-17 at 17:18 -0400, Austin Denyer wrote: > It must be Linux-compatible! > What would y'all recommend? PalmOS. Conduit support with Evolution, as well as GNOME and KDE piecemeal components (if you don't use Evolution) are going to be much better than most of the Linux-based PDAs. I have my Treo 600 and I love it. You can find non-phone PalmOS PDAs that are much cheaper. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From paddy at ij.net Mon Jul 18 06:47:41 2005 From: paddy at ij.net (paddy) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Who at Microsoft--er, Best Buy let this in? Mirra 160.0GB Personal Server ... In-Reply-To: <1121655582.4466.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1121655582.4466.2.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42DB88CD.50307@ij.net> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >Mirra 160.0GB Personal Server > >http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp? >CategoryID=pcmcat33200050003&id=1108125361562&skuId=7061699&type=product&ref=10&loc=01 > >"Saves up to 8 versions of a file automatically; restores deleted and > overwritten files and moves folders to a new PC with one click > Access all stored files over the Web from any computer > Share large files over the Web without attaching them to e-mails; > grant users permission to change files in shared folders > Automatically synchronizes all file changes to linked PCs > Photos or music on any PC in your home are instantly available on any > other PC running Mirra 128-bit SSL encryption, e-mail address/password > authentication and privacy password file protection" > >And best of all ... > >"Intelligent, embedded software runs on Linux OS, so you're not > susceptible to Windows viruses" > > > > Check out this place for a MUCH better value, only $254.99. http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php?masterid=3906062&zip_code=33755 Paddy From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Mon Jul 18 11:21:51 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Someone's selling an AGP Ti4200 Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C8B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> http://orlando.craigslist.org/sys/85105235.html -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/- 407-804-1014 #include From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 18 11:24:34 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Someone's selling an AGP Ti4200 In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C8B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C8B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <200507181124.34644.jasonb@edseek.com> On Monday 18 July 2005 11:21, Damien McKenna wrote: > http://orlando.craigslist.org/sys/85105235.html Hah. Funny. Picked mine up with a mod'd HS (no fan) for $49 shipped on Ebay. For his price might as well get a new, 6xxx card. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Mon Jul 18 11:31:26 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Someone's selling an AGP Ti4200 Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C8C@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> I see the same card on ebay for $100. You are right, though, the 6x00 cards are a better deal. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include > -----Original Message----- > From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com > [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Jason Boxman > Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 11:25 AM > To: This is the PC Support list. > Subject: Re: [Pc_Support] Someone's selling an AGP Ti4200 > > On Monday 18 July 2005 11:21, Damien McKenna wrote: > > http://orlando.craigslist.org/sys/85105235.html > > Hah. > > Funny. > > Picked mine up with a mod'd HS (no fan) for $49 shipped on Ebay. > > For his price might as well get a new, 6xxx card. > > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support@matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support > From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 18 12:55:58 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Someone's selling an AGP Ti4200 -- 6x00 series is now the only option IMHO ... In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C8C@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858C8C@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1121705758.6754.9.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2005-07-18 at 11:31 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > I see the same card on ebay for $100. You are right, though, the 6x00 > cards are a better deal. Yep. Now that AGP versions (with a full, true 128MB on-board) of the 6x00 series are available for under $100, there is _no_ reason to buy a Ti4x00 series. Which also means there's _no_reason_ to buy a GeForce FX5200/5500/5700LE series anymore. Unless, of course, you just need a video card and it's $20. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From thebs413 at earthlink.net Mon Jul 18 17:02:13 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Dell 24" LCD 1920x1200 ultra-everything now for $779! Message-ID: <29465391.1121720533754.JavaMail.root@wamui-wigeon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Okay, this sucker is now $779! http://dealnews.com/newsdaily.html?article,91395 That's $120 under my last mention: http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-June/000429.html $84 from the best, previous ever on Deal News (it was $863 recently). Geez, I remember paying that for a 25ms 19" less than 18 months ago. Damn I'm so tempted now! -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 19 06:51:21 2005 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Wise Linux User) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <42DAF737.1070805@mc-kenna.com> References: <20050717171829.1639f5de.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> <42DAF737.1070805@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <200507190651.22184.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> On Sunday 17 July 2005 08:26 pm, Damien McKenna wrote: > Austin (Ozz) Denyer wrote: > >I'm looking to buy a new PDA, and I'm looking for recommendations. > >It must be Linux-compatible! > > I've got an iPaq 3650 with Linux installed already you can have for $30. If he doesn't want it, I do! -- Check these out: http://knopper.net/knoppix http://livecdlist.com http://distrowatch.com http://yolinux.com http://safeharbordome.com From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 19 09:08:18 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858CCF@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> FYI the iPaq has everything it came with plus a serial cable I bought extra. I'll get it all together tonight. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 19 09:50:22 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ClamAv on windows??? Message-ID: <18118207.1121781022801.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> [ Moving Windows-only discussion TO:PC_Support, CC:JAXLUG-list ] From: Russ > I got tired of Norton's ever increasing resource usage and hooks into > everything just to be an Anti-Virus. You know, I'm _tired_ of Norton Internet Security not letting me know whether or not my Windows firewall is up or not. It seems to not handle notification/updates to the Windows Security Control Panel correctly. At this point, I think I much rather use the nForce4 Firewall and Anti- Hacking features, which seem to be much more intuitive, Windows integrated and -- best of all -- offers complete control, with another anti-virus solution, then deploy any more Symantec software. I hope other chipset vendors follow nVidia's lead. The nForce4's integrated NIC packet filter, integrated HTTP management with Windows software-side support is far, far better than Norton Firewall IMHO. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 19 10:07:21 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ClamAv on windows??? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858CD6@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > At this point, I think I much rather use the nForce4 Firewall > and Anti-Hacking features, FYI I've been reading on Anandtech's forums and a good many people have been having problems with the firewall, it seems it can interfere with IIRC the IDE or something when using certain driver releases. Having said that, I'm going to try it out myself when my Trend Internet Suite subscription runs out. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From jasonb at edseek.com Tue Jul 19 10:19:11 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ClamAv on windows??? In-Reply-To: <18118207.1121781022801.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <18118207.1121781022801.JavaMail.root@wamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507191019.11682.jasonb@edseek.com> On Tuesday 19 July 2005 09:50, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > At this point, I think I much rather use the nForce4 Firewall and Anti- > Hacking features, which seem to be much more intuitive, Windows > integrated and -- best of all -- offers complete control, with another > anti-virus solution, then deploy any more Symantec software. Is that F4, or is that a different firewalling product? -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 19 10:21:14 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: ClamAv on windows??? -- nVidia firewall Message-ID: <30728308.1121782874382.JavaMail.root@wamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > FYI I've been reading on Anandtech's forums and a good many people > have been having problems with the firewall, it seems it can interfere > with IIRC the IDE or something when using certain driver releases. Really? Hmmm, I'll have to investigate. I found this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=1581745&enterthread=y I see a lot of complaints in general -- e.g., the IDE. Yes, nVidia hasn't gotten NCQ in its SATA chipsets -- but most other chipset have the _same_ issues. As far as their IDE driver "issues" -- I only noted that nVidia purposely uses a "unified driver" for its ATA+SATA, instead of relying on Windows' drivers. That's actually a bonus IMHO, because it means that there is a single "ntbootdd.sys" driver and set of registry entries, no matter what ATA or SATA device you use to boot. That's how I was able to switch from ATA to SATA as my boot device without issue. But back to the firewall, it _does_ require you to "know what you are doing" when you have it in the more secure modes. I.e., you can tell it to never allow a program to run, and you have to go to the firewall interface to change that. Think of it kinda like "Ask me before accepting a cookie" in Mozilla/Firefox. If you don't want to be bothered, yeah, people might not like it. Frankly, I love it! It's extremely valuable IMHO. It's not quite a "hardware firewall" like they market it as. But it _does_ have basic features in the NIC, combined with Windows kernel-level integration for anti-hacking at the driver itself. Much, much better than Symantec IMHO, largely because of this arrangement. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net Tue Jul 19 12:32:24 2005 From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200507190651.22184.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> References: <20050717171829.1639f5de.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> <42DAF737.1070805@mc-kenna.com> <200507190651.22184.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <39613.69.176.47.130.1121790744.squirrel@www.ozz.is-a-geek.net> > On Sunday 17 July 2005 08:26 pm, Damien McKenna wrote: >> Austin (Ozz) Denyer wrote: >> >I'm looking to buy a new PDA, and I'm looking for recommendations. >> >It must be Linux-compatible! >> >> I've got an iPaq 3650 with Linux installed already you can have for $30. > If he doesn't want it, I do! Much as I would love to get it, I live over 800 miles away, so getting the money to you / shipping the PDA to me is probably more trouble than it's worth. Thanks for the offer, though. Regards, Ozz. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 19 12:34:00 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858CE2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > Much as I would love to get it, I live over 800 miles away, > so getting the money to you / shipping the PDA to me is probably > more trouble than it's worth. > Thanks for the offer, though. No probs. Over to you, Patrick. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 19 12:48:24 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: nForce4 firewall -- not a "hardware", but good "personal" firewall Message-ID: <10615281.1121791704511.JavaMail.root@wamui-sweet.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Matt Young > I have never seen anything on this. > Do you have any documentation on this? Most of the documentation on-line is marketing. In a nutshell, if you use the nVidia nForce4's built-in MAC (10/100 on nForce4 [Standard], 10/100/1000 on nForce4 Ultra/SLI), you have a combination hardware-driver filtering, anti-malware, anti-hacking protection. I've seen a lot of complaints about it, but I actually like it. [ SIDE NOTE: Supposively some nForce3 MACs have it too. ] E.g., I turn-off Microsoft's "svchost" program's ability to send info to them and other things _until_ I actually need to run Windows update. "svchost" is also the best way for spyware to take control of your Windows system -- including by-passing all sorts of A/V and other protections, and I don't like to let it run _until_ I've manually scanned it for viruses. > I would be interested in seeing a link to some info on this. Well, there's a lot of marketing out there. In a nutshell ... NO, I wouldn't trust it was a "network firewall" replacement. They marketing it as a "hardware firewall" -- but that's not entirely true. It apparently runs a local Apache HTTP for services, so how much is embedded in hardware/firmware is questionable. It's clear the combination driver-software is designed for Windows (unless I haven't looked through the Linux nForce drivers well enough ;-). But it _does_ seem to "store" some of the settings in the firmware/EEPROM of the on- board NIC, as I found out when I loaded an independent installations of XP Home and XP Pro. Now YES, I would trust it as a "personal firewall/malware inhibitor." It does an excellent job in giving you precise, quick control. I turn the sucker to the highest security level and it instantly startes telling me what software wants to run, and I can choose "Allow/Deny [Always]" or "Allow/ Deny [Once]", etc... Another thing I really like is that the nVidia tools do a _great_ _job_ of letting you choose if you want to just use its driver/software malware features with the integrated XPSP2 firewall, or have its firewall replace XPSP2's integrated. Symantec's Internet Security seems to be far less "integrated" or "notifying" than I really like -- at least after using the nVidia product. I can't find much testing other than the press releases, or technology intros on enthusiast sites. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 19 14:12:49 2005 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Wise Linux User) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858CE2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858CE2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <200507191412.50001.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> On Tuesday 19 July 2005 12:34 pm, Damien McKenna wrote: > > Much as I would love to get it, I live over 800 miles away, > > so getting the money to you / shipping the PDA to me is probably > > more trouble than it's worth. > > Thanks for the offer, though. > > No probs. > > Over to you, Patrick. Are you local to Central Florida? Ever get near 436 and Aloma? I have cash. Or, paypal...if not. -- Check these out: http://knopper.net/knoppix http://livecdlist.com http://distrowatch.com http://yolinux.com http://safeharbordome.com From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 19 14:15:04 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858CE3@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > Are you local to Central Florida? Ever get near 436 and > Aloma? I have cash. Sounds good. I'll drop you an email tonight once I get it all together. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 19 14:34:35 2005 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Wise Linux User) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858CE3@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858CE3@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <200507191434.35278.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> On Tuesday 19 July 2005 02:15 pm, Damien McKenna wrote: > > Are you local to Central Florida? Ever get near 436 and > > Aloma? I have cash. > > Sounds good. I'll drop you an email tonight once I get it all together. Everytime the outside temperature gets near 88 degrees, my cable drops out! The 19 techs so far who have come out, have changed the modem 5 times, spliced the main feeds to the pedistal, due to cracks, and replaced the faceplate, two up-amps, and the entire run to my house! Only digital cable is affected, and only on this 'leg' fof about 4 users on this feed! So, if I am slow answering.... -- Check these out: http://knopper.net/knoppix http://livecdlist.com http://distrowatch.com http://yolinux.com http://safeharbordome.com From work at sprynet.com Tue Jul 19 14:45:59 2005 From: work at sprynet.com (J.T. Hayden) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <200507191434.35278.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <064201c58c92$1b4dbb00$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Heh I can tell you the problem, the amps are over heating... I have a guy that works for them he confirmed it, they need new amps there J.T. Hayden -----Original Message----- From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Wise Linux User Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 14.35 To: This is the PC Support list. Subject: Re: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? On Tuesday 19 July 2005 02:15 pm, Damien McKenna wrote: > > Are you local to Central Florida? Ever get near 436 and Aloma? I > > have cash. > > Sounds good. I'll drop you an email tonight once I get it all > together. Everytime the outside temperature gets near 88 degrees, my cable drops out! The 19 techs so far who have come out, have changed the modem 5 times, spliced the main feeds to the pedistal, due to cracks, and replaced the faceplate, two up-amps, and the entire run to my house! Only digital cable is affected, and only on this 'leg' fof about 4 users on this feed! So, if I am slow answering.... -- Check these out: http://knopper.net/knoppix http://livecdlist.com http://distrowatch.com http://yolinux.com http://safeharbordome.com _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support@matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Tue Jul 19 15:45:21 2005 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Wise Linux User) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <064201c58c92$1b4dbb00$650aa8c0@xpmaster> References: <064201c58c92$1b4dbb00$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Message-ID: <200507191545.21316.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> On Tuesday 19 July 2005 02:45 pm, J.T. Hayden wrote: > Heh I can tell you the problem, the amps are over heating... I have a > guy that works for them he confirmed it, they need new amps there > > J.T. Hayden > > -----Original Message----- > From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com > [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Wise Linux User > Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 14.35 > To: This is the PC Support list. > Subject: Re: [Pc_Support] PDA Recommendations? > > On Tuesday 19 July 2005 02:15 pm, Damien McKenna wrote: > > > Are you local to Central Florida? Ever get near 436 and Aloma? I > > > have cash. > > > > Sounds good. I'll drop you an email tonight once I get it all > > together. > > Everytime the outside temperature gets near 88 degrees, my cable drops > out! The 19 techs so far who have come out, have changed the modem 5 > times, spliced > the main feeds to the pedistal, due to cracks, and replaced the > faceplate, > two up-amps, and the entire run to my house! > > Only digital cable is affected, and only on this 'leg' fof about 4 users > on > this feed! > > So, if I am slow answering.... They replaced the amps in November!!! Prior to THAT, we ran with only two outages in the prior two years! (both caused by cable theives!). November was a lightning strike, they say... -- Check these out: http://knopper.net/knoppix http://livecdlist.com http://distrowatch.com http://yolinux.com http://safeharbordome.com From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 20 06:32:42 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Microsoft sues Lee and Google over Lee's Non-Compete ... Message-ID: <1121855562.9831.17.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Now you know why I don't sign'em. ;-> If you're important enough, litigation will result from your former company. This means either the receiving party "gets the check" if they want you bad enough, or more often, they just forget the whole thing if they don't want you bad enough: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002391029_googlelee20.html I actually had one unscrupulous organization forge a "Non-Compete" clause on me once, which kept me from getting a permanent position at a Fortune 20 company (who had a policy of never hiring anyone with a "Non- Compete," because of past lawsuits). They then tried to swindle me with a post-dated contract 4 months into the position, and I resigned instead. It won't surprise me if more direct litigation comes from Microsoft against Google in the near future. Just like Digital did against Microsoft when it started stealing its best OS and other talent. Oh how the world has changed, eh? -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 20 06:38:39 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:07 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] HP largely cutting sales and finance force, not R&D ... Message-ID: <1121855919.9831.20.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Interesting twist here: http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-fi-hp20jul20,1,1140512.story "But others said Hurd was returning HP to its engineering roots because most of the cuts targeted the company's sales and support staffs, including finance and human resources. Notably, Hurd made only minor trims to HP's research and development budget, which some analysts had criticized as too lavish in an era of ever-dwindling margins and relentless competition." It takes an engineering company to look past 3 years. I'm glad CEO Hurd still thinks like an engineer. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 20 13:23:44 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters Message-ID: <2771632.1121880225115.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> As you may or may not know, I've been cringing at the term "Routers" applied to NAT/PAT devices that do only basic IP forwarding at most. Several months ago I ran into a potential client who couldn't understand a thing about _real_ "routing," routing tables, their distribution, etc... when it was clear they needed routing on a multi-subnet network (let alone with their VPN). Since then I've been trying to evangelize, even if only from my closet. But at least someone at Wikipedia knows my plight (among countless other professionals) as someone just pointed out to me today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Router "... These are not "routers" in the true sense, but the terminology has been confused with network address translation." I had suggested "NFR" -- for "NAT-Fowarding Router" and, slangwise, "Not a Fscking Router." But acronyms aren't always the most ideal. E.g., I hate the terms FOSS, FLOSS, etc... that try to solve the Stallman insistance of "Free Software" ("free" not being appropriate even in the mid-'80s IMHO) with the "Open Source" movement. Frankly, I think the term "Freedomware" is far more appropriate, since it clearly tells many people that's it does "cost" in some way, but it's typically worth the vigilance. ;-> Last week I finally thought of one for these NAT/PAT devices, although I forgot about it until someone brought it up on a list. I just slurred my speech into a stereotypical southern drawl and came up with "'Ritters." Like [c]'Ritters to a house, one is fine, but many are a nuisance. They are something you want to keep out of your house, and definitely off your enterprise network. More than one is an infestation you can't control as they mass produce off-spring (unnecessary IP issues). The few professionals I used it in front of last week really liked it. And just today I hit Wikipedia (after someone pointed out the NAT and Router references). Sure enough, 'Ritters has another meaning. It is the lowest title for lower nobility in German history. That would also apply. Wikipedia claims it is the equivalent of a Knight, which would also make sense. One Knight alone is fine in a house, but two loners without any alliance or way to communicate (no actual routing protocols) will cause the same issues. Which is why you need a protocol, like a routing protocol (RIP, OSPF, etc...) as a "round table" for Knights who work together. And the difference between a Router and a 'Ritter. Because there are $200-300 Routers out there, and occassionally at the Superstore, that also have RIP and, gasp, even OSPF setup and support. But most of them are 'Ritters. So, what do you think? Is the BS just eccentric? Or did he come up with a good one like Freedomware (which I'm sure I wasn't the first to suggest)? -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From ae4ko at amsat.org Wed Jul 20 13:50:10 2005 From: ae4ko at amsat.org (Aaron Morrison) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <2771632.1121880225115.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2771632.1121880225115.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <42DE8ED2.30000@amsat.org> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > So, what do you think? Is the BS just eccentric? Or did he come up > with a good one like Freedomware (which I'm sure I wasn't the first > to suggest)? > Do you really want an answer to that second question? Acronyms and abbreviations are fine if you define them (or remind the reader) in the message/article when the acronym/abbreviation isn't in common use or may be confusing. The idea is to convey useful information, not confuse. For example, "IP" has about 120 definitions according to acronymfinder.com; around 20 of which are deemed common in the Information Technology category. No wonder people gloss over when reading tech books. --am From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 20 14:29:57 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters Message-ID: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Aaron Morrison > Do you really want an answer to that second question? Well, I try to avoid acronyms. Working in the defense industry for too many years has instilled a great distain. I think they are fine for coming up with proper names like projects and products (which you never redefine again). But not generic terms. > Acronyms and abbreviations are fine if you define them (or > remind the reader) in the message/article when the acronym/ > abbreviation isn't in common use or may be confusing. The > idea is to convey useful information, not confuse. Well, IMHO, people didn't get "Free Software" and "Open Source" is now a marketing gimmick. FOSS and FLOSS are just adding more confusion. I still liken "Freedomware," which several people agree sells to someone who doesn't have the slightest idea of what Free, Open Source, FOSS or FLOSS mean much better. > For example, "IP" has about 120 definitions according to > acronymfinder.com; around 20 of which are deemed common in > the Information Technology category. No wonder people gloss > over when reading tech books. In reading through Boeing, [now L-3] Coleman, Lockheed Martin, TRW and countless other defense contractor, let alone various military, JPO (Joint Projects Office), etc... documentation, I really tire of _conflicting_ acronyms for different processes between companies and projects. Again, I don't mind acronyms when it's a proper name. But not for general processes, procedures or other details. Anyhoo, that all aside, what do you think of 'Ritter? Or better yet, has anyone else come up with a better way to convey this growing issue other than to keep using "Router" and then try to explain what a "Real Router" is? That was my point. Just like Freedomware instead of Free Software, Open Source Software, Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) or Free, Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSS) which I'm just going to start refering to as ... collectively ... Free, Libre and Open Source Terminology, Mucho Expresiones (FLOST-ME). -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From philb at philb.us Wed Jul 20 19:38:34 2005 From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507201938.34232.philb@philb.us> On Wednesday 20 July 2005 02:29 pm, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > From: Aaron Morrison > > > Do you really want an answer to that second question? Did you know... Aaron's reply to your post was threaded properly, but... Your reply to Aaron's reply was not threaded into the original thread, but became a top level post? This has been going on for a while... -- "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -Mark Twain From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 20 19:41:39 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <200507201938.34232.philb@philb.us> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201938.34232.philb@philb.us> Message-ID: <1121902899.12326.9.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 19:38 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > Did you know... > Aaron's reply to your post was threaded properly, but... > Your reply to Aaron's reply was not threaded into the original thread, > but became a top level post? > This has been going on for a while... Yes, because Earthlink's web client is crap. GMail has its problems as well. I'm testing Yahoo Mail and might switch shortly. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From philb at philb.us Wed Jul 20 19:46:16 2005 From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <1121902899.12326.9.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201938.34232.philb@philb.us> <1121902899.12326.9.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> On Wednesday 20 July 2005 07:41 pm, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 19:38 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > > Did you know... > > Aaron's reply to your post was threaded properly, but... > > Your reply to Aaron's reply was not threaded into the original thread, > > but became a top level post? > > This has been going on for a while... > > Yes, because Earthlink's web client is crap. > GMail has its problems as well. > I'm testing Yahoo Mail and might switch shortly. That one threaded properly. Why don't you set up a webmail on taz? -- "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -Mark Twain From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 20 20:04:06 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201938.34232.philb@philb.us> <1121902899.12326.9.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> Message-ID: <1121904246.12326.15.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 19:46 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > That one threaded properly. > Why don't you set up a webmail on taz? I used to, until you went down the 2nd time. I haven't even had the time to re-create the domains yet. (yeah, I know, it's been months ;-) -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From philb at philb.us Wed Jul 20 20:06:14 2005 From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <1121904246.12326.15.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> <1121904246.12326.15.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507202006.14957.philb@philb.us> On Wednesday 20 July 2005 08:04 pm, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 19:46 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > > That one threaded properly. > > Why don't you set up a webmail on taz? > > I used to, until you went down the 2nd time. > I haven't even had the time to re-create the domains yet. > > (yeah, I know, it's been months ;-) It's been a year and a half since I moved Taz from Baltimore. -- "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -Mark Twain From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 20 20:26:13 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <200507202006.14957.philb@philb.us> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> <1121904246.12326.15.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507202006.14957.philb@philb.us> Message-ID: <1121905573.12326.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 20:06 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > It's been a year and a half since I moved Taz from Baltimore. BTW, I decided to go with Yahoo Mail Plus. Nothing against you, I just really travel a lot. And having some of the added features is nice. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 20 20:26:53 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <200507202006.14957.philb@philb.us> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> <1121904246.12326.15.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507202006.14957.philb@philb.us> Message-ID: <1121905613.12326.26.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 20:06 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > It's been a year and a half since I moved Taz from Baltimore. And it's not like I can complain. I don't think I've paid you for anything since 2004 January. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From damien at mc-kenna.com Wed Jul 20 20:31:34 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <1121905573.12326.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> <1121904246.12326.15.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507202006.14957.philb@philb.us> <1121905573.12326.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42DEECE6.60501@mc-kenna.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >BTW, I decided to go with Yahoo Mail Plus. >[snip] >And having some of the added features is nice. > > You should try out Horde, it has turned into a really good PIM suite. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 20 20:37:06 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <42DEECE6.60501@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <20050721003706.58436.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > You should try out Horde, it has turned into a really good PIM > suite. I don't doubt it. But I just wanted a national service. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From m9u35g at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 22:31:34 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <1121905573.12326.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> <1121904246.12326.15.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507202006.14957.philb@philb.us> <1121905573.12326.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <46f680d050720193138a70091@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 20:06 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > > It's been a year and a half since I moved Taz from Baltimore. > > BTW, I decided to go with Yahoo Mail Plus. > Nothing against you, I just really travel a lot. > And having some of the added features is nice. What's wrong with gmail exactly? -- Justin Keyes From m9u35g at gmail.com Wed Jul 20 22:39:28 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <2771632.1121880225115.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <2771632.1121880225115.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <46f680d0507201939227c2523@mail.gmail.com> On 7/20/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > And the difference between a Router and a 'Ritter. Because there > are $200-300 Routers out there, and occassionally at the Superstore, > that also have RIP and, gasp, even OSPF setup and support. But > most of them are 'Ritters. I don't understand. Are you saying that even routers with RIP/OSPF can still be ritters? -- Justin Keyes From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 21 00:01:15 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <46f680d050720193138a70091@mail.gmail.com> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> <1121904246.12326.15.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507202006.14957.philb@philb.us> <1121905573.12326.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <46f680d050720193138a70091@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1121918475.12326.28.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 22:31 -0400, Justin M. Keyes wrote: > What's wrong with gmail exactly? Threads on subject, not message-ID/thread. Google explicitly stated they won't add it. At least that was the word a few months ago. Has that now changed? -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 21 00:02:01 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <46f680d0507201939227c2523@mail.gmail.com> References: <2771632.1121880225115.JavaMail.root@wamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <46f680d0507201939227c2523@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1121918522.12326.30.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 22:39 -0400, Justin M. Keyes wrote: > I don't understand. Are you saying that even routers with RIP/OSPF can > still be ritters? No exact opposite. They are _not_ 'Ritters if they support at least RIP and more than one internal subnet. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From m9u35g at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 14:45:35 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <1121918475.12326.28.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <32490036.1121884197343.JavaMail.root@wamui-karabash.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507201946.16761.philb@philb.us> <1121904246.12326.15.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507202006.14957.philb@philb.us> <1121905573.12326.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <46f680d050720193138a70091@mail.gmail.com> <1121918475.12326.28.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <46f680d05072111454a156ae9@mail.gmail.com> On 7/21/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Wed, 2005-07-20 at 22:31 -0400, Justin M. Keyes wrote: > > What's wrong with gmail exactly? > > Threads on subject, not message-ID/thread. > Google explicitly stated they won't add it. > At least that was the word a few months ago. > Has that now changed? I see. Is that the only problem? I actually like that. It'd be better to have both, though. -- Justin Keyes From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 21 17:06:40 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters In-Reply-To: <46f680d05072111454a156ae9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050721210640.33166.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Justin M. Keyes" wrote: > I see. Is that the only problem? I actually like that. > It'd be better to have both, though. I'm on Yahoo Mail Plus ($19.95/year) and it seems to do most everything -- bottom-posting, Message-ID track, etc... The only thing is that I can't tell it to default the From: to another e-mail address. It only defaults to my IEEE address when an e-mail is so address to me (e.g., not list traffic I receive). I must be missing an option. But I tire of having the manually pull down the "From:" and switch it on every e-mail. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 21 17:07:39 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Message-ID and Threading -- WAS: BS Terminology of the Day: 'Ritters Message-ID: <20050721210739.34775.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > I must be missing an option. But I tire of having the > manually pull down the "From:" and switch it on every > e-mail. Nevermind! Apparently all the "Plus" features are now enabled, and there was a "Make Default" link next to my IEEE account. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 21 17:16:09 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Does anyone have HDTV DirectTV? Message-ID: <20050721211609.84072.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It's almost football season and I now have a 1080i capable TV. My NFL Sunday Ticket renewal notice has come in, and I figured now is the time to go HDTV. I currently have three (3) NTSC subscriptions in my household, two (2) for my NTSC TiVO and (1) for another NTSC system. At this time, I merely want to add (1) HDTV subscription, which I'll plug to this 1080i capable TV which has a HDMI in (I also have a DVI-to-HDMI converter capble). I'm not going to go DirectTiVO HDTV or anything. I just want the HDTV channels on the new TV, and I'll keep the NTSC DirectTiVO for the immediate future. So does anyone know if ... A. Do I need to have my Dish/Concentrator modified? FYI, I already ran HDTV/QAM quality RG-6 last fall I currently have the 2-line in, 4-line out Concentrator B. Is it simply a matter of adding the HDTV receiver and having DirectTV remotely program it, all while still getting NTSC? I was hoping it was this easy (without "A"). Or is DirectTV HDTV an "all or nothing" thing? I.e., all TVs must me HDTV at the dish, and then "down converted" to NTSC for all NTSC TVs? C. What HDTV Receiver in everyone recommending? HDMI or DVI would be ideal, although I'll take Composite (this TV has lots of inputs). Something with an Optical ToshLink audio output would be most ideal, since I have a Decoder. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 21 17:33:12 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Does anyone have HDTV DirectTV? In-Reply-To: <20050721211609.84072.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050721213312.83393.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > At this time, I merely want to add (1) HDTV subscription, which > I'll plug to this 1080i capable TV which has a HDMI in (I also > have a DVI-to-HDMI converter capble). I'm not going to go > DirectTiVO HDTV or anything. I just want the HDTV channels on > the new TV, and I'll keep the NTSC DirectTiVO for the immediate > future. Hmmm, the DirecTV HD PVR (TiVO-based) has dropped to $699. I think it has dual-tuners (and I think I noted ATSC and other support too, including digital out), I might just go with it instead. Not sure though. 250GB is only ~25 hours of recording. But I guess I'll have my old TiVO for anything else. And I guess the NTSC recording programs will still be ~220 hours total (assuming I don't any for HD). -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From dsimmons at powersmiths.com Thu Jul 21 17:38:23 2005 From: dsimmons at powersmiths.com (David Simmons) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Does anyone have HDTV DirectTV? In-Reply-To: <20050721213312.83393.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050721213312.83393.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1121981904.7322.52.camel@suse.something.com> On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 14:33 -0700, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Not sure though. 250GB is only ~25 hours of recording. Now I know that you know you can jack it up to about 400GB/40 hours with a kit from: http://9thtee.com/tivo-dthd.htm ??????????? dave From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 21 18:12:31 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Does anyone have HDTV DirectTV? -- the risk of moding ... In-Reply-To: <1121981904.7322.52.camel@suse.something.com> References: <20050721213312.83393.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1121981904.7322.52.camel@suse.something.com> Message-ID: <1121983951.4417.4.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 16:38 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > Now I know that you know you can jack it up to about 400GB/40 hours with > a kit from: > http://9thtee.com/tivo-dthd.htm > ??????????? Yes, that's exactly what I did with my $49 40GB TiVO. I bought two of their kits, and I went to 2 x 120GB. If I toasted it, oh well, out $50. But when I'm going to spend $699 on a HD TiVO, I think I'll wait until near the end of the warranty period to do it again. Besides, 0.8-1.0GB ATA drives will probably be out by then, and I can go 1.6-2.0TB for around 200 hours of HD/QAM recording. I assume the drive/filesystem limit(s) have been expanded from 137GB (128GiB) on the pre-HD units to 2.2TB (2.0TiB) on the new HD units, correct? -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 22 08:14:19 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Does anyone have HDTV DirectTV? -- HDTV is just channels in the feed In-Reply-To: <1121983951.4417.4.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <20050722121419.64633.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I don't know why I didn't realize this before, but HDTV is just a set of channels in the set of QAM feeds. So NTSC and HDTV come over the same feed -- it just occurred to me last night (duh!). The only thing I have to check on is that I have the newer dish (I think I do, it was reset after my room was replaced earlier this year). -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 22 08:27:24 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: So much for HP not firing geeks In-Reply-To: <42E05BFE.3040302@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <20050722122724.82890.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2005/07/hewlettpackards.html > They fired Alan Kay, the inventor of Smalltalk, founder of > Xerox's Palo Alto research facility, etc. Idiots./ I'd say so! I thought they weren't firing their core R&D? Maybe that was the press release and not the reality? -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 24 03:46:19 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Asus A7V266-MX in Aspire X-QPack -- WAS: Want to sell Message-ID: <20050724074619.9591.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Okay, I decided since my wife's mainboard is an ATX 1.0x, > I'd go for the Aspire X-QPack with an ATX 1.0x power supply: > http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-July/000478.html > Instead of the Chenming 118 with an ATX 2.0x power supply: > http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-July/000469.html > ... > I'll also let everyone here know how the Aspire X-QPack compares > to the Chenming 118 series. I recommend the latter for ATX 2.0x > mainboards with split +12V, the former for older ATX 1.0x > mainboards. > Unless, of course, you're going to put your own ATX power supply > in (which is an option, it takes a _full_ ATX power supply, > despite only taking a MicroATX mainboard). Okay, have my wife's modified system assembled: - Aspire X-QPack MicroATX, 420W ATX 1.0x (26A-3.3V, 28A-5V, 30A-12V, no split 12V) - Asus A7V266-MX (ViA KM266+VT8235) - 1.44MB floppy + 9-in-1 card reader Everything else was what she already had: - AMD Athlon XP Model 6, 256MB, 2.16GHz, DDR266 - nVidia GeForce 6800GT 256MB DDR3 AGP 3.0 (x8) - (2) 512MB PC2100 DDR266 Kingston ValueRAM - etc... First off, the X-QPack isn't as flimsy as I thought compared to the Chenming. The plastic windows are clearly thick, and will withstand something placed atop of them. They are fairly well anchored into the aluminum cover. Secondly, the +12V power seems quite adequate for the power hungry Athlon XP2600+ Model 6 ("Thoroughbred B"), which dissapates almost 70W, over 2x my Athlon64 3200+ ("Winchester"), alongside the nVidia GeForce 6800GT AGP. It should be noted this PNY 6800GT AGP 3.0 takes a single 4-pin Molex (one set of +12V) while my eVGA 6800GT PCIe x16 takes the 6-pin (2x3) SSI-WS (nka PCIe) connector, which comes with a split 4-pin Molex adapter (two sets of +12V wires, although it can still be the same line). With dual 160GB WD 7200rpm ATA drives connected to a 3Ware Escalade 6200, the drives, CPU and video seems to be cool. I'm not sure the temperature sensors are working, because both report 25C (77F), even though my house's ambient is higher than 25C (77F). After 4 straight hours of UT2004 in 1680x1050 (yes, it's a Dell 20.1" widescreen, bought it for my wife around Christmas for $600), nVidia's temp monitor reports card 61C, 44C ambient around the card (which is typically going to be 10C higher). The BIOS monitoring says around 35C (95F) ambient, and around 40C (106F) CPU temp. All-in-all, the performance is more than adequate and reliable. The specs and sale sheet of the mainboard say it's only a DDR200/266 capable mainboard with AGP 2.0 (x1/2/4). But the DIP switches have DDR333 and DDR400 spots, and the BIOS only allows AGP 3.0 (x4/8), and the AGP slot _clearly_ has a 1.5V key. Even the BIOS says A7V266-MXC, so I don't what's up? ;-> BTW, I haven't tested the card reader on the floppy drive yet. There are only 6 USB ports on the mainboard, and that's 4 on the back, plus 2 to the front of the case, leaving 0 for the card reader's USB connection (the floppy portion uses the standard 34-pin). Like the Chenming 118, the mainboard hookups were cake, thanx to the assumed USB and audio plug configurations. But I'll get to shortly with my Foxconn nForce4 mainboard in my Chenming 118. It has 10 USB ports -- 6 on back, 2 to the front and 2 still available. Some people complained about poor SD support on earlier models, and I use SD. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 24 03:52:44 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Asus A7V266-MX in Aspire X-QPack -- WAS: Want to sell Message-ID: <20050724075244.10465.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > Secondly, the +12V power seems quite adequate for the power > hungry Athlon XP2600+ Model 6 ("Thoroughbred B"), which > dissapates almost 70W, over 2x my Athlon64 3200+ > ("Winchester"), alongside the nVidia GeForce 6800GT AGP. > It should be noted this PNY 6800GT AGP 3.0 takes a single > 4-pin Molex (one set of +12V) while my eVGA 6800GT PCIe x16 > takes the 6-pin (2x3) SSI-WS (nka PCIe) connector, which > comes with a split 4-pin Molex adapter (two sets of +12V > wires, although it can still be the same line). I.e., on these 6-pin (2x3) SSI-WS/PCIe power connectors, there are (2) +12V lines in. So most included adapters break out to (2) 4-pin Molex connectors (each with one +12V line). While the manuals do _not_ state that the 100+W sucking GeForce 6800GT PCIe needs 2, independent +12V "rails", it does recommend you do _not_ use the same Molex "wire run" for both. I.e., it's done for wire gage considerations, although multiple rails certainly helps, I'm sure. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Sun Jul 24 21:27:43 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Sigh, been fantasizing about BF2 Message-ID: <200507242127.43893.jasonb@edseek.com> I'm still running an old ECS K7S5A with a XP 1800+. I totally need to toast this rig and upgrade to a PCIe board, since it's silly to purchase an AGP video card at this stage, methinks. Any quality entry level PCIe boards? I'm looking at buying a NVidia 6600 or 6800 variant. Probably a 6600 or 6600GT, though. I've heard things about the NForce4 chipset. I don't remember if what I heard was good or bad since I haven't been looking for any mainboards lately. Is there anything especially good to look at/for? Is there anything I should definitely avoid? I'm going to bring my own RAM (PC2700, 2 x 512 unregistered). I might not be able to bring my own PSU, though. My current PSU is a Coolmax AP-350X, with claimed ratings of 28A +3.3, 30A +5V, 15A +12V, 2A +5Vsb. I suspect the 12V probably isn't enough? Thanks! -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 24 22:13:43 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Lian Li releases "above card blower" for PC-V1000/2000 series ... Message-ID: <1122257623.4848.32.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Okay, it wasn't just me. I absolutely love the Lian Li PC-V1000/2000 series of cases, with the "flipped ATX" design (ICs on card facing upward, far better heat rising), super HD cooling at the bottom, the P.S. at the bottom pulling in cool air, etc... It has one 120mm fan in the lower front for the hard drives, the PS pulls directly from the bottom, and the CPU has an exhaust fan. http://www.lian-li.com/Product/Chassis/M_V_C_PC-V1200.htm But I eventually had to mount a 120mm fan mid-mainboard to guarantee the cooling of the cards, which were receiving hot air from the CPUs. Apparently the rising heat was always an issue. Well, it looks like Lian Li has addressed this in their new "Plus" designs: http://www.lian-li.com/Product/Chassis/M_V_C_PC-V1200plus.htm They mount a "blower" above the cards, which would remove any need (and work far better than) my mid-mounted 120mm fan. I noticed Monarch now carries the blower for $25 for older cases: http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv? Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=100096 I might have to grab this and check it out. Just don't want to have to drill any holes, but I guess it's not too bad in aluminum (easier than steel). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 24 23:46:18 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: igh, been fantasizing about BF2 -- Socket-462/AthlonXP has gone up in price ... In-Reply-To: <200507242127.43893.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <200507242127.43893.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1122263178.4848.113.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-24 at 21:27 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > I'm still running an old ECS K7S5A with a XP 1800+. Well, that's not too terribly bad for most titles. Unfortunately, pricing of Socket-462/Athlon XP processors have actually gone up in price! As I "danced a jig before," I predicted all this. E.g., I bought my wife's Socket-462/Athlon XP2600+ (2.13GHz/266MHz) for $64 exactly 1 year ago. They are now no less than $92 on Pricewatch. The 333MHz FSB parts are a bit cheaper, but not as cheap as $64 was, and have a lower clock (the rating gets a boost from the FSB). AMD cut _all_ Athlon XP production months ago, hence the few Socket-462 "Sempron" are 333MHz FSB parts, much lower clocks and still not as cheap. The Sempron _has_ become the "new Duron," and Socket-754 seems to be its mainstay, while the Socket-939 is Athlon 64's. [ **Personal Note: That's the smartest thing I ever did. Although her XP1900+ from mid-2002 wasn't shabby, I wanted max out her CPU and memory, before handing down a GeForce 6800GT earlier this year. Her XP2600+ and 1GB RAM combination is still most excellent at running many current titles, and I now have it on all a MicroATX mainboard in a LAN Party case that is very portable. ] > I totally need to toast this rig and upgrade to a PCIe board, since > it's silly to purchase an AGP video card at this stage, methinks. Not entirely true. The AGP prices on new nVidia 6200/6600 cards have now finally dropped to affordable levels. PCIe doesn't offer the greatest boost, at least not in an AMD platform where _both_ are already segmented in its real system interconnect. And AGP mainboards are _cheap_ these days, because everyone wants PCIe. But here's my list of notes ... 1. People no longer buy AMD for cost, but for performance, upgradability, I/O and other features. AMD is no longer matching Intel on pricing, because it's consumer base is willing to pay for products. Still, I recommend AMD because of the bang/buck, especially for 64-bit Linux (very much so). 2. Socket-462 was worth the cost of upgrading the CPU a year ago, but now it's not. Go Socket-754 or 939. 3. Socket-754 is seeing the "last crop" of Athlon 64 processors before going Sempron only. If you want a 512KB L2 processor for $100 (Athlon 64 2800+), now is the time to buy it -- the 64-bit aspect (unless you run Linux or have more than 2GB of RAM) is overkill. Semprons only have 128-256KB L2, and are rated against Celeron, not P4. 4. Socket-754, 32-bit only Sempron is still viable for the future of Windows gaming, and will be for some time to come. Windows x64 is a _joke_ -- lack of 64-bit libraries, virtually no titles, lack of anti- virus and other utilities, etc... And Sempron does have a good roadmap, but it will always lack in clock/L2 versus Athlon 64. 5. If you want maximum performance, Socket-939 is the way. You'll need (2) DDR DIMMs, although you _can_reuse_ older DDR200-333 (PC1600-PC2700) memory with little performance degredation. You'll pay a bit more for the mainboard and the CPUs start at $150, but you'll do a good job of "future proofing" your purchase. > Any quality entry level PCIe boards? I'm looking at buying a NVidia > 6600 or 6800 variant. Probably a 6600 or 6600GT, though. AnandTech did a GPU performance evaluation of BF2. The system was an Athlon FX55 (not cheap!) with 1GB RAM (now that's more typical). Figure a good 25+% loss for more typical CPU. On the "budget" cards, 1024x768 with "jaggies" and only getting 30fps isn't nice in a 6200: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2466&p=2 Now at 1024x768 with 4xAA is more my game, the 6600GT was a respectable 42fps, which is probably around 30fps on a typical Socket-754/939 CPU: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2466&p=3 On the same page, note that jumping to 1280x1024 with 4xAA is going to drop your performance by 1/3rd, maybe more. So for those of you that have a typical 17" or 19" LCD at that resolution, and you hate jaggies like me, a GeForce 6800GT is going to be the minimum you want to look at. > I've heard things about the NForce4 chipset. I don't remember if what I > heard was good or bad since I haven't been looking for any mainboards > lately. For myself, the nForce4 has been simply _outstanding_ in _both_ Windows and Linux. In Windows, the drivers are perfect, no issues whatsoever. In Linux, 100% supported out-of-the-box on kernel 2.4.23+ or 2.6.5+. Yeah, no SATA NCQ, but even Intel doesn't have theirs perfected yet, and all other chipsets don't have really any NCQ anyway. And I already said I _prefer_ the nForce "NIC/software" as a "personal" firewall compared to even Symantec's. > Is there anything especially good to look at/for? > Is there anything I should definitely avoid? Don't look to Socket-939 and future-proofing _unless_ you are willing to pay: - $50+ for a well-ventilated case** - $100+ for a good ATX 2.0x PS, possibly $150 for triple +12V - $100-150 for a good, nForce Ultra mainboard **NOTE: At least with Athlon 64 3000+, 3200+ and 3500+ "Winchester" CPUs, the thermal disapation is only ~31W -- 1/3rd the typical P4 today (while P3-based Pentium M is sub-30W -- 1/3rd - 1/4th the P4). The "Rev. E" Athlon 64 "Venice" cores are all-the-rage now, with full SSE3 so good, that Intel has their compilers purposely run alternative code when an Athlon 64 is detected to cripple performance (i.e., the same code cripples performance on P4s too). And when running real ALU/FPU apps, it's no contest. The Venice core can suck up a bit more juice, but it seems to be worth it. It's getting hard to find "Rev. D" Athlon 64 "Winchesters" now. > I'm going to bring my own RAM (PC2700, 2 x 512 unregistered). That'll work just fine. Latency is more of a factor at DDR333+ than synchronous clock. And 1GB RAM is good for today's titles. 2GB is the userspace limitation of 32-bit Windows, which will be a major issue shortly. Since you already have 2 pieces, I would get a Socket-939 mainboard, if you don't mind paying $150+ for a CPU. > I might not be able to bring my own PSU, though. My current PSU is a Coolmax > AP-350X, with claimed ratings of 28A +3.3, 30A +5V, 15A +12V, 2A > +5Vsb. I suspect the 12V probably isn't enough? Well, for an _older_ ATX 1.0x Socket-754 (maybe even an ATX 1.0x Socket-939 mainboard), that will do with a GeForce 6200, maybe even a 6600GT, but definitely _not_ a 6800GT. It might boot with a 6800GT, but you're going to have crashes once you hit 3D. If you want to save money on the mainboard, say $50+, then get an older Socket-939 with AGP. If you want to save money on the CPU (Athlon 64 2800+ Socket-754), say another $50+, then get an older Socket-754 with AGP. If you are willing to "future proof," get yourself: - Mainboard At least an nVidia nForce4 Ultra mainboard. AnandTech's round-up: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2465 - Case A good case, I personally like MicroATX now thanx to the Chenming 118 (and the Aspire X-QPack based on it), but the mainboards are limited (no nVidia nForce4 Ultra yet, only nForce4 Standard). So if you need a "full" ATX case, you can look to something like the all-aluminum Antec LAN Boy, but I like the "flipped ATX" arrangement. You don't have to go all-aluminum Lian Li, but more steel based (sometimes with an aluminum front) which are now from various OEMs and have the "wind tunnel" for your CPU. Tom's Hardware had a good guide back in April, with the 4 cases on the front cover of the "flipped ATX/CPU windtunnel" design: http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20050411/index.html [ Although various cases were discussed, there were 3 basic "styles" -- the Antec 1000 series (my previous mainstay, and the common mod-based solutions), the "flipped ATX/CPU windtunnel" and another low-cost design (probably the lowest cost of all, I've seen for sub-$30 sometimes). ] The four flipped designs were namely the following: http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20050411/mid_tower_cases-28.html http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20050411/mid_tower_cases-32.html http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20050411/mid_tower_cases-36.html http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20050411/mid_tower_cases-48.html There are probably other OEMs out there that offer similar. - Power Supply: ATX 2.0x w/6-pin (2x3) "PCIe" connector Definitely ATX 2.0x now. You want the full 24-pin ATX 2.0x design, and not some ATX12V, although sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. The key is to note if there is a full 24-pin mainboard connector (even if separable) and _another_ 4-pin (2x2) P4 connector -- that's ATX 2.0x. Some have a 20-pin plus 4-pin. These ATX 2.0x PSes also have dual-independent +12V rails as standard. The other thing you _absolutely_ want for high-end PCIe video is a 6-pin (2x3) "PCIe" connector. It is basically the SSI "workstation" (WS) connector from the server/workstation world now adopted by the mainstream ATX world. Some power supplies are now modular, so instead of giving you a bundle of hard-wired cables to the PS. you can plug them in. If you decide to go nForce4 SLI instead of Ultra, get a PS that has _triple_ +12V -- one more +12V rail than standard in ATX2.0x. These power supplies are easily $130-150+, but they often have two (2) 6-pin (2x3) "PCIe" connectors. One $200 model even has _four_ independent +12V rails. - A "Rev. E" Athlon64 "Venice" This is the new mainstay processor with full SSE3 support. Won't cost you much more at all, 90nm, and fairly good at thermal dissapation. Definitely not a P4 in that regard either. ;-> - PCIe Video If you're going to spend all that money, definitely go for the GeForce 6600GT. At this time, I'm having difficulty recommending the GeForce 6800GT, giving the fact that the 7000 (7800GTX) series is here, and not only will pricing drop on the 6000 series (as it has somewhat on the 6800GT and Ultra), but the more "value" 7000 series should be out in 3-6 months. I really need to put up a recommended hardware page. Sooner or later I will, sigh. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 25 00:04:29 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: igh, been fantasizing about BF2 -- Socket-462/AthlonXP has gone up in price ... In-Reply-To: <1122263178.4848.113.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <200507242127.43893.jasonb@edseek.com> <1122263178.4848.113.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507250004.29970.jasonb@edseek.com> On Sunday 24 July 2005 23:46, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Sun, 2005-07-24 at 21:27 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > > I'm still running an old ECS K7S5A with a XP 1800+. > > Well, that's not too terribly bad for most titles. Unfortunately, > pricing of Socket-462/Athlon XP processors have actually gone up in > price! As I "danced a jig before," I predicted all this. I think I sort of maxed my board anyway. When I bought this CPU a year ago it was the fastest one that stopped at FSB133. All the other processors were good for 166 or 200. I wasn't expecting to be upgrading to a faster Socket A board in the future, so I went with the 1800+. > E.g., I bought my wife's Socket-462/Athlon XP2600+ (2.13GHz/266MHz) for > $64 exactly 1 year ago. They are now no less than $92 on Pricewatch. > The 333MHz FSB parts are a bit cheaper, but not as cheap as $64 was, and > have a lower clock (the rating gets a boost from the FSB). > > AMD cut _all_ Athlon XP production months ago, hence the few Socket-462 > "Sempron" are 333MHz FSB parts, much lower clocks and still not as > cheap. The Sempron _has_ become the "new Duron," and Socket-754 seems > to be its mainstay, while the Socket-939 is Athlon 64's. Oops. Oh well, I wasn't planning on buying anymore Socket A boards anyway. > > I totally need to toast this rig and upgrade to a PCIe board, since > > it's silly to purchase an AGP video card at this stage, methinks. > > Not entirely true. The AGP prices on new nVidia 6200/6600 cards have > now finally dropped to affordable levels. PCIe doesn't offer the > greatest boost, at least not in an AMD platform where _both_ are already > segmented in its real system interconnect. > > And AGP mainboards are _cheap_ these days, because everyone wants PCIe. Interesting. I guess my issue is I don't want to blow $150-$200 on an AGP card if my mainboard upgrade in the next 12-24 months won't support it. I don't upgrade video cards every 12-18 months, but maybe every 24 or so. So I'd either need to buy a new video card when I upgrade to a newer AMD solution or put off upgrading until I'm ready to upgrade to a PCIe VC 12 or 24 months from now. I guess it's a 'future proofing' issue. I can spend somewhat more now, but not have to buy another video card again in 12 months. (Although I guess some people do that anyway, so then it wouldn't be a consideration -- but it is for me.) > But here's my list of notes ... Excellent! > > Any quality entry level PCIe boards? I'm looking at buying a NVidia > > 6600 or 6800 variant. Probably a 6600 or 6600GT, though. > > AnandTech did a GPU performance evaluation of BF2. The system was an > Athlon FX55 (not cheap!) with 1GB RAM (now that's more typical). Figure > a good 25+% loss for more typical CPU. > > On the "budget" cards, 1024x768 with "jaggies" and only getting 30fps > isn't nice in a 6200: > http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2466&p=2 > > Now at 1024x768 with 4xAA is more my game, the 6600GT was a respectable > 42fps, which is probably around 30fps on a typical Socket-754/939 CPU: > http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2466&p=3 I don't think I've ever played a game at higher than 800x600. My video card is usually two generations behind the typical high end gamer, I think. > On the same page, note that jumping to 1280x1024 with 4xAA is going to > drop your performance by 1/3rd, maybe more. So for those of you that > have a typical 17" or 19" LCD at that resolution, and you hate jaggies > like me, a GeForce 6800GT is going to be the minimum you want to look > at. > Don't look to Socket-939 and future-proofing _unless_ you are willing to > pay: > - $50+ for a well-ventilated case** > - $100+ for a good ATX 2.0x PS, possibly $150 for triple +12V > - $100-150 for a good, nForce Ultra mainboard > I'll have to sleep on it, I guess. I can't remember the last time I spent like $500 at once on computer stuff. I might just buy a 6600 and stick my head in the sand for a year. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 25 01:01:33 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: igh, been fantasizing about BF2 -- Socket-462/AthlonXP has gone up in price ... In-Reply-To: <1122263178.4848.113.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <200507242127.43893.jasonb@edseek.com> <1122263178.4848.113.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507250101.33478.jasonb@edseek.com> On Sunday 24 July 2005 23:46, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Not entirely true. The AGP prices on new nVidia 6200/6600 cards have > now finally dropped to affordable levels. PCIe doesn't offer the > greatest boost, at least not in an AMD platform where _both_ are already > segmented in its real system interconnect. > > And AGP mainboards are _cheap_ these days, because everyone wants PCIe. I wish so many different companies didn't crapflood the market with so many NVidia variants. I can't tell which is what. This one was the cheapest from Monarch and this review claims the memory runs at the full 1000MHz the PCIe version does. I've seen many people complain some of the other 6600GT variants I looked at for AGP on newegg (via the comments section) run their memory at 900MHz. http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2005/02/01/xfx_geforce_6600_agp/1.html *shrug* I might just snag that and call it a done deal. Time for sleep. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Mon Jul 25 09:48:42 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: igh, been fantasizing about BF2 -- Socket-462/AthlonXP hasgone up in price ... Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858DD2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > 5. If you want maximum performance, Socket-939 is the way. I don't see any reason to get a Socket-754 at this point - there's little price difference in the motherboard unless you are completely focused on saving every dime. You also open yourself up to the nForce4 which is an awesome chipset. > You'll need (2) DDR DIMMs, They do work with one single DIMM, FYI. > On the "budget" cards, 1024x768 with "jaggies" and only getting 30fps > isn't nice in a 6200: > http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2466&p=2 FYI NewEgg has an ATI X700 Pro gfx card for $109, which performs very closely to the 6600GT. > For myself, the nForce4 has been simply _outstanding_ in _both_ Windows > and Linux. Ditto. I was really impressed with the Linux support - no fiddling needed. Then again, my Ubuntu install isn't finished (I need 5 mins to install the ATI drivers) but it got the network connection just fine. > Don't look to Socket-939 and future-proofing _unless_ you are > willing to pay: > - $50+ for a well-ventilated case** > - $100+ for a good ATX 2.0x PS, possibly $150 for triple +12V I got aan Antec case from CompUSA for $70 that has worked well, though it doesn't have a full ATX 2.0 PSU, it must be ATX 1 or something as it has the 20pin power connector rather than 24 pin. Still its working fine for me right now, with several HDs, a tape drive and ATI X700Pro card. > **NOTE: At least with Athlon 64 3000+, 3200+ and 3500+ "Winchester" > CPUs, the thermal disapation is only ~31W -- 1/3rd the typical P4 today > (while P3-based Pentium M is sub-30W -- 1/3rd - 1/4th the P4). I must have a Winchester then. > The "Rev. E" Athlon 64 "Venice" cores are all-the-rage now, http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=1581 Seems to be a good price too. > Since you already have 2 pieces, I would get a Socket-939 > mainboard, if you don't mind paying $150+ for a CPU. See above. > At least an nVidia nForce4 Ultra mainboard. AnandTech's round-up: > http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2465 I got an SLI board but wish I'd gotten an Ultra board - you get a much more usable system from the expansion POV. > - Power Supply: ATX 2.0x w/6-pin (2x3) "PCIe" connector > > Definitely ATX 2.0x now. I concur, doctor. > One $200 model even has _four_ independent +12V rails. > - A "Rev. E" Athlon64 "Venice" I lost touch with the product variants, I suspect my A64/3000+ is an older one. > - PCIe Video > > If you're going to spend all that money, definitely go for the GeForce > 6600GT. .. Or save $50 and get the ATI X700 if you aren't too fussed over 3d support under Linux. > I really need to put up a recommended hardware page. Sooner > or later I will, sigh. It'd sure take care of the constant FAQs. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 25 10:48:38 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:08 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: igh, been fantasizing about BF2 -- Socket-462/AthlonXP hasgone up in price ... In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858DD2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050725144838.48826.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > I don't see any reason to get a Socket-754 at this point - > there's little price difference in the motherboard unless > you are completely focused on saving every dime. I only mentioned it because right now, with the Athlon64 2800+ for Socket-754 still available for around $100, it's the cheapest and gives you fairly good performance. Otherwise, I totally agree. For "future proofing," I think spending another $50-100 on the CPU is best. > You also open yourself up to the nForce4 which is an > awesome chipset. I won't disagree there at all. > They do work with one single DIMM, FYI. Oh yeah, they will "work," just not as well. ;-ppp > FYI NewEgg has an ATI X700 Pro gfx card for $109, which > performs very closely to the 6600GT. Unfortunately not so in Linux, but I assume that's not the focus here. And most people agree that ATI's unified drivers (both Linux, as well as Windows) aren't as stable as nVidia's, although they _have_ improved greatly in 6 months. > Ditto. I was really impressed with the Linux support - no > fiddling needed. People have really got to stop blindly bashing nVidia. They put more people on Linux than any chipset or graphics vendor. Their 2D video works awesome and is one of the best, documented chipset. The problem is the 3D, which remains little documented since the XFree86 3.3.x legal fiasco when they did release source code. ATI, Matrox and others are in the same boat. The chipset are completely supported with 100% GPL code now. They were freed from Intel's IP license on the AGPgart once PCIe came out, so even the AGPgart is now in the kernel. And they were freed on the NIC over a year ago (I just found out this recently), so the forcedeth driver is now fairly mature for 1000Mbps (as much as it was for 10/100 before). > Then again, my Ubuntu install isn't finished (I need 5 mins > to install the ATI drivers) but it got the network > connection just fine. Ack, can't bring myself to use ATI on Linux. > I got aan Antec case from CompUSA for $70 that has worked > well, though it doesn't have a full ATX 2.0 PSU, it must be > ATX 1 or something as it has the 20pin power connector > rather than 24 pin. Still its working fine for me right > now, with several HDs, a tape drive and ATI X700Pro card. Some ATX 2.0x mainboards take an ATX 1.0x PS, but it isn't recommended. > I lost touch with the product variants, I suspect my > A64/3000+ is an older one. Probably like my A64/3200+, Rev. D Winchester. > It'd sure take care of the constant FAQs. I now have a Geocities page until I get my domains back up (I know, I know, it doesn't take long). I think I might throw one on there. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 25 18:30:05 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows Vista says "Hasta La Vista" to all major Longhorn "technology" promises ... Message-ID: <20050725223005.69363.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, last week the rumors came out and Microsoft finally announced NT 6.0 "Longhorn" is going to be named "Windows Vista." Here's the "new view" that Vista de la Windows delivers: 1. INDIGO Services ... cricket, cricket, cricket ... [ Yes, that means _nothing_ else!) ] - What is INIDGO? Indigo is a sandbox of .NET services atop of aging and "Chicago" polluted Win32. In other words, XML/XSL and other content/style and related services over HTTP and other Internet protocols. Win32 remains unchanged from its evolution from ideal, single user security to "Chicago"-Internet Explorer infested DLLs with no security. The idea here is that Microsoft will sandbox all these Internet services away from the normal "LAN" services we already have had since NT3.x, 4.0 and 5.0/2000, as Win32 with Access/MSDE still remains the foundation for ADS, MS-RPC, SMB and even Exchange (it's ESMTP service, for Internet e-mail, remains a wildcard -- see MONAD). Now how is this any different than a Java sandbox of services atop of Win32? It isn't. But Microsoft couldn't call it Java(R), as they lost the rights, but not the code (Java 1.1). And Microsoft has re-licensed Java from Sun, in their new alliance (or didn't you know what that was all about and not some anti-Linux thing?). And best of all, that's only in "Longhorn Server" now "Windows Vista Server," due in 2007. Now, with all due respect to Governor Aaarnold, Longhorn is turning into one of Microsoft has the best sequels ever! The original movie, NT (New Terminator) 4.0 "Cairo": First Vaporware Totally had the world fooled. The supposed "Consumer NT" was totally over-promised as "Cario." They eventually became "Cario" technologies and eventually VAPORWARE! The CarioFS that was supposed to fix design flaws in NTFS died, along with the promise of a "real" OpenGL desktop, as DirectX had taken over. Now we have the new blockbuster ... NT II -- 6.0 "Longhorn": Windows Hasta La Vista Let's review those Longhorn now WinFX technologies that have NT has said "Hasta La Vista" too ... 2. WINFS, fka CarioFS 3. AVALON Desktop with DirectX 10, now known as WGF2.0 4. MONAD Shell Will these former Longhorn features, now "WinFX Technologies," ever see the light-of-day? Hmmm, history lesson ... Win32 was 1991, NT 3.1 was 1993, Gates gave the go-ahead to "Chicago" (DOS/Win) not NT/Win, in 1994 and resulted in NT 4.0 "Cario" _dying_ as promised, because people were still developing for "Chicago." Win32 died as an API, infested with "Chicago," and NT 4.0 released in 1997 was rather pathetic from its promises. All the separated "Cario Technologies" died off into VAPORWARE. .NET came about in 2001, .NET Server nka Windows Server 2003 came out in 2004 and was _nothing_ of .NET, and by 2004, the MS Office and Internet Explorer teams were successful in keeping the Win32 codebase and _preventing_ .NET security and other APIs from going into the _core_ of Visual Studio .NET (Microsoft's own applications division, not Independent Software Vendors, ISV, is the "core problem" with the lack of new API adoption). And just as with "Cario," all of the so-called NT 6.0 "Longhorn" promises became separate "technologies" -- basically all but "Indigo," which Microsoft already had from its Java 1.1 codebase now C#.NET (although many things were missing, hence their Java re-license recently). But now is also the time of the Internet and Open Source. >From the looks of it, Microsoft is releasing many of these technologies in Betas and to MSDN developers. It's clear that WINFS and MONAD are _CLEARLY_BROKEN_ and they _BREAK_COMPATIBILITY_ in the OS rather significantly. So maybe Microsoft is hoping that others will test, modify and fix this? Maybe something that is "released, known, but not supported," like the utilities and services you'd find on you "Resource Kit" CD or other downloads, even from Microsoft. It will be interesting to say the least. But until then, what are these technologies, at least as promised??? - What is WINFS? Most people don't know that WinFS isn't really about giving you a cool database in the filesystem. It's largely about fixing bugs inherit to the design of NTFS, without breaking applications. Where NT 4.0 Cario, which became the separate "Cario Technology" known as CarioFS, failed and turned into vaporware, NT 4.0 Longhorn, which became the separate "WinFX Technology" known as WinFS, doesn't look much better. Why? It breaks all sorts of compatibility. NTFS has turned into a total support fiasco with hacks upon hacks, all because Microsoft made a serious boo-boo in design approach. It's a major reason why Windows domains exist, because each NTFS installation is tied to the Security Accounts Manager (SAM) of the registry of the system that created it. Domain Controllers (DCs) are merely systems that make their registry-SAM information available network-wide, which doesn't totally solve the problem. For more on this history, see my recent SLUUG presentation on "Low-Level Interoperability" Part 3: http://www.geocities.com/thebs413/SLUUG_LowLevelInterop_Part3.pdf Conclusion: WinFS is VAPORWARE like CarioFS before it - What is AVALON? Well, it's really 2 things. One, the concept of Avalon really breaks a lot of legacy and (yet more poor) NT design approaches. One is the insistence by Gates himself that NT not be bootable into a Command Line Interface (CLI) mode, even though it uses CMD.EXE from OS/2. This gave rise to the Graphical Display Interface (GDI). Although Microsoft has added some modes in NT5.0/2000+ like the "Command Console," 99.999% of Windows programs rely on the GDI, and won't work under it (including the _core_ NT kernel/DLLs like the registry and other access libraries). Avalon is the first attempt to transition new programs off of the GDI requirement. Two, Avalon is also Microsoft's attempt to produce a desktop framework that leverages the Graphics Processor Unit (GPU). For those who have experienced MacOS X's QuartzExtreme, or maybe even FreeDesktop.org's Cario on Linux (not to be confused with NT 4.0's codename) or maybe Sun's Looking Glass (which is far more than just video/display -- a quantum leap in total 3D computing, long story), you have seen what using the GPU and storing windows as "bitmap planes" can do. It's not about "eye candy," but moving the load of overlapping windows from main memory maps and CPU to the GPU which it is explicitly designed for. It is far more efficient to represent a 2D window as a bitmap on a 3D surface inside of the GPU, and those built-in geometry functions of your video card, instead of using main memory and the CPU interconnect/processing rather "dumbly." It massively increases spead, and allows far more tricks to be had for _reduced_ memory and CPU footprint. Let me say that again, it _reduces_ memory and CPU footprint for remedial tasks, and basically adds "eyecandy" for free. Now we come to AVALON. As you will read in the near future, Microsoft _is_ supposively shipping Avalon in NT 6.0 "Longhorn" client, now Windows Vista (Client? Home? Pro?) in 2006. What Microsoft doesn't tell you that it will be coming with what they now call Windows Graphics Foundations (WGF) 1.0 or 1.1. So what is WGF? WGF 1.x? WGF 2.0? More on that in a bit ... MacOS X's QuartzExtreme, FreeDesktop's Cario and Sun's Looking Glass all use OpenGL, typically either 1.3 or newer 2.0. OpenGL is a true and full geometry setup, designed for professional graphics on-the-on-set. Even Microsoft standardized on OpenGL _until_ they couldn't get it to run on "Chicago" and its 386Enhanced mode (switching constantly between Real86 and Protected386 -- yes, Windows 95/98/Me _still_ do this!), so that's where attempts with WinG, then DOS Direct Memory Map aka DirectMM aka Direct2D, then eventually DirectX. DirectX came from the other direction, "What 3D do we need for games now? We'll add professional graphics later." Microsoft has done an excellent job swindling IP out of major OpenGL holders in the last few years (so much so that Microsoft's #1 strike at Freedomware will be in the 3D space), and DirectX 7, 8 and 9 have gained more and more geometry, T&L and other OpenGL capabilities. But DirectX 9 still isn't capable of many features required for Avalon. So what is WGF 1.x? WGF 1.x is _still_ DirectX 9, as it can handle the new Avalon system as best as it can. It's largely a combination of some hardware GPU functions with a lot of software "back-fill." The performance of Avalon on full eye-candy on WGF 1.x that will be shipping in Windows Vista in 2006 is rather _pathetic_. Which is why there are 3 options, and most people will want to choose either the legacy Explorer or middle (some Avalon features) settings. WGF 2.0 is basically what DirectX 10 was going to be, with the full support for Avalon off-loading to the GPU and its 3D framebuffer. It will _not_ ship with Windows Vista and is projected for release some 18 months later, probably after Windows Vista Server, circa late 2007. Conclusion: Avalon will suck until WGF 2.0 comes out. But WGF 2.0 will come out and won't be vaporware. Microsoft has assured that applications will be written for Avalon by including WGF 1.x in the initial Windows Vista, although tools in the current Visual Studio suite still remain an issue. Further Conclusions: It is my hope that Avalon will eventually make it possible to run Windows software much "lighter" than the current Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) and Independent Client Architecture (ICA) invented by Citrix. Long story short, RDP/ICA rely on MultiWin, first used by Citrix in NT 3.51 "Daytona" and NT 4.0 Terminal Server, then standard in NT5.0+. MultiWin virtualizes multiple GDI instances, which allows Windows programs (which normally require the single, _physical_ GDI hardware) to run -- and then be remotely displayed. Of course, as with anything Microsoft, the RAD tools in Visual Studio will abuse the WGF/Avalon APIs, and probably render this improbable and introduce a new set of compatibility issues with remote display (which companies like Citrix will yet again fix ;-). - What is the MONAD Shell? One thing NT continues to be plagued by is the lack of _good_ shell scripting tools and communities built around them for _system_ level functionality. Yeah, Microsoft has turned Basic into a scripting language for users with virtually _no_ security, so when turned into forms like Windows Scripting Host (WSH) at the shell, or ActiveX for the web, security was a _joke_. Now there is ActiveState, which Microsoft quickly funded after their Perl::Win32 distribution became popular, but it's clearly not native. Various POSIX/UNIX environments like Cygwin (complete POSIX emulation layer) and MinGW (Win32-POSIX conversion libraries) and even Microsoft's own licenses of MKS' and Interix toolkits are rather non-native and incomplete. It was clear Microsoft needed a new shell environment, one that was ADS integrated, full .NET API/security-based, powerful and maybe could even challenge traditional UNIX mindset and features. MONAD was the project. Unfortunately, like Cario Technologies in NT 4.0 before it, it has been segmented as a WinFX Technology and not part of Longhorn nka Windows Vista. MONAD could serve some serious needs for Microsoft. #1 is my personal favorite, the ESMTP parsing logic in Microsoft Exchange. Back in 1999, I found serious RFC821/822 non-compliance issues in the ESMTP service of Exchange 5.5. In a nutshell, there was a Windows problem tracking system that was spitting out malformed (and even correctly formed) SMTP that a small, remote office of my company had (supported by a Microsoft Solutions Provider, who would quickly become a source of great disgust). Since I controlled the DNS and MX records for the domain, I regularly got the finger pointed at me, but I eventually started throwing raw, properly formed and malformed SMTP strings, based on what the problem tracking program was trying to send it on the local host. I was able to _crash_ the NT server, and _reproduce_ it. I got _no_where_ with Microsoft support, the MSP staff, and I tried to escalate it to report it as a serious bug. No dice. Eventually, when I wanted to take it to CERT, I was basically told not to. So I left it. Apparently the parser is still at the heart of Exchange 2000 and even 2003, allowing even a full and remote root exploit in 5.5 and 2000, and crashing of Exchange 2003. As much as Microsoft has now contacted me (ever since they _really_ got "serious" after the SQL Slammer worm of January 2003 -- almost a good year after they got "fake serious/marketing gimmick" about security), I have lost all my notes. I'm sure one benefit of MONAD was to create a _secure_, .NET shell environment for Exchange, among other services. Even if Exchange's non-ESMTP services are still Win32, and not .NET, many of the Internet-facing components, and add-ons, could use the environment and be more well "sandboxed." Because right now, Microsoft has virtually _no_ formal environment for secure scripting, and the best way to get that would be to build a .NET environment (which is very UNIX-like in security, as Miguel deIcaza and other Ximian developers behind the Freedomware, .NET-based Mono development environment feel) for scripting. Conclusion: Apparently MONAD is still in development and while it might _never_ be an official Microsoft subsystem, it might be limitedly used without warranty/support. And it wouldn't surprise me if it is quite unknowingly in various Microsoft Internet services, like the ESMTP service of the next release of Exchange (2006?). As always, and an original NT 3.1 beta tester myself, I have to admit Microsoft has come up with some excellent APIs and technologies in their history -- Win32 and .NET are two of them. But at the same time, not only were they not original, but more importantly, Microsoft _never_ adopted them themselves! They are the king of reuse, and .NET has died, just like Win32 has died, at the hands of security-ignorant, DOS/Win "Chicago" code. Code that caused Microsoft to abandon even the basic Win32 security model, why you must run as Power User or Administrator, why NT5.1/Windows XP was "hacked" so programs could run that didn't under NT5.0/Windows 2000, then "unhacked" back to NT5.0/Windows 2000-like settings in Service Pack 2 (SP2), and Chicago-designed Internet Explorer, implanted into Visual Studio in the mid-'90s (and anything built upon it), is why you will _never_ rid Win32 of _core_ DLL security issues. At this point, Microsoft is only offering a "sandbox" .NET environment in Indigo. And it's way behind even Linux/Sun in desktop technologies, let alone well and heavily behind Apple. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 25 18:46:06 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] 6600GT or 6800LE? Message-ID: <200507251846.06815.jasonb@edseek.com> Anyone successfully unlock a 6800LE? I get the impression they're similar, but if you can successfully unlock the pipes to 12 or 16 on the 6800LE, you end up with much better AA/AF performance at higher resolutions than the 6600GT. Thoughts? -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 25 18:53:25 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: 6600GT or 6800LE? In-Reply-To: <200507251846.06815.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <20050725225326.19370.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > Anyone successfully unlock a 6800LE? > I get the impression they're similar, but if you can > successfully unlock the pipes to 12 or 16 on the 6800LE, > you end up with much better AA/AF performance at higher > resolutions than the 6600GT. > Thoughts? I've seen numerous reports, and the conclusion is ... Don't! They are disabled for a reason! Remember, GPUs are now _huge_ in transitor count. It's much like fabbing CPUs these days, you have defects in the layers. On CPUs, sometimes you can localize those defects to a cache block (which is the majority of a CPU), and sell the CPU in a model with less cache. Same deal on GPUs, various vector/pipes are damaged, so the turn off a block of 4 or 8 and sell it as a different product. If you enable some, you might be enabling yourself a faulty product. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 25 19:45:33 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: 6600GT or 6800LE? In-Reply-To: <20050725225326.19370.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050725225326.19370.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507251945.34048.jasonb@edseek.com> On Monday 25 July 2005 18:53, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > I've seen numerous reports, and the conclusion is ... > Don't! They are disabled for a reason! > > Remember, GPUs are now _huge_ in transitor count. It's much > like fabbing CPUs these days, you have defects in the layers. > > On CPUs, sometimes you can localize those defects to a cache > block (which is the majority of a CPU), and sell the CPU in a > model with less cache. > > Same deal on GPUs, various vector/pipes are damaged, so the > turn off a block of 4 or 8 and sell it as a different > product. If you enable some, you might be enabling yourself > a faulty product. True enough. But many rumors of success from different people in forums with little to gain by making stuff up is somewhat compelling. I've never been an OCer, though. I'll probably get the 6600 just because it's a sure thing. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 25 19:53:23 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: 6600GT or 6800LE? In-Reply-To: <200507251945.34048.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <20050725235323.26582.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > True enough. But many rumors of success from different > people in forums with little to gain by making stuff up > is somewhat compelling. Of course, because they spend the time to find the units that are actually undamaged, and then testing how far/well they run. But the likelihood of getting all of them is very remote -- there are typically 1+ damaged units, and 1+ units that are "less than stable." > I've never been an OCer, though. I'll probably get the > 6600 just because it's a sure thing. Well, power (as in amps) is always a consideration too. Sometimes they can suck up the juice. I haven't seen many benchmarks on the 6800LE. How much slower is its clock? If at all? I remember that was the kicker with the 5700LE, it was _massively_slower_ and wasn't even 2/3rd the speed of the original 5700. Benchmarks of the 5700LE were hard to come by. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org Sent from Yahoo Mail (please excuse any missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 25 20:14:36 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: 6600GT or 6800LE? In-Reply-To: <20050725235323.26582.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050725235323.26582.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507252014.36562.jasonb@edseek.com> On Monday 25 July 2005 19:53, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > I've never been an OCer, though. I'll probably get the > > 6600 just because it's a sure thing. > > Well, power (as in amps) is always a consideration too. > Sometimes they can suck up the juice. > > I haven't seen many benchmarks on the 6800LE. > How much slower is its clock? If at all? > > I remember that was the kicker with the 5700LE, it was > _massively_slower_ and wasn't even 2/3rd the speed of the > original 5700. Benchmarks of the 5700LE were hard to come > by. Oops, I closed all my links. I believe the difference is the 6800LE has 256-bit memory bus (but still DDR1 RAM) whereas the 6600GT only has 128-bit. The 6600GT has a faster memory speed and core speed, though. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 25 21:07:24 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: 6600GT or 6800LE? In-Reply-To: <20050725235323.26582.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050725235323.26582.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507252107.24676.jasonb@edseek.com> On Monday 25 July 2005 19:53, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Jason Boxman wrote: > > True enough. But many rumors of success from different > > people in forums with little to gain by making stuff up > > is somewhat compelling. > > Of course, because they spend the time to find the units that > are actually undamaged, and then testing how far/well they > run. But the likelihood of getting all of them is very > remote -- there are typically 1+ damaged units, and 1+ units > that are "less than stable." I figured what the heck and just went ahead and bought the 6600GT. XFX GeForce 6600 GT 128MB DDR3/8x-AGP/TV-Out/Dual-DVI (Retail Box) I couldn't help myself. I've never owned a card within the current generation in my life. Actually with the 7800 or whatever, I'm very shortly going to be in the previous generation of cards. But then, I'm usually two generations behind the current crop of cards, so it's still a step up. I just hope the 6600GT weathers as well as the Ti series has. (But then if I later upgrade to PCIe it likely won't even matter. Sigh.) Oh, apparently according to the description above, this card is DDR3. I guess my previous post was incorrect. Perhaps they're all starting to ship with DDR3 now. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 25 21:34:27 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: 600GT or 6800LE? In-Reply-To: <200507252014.36562.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <20050725235323.26582.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507252014.36562.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1122341667.4468.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 20:14 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > I believe the difference is the 6800LE has 256-bit memory bus (but still DDR1 > RAM) whereas the 6600GT only has 128-bit. The 6600GT has a faster memory > speed and core speed, though. It all depends. At the GPU core, here is the breakdown [ From AnandTech: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2238 ] Fab Vertex Pixel Memory ------ ------ ----- ---------- GeForce 6200 0.11um 3 4 64/128-bit GeForce 6600 0.11um 3 8 128-bit GeForce 6800 0.13um 6 16 256-bit >From there, you can play games with the configurations. E.g., the "GT" (as well as Ultra) editions have DDR3, instead of DDR, the former having clock rates much higher than the latter. Ironically, I haven't seen a 6600GT DDR3 with more than 128MB of RAM, but the 6600 DDR is available with 256MB. The AGP 6200 is typically available with 128MB of RAM, the PCIe variants are 128MB for the original, 16, 32 and 64MB for the "TurboCache" (64, 128, 256MB "main memory" usage). If you were buying last fall, or even earlier this year, I'd say go for the 6800GT. But given the new 7000 series, I'd say spend as far under $200 as you can, and upgrade when the prices fall, or a "value" 7000 series comes out. I'm kinda kicking myself for buying a GeForce 6800GT at the beginning of April, instead of waiting a couple of months for a 6800Ultra 512MB for not much more, or even the 7800GTX for a little beyond that. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Jul 25 21:47:47 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: 600GT or 6800LE? In-Reply-To: <1122341667.4468.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <20050725235323.26582.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507252014.36562.jasonb@edseek.com> <1122341667.4468.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507252147.47997.jasonb@edseek.com> On Monday 25 July 2005 21:34, you wrote: > I'm kinda kicking myself for buying a GeForce 6800GT at the beginning of > April, instead of waiting a couple of months for a 6800Ultra 512MB for > not much more, or even the 7800GTX for a little beyond that. Although at that point you've sort of drifted off into the stratosphere. But then everyone has his own price point. Mine was $155 2nd day air to my door. ;) It's kind of an odd time to be buying computer peripherals. If you're not making the leap to PCIe, but just want a more recent video card, it seems you're putting off an even larger capital expense by purchasing an AGP card now. So be it, I suppose. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 25 22:25:08 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: 6600GT or 6800LE? In-Reply-To: <200507252107.24676.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <20050725235323.26582.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507252107.24676.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1122344708.4468.52.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 21:07 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Oh, apparently according to the description above, this card is DDR3. I guess > my previous post was incorrect. Perhaps they're all starting to ship with > DDR3 now. The "GT/Ultra" 6600/6800 designate DDR3 SDRAM. The "regular" 6600/6800 use "regular" DDR SDRAM. See my other post ... ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 25 22:30:31 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: 600GT or 6800LE? In-Reply-To: <200507252147.47997.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <20050725235323.26582.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507252014.36562.jasonb@edseek.com> <1122341667.4468.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507252147.47997.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1122345031.4468.59.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 21:47 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Although at that point you've sort of drifted off into the stratosphere. But > then everyone has his own price point. Mine was $155 2nd day air to my door. Before the 6800GT, I had never spend more than $249 on a video card. I spend $249 on a Retail 3dfx Voodoo3 3500TV 16MB AGP. I also spend $224 on a Retail GeForce4 Ti4400 128MB AGPx4 w/ViVO. I bought my AGP 6800GT DDR3 256MB last October for $399 with Doom3. That's now in my wife's Athlon XP2600+ in her MicroATX Aspire X-QPack. I bought my current PCIe x16 6800GT DDR3 256MB on March 31st for $359. That's in my Athlon64 3200+ in my MicroATX Chenming 118. My video card was literally 40% of my Athlon64 system's price. > It's kind of an odd time to be buying computer peripherals. If you're not > making the leap to PCIe, but just want a more recent video card, it seems > you're putting off an even larger capital expense by purchasing an AGP card > now. So be it, I suppose. Nah, not for $155 total. For desktops, the GPU is now _the_ CPU. Especially as FreeDesktop.ORG's Cario and Sun's Looking Glass now handle the 2D as 3D, and if Microsoft _ever_ ships WGF 2.0 as planned about 18 months after Windows Hasta La Vista, it will have the same. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From damien at mc-kenna.com Mon Jul 25 23:08:24 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows Vista says "Hasta La Vista" to all major Longhorn "technology" promises ... In-Reply-To: <20050725223005.69363.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050725223005.69363.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42E5A928.5070701@mc-kenna.com> Excellent write up, Bryan. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 26 00:49:38 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Okay, I've finally created a blog ... Message-ID: <1122353378.4468.73.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> No more NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome, I've just created a blog on Blogger/Blogspot. I'm going to post my detailed rantings there from now on. I'm also going to get some FAQs finished off in the coming weeks. First and foremost is the Athlon64/Opteron hardware FAQ. Then I'll probably move to CD/DVD Recording/Rewriting. And from there, who knows, there's plenty of stuff like Directory Services, Red Hat Configuration Management, etc... -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 26 01:04:18 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Okay, I've finally created a blog ... duh, address ... In-Reply-To: <1122353378.4468.73.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1122353378.4468.73.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1122354258.4468.84.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 23:49 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > No more NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome, I've just created a blog on > Blogger/Blogspot. I'm going to post my detailed rantings there from now > on. Duh, address might be nice ... http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ From m9u35g at gmail.com Tue Jul 26 09:23:13 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Okay, I've finally created a blog ... duh, address ... In-Reply-To: <1122354258.4468.84.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1122353378.4468.73.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1122354258.4468.84.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <46f680d050726062362a7250d@mail.gmail.com> On 7/26/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 23:49 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > No more NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome, I've just created a blog on > > Blogger/Blogspot. I'm going to post my detailed rantings there from now > > on. > > Duh, address might be nice ... > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ Looks great! -- Justin Keyes From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 27 17:11:49 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Looks like Mary Jo Foley's been reading my blog ... Message-ID: <20050727211149.81266.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My PC_Support post and subsequent blog _predate_ her article, dated today: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1840726,00.asp I dumped 100% of my post/blog from memory (which is why I post so much / am so verbose). -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From philb at philb.us Thu Jul 28 00:23:16 2005 From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Looks like Mary Jo Foley's been reading my blog ... In-Reply-To: <20050727211149.81266.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050727211149.81266.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507280023.17080.philb@philb.us> On Wednesday 27 July 2005 05:11 pm, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > My PC_Support post and subsequent blog _predate_ her article, > dated today: > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1840726,00.asp Boy, no kidding. -- "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -Mark Twain From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Jul 28 00:25:49 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Looks like Mary Jo Foley's been reading my blog ... In-Reply-To: <200507280023.17080.philb@philb.us> References: <20050727211149.81266.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507280023.17080.philb@philb.us> Message-ID: <200507280025.49618.jasonb@edseek.com> On Thursday 28 July 2005 00:23, Phil Barnett wrote: > On Wednesday 27 July 2005 05:11 pm, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > My PC_Support post and subsequent blog _predate_ her article, > > dated today: > > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1840726,00.asp > > Boy, no kidding. ROFL. The whole site's 404 right now. Very nice. Okay, it recovered. Quite funny. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 28 00:34:12 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Looks like Mary Jo Foley's been reading my blog ... In-Reply-To: <200507280023.17080.philb@philb.us> References: <20050727211149.81266.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507280023.17080.philb@philb.us> Message-ID: <1122525252.6112.159.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 00:23 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > Boy, no kidding. I've been meaning to write it for weeks, ever since MONAD was out and the details came out on AVALON/WGF just before that. I didn't find the time/interest until I did my "Low-Level Windows-UNIX Interoperability" presentation for SLUUG. We got into a tangent on "Cairo" and "Longhorn" so I finally got the interest to write up something for PC_Support (which I later put on my new Blog). Point-by-point almost. And I'm not kidding, it was 100% from memory. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Thu Jul 28 09:13:40 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Looks like Mary Jo Foley's been reading my blog ... Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858E70@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > Point-by-point almost. And I'm not kidding, it was 100% from memory. I mentioned your blog post on an OSNews article about Vista and the major complaint was the lack of sources. Any chance you'd do a follow-up or update it with some details of where you got your information? -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Thu Jul 28 12:35:25 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] One reason why Opterons sell less... Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858E87@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> We're looking at the possibility of needed a rack server pronto. I look at CDW's site to order one and the DL145 has a 2+ week delay whereas DL140's are available immediately. If we end up needing a server I'd love to push for the DL145 but we need it yesterday, not in a month's time. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From whittake at sbaflorida.com Thu Jul 28 18:05:12 2005 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Window Based Printer Server Message-ID: <42E95698.6030305@sbaflorida.com> My daughter brought back a 386sx box that I had put together for her 15 or 20 years ago. It has Windows 95 on it, and most likely a minimum of memory. I am the not too proud owner of a Lexmark e322 ps printer that can do all sorts of things in the Windows domain but it is not worth a Tinkers Dam when it comes to Linux, and most especially Debian, plus I have an HP Office Jet 710, all in one printer, copier, fax, scanner, dishwasher, etc, and an HP Photo 1000 attached to my wifes machine - some 75 feet away, in our house but attached to our network. I have a nice collection of ISA ethernet cards, and of course PCI cards that I could install in the 386 box and make it into a Printer Server based on Windows 95 (or whatever else might be appropriate). Is this a feasible use of such an antique or is it not the smartest thing to do? I have other boxes that I can use but I felt that the old box is not much good for anything else. I would truly appreciate some thoughts and comments on this potential usage. Wild and/or Sane Suggestions are solicited. Homer Whittaker From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 28 15:18:25 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: One reason why Opterons sell less... In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858E87@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050728191825.91049.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > We're looking at the possibility of needed a rack server > pronto. I look at CDW's site to order one and the DL145 > has a 2+ week delay whereas DL140's are available > immediately. If we end up needing a server I'd love to > push for the DL145 but we need it yesterday, not in > a month's time. 2 weeks? That's nothing! ;-> Try 2 months earlier in the year! Now you know what the AMD v. Intel lawsuit is about. It's _not_ about AMD unable to meet demand. It's about Intel pressuring HP to keep AMD server sales under 10%, instead of at the 30% _and_growing_ they have been. Intel is furious right now with HP and IBM, and is really putting the hammer down on them since the beginning of the year. HP is really done its best to cut AMD sales to 1/3rd, as Intel has demanded. As I said before, this isn't about a vendor who claims consumers want their product. This is literally about a vendor who has _proof_ consumers want their product, the backorders and they have the supply, but Intel is interfering with the sales. AMD's signature partner right now is Monarch Computer, a tier-2 OEM. It used to be HP and IBM, tier-1s. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Jul 28 15:31:12 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: One reason why Opterons sell less... In-Reply-To: <20050728191825.91049.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050728191825.91049.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507281531.12936.jasonb@edseek.com> On Thursday 28 July 2005 15:18, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > AMD's signature partner right now is Monarch Computer, a > tier-2 OEM. It used to be HP and IBM, tier-1s. Sadly I haven't had much success with them so far. When I called for a server quote some weeks ago, the voice mail was full during the day and no one around. I ordered my 6600GT from them Monday night. Two days to retrieve it from the warehouse, okay, fine. So I wait and hear nothing even this morning. I wouldn't have chosen 2nd day air if it was going to arrive on Monday. Waste of $10. So I call and they're supposedly going to overnight it, if they have any 6600GTs left. That's nice and all, and I appreciate it. But it's 3:30 and I haven't gotten my shipping confirmation email, yet. Meanwhile my experience ordering a server from Rackmount Pro earlier this month went without a hitch. I checked reseller ratings and Monarch has a good rating. Perhaps I've just been unfortunate, but this week isn't the week I'm interested in dealing with it. Any other week I'd probably shrug and not care. Maybe I'm just used to ordering stuff from Newegg and having things delivered in a few days at most. Newegg definitely ships fast. What's more, Monarch is in Georgia. I really ought to have a Monday night order by Friday afternoon when it's listed as in-stock, 1-2 days, with 2nd day air. Sigh. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 28 16:19:59 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: One reason why Opterons sell less... In-Reply-To: <200507281531.12936.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <20050728201959.49506.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > Sadly I haven't had much success with them so far. When I > called for a server quote some weeks ago, the voice mail was > full during the day and no one around. > I ordered my 6600GT from them Monday night. Two days to > retrieve it from the warehouse, okay, fine. So I wait and > hear nothing even this morning. I wouldn't have chosen 2nd > day air if it was going to arrive on Monday. Waste of $10. > So I call and they're supposedly going to overnight it, if > they have any 6600GTs left. > That's nice and all, and I appreciate it. Is this NewEgg you're talking about? Or Monarch Computer? > But it's 3:30 and I haven't gotten my shipping confirmation > email, yet. Meanwhile my experience ordering a server from > Rackmount Pro earlier this month went without a hitch. If you already have a good tier-2/whitebox provider, then I'd just stick with them. I only mentioned Monarch because their AMD's main partner right now. Just a name, that's all. > I checked reseller ratings and Monarch has a good rating. > Perhaps I've just been unfortunate, but this week isn't the > week I'm interested in dealing with it. Any other week I'd > probably shrug and not care. Maybe I'm just used to > ordering stuff from Newegg and having things delivered in a > few days at most. Newegg definitely ships fast. For parts, Monarch is going to be _slower_ than NewEgg. Definitely do _not_ use Monarch for parts over NewEgg if you need them quick. ;-> > What's more, Monarch is in Georgia. I really ought to have > a Monday night order by Friday afternoon when it's listed as > in-stock, 1-2 days, with 2nd day air. Many things drop-ship from elsewhere. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 28 16:44:55 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Looks like Mary Jo Foley's been reading my blog ... In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858E70@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858E70@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1122583495.4486.1.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 09:13 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > I mentioned your blog post on an OSNews article about Vista and the > major complaint was the lack of sources. Any chance you'd do a > follow-up or update it with some details of where you got your > information? The earlier stuff on Cairo is largely long gone. As far as the Longhorn stuff, you'll find plenty of links to lots of articles in a PC_Support search. Mary Jo, eWeek and others were a lot of my sources. It was just funny to see Mary Jo's "summary" hit around the same time as mine. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Jul 28 16:44:29 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: One reason why Opterons sell less... In-Reply-To: <20050728201959.49506.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050728201959.49506.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507281644.29249.jasonb@edseek.com> On Thursday 28 July 2005 16:19, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Is this NewEgg you're talking about? Or Monarch Computer? > > > But it's 3:30 and I haven't gotten my shipping confirmation > > email, yet. Meanwhile my experience ordering a server It's Monarch. They had the XFX 6600GT cheapest by far. > For parts, Monarch is going to be _slower_ than NewEgg. > Definitely do _not_ use Monarch for parts over NewEgg if > you need them quick. ;-> So I've discovered. I knew it wouldn't be fast, but I sort of assumed wrongly on my part that a full week to order and deliver an item was a feasible goal, as it has been when I have ordered from numerous other vendors, Newegg included. Sigh. > Many things drop-ship from elsewhere. True enough. From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net Thu Jul 28 18:00:59 2005 From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (Austin Denyer (Ozz)) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: One reason why Opterons sell less... In-Reply-To: <200507281531.12936.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <20050728191825.91049.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507281531.12936.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <20050728180059.4f3a4e33.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:31:12 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > > Perhaps I've just been unfortunate, but this week isn't the week I'm > interested in dealing with it. Any other week I'd probably shrug and > not care. Maybe I'm just used to ordering stuff from Newegg and > having things delivered in a few days at most. Newegg definitely > ships fast. What's more, Monarch is in Georgia. I really ought to > have a Monday night order by Friday afternoon when it's listed as > in-stock, 1-2 days, with 2nd day air. I'm sorry to hear of your woes. I have used both Monarch and Newegg, and have always had outstanding service from both. Regards, Ozz. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 28 18:07:19 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: One reason why Opterons sell less... In-Reply-To: <20050728180059.4f3a4e33.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> References: <20050728191825.91049.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507281531.12936.jasonb@edseek.com> <20050728180059.4f3a4e33.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> Message-ID: <1122588439.4486.80.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 18:00 -0400, Austin Denyer wrote: > I'm sorry to hear of your woes. > I have used both Monarch and Newegg, and have always had outstanding > service from both. Monarch is definitely going to get priority to system sales and support. Although they do component sales, they cater to volume sales, not qty. 1 component sales (server sales is a different story). NewEgg definitely caters to component sales, be it qty. 1 or qty. 50. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Jul 28 18:42:05 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: One reason why Opterons sell less... In-Reply-To: <200507281644.29249.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <20050728201959.49506.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507281644.29249.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <200507281842.05718.jasonb@edseek.com> On Thursday 28 July 2005 16:44, Jason Boxman wrote: > So I've discovered. I knew it wouldn't be fast, but I sort of assumed > wrongly on my part that a full week to order and deliver an item was a > feasible goal, as it has been when I have ordered from numerous other > vendors, Newegg included. Sigh. I spoke too soon. Just got my overnight confirmation. Yay. I'll stick to Monarch for servers in the future, though. I probably should've figured that one out on my own. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 28 19:02:23 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: One reason why Opterons sell less... In-Reply-To: <200507281842.05718.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <20050728201959.49506.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200507281644.29249.jasonb@edseek.com> <200507281842.05718.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1122591743.4486.115.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-07-28 at 18:42 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > I'll stick to Monarch for servers in the future, though. > I probably should've figured that one out on my own. For components, unless Monarch is the only one that has it or at a killer deal, I typically go NewEgg. But Monarch is the OEM, even if tier-2, that has a direct feed from AMD. Unless you buy a HP DL585 or Sun Sunfire V40z, the Tyan mainboard in a Monarch 1-3U is going to be similar in capability to an HP DL145, DL365 or Sun Sunfire V20z. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 29 08:06:38 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: multiwin and so on In-Reply-To: <200507292348.47407.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> References: <200507292348.47407.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz> Message-ID: <1122638798.4486.213.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Fri, 2005-07-29 at 23:48 +1200, Wesley Parish wrote: > I came across your Blog today and enjoyed the read on Microsoft's big blunders > re: NT and DotNET. > I've just got one question - you mention: > http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ > Further Predictions: It is my hope that Avalon will eventually make it > possible to run Windows software much "lighter" than the current Remote > Desktop Protocol (RDP) and Independent Client Architecture (ICA) invented by > Citrix. Long story short, RDP/ICA rely on MultiWin, first used by Citrix in > NT 3.51 "Daytona" and NT 4.0 Terminal Server, then standard in NT5.0+. > MultiWin virtualizes multiple GDI instances, which allows Windows programs > (which normally require the single, _physical_ GDI hardware) to run -- and > then be remotely displayed. > Is MultiWin a publically documented standard? Of course not! ;-> MultiWin is a very, very core, proprietary standard to Citrix that Microsoft first licensed for NT 4.0 and then made standard in NT5.0+ (2000+). It was first available for NT 3.51 from Citrix. Now MultiWin development _did_ come from Citrix's OS/2 before that. But I don't know how much is relevant or available for that matter. I.e., the GDI is very NT-specific. When Citrix solved the problem with NT only having 1 GDI (i.e., 1 user, because all software is tied to the GDI), that made Microsoft their #1 fan. > Is it possible to get the documentation without sacrificing one's firstborn, > etc? I think you have to be a core Citrix/MS partner to get that kind of info, and I seriously doubt Citrix would open it to a competitor of theirs. > I've been thinking aobut ReactOS - the GPLed NT-class OS - and how to get it > running remotely. And MultiWin sounds just like the thing. But if it's one > of those absurdly licensed thingees, then there's no point in thinking about > it. It's not available at all. It's a core, proprietary technology of Citrix. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Fri Jul 29 19:01:39 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] No CD-ROM power, no POST? Message-ID: <4841.192.168.0.13.1122678099.squirrel@localhost> So, I go to install my new 6600GT. No go. It boots up with corrupt graphics at the BIOS screen. So, I start unplugging connectors to see if my PSU is too weak. Well, after removing all my expansion cards and such, I discover the reason it does nothing at power no, no beep, no POST, nothing, without a video card installed, is because the CD-ROM is plugged into the motherboard, but the power connector for the CD-ROM is not plugged in. Eh? That's the number one reason I absolutely had screwing around with my boxes. Something always goofs up. Always. And it seems it always costs me money. Sigh. I'll have to try the 6600GT in my other AGP box and see if it works okay or not. Meanwhile, time to put my expansion cards back in, again. Sigh. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 29 19:12:38 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] No CD-ROM power, no POST? In-Reply-To: <4841.192.168.0.13.1122678099.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050729231239.80927.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > So, I go to install my new 6600GT. No go. > It boots up with corrupt graphics at the BIOS screen. Does it have a 4-pin Molex connector on the card end opposite of the bracket? If so, plug in a Molex connector. The AGP slot is only capable of delivering 25-50W. The AGP Pro (rare) is able to deliver 50-100W. Both the card _and_ mainboard must be AGP Pro. Since this is rare (typically only Quadros), you need the Molex. > Well, after removing all my expansion cards and such, I > discover the reason it does nothing at power no, no beep, > no POST, nothing, without a video card installed, is > because the CD-ROM is plugged into the motherboard, but > the power connector for the CD-ROM is not plugged in. > Eh? The POST will be interrupted because the ATA channel is in use, attempting to flip gates with +3.3/5V signals, but the PCB on the drive isn't being powered, so the board doesn't respond. It never gets out of a transient phase, so the system never boots. The PC BIOS and ATA logic is _really_dumb_. ATA relies on the Integrated Drive Electronics (IDE) and if it detects a drive is plugged in, but the IDE doesn't respond (like in your case, no power), many BIOS POST routines will just hang. Same issue when people used to flip their ATA connector orientation. > That's the number one reason I absolutely had screwing > around with my boxes. Something always goofs up. Always. > And it seems it always costs me money. Sigh. > I'll have to try the 6600GT in my other AGP box and see if > it works okay or not. > Meanwhile, time to put my expansion cards back in, again. Don't forget the Molex connector. *ALSO*, what is your mainboard? It could be a voltage issue. AGP 2.0 (4x) is 1.5/3.3V AGP 3.0 (8x) is 0.8/1.5V Many AGP 3.0 (8x) video cards are no longer 3.3V tolerance, and if your mainboard can't deliever 1.5V to the AGP, you're SOL. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Fri Jul 29 19:19:04 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] No CD-ROM power, no POST? In-Reply-To: <20050729231239.80927.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4841.192.168.0.13.1122678099.squirrel@localhost> <20050729231239.80927.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4849.192.168.0.13.1122679144.squirrel@localhost> Bryan J. Smith said: > Jason Boxman wrote: >> So, I go to install my new 6600GT. No go. >> It boots up with corrupt graphics at the BIOS screen. > > Does it have a 4-pin Molex connector on the card end opposite > of the bracket? If so, plug in a Molex connector. Yes. Initially I forgot to plug it in, but I doubt it damaged the card. The manual also made no mention of it, although upon seeing the connector visually I intended to plugin the molex before booting. That's what happens when you take on the phone at the same time. > The AGP slot is only capable of delivering 25-50W. > The AGP Pro (rare) is able to deliver 50-100W. > > Both the card _and_ mainboard must be AGP Pro. > Since this is rare (typically only Quadros), you need the > Molex. > >> That's the number one reason I absolutely had screwing >> around with my boxes. Something always goofs up. Always. >> And it seems it always costs me money. Sigh. >> I'll have to try the 6600GT in my other AGP box and see if >> it works okay or not. >> Meanwhile, time to put my expansion cards back in, again. > > Don't forget the Molex connector. > > *ALSO*, what is your mainboard? > It could be a voltage issue. > > AGP 2.0 (4x) is 1.5/3.3V > AGP 3.0 (8x) is 0.8/1.5V It's the ECS K7S5A. It's AGP 4x. Wouldn't surprise me if that's precisely the problem. > Many AGP 3.0 (8x) video cards are no longer 3.3V tolerance, > and if your mainboard can't deliever 1.5V to the AGP, you're > SOL. That's probably it. If it is, should I bother trying to pick up a cheap old NForce2 mainboard so I can just recycle my components and run, or would that be enough of a waste of time that I should just throw in the towel and look at the newer NForce4 solutions (and associated costs)? Thanks. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 29 19:22:04 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: No CD-ROM power, no POST? In-Reply-To: <20050729231239.80927.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050729232204.90869.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > Don't forget the Molex connector. > *ALSO*, what is your mainboard? > It could be a voltage issue. > AGP 2.0 (4x) is 1.5/3.3V > AGP 3.0 (8x) is 0.8/1.5V > Many AGP 3.0 (8x) video cards are no longer 3.3V tolerance, > and if your mainboard can't deliever 1.5V to the AGP, > you're SOL. If you give me the _exact_ make/model of your mainboard and AGP, I can verify. I'm sorry I didn't bring this up before. I should have checked if your mainboard was too old. The "keying" used to help back in the AGP 1.x (1/2x) days, because there were keys on the slot for 5V and 3.3V, just like PCI. Unfortunately, some AGP x4 mainboards started removing both keys if they supported both, even though this was only the official configuration for AGP 2.0 (4x) 1.5V. Now most AGP 2.0 (4x) cards were 3.3V tolerant, so it wasn't much of an issue. But the problem comes to a head with newer AGP 3.0 cards that use 1.5V (if not 0.8V). -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 29 19:27:50 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] No CD-ROM power, no POST? -- not sure of my facts ... In-Reply-To: <4849.192.168.0.13.1122679144.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050729232750.30144.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > It's the ECS K7S5A. It's AGP 4x. Wouldn't surprise me if > that's precisely the problem. > Many AGP 3.0 (8x) video cards are no longer 3.3V > tolerance, and if your mainboard can't deliever 1.5V to > the AGP, you're SOL. > That's probably it. > If it is, should I bother trying to pick up a cheap old > NForce2 mainboard so I can just recycle my components and > run, or would that be enough of a waste of time that I > should just throw in the towel and look at the newer > NForce4 solutions (and associated costs)? > Thanks. I might not have my facts correct: http://www.ertyu.org/~steven_nikkel/agpcompatibility.html What is your make/model of your video card? I'm wondering if it is 1.5V tolerant. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Fri Jul 29 19:39:12 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: No CD-ROM power, no POST? In-Reply-To: <20050729232204.90869.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050729232204.90869.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507291939.12485.jasonb@edseek.com> On Friday 29 July 2005 19:22, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > If you give me the _exact_ make/model of your mainboard and > AGP, I can verify. I'm sorry I didn't bring this up before. > I should have checked if your mainboard was too old. Heh, that's my responsibility as the owner. Not your fault. This is an ECS K7S5A v3.1 according to the PCB. The manual claims AGP 2.0 / AGP 4x compliance. And this might confirm the above, although I don't know which revision he reviewed: http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/action/printarticle/1354/ -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 29 19:39:14 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: No CD-ROM power, no POST? -- okay, here's the deal (0.8V v. 1.5V) In-Reply-To: <20050729232750.30144.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050729233914.49427.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > I might not have my facts correct: > http://www.ertyu.org/~steven_nikkel/agpcompatibility.html > What is your make/model of your video card? > I'm wondering if it is 1.5V tolerant. Okay, that page gives somewhat of a clue. Look at the video card (2nd table): Graphics Card Key(s) Speed(s) Voltage(s) AGP 3.0 1.5v 8x,4x 0.8v Univ 1.5v AGP 3.0 1.5v 8x,4x,2x,1x 1.5v, 0.8v In looking at various 6600GT cards, the 1.5V key is out. But there is _no_way_ to know if it is a 0.8V only card, or 0.8V with 1.5V tolerant operation. The good news is that AGP 3.0 cards that only do 0.8V aren't supposed to fry on a mainboard that only does 1.5V. But if it's a 0.8V only card, it won't POST on a AGP 2.0 (4x) mainboard which can only deliver 1.5V. Again, if you give me the make/model of the video card, I'll check if it's 0.8V only or 0.8V with 1.5V operational tolerance. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Jul 29 19:44:45 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:09 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: No CD-ROM power, no POST? In-Reply-To: <200507291939.12485.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <20050729234445.19846.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > This is an ECS K7S5A v3.1 according to the PCB. The manual > claims AGP 2.0 / AGP 4x compliance. Right, see the other link I sent you. BTW, when I said I needed the exact make/model of your mainboard and AGP, I mean the AGP video card. That's the determining factor if it works in an AGP 2.0 (x4) slot. The card must be 1.5V operational tolerant. Many AGP x8 cards aren't, they require 0.8V. There is no way to tell from it physically, as there is no 0.8V key. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Fri Jul 29 20:00:55 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: No CD-ROM power, no POST? In-Reply-To: <20050729234445.19846.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050729234445.19846.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200507292000.55769.jasonb@edseek.com> On Friday 29 July 2005 19:44, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Jason Boxman wrote: > > This is an ECS K7S5A v3.1 according to the PCB. The manual > > claims AGP 2.0 / AGP 4x compliance. > > Right, see the other link I sent you. > > BTW, when I said I needed the exact make/model of your > mainboard and AGP, I mean the AGP video card. That's the > determining factor if it works in an AGP 2.0 (x4) slot. Duh, sorry. > The card must be 1.5V operational tolerant. Many AGP x8 > cards aren't, they require 0.8V. There is no way to tell > from it physically, as there is no 0.8V key. Since it's not installed I can easily look. I was somewhat annoying when XFX's site wanted my serial number for my _installed_ card I was trying to troubleshoot. :) GF 6600GT 128MB DDR3 Dual DVi TV S/N GBH035975 7865604031 is on a sticker If I orient the card correctly, I think, then it matches the picture for the APG 1.5V graphic on the AGP compatibility URL you linked. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 30 18:53:42 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Linux Distributions: Packages v. Ports ... Message-ID: <1122764022.8949.25.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> In an effort to avoid getting involved in any future "my distro kicked your honor distro's ass" discussions, I've added a (currently "poorly edited") blog entry that goes into many details of how Linux "packages" and "ports" distros differ, especially from the standpoint of development, configuration management and corporate deployment: http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/07/linux-distributions-packages-v-ports.html I'm just going to point to it the next time a discussion comes up. I'll also tweak the verbage, sections, etc... over time. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). This is why someone who makes more than you always gets at least the same, if not a bigger, tax cut. Otherwise is impossible. From jasonb at edseek.com Sat Jul 30 19:26:29 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] nForce2 Ultra? KT600? Socket A mainboard search Message-ID: <200507301926.29308.jasonb@edseek.com> Seeing as I may need a new board, I'm looking at nForce2 Ultra and maybe KT* chipset boards on Ebay. (If I'm going to buy one new I might as well just cough up and go for an AMD 64 board, but since I am not...) Anyone have any good or bad experiences with boards based on these chipsets? Thanks. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From jasonb at edseek.com Sat Jul 30 19:32:25 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Blog content column (was: Linux Distributions: Packages v. Ports ...) In-Reply-To: <1122764022.8949.25.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1122764022.8949.25.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507301932.25699.jasonb@edseek.com> On Saturday 30 July 2005 18:53, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > In an effort to avoid getting involved in any future "my distro kicked > your honor distro's ass" discussions, I've added a (currently "poorly > edited") blog entry that goes into many details of how Linux "packages" > and "ports" distros differ, especially from the standpoint of > development, configuration management and corporate deployment: On the note of blogs and completely offtopic, I see that blogspot also has a default of using like 25% of your screen for the actual _content_. I just upgraded my own blog to WordPress 1.5.x and find many of the 'themes' I have looked at also are stuck in some 1997 era desire to let users with 14" monitors running at 640x480 see all the content. I was all for that back in 1999, but today, well, I'm looking into tweaking the CSS for my blog's style to use the _whole_ _darn_ _screen_. Sigh. [/rant] Actually reading through some of the article, though, wow can you produce content. How long did that take? On the subject of using -O3, I had read that -Os is actually sweet because it allows more of the code to remain in CPU cache. Since I just use whatever the package maintainer used, all my stuff is probably -O2. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 30 20:29:12 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Blog content column (was: Linux Distributions: Packages v. Ports ...) In-Reply-To: <200507301932.25699.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <1122764022.8949.25.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507301932.25699.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1122769752.8949.37.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 19:32 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Actually reading through some of the article, though, wow can you produce > content. How long did that take? Don't know, I think a couple of hours, no more than 3 though. I started around 1-something, finished just before 4. Word count is ~7600. At my typical 40 words output/minute for a "raw dump," that would be ~190 minutes. Sounds like I exceeded my normal rate, possibly broke 50 words/minute. If I made it a print article, I'd reorg, simply and slice down to around 3000-4000 words. > On the subject of using -O3, I had read that -Os is actually sweet because it > allows more of the code to remain in CPU cache. Since I just use whatever > the package maintainer used, all my stuff is probably -O2. Everytime I threw the -O3 on a P3 doing engineering calculations (computational fluid dynamics) back in the '90s, I got totally difference answers. Absolutely no precision. Everytime I throw the -O3 on an Athlon, I get unstable software. IMHO, it's should only be used when you wrote the software and know what affects it will have. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). This is why someone who makes more than you always gets at least the same, if not a bigger, tax cut. Otherwise is impossible. From damien at mc-kenna.com Sat Jul 30 20:41:37 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] nForce2 Ultra? KT600? Socket A mainboard search In-Reply-To: <200507301926.29308.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <200507301926.29308.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <42EC1E41.4070307@mc-kenna.com> Jason Boxman wrote: >Seeing as I may need a new board, I'm looking at nForce2 Ultra and maybe KT* >chipset boards on Ebay. (If I'm going to buy one new I might as well just >cough up and go for an AMD 64 board, but since I am not...) > > I'm extremely happy with my nForce 4 board, if it means anything. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 30 20:56:22 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: nForce2 Ultra? KT600? Socket A mainboard search In-Reply-To: <200507301926.29308.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <200507301926.29308.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1122771382.8949.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 19:26 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Seeing as I may need a new board, I'm looking at nForce2 Ultra and maybe KT* > chipset boards on Ebay. (If I'm going to buy one new I might as well just > cough up and go for an AMD 64 board, but since I am not...) > Anyone have any good or bad experiences with boards based on these chipsets? Man, I feel really bad. I had success with my NV40 PNY GeForce 6800GT AGP x8 in two different AGP 2.0 (x4) mainboards. I guess PNY made those original AGP cards with 1.5V support. So if I had to guess, anything NV43/45 that uses an AGP-PCIe bridge doesn't support 1.5V well then. Or at least board manufacturers don't want to deal with it. Be careful when moving mainboards -- with different chipsets -- when you're running XP on the system due to registry-specific settings. You might be able to load the new mainboard's drivers before upgrading, but probably not. Here's an Foxconn 748K7AA with an SiS748 (964L south) that has AGP x8 for $37 at NewEgg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186061 I'll verify it does 0.8V AGP. The kicker is only DDR slots, so I hope you have DDR memory. Dude, I'm sorry -- I should have checked this a bit more. -- Bryan P.S. All this is going into my hardware FAQs, which I'm going to break up piecemeal (e.g., this will go in the "Peripheral Interconnect" FAQ). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). This is why someone who makes more than you always gets at least the same, if not a bigger, tax cut. Otherwise is impossible. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 30 21:03:54 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: nForce2 Ultra? KT600? Socket A mainboard search -- $37 SiS748+964L In-Reply-To: <1122771382.8949.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <200507301926.29308.jasonb@edseek.com> <1122771382.8949.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1122771834.8949.63.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 19:56 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Here's an Foxconn 748K7AA with an SiS748 (964L south) that has AGP x8 > for $37 at NewEgg: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186061 > I'll verify it does 0.8V AGP. The kicker is only DDR slots, so I hope > you have DDR memory. Not much from the manual, but it says AGP x8**: http://www.foxconnchannel.com/pdf/748K7AA-easy_guide-eng-11-10-04.pdf [ ** I assume AGP 3.0? Assume = famous last words, sigh ... ] BTW, on your existing ECS K7S5A, it doesn't have an AGP voltage dumper anywhere does it? Also, have you tried putting back in the video card and setting very, very conservative AGP settings? Lastly, have you tried resetting the BIOS jumper? (i.e., set to 'clear' -- press power button, it won't turn on -- then set it back to 'normal') -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). This is why someone who makes more than you always gets at least the same, if not a bigger, tax cut. Otherwise is impossible. From jasonb at edseek.com Sat Jul 30 21:30:18 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: nForce2 Ultra? KT600? Socket A mainboard search -- $37 SiS748+964L In-Reply-To: <1122771834.8949.63.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <200507301926.29308.jasonb@edseek.com> <1122771382.8949.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1122771834.8949.63.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507302130.18679.jasonb@edseek.com> On Saturday 30 July 2005 21:03, you wrote: > BTW, on your existing ECS K7S5A, it doesn't have an AGP voltage dumper > anywhere does it? I am fairly certain it doesn't provide any information about the AGP slot. I'll have to check next I reboot. > Also, have you tried putting back in the video card and setting very, > very conservative AGP settings? The only option I had to play with was "AGP 4x Support: Enable/Disable" so I tried disabling it and rebooting. No effect. > Lastly, have you tried resetting the BIOS jumper? (i.e., set to 'clear' > -- press power button, it won't turn on -- then set it back to 'normal') I thought about that when my system wasn't booting after leaving the CD-ROM ATA cable in, but no molex power. Fortunately the solution was just to unplug both cables. ;) Anyway, regarding my 6800GT, I tried it in a friend's board, an Asus A7n8x basic/non-delux PCB v1.06, which claims AGP 8x/AGP 3.0 compatibility right on the product page. I had identical screen corruption at boot time. From what I can see briefly at boot time, though, this is an NV43 chipset. It's possible even his board isn't able to handle it. In his BIOS, for the Asus, you can change the AGP slot voltage and he only had options for 1.5V, 1.6V, and 1.7V. There were no other options. If it did 0.8V I'd suspect it would at least be listed. So it might still not be the card. Not sure. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 30 21:51:50 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: nForce2 Ultra? KT600? Socket A mainboard search -- $37 SiS748+964L In-Reply-To: <200507302130.18679.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <200507301926.29308.jasonb@edseek.com> <1122771382.8949.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1122771834.8949.63.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507302130.18679.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1122774710.8949.68.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-30 at 21:30 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Anyway, regarding my 6800GT, I tried it in a friend's board, an Asus A7n8x > basic/non-delux PCB v1.06, which claims AGP 8x/AGP 3.0 compatibility right on > the product page. I had identical screen corruption at boot time. > From what I can see briefly at boot time, though, this is an NV43 chipset. > It's possible even his board isn't able to handle it. In his BIOS, for the > Asus, you can change the AGP slot voltage and he only had options for 1.5V, > 1.6V, and 1.7V. There were no other options. If it did 0.8V I'd suspect it > would at least be listed. > So it might still not be the card. Not sure. Hmmm, weird. He had an AGP 8x slot and it didn't work. I guess they don't have to support 0.8V or something, but I though AGP 3.0 did (maybe not all AGP 8x slots are AGP 3.0 compliant?). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). This is why someone who makes more than you always gets at least the same, if not a bigger, tax cut. Otherwise is impossible. From jasonb at edseek.com Sun Jul 31 00:30:25 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] XFX DoA Issues Message-ID: <200507310030.25277.jasonb@edseek.com> fyi, I am finding a lot of threads about dead XFX cards now that I'm in a situation where I need to RMA my card. It seems XFX is known to be one of the worst when it comes to DoA problems and other failures. I've read a few accounts of people going through multiple RMAs before receiving a working card. Out of the two dozen different companies selling knock off NVidias, I guess I picked the worst. ;) -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Sun Jul 31 10:51:04 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] XFX DoA Issues Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858EEE@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> I've seen similar comments too. Its also concerning because they're one of the few companies out there that do affordable hardware driven RAID (RAID-3). -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 31 15:07:47 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] XFX DoA Issues In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858EEE@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858EEE@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1122836867.8949.211.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 10:51 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > I've seen similar comments too. Its also concerning because they're one > of the few companies out there that do affordable hardware driven RAID > (RAID-3). Yes, I know. I have their NetCell 5000-based, 5-channel RAID-XL (RAID-3 like) card. I haven't gotten it to work perfectly in Linux yet, but I've been experimenting. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). This is why someone who makes more than you always gets at least the same, if not a bigger, tax cut. Otherwise is impossible. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Sun Jul 31 15:27:42 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: XFX RAID-XL (was "RE: [Pc_Support] XFX DoA Issues") Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858EEF@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > I have their NetCell 5000-based, 5-channel RAID-XL (RAID-3 like) card. > I haven't gotten it to work perfectly in Linux yet, but I've been > experimenting. How is that going? That's the card I was looking at fondly (for either work or home, not sure yet). Its promoted as being pretty much plug 'n play that it takes care of the RAIDing at the BIOS level so that the OS only sees the "virtual" drive you create in the RAID, so is that not the case? -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 31 18:26:12 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: XFX RAID-XL (was "RE: [Pc_Support] XFX DoA Issues") In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858EEF@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858EEF@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1122848773.8949.245.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 15:27 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > How is that going? Haven't had time to mess with it since February. Supposedly the kernel supports it better now. > That's the card I was looking at fondly (for either > work or home, not sure yet). Its promoted as being pretty much plug 'n > play that it takes care of the RAIDing at the BIOS level so that the OS > only sees the "virtual" drive you create in the RAID, so is that not the > case? It does _not_ use the BIOS. NT and Linux kernels can_not_ use the 16- bit (Real86) Int13h BIOS services once their 32-bit/64-bit (Protected386/PAE52 mode) kernels load. Now I assume you mean the on-board ASIC handles the RAID, correct? But even then, an on-board ASIC (or microcontroller) requires a driver. So how does the NetCell approach differ? Instead of appearing as a block device with its own driver via the SCSI subsystem of NT or Linux, like most RAID cards, it actually makes itself appear as an ATA channel with a single disk. Let me say that again, for all intents and purposes, the NetCell appears as a single ATA channel with some large IDE device attached. This is many disadvantages, and clearly regulates the approach to more desktop environments. But in that role, the NetCell does excel extremely well. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). This is why someone who makes more than you always gets at least the same, if not a bigger, tax cut. Otherwise is impossible. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Jul 31 18:48:27 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: XFX RAID-XL (was "RE: [Pc_Support] XFX DoA Issues") In-Reply-To: <1122848773.8949.245.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858EEF@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1122848773.8949.245.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1122850107.8949.261.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-07-31 at 17:26 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Haven't had time to mess with it since February. Supposedly the kernel > supports it better now. Just checked, a patch went into the stock 2.6.13-rc3 kernel: http://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/akpm/patches/2.6/2.6.13-rc3/2.6.13-rc3-mm2/announce.txt http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0507.2/0039.html Patching the kernel for the SyncRAID SR3000/5000 is not easy because it modifies the _core_ ATA logic. It's not like other RAID cards that have their own drivers (via the generic SCSI interface). But the good news is that once the drivers _are_ in the stock ATA code, they will be perpetual. That's why I bought my SR5000, because once Linux support is there, I won't have to worry about the ATA driver being "outdated." > It does _not_ use the BIOS. NT and Linux kernels can_not_ use the 16- > bit (Real86) Int13h BIOS services once their 32-bit/64-bit > (Protected386/PAE52 mode) kernels load. I didn't mean to be "abrasive" there, but understand there is a huge difference between 16-bit (Real86) Int13h BIOS disk services and a 32- bit/64-bit (Protecte386-PAE36/PAE52) kernel driver. "FRAID" cards rely 100% on the driver for RAID once a 32-bit/64-bit OS boots, while the OS directly addresses the IDE(s) on each ATA channel -- aka "host-based/software RAID". True, "Intelligent" RAID cards only need the 32-bit/64-bit OS driver to talk to its intelligence, and typically do so through the queuing SCSI subsystem of the OS. The NetCell SyncRAID SR3000/5000 uses a middle ground. It uses an on- board intelligence and even 128MB of DRAM, but it appears as a single ATA channel with a IDE device. That way it can work with general ATA drivers in any kernel (to a point). > This is many disadvantages, and clearly regulates the approach to more > desktop environments. But in that role, the NetCell does excel > extremely well. RAID-3 is striping with dedicated parity where there is no blocking. All disks are written to simultaneously, and then the parity calculated and committed to its dedicated disk. During reads, the disks are read from directly. This is similar in RAID-4 -- stripes plus dedicated parity -- except RAID-4 uses blocking for its stripes. Typical block size is 512 bytes * 65,536 sectors = 32KiB. You'll note that 65,536 sectors is typical 256 (0-255) heads * 64 (0-63) sectors/cylinder disk geometry = 16,384 sectors, which 65,536 is a multiple of (and an exact multiple if the media uses 2,048 byte sectors, like optical does). RAID-5 is blocked stripes but with striped parity. RAID-3 is ideal for single user applications where maximum, sequential throughput is attainable. RAID-4 is better for multiuser applications where many, independent operations could be going on -- especially large writes. RAID-5 is better when lots of random access occurs -- especially smaller writes. Since NetCell RAID-XL takes RAID-3 and applies it to a specific number of disks, 3 for 32-bit (2 x 16-bit ATA + 1 parity) and 5 for 64-bit (4 x 16-bit ATA + 1 parity), this is clearly a desktop-solution. But in being so, offering a virtual ATA interface is not much of a disadvantage -- if not an advantage in many applications because of how most OS ATA drivers work. For servers, you want to avoid RAID-3 and use blocking stripes, and most OS SCSI drivers will be most accommodating for such queued operations. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). This is why someone who makes more than you always gets at least the same, if not a bigger, tax cut. Otherwise is impossible.