From brianashelist at yahoo.com Fri Jul 1 11:06:18 2005 From: brianashelist at yahoo.com (Brian Ashe) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <42BF0FB8.3020508@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <20050701150618.34249.qmail@web20022.mail.yahoo.com> VLC is the first thing that comes to mind--the server runs on anything, the player runs on anything, and handles just about every form of video known to man. http://www.videolan.org However, I've never seen the server portion work. Tried to get it going a couple times but couldn't. Darwin Streaming Server, aka QuickTime Streaming Server, is another possibility. Not sure what it would take to get it working with a plain-vanilla capture card--I've only used it with FireWire input devices and static files. However, with my TiVo feeding into a DV bridge, it works fine. http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/streaming/ http://www.apple.com/quicktime/streamingserver/ It can create MPEG-4 streams so it should work with the player and platform of your choice. It is something that Apple has open-sourced (mmm, love verbing nouns) and runs on Win, Mac, and Lin. If closed-source is OK with you, I've played with and been very happy with SnapStream/BeyondTV. http://www.snapstream.com/download/ $70 (hmm, used to be $30, IIRC) and the only reason I didn't buy it was because I have DirecTV, so the tuner in my capture card was made pretty worthless when I dropped cable. It's very easy to use, though. Oh yeah, how could I forget Myth? http://www.mythtv.org Designed from the ground up to have a backend box that captures (and optionally transcodes) and stream to 'frontend' boxes. It's a big, all-encompassing, do-it-all project, so it might take a while to get your head around. If I can find some rabbit ears and a 300-to-75-ohm converter, I might try to put one together at tomorrow's 'fest. See also KnoppoMyth: http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html http://www.eff.org/broadcastflag/ --- Damien McKenna wrote: > Anyone have suggestions for a program to stream > video from one computer > to another? I'd like to be able to stream video > from our desktop in a > back room to a laptop in the living room (via > 100mbit ethernet). Any > suggestions? Thanks. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 1 11:17:59 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours of messing I got VLC to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in terms of user friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the files via SMB or something, that'll be much less hassle for me. Thanks anyway. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 1 11:33:26 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? Message-ID: <17990118.1120232006657.JavaMail.root@wamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours of messing I got VLC > to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in terms of user > friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the files via SMB or > something, that'll be much less hassle for me. > Thanks anyway. The problem with SMB is that it is a TCP/IP process, not UDP/IP. That could be a exponentially compounding performance issue when it comes to wide-spread distribution. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Jul 1 11:44:25 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A57@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > The problem with SMB is that it is a TCP/IP process, not UDP/IP. > That could be a exponentially compounding performance issue > when it comes to wide-spread distribution. For me streaming movies from our desktop in the back room to a laptop in the living room, I'm not that concerned about it :) -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Fri Jul 1 12:02:17 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? Message-ID: <18658437.1120233737810.JavaMail.root@wamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > For me streaming movies from our desktop in the back room to a laptop in > the living room, I'm not that concerned about it :) For 1-2 systems over LAN speed, no, it shouldn't matter too much. But be sure to use a quality CardBus card or the NIC built-in on a miniPCI. And if you're running Linux, consider NFS instead of SMB. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From jasonb at edseek.com Fri Jul 1 14:13:03 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <18658437.1120233737810.JavaMail.root@wamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <18658437.1120233737810.JavaMail.root@wamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507011413.03791.jasonb@edseek.com> On Friday 01 July 2005 12:02, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > From: Damien McKenna > > > For me streaming movies from our desktop in the back room to a laptop in > > the living room, I'm not that concerned about it :) > > For 1-2 systems over LAN speed, no, it shouldn't matter too much. > But be sure to use a quality CardBus card or the NIC built-in on a miniPCI. > And if you're running Linux, consider NFS instead of SMB. Anyone ever mess with deploying OpenAFS? From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 2 02:06:58 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Chenming 118 Series 11"x9"x14" MicroATX "box" Message-ID: <1120284418.4594.43.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Okay, I got tired of my cheap MicroATX case as more crappy plastic broke off. I was also looking to run 2 hard drives at once and that wasn't going to happen with this sucker. For more on that case, it's high-end MicroATX PS and some of the other MicroATX cases I had looked at, see these prior posts: http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-April/000287.html http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-April/000288.html http://lists.leap-cf.org/pipermail/pc_support/2005-April/000289.html As I had mentioned, I had looked at the Antec Aira, but it uses a proprietary/non-standard power supply. I had hoped that someone had more of a "boxed small form-factor" case with a MicroATX PS, but I never found one. But now I think I've found a good alternative. The Chenming 118 Series ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125485 There are several resellers selling all sorts of "mod" kits for this. Frankly, I went with the "stock black aluminum" version with the standard 300W PS, and I'm glad I did. - Form-factor: 11" x 9" x 14" It's not a small box at all, and if you really want small, you'll want to look at one of the proprietary/non-standard form-factors/"barebones" out there. I wouldn't even bother with the Antec Aira, I'd go for this instead, which is a bit bigger, but well worth it. Why? Well, despite it's size, it takes a _full_ ATX power supply -- not MicroATX, _full_ ATX. That's a really nice option if you need a powerful CPU -- maybe you're getting the latest Athlon64 x2 and GeForce 6800 Ultra or 7800GTX, each which will eat up 100W. Now you don't have to balance power against power, you can have both (as long as your mainboard is still MicroATX). And it's not so cramped, yet still smaller. - Weight: Sub-10lbs. And before you dismiss it as "too heavy," it's aluminum and sub-10lbs., even a tad lighter than the "smaller" 12" x 5.5" x 12" steel case I had before. Fully loaded, it's still quite portable -- far more so than any ATX case I've had, and no worse than most MicroATX. - Sturdiness: Better than expected (except for handle) Sure, aluminum is lighter than steel and bends. If you twist around the 3-plane (side-top-side) cover, that's not good. But despite the weight, it still has _2_ solid "beams" on each side of the box, front to back. One is on its own (on the right facing the front), the other underneath the mid-shelf (on the left facing the front). The box could _almost_ take my weight sitting on it when covered (although the top would still "dent in"). The handle seemed like a skimp though. It's plastic. While hard, I wouldn't "jerk" or "yank" it when it's fully loaded. But at least it _is_ set in the frame well. - Space/Expansion/Drives: Very well done, but not too, too cramped The box is really "split" into an "upper" and a "lower" half, a good ~2.5U (~4.25-4.50") for each section. The bottom is the MicroATX mainboard, 4 expansion slots on the left (facing it from front), CPU on the right. It easily took the stock AMD Cooler Master fansink, and could have probably taken the extra 0.5" tall aftermarket one I was going to use (but decided not to bother pulling the other one off which seems to be doing well. The top is the PS (back-left facing it from the front), drives (front- center exposed) and 120mm fan area (back-right, facing it from the front). The drive options are most excellent for the form-factor: exposed: 2 x 5.25", 1 x 3.5" hidden: 2 x 3.5" (front-right, facing it from the front). It's clear that they figured they might as well get in a full ATX PS and 2nd 5.25" bay instead of cutting another 1" off the height -- probably a good idea as an 8" wouldn't make any difference versus 9". The 2 x 3.5" drives are hidden on the right, although they could have easily done another 2 on the left too. I'm sure they didn't, to give you more room to move cabling on the left, typically where most of the mainboard connectors are anyway -- from the Power/HD/Reset to ATA, USB, etc... BTW, the depth is even good enough so you can fit a removable drive bay in one of the 5.25" bays (at least with the stock PS). In fact, that's what I did myself, so I can thrown in an old PATA as necessary for training/multiple configurations/etc... - Cooling Now here's the best part, not only do you have the 80mm on the P.S. but a nice 120mm on the back-right (facing it from the front) that just draws out the hot air from the CPU, as well as the internal 2 x 3.5" HD that are in the front-right. I had 2 high capacity (>>200GB), 7200rpm SATA hard drives stacked up against each other on their sides and it _never_ exceeded 30 degrees C at the drives. This thing is 20 degrees C _lower_ ambient/CPU/HDs/video-card than the other, crappy one (with 3 x 40mm plus a 92mm radial too!). The 120x120x25mm fan is not too loud, but it pushes enough air to be audible more than some might like. A 120x120x38mm fan as a slower RPM might be better and slightly quieter, but it's a perfect balance. But to be fair, I didn't get "adequate" ventilation on the other case _until_ I put in a 92mm radial slot fan, and the dual-BB 40mm case fans weren't exactly "quiet" either. It should also be noted that in this "desktop box," the expansion cards are "straight upward" so heat rises and doesn't "trapped under" either itself, or (in the case of a "flipped ATX"), the PCB of the card above it. The PS is directly above the card area, so a PS with an intake would really help. The stock one isn't, just the outtake, but it still seems to cool well enough. - Power Supply: 24+4-pin ATX2.0+P4, only 300W, but split +12V Yes, you heard correctly, that is a _split_ +12V. Only 300W, but it is actually capable of quite a bit more. 145W max on the 3.3+5V (17A+25A, respectively), 180W on the split-12V (10A+15A, respectively). Only 1 SATA power connector, although it _does_ have the 3.3V line as well as 5 +12V that a Molex does. My Foxconn nForce4 standard MicroATX mainboard took the 24+4-pin ATX2.0 +P4, and then I used each of the Molex cables to feed in the 6-pin on the video card. Seems to be quite stable at UT running for 30 minutes intensely. I have a "Winchester" sub-40W Athlon 64 3200+ (3000+ and 3500+ "Winchesters" are also available), so the P.S. could handle it and the 100W guzzling GeForce 6800GT. If you go with an Athlon 64 3700+, FX or one of the new x2 that require 60-110W, you'll probably want another P.S. But that's where this case is great! It can take a _standard_, _full_ ATX! - Cables, Front Panel, etc... --- very nicely done ... One thing I really get sick of is the "spliced cables" of audio, FireWire and USB connectors. There's pretty much 1 "agreed upon" standard that has stuck now, and the Chenming just bundles those connectors for it -- at least for MicroATX (as well as the mainboard standoffs, as MicroATX is always 9.6" x 9.6" and fixed mounts). It worked out great for my Foxconn nForce4 MicroATX mainboard, taking me 30 seconds to plug in the audio, USB and FireWire, instead of 15 _minutes_ like on the prior one. The power, speaker, LED, HD and reset were still separate, but easy to hook up right in the left-front of the mainboard (and nothing blocking me above -- that's fine, I don't need 2 more HDs blocking the way). There are also 2 temperature displays -- one for CPU, another for HD. They are thin thermaresistor types you stick in-between the CPU fans and between hard drives (or tape to the top). I found the HD to be very accurate if you place right above the spindle. I never exceed 30 degrees C on either drive. The CPU was a bit more difficult, as it was hard to get in-between the very narrow spaces between fins, and I'm closer to the fan above the sink, that the bottom of the sink (reading probably 8-10 degrees C below what the mainboard thermaresistor will say). - Negatives: Open "box" means more cables to tie off ... Any negatives? Maybe just the "box" design means you have to tie your cabling better. Especially with your drives and cables being "above" the CPU fan. When I first powered on the system, my CPU went over 50 degrees C after 5 minutes of UT2004. I quickly discovered it was because the power cable of the 120mm fan was "hanging down into" the CPU fan and it wasn't spinning. Still, if the CPU was only just over 50 degrees C (in the mainboard thermaresistor monitoring), that means it _is_ pulling enough heat off of just the sink without the fan running. But since taking it off, I'm well below 40 degree C (mainboard thermaresistor) after 30 minutes of UT2004, and 25-26 degrees C mid-sink on the LCD on front when the fan is running and I'm just typing stuff like this e-mail. - Bottom Line Given the portability, cooling and design tri-fecta, this is the only case I'm going to use for MicroATX, and I'm going to try to stick with MicroATX when I can. I mean, "shared PCI" is really a PITA anyway, and most things come on-board, leaving a need to only 1-2 PCI slots for other stuff anyway. If I need mega-I/O, I'm going to go PCI-X or 4+ PCIe slots (possibly nVidia Pro and dual-processor anyway) so I'll save that for Extended ATX / SSI EEB form-factors. So I'm really not seeming much of a need for a "full ATX" case ever again, especially when I can use a "full ATX PS" with a MicroATX mainboard. So much so that I think I'm going to convert my wife's current Athlon XP 2600+, GeForce 6800GT AGP on a Socket-462 KT266 chipset ATX mainboard in a big Antec SX1000 series ATX case to one of these cases with a Socket-462 MicroATX mainboard. Especially when Socket-462 MicroATX mainboards are so cheap, and I can probably convert for $100 (and still use her 400W if this 300W won't cut it). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From whittake at sbaflorida.com Sat Jul 2 02:26:03 2005 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <42C6337B.1050001@sbaflorida.com> I noted that some place along this thread someone mentioned Firewire. My AMD 64 mobo has a firewire outlet on the back panel. I recently purchased a Sony VCR/DVD Recorder and Player that seems to be state-of-the-art, at least my sota . I am sick and tired of the rather mundane Brighthouse TV offerings so I am hoping to dowload some good movies, etc on DVDs. I assume that I can capture the Video streaming you all are talking about on DVD, off of Firewire? What Firewire components do I need in order to do this? I am in the midst of ordering a Plumax 350C2-ETB which is an enclosure that handles 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 inch drives but this is directed at the computer side of my home domain. Are there any suggestions in regards to the above requirements and/or any additional Firewire devices that will make my life more enjoyable?????' Homer Whittaker Damien McKenna wrote: >I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours of messing I got VLC >to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in terms of user >friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the files via SMB or >something, that'll be much less hassle for me. > >Thanks anyway. > > > From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Sat Jul 2 12:52:40 2005 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Wise Linux User) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <42C6337B.1050001@sbaflorida.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <42C6337B.1050001@sbaflorida.com> Message-ID: <200507021252.41136.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> On Saturday 02 July 2005 02:26 am, Homer Whittaker wrote: > I noted that some place along this thread someone mentioned Firewire. My > AMD 64 mobo has a firewire outlet on the back panel. > > I recently purchased a Sony VCR/DVD Recorder and Player that seems to be > state-of-the-art, at least my sota . I am sick and tired of the rather > mundane Brighthouse TV offerings so I am hoping to dowload some good > movies, etc on DVDs. > > I assume that I can capture the Video streaming you all are talking > about on DVD, off of Firewire? > What Firewire components do I need in order to do this? I am in the > midst of ordering a Plumax 350C2-ETB which is an enclosure that handles > 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 inch drives but this is directed at the computer side of > my home domain. > > Are there any suggestions in regards to the above requirements and/or > any additional Firewire devices that will make my life more enjoyable?????' > > Homer Whittaker > > Damien McKenna wrote: > >I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours of messing I got VLC > >to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in terms of user > >friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the files via SMB or > >something, that'll be much less hassle for me. > > > >Thanks anyway. > > _______________________________________________ > Pc_support mailing list > Pc_support@matrixlist.com > http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support demotv is a project to send TV/video over RSS. Not intended to be 'streaming video', intended to be Live Feed of any TV or Video. Python based. on the CVS. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/demotv/tv/platform/linux/ mailing list: http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=136141 Although Sourceforge.net reports no software files, that is because, Trove has none, being that Demotv 0.1111 release is only on CVS. The project is only 11.73% forward in it's projected build! But, it is reported on the mailing list to be working. Like Tivo, and Freevo, it is being 'built' in Linux, but, will run cross platform. -- Check these out: http://knopper.net/knoppix http://livecdlist.com http://distrowatch.com http://yolinux.com http://safeharbordome.com From brianashelist at yahoo.com Sat Jul 2 14:57:26 2005 From: brianashelist at yahoo.com (Brian Ashe) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678A54@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> Ah. I had it in my head you wanted to do this with "live" broadcasts somehow. Yeah, if you're just talking about playing a directory full of MPEGs or AVIs or whatever, the best thing to do is just connect to a file server through the protocol of your choice and play them with the player of your choice. Plain-vanilla 10/100 is fast enough to play just about anything. I have some ripped DVDs (not compressed, just copied the VIDEO_TS folder) on one machine that I can play on another, so that's about as large of a file as you'll ever run into. Just do the math--if a 2 hour movie is stored on an 8 GB DVD, all you need to do is move 4 GB per hour, or 1 GB in 15 minutes. I've never had any trouble achieving that speed over any type of 10/100--SMB, AFP, whatever. [later] OK, just did a little test. I copied a 600MB .tgz via SCP from a Mac laptop to a file server and it took about 4 minutes, so that's 1 GB in about 7 minutes--twice as fast as you'll ever need, unless you start getting into high-def. --- Damien McKenna wrote: > I finally gave up on the idea, after several hours > of messing I got VLC > to transmit two frames then stop - its a pig in > terms of user > friendliness. I'll just see if I can share the > files via SMB or > something, that'll be much less hassle for me. ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 2 15:37:31 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1120333051.4570.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-02 at 11:57 -0700, Brian Ashe wrote: > I copied a 600MB .tgz via SCP from a Mac > laptop to a file server and it took about 4 minutes, > so that's 1 GB in about 7 minutes--twice as fast as > you'll ever need, unless you start getting into > high-def. The problem isn't bandwidth. It's when you just barely don't meet it just once during playback. Then you get a cascade effect that kills it. Which is why non-session streaming protocol is preferred. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Sat Jul 2 15:46:19 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <1120333051.4570.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> <1120333051.4570.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507021546.19398.jasonb@edseek.com> On Saturday 02 July 2005 15:37, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The problem isn't bandwidth. > It's when you just barely don't meet it just once during playback. > Then you get a cascade effect that kills it. > Which is why non-session streaming protocol is preferred. Buffering would help some? -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Jul 2 15:52:05 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Video streaming? In-Reply-To: <200507021546.19398.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <20050702185726.48178.qmail@web20021.mail.yahoo.com> <1120333051.4570.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507021546.19398.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1120333925.4570.11.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-02 at 15:46 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Buffering would help some? Very much so. Make your buffer large enough to withhold any stall. If you stall, it's all up to the protocol. TCP/IP will kill every chance of recovery unless you really have a major bandwidth differential. UDP/IP helps on the overhead, but can also cause just as many issues (especially if your block size is much bigger than your frame size). You typically want to use either an ICMP-like, or a higher-level UDP/IP that doesn't have any error checking or response (e.g., even NFS has XDR, which does exactly that). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From whittake at sbaflorida.com Sat Jul 2 20:33:19 2005 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: AMD 64 DVD / Debian or Suse -- GSA-4613 = $50 In-Reply-To: <1119823648.5863.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678911@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1119645004.6276.23.camel@suse.something.com> <42BCAD98.50006@mc-kenna.com> <1119823648.5863.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42C7324F.8050700@sbaflorida.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >On Fri, 2005-06-24 at 21:04 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > > >>I'm talking about the media and technology as a whole. If you have to >>pay extra for them over a non-DL drive >> >> > >You don't. The LG Electronics GSA-4163 is $50 today. >For that, you get: > >Write-Once: >- CD-R 40x >- DVD-R 8x >- DVD+R 16x (CAV) >- DVD+R-DL 4x (CAV) > >Rewrite: >- CD-RW 16x (CLV) >- DVD-RAM 5x (CLV) >- DVD-RW 6x (CLV) >- CD-RW 24x (CAV) >- DVD+RW 8x (CAV) > > > >>*and* the media is substantially more expensive (you can get 100 >>DVD-R discs for $50 = $0.50 each vs $3 for DL) then it doesn't make >>it worth it. >> >> > >Then just buy the drive now. > > > >>Then again, I didn't realize they'd gotten to 8x on DL yet. >> >> >Hmmm, I wasn't aware either. >Must be only in brand new drives. > > > > I just purchased a Toshiba SD-R5372 16X DVD for 39.xx from mwave. Is this 16x the same measurement as the 8X you are talking about? Homer Whittaker * 5X DVD+R DL Write * 16X DVD+R Write * 6X DVD-RW Write * * 8X DVD+RW Write* * 16X DVD-R Write Capable* * 16X DVD-ROM Read * 12X DVD+/-R Read * 8X DVD+R DL Read * 6X DVD+/-RW Read * 2X DVD-RAM Read * 48X CD-R Write * 10X CD-RW Write HS * 24X CD-RW Write US * 48X CD-ROM/R Read * 24X CD-RW Read * Horizontal or Vertical Mount * External Dimensions (W x H x D): o 146mm x 41.5mm x 189.5mm * MTBF 100,000 hours * Weight: 1.0 kg * Click for Warranty Information * Click for SD-R5372 Kit Information * Free firmware upgrade available that boost DVD-R write speed from 12X to 16X, DVD+RW write speed from 4X to 8X and DVD-RW write speed from 4X to 6X. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 4 12:14:03 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Go Software may bring back lawsuit against Microsoft ... Message-ID: <1120493643.4569.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> I had followed this a long time ago when Go first started selling people on the idea of pen computing. But from what I understood, it wasn't just that Microsoft killed their market, but they stole ideas for Windows CE, even though they were under a NDA not to until they had a license (which they never did). http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/07/04/ms_go_anti-trust_lawsuit/ -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 4 13:52:30 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Chenming 118 Series 11"x9"x14" MicroATX "box" -- Aspire X-QPack ... In-Reply-To: <1120284418.4594.43.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120284418.4594.43.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1120499550.4569.40.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sat, 2005-07-02 at 01:06 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The Chenming 118 Series ... > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125485 > There are several resellers selling all sorts of "mod" kits for this. > Frankly, I went with the "stock black aluminum" version with the > standard 300W PS, and I'm glad I did. As I mentioned, several resellers are selling all sorts of "mod" kits for this. One of them is the Aspire X-QPack: http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2464 I had seen it prior and decided to go with the stock Chenming 118. Why? Several things, one being the EMI/cover issues and other being the power supply. I could care less about the Windows, and it will only hurt the overall case stability, EMI protection and EMF generation. The power supply is even more interesting. It's so-called 420W is an ATX 1.0 with a 20-pin connector + 4-pin P4, while the Chenming is a 300W, ATX 2.0 with a 24-pint connector (convertible to 20-pin) + 4-pin P4. The ratings are even more of a shock. Both the Chenming ATX2.0-300W and the Aspire ATX1.0-420W are rated for 25A on the +5V. The Aspire edges out the Chenming on +3.3V with 20A to 17A, but the +12V is only a _single_ 20A +12V line for the Aspire, while the Chenming has a split +15A and +10V on its two +12V lines, the nice, added, full ATX 2.0 standards-compliant bonus of an _true_ ATX 2.0 power supply. This is why I went with the Chenming, and why it's so-called "measly 300W" handles my GeForce 6800GT just fine alongside the CPU and 3 drives in it. I definitely would _not_ buy the Aspire for the P.S. (let alone for an ATX 2.0 mainboard, even one that is ATX 1.0 "tolerant"), and buy another ATX 2.0 compliant power supply with dual (or even triple) +12V if I really needed it. On the newer PCI-Express MicroATX mainboards, the video card can suck up to 75+W from the mainboard itself (better than all except the top-of- the-line AGP Pro 50-75W). So having an ATX 2.0 mainboard and power supply is the most stable setup IMHO, which is why I went with my Foxconn mainboard and, later, the Chenming 118. But if you still like the look of the Aspire, especially with an older ATX 1.0 MicroATX mainboard, go for it. But if you go with a new, PCIe solution, you'll probably want to replace the P.S. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Jul 4 20:42:21 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Little reason to buy less than a GeForce 6000 series ... Message-ID: <1120524141.4770.7.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> I have noticed the GeForce 6200 128MB cards for AGP are now under $75 mail-order, and even CompUSA had one for $129 - $30 mail-in this past weekend (at least in St. Louis). As such, there's virtually no reason to settle for a really poor GeForce FX5200, 5500 or 5700LE for similar prices, even if some of the models have 256MB (not worth it at all). There is no "TurboCache" AGP model, so any 128MB card will be a true 128MB card. Just wanted to point this out, in case people are still looking at the older FX series of cards. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 5 12:26:31 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Is anyone using OOo v2 builds in production settings? I'm in charge of creating the new OS build for our new workstations at work and I'm looking to standardize on many OSS tools, mainly Firefox and OOo. Because OOo v2 isn't finished yet I'm a little leery of using it, but I'd sure like to use something other than the Office 97 they currently use. I'm tempted to stick with O97 for now and wait, but going with OOo v2 from the start would be better again. Also, has anyone tried forcing OOo v2 to MS file formats by default? Is it even possible? Any comments or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 12:38:40 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? Message-ID: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > Is anyone using OOo v2 builds in production settings? I've actually been using it since early May. I've been vastly impressed with the capabilities in even the "beta." And, BTW, I'm running on Linux/x86_64 with *0* issues. > I'm in charge of creating the new OS build for our new workstations > at work and I'm looking to standardize on many OSS tools, mainly > Firefox and OOo. Because OOo v2 isn't finished yet I'm a little leery > of using it, but I'd sure like to use something other than the Office 97 > they currently use. Well, I can't vouche for OOo v2 on Windows, but I have to assume it actually gets more attention than Linux, and the Linux version is most excellent at this point (but assumptions are not always the way to go, I have to admit that). > I'm tempted to stick with O97 for now and wait, but going with OOo > v2 from the start would be better again. Why not install both? At this point, you're right, there is little use to put OOo 1.1.x on the systems. So go ahead and install OOo 1.9.x. But also put MS Word 97 on the systems "just in case" there is an issue with reading/writing a file. > Also, has anyone tried forcing OOo v2 to MS file formats by default? I would recommend _heavily_against_ doing this. There is really _no_ _point_ in running OOo if you're going to do this. The problem with MS Office isn't the price, it's the document longevity. So what point is there in running OOo if you're just going to store the documents in a Hostageware format that may not be well supported in the future? You want all new document generation to be in a Freedomware/ Standardware format, and not a Hostageware one. If your users need to exchange, they can export/save-as to DOC 8, 9 and 10 (97, 2000 and XP, respectively). You can _guarantee_ that your ODT (fka SXW) and other OOo formats will be available for full editing capability years form now -- you can_not_ guarantee that with DOC 8-10 (or anything pre-DOC11/XML, assuming Microsoft documents all their schema). > Is it even possible? Yes, it is in OOo 1.1.x, and I thought OOo 1.9.x/2.x as well, but I haven't personally tried with the latter. > Any comments or experiences would be appreciated. Thanks. If you're going to deploy OOo, deploy OOo. Don't make it a headache by just saving back into a Hostageware format, you're just going to cause your company _more_ headache. I.e., you might as well not even bother with OOo if you save to DOC. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 5 13:01:33 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB5@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Thanks for your reply, Bryan. > > Is anyone using OOo v2 builds in production settings? > > I've actually been using it since early May. I've been > vastly impressed with the capabilities in even the "beta." Excellent. Have they fixed the problem with pasting in images from the clipboard whereby the pasted image didn't get saved in the file? That was a show-stopper back when I tried some early builds in March-ish. > I.e., you might as well not even bother with OOo if you save to DOC. I'd love to migrate the entire company to OOo/Oasys files but I'm not sure this is the right time to fight that battle. I had figured that giving the service reps some better software than the 9-year-old Office 97 would give us a step in the right direction, then once management saw how the software worked well introduce them to the concept of using the improved file format for internal documents. It would save us a fortune long-term, and only create minor headaches along the way with either new or forgetful employees. I should also mention that the group of users that would be affected by this is our customer support department of ten people. The majority of them are not very technical so ease of use is a major factor - hence my interest in OOo v2 versus v1 (v2 is easier to use). Along with OOo each machine will also have Microsoft Outlook 2000 installed as the email client, I had originally asked if they'd be willing to upgrade to Office 2003 but they weren't willing to spend money on that right now. Along with the 10 support people there are about another ten others in the company that do business support & development of various kinds. I intend using Acronis Snap Deploy to deploy the OS installations to the individual workstations, I'm evaluating it at the moment but it looks like it will do what I need, and is cheaper & easier to use than Norton Ghost. Anyone know of a good manager-accessible article that explains the rationale for migrating to OOo in the first place? Something like that would be a major help with my plans. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 5 13:37:48 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Enterprise-level installation of Firefox & profiles? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB7@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Has anyone deployed Firefox in an enterprise setting? I'm looking to do that at work (yes, along with OOo) and have a few questions: * What is the current status with Firefox and roaming profiles? We're going to be using roaming profiles for our user accounts. The notes in bugzilla are a little confusing. Also, what's the best way to set defaults for configuration options, boomarks, etc? Actually, I've just found http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox:1.5_Institutional_Deployment so anyone have any further experiences? Thanks. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 5 13:56:36 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB5@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB5@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1120586196.7018.47.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 13:01 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Excellent. > Have they fixed the problem with pasting in images from the clipboard > whereby the pasted image didn't get saved in the file? That was a > show-stopper back when I tried some early builds in March-ish. Don't know, I didn't adopt it until May. I'm also using Linux, so that's clearly an issue where the codebases differ between Linux and Windows. > I'd love to migrate the entire company to OOo/Oasys files but I'm not > sure this is the right time to fight that battle. Then I honestly don't see why you'd go OOo then? The "cost" of MS Office has _never_ been the software, but the loss of "investment" in documents that are 3+ years old and can no longer be edited verbatim, if at all. Figure $400 for a typical MS Office, spread over, say, 2 years. $200/year "cost" for the company in the license. Now figure just the typical clerk at a measly $10/hour -- a very _conservative_ rate -- who puts 25% of his/her work into creating documents -- another _very_conservative_ rate. Now figure just 25% -- yet another very _conservative_ estimate 25% of that contend is lost when it is retrieved at a latter date. Over 2 years, that is a cost of $20,000 * 0.25 * 0.25 * 2 = $2,500! And that is a "best case scenario"! This is typically due to binary data alignment of MS Word's save routines and changes in the OS/compilers that break on x86, which has _no_ alignment requirements. It is so bad that it's the driving factor in Microsoft's switch to XML, which they have _always_ planned for Office 11. Now they are just promising to open all meta-data. That move is going to _break_ compatibility. It would not surprise me one bit if one of the major portions of the Microsoft- Sun alliance is Microsoft's licensure of the OOo/SO import/export code for Office 11, something that _is_ under Sun's copyright. So you're already going to "run into" the loss of data in the future anyway. And you're already flopping between DOC 8 (MS Word 97) and OOo, that's only going to make it work. IN A NUTSHELL (IMPO**): Pick 1 and stick with it for maximum compatibility. [ **In My Professional Opinion, if I was selling to someone -- even if it meant they stuck with MS Word 97, which it often does. ;-] Now I've have argued (IMHO -- now I'm "humble" on this) that this should be OOo for longevity. But if you're going to stay with DOC 8, I would recommend you'd just stick with MS Word 97 itself. If anything ... "in the worst case" ... it _looks_ like WINE is able to "emulate" the "binary/data alignment" required. > I had figured that giving the service reps some better software than > the 9-year-old Office 97 would give us a step in the right direction, > then once management saw how the software worked well introduce them > to the concept of using the improved file format for internal > documents. You're going to get stopped before you even get started. Why? Because between the conversion to/from OOo's features and MS Office's attributes, you're going to lose _more_ than if you just stuck with one or the other. You're going to give management the "worst case scenario" -- a non- native program converting _all_ the time. ;-> You want to show the _native_ format and features, and _limit_ the conversion _only_ when necessary. If it is your intention to show management that OOo is a "better DOC 8 editor than MS Word 97," then you are going to _fail_ as _bad_ as "MS Office 98 for MacOS" did. ;-> > It would save us a fortune long-term, and only create minor headaches > along the way with either new or forgetful employees. Again, IMPO, I would choose to use the _native_ format for the program you stick with -- be it MS Word 97 for DOC 8, or a switch to ODT for OOo 1.9.x/2.x. And IMHO, if you really want to address document longevity _now_, before Microsoft enforces it on you in MS Office 11 anyway (possibly via what you get in OOo/SO anyway -- see my "assumption" above), you might as well go ODT by default with OOo. Otherwise you're just going to show management how much of a "kludge" it is to maintain DOC 8 with another implementation than MS Word 97 itself. Your users will quickly learn to "Save As" for exchange with others, but you will _not_ be putting precious "company investments" in a _dead_ format. ;-> > I should also mention that the group of users that would be affected by > this is our customer support department of ten people. The majority of > them are not very technical so ease of use is a major factor - hence my > interest in OOo v2 versus v1 (v2 is easier to use). Import is transparent. Export is a matter of teaching them to "Save As." They will quickly learn it if they send an ODT to someone. And if you think management won't like that, don't be surprised when management doesn't like what OOo does when a user formats something in a way under OOo, but it doesn't look like that (or doesn't work at all) once it is saved to DOC -- especially all the "confusion" the user will get when OOo says "saving this to MS Word format will lose some features" (or similar comment). > Along with OOo each machine will also have Microsoft Outlook 2000 > installed as the email client, I had originally asked if they'd be > willing to upgrade to Office 2003 but they weren't willing to spend > money on that right now. Well, I'm not going to touch the collaboration stuff. In a nutshell, if I was a consultant on this, I would continue to deploy MS Word 97, until I had sold the management on a "pilot" where you are addressing the "Freedomware desktop" in more of a "here is what it's going to cost you, here is what you will gain" truth. Trying to replace MS Office with OOo/SO transparently, including defaulting to MS Office documents, _never_ works -- for the same reasons why MS Office 98, 2001, X, etc... for Mac have the _same_ issues. Because in the end, it will only have management believing that OOo/SO sucks -- just like Macs -- when it wasn't the problem in the first place. ;-> > Along with the 10 support people there are about another ten others in > the company that do business support & development of various kinds. > I intend using Acronis Snap Deploy to deploy the OS installations to the > individual workstations, I'm evaluating it at the moment but it looks > like it will do what I need, and is cheaper & easier to use than Norton > Ghost. > Anyone know of a good manager-accessible article that explains the > rationale for migrating to OOo in the first place? Something like that > would be a major help with my plans. I just gave you the 1 paragraph, 3+ year document longevity reasoning -- especially given the fact that Microsoft has indirectly admitted it is a _major_ "cost" for companies today. But as far as "transparently" replacing MS Office with OOo/SO while continuing to use MS Office formats, no, I don't think many people would advocate that -- not even with 1.9.x/2.x -- and I wouldn't either. That's in my _professional_ opinion -- sticking with MS Office 97 would be better if you're going to use DOC, XLS, PPT, etc... by default. As far as MS Office v. OOo/SO, that's IMHO -- only you can decide if you should be using MS Office with DOC or OOo/SO with ODT. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 5 14:21:37 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Enterprise-level installation of Firefox & profiles? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB7@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB7@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1120587697.7018.70.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 13:37 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Has anyone deployed Firefox in an enterprise setting? The Mozilla suite and, more recently, Firefox browser are _officially_ _supported_ in (company name omitted) $30.5B (yes, billion) Integrated Defense Systems (IDS) unit. > I'm looking to do that at work (yes, along with OOo) and have a fe > questions: > * What is the current status with Firefox and roaming profiles? > We're going to be using roaming profiles for our user accounts. > The notes in bugzilla are a little confusing. - Roaming Profiles NT's Roaming Profiles are a PITA -- always have been, always will be. The problem will not related to Mozilla/Firefox, but NT in general. You have to know what you are doing, and even then, NT will rear-end you in many cases. There are ways to proliferate files across your network without using the the "all-encompassing clusterfsck" of roaming profiles. You can setup different attributes in a user .DAT to reference different _portions_ of a profile. That's what I do, because I can't trust the entire profile directory to be "roaming" -- at least NT5.0/2000 gives you more "piecemeal" options (did I mention I hate how roaming profiles work, and have since NT 3.51? ;-). - Client Customization Kit (CCK) In the case of (company name omitted) Shared Services Group (SSG), the ones who handle the roll-out, they are using some version of the Client Customization Kit from old Netscape 6/7. I've been meaning to ask them more details of this when I had time, but they are clearly doing it as of Firefox 1.0.4. When a user logs in the first time on a system, Firefox 1.0.4 sets up all the details from their centralized Mozilla/Firefox configuration. It solves the entire issue AFAICT, but I don't know what changes they've made to it. > Also, what's the best way to set defaults for configuration options, > boomarks, etc? Use the CCK, or something with a linage to it. Again, I'm going to get more info on what we're doing, but it looks like an XPI. > Actually, I've just found > http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox:1.5_Institutional_Deployment so anyone > have any further experiences? Here is the current 0.1 release of the CCK for FireFox 1.0.4. I don't know if SSG is using that ... http://www.mozilla.org/projects/cck/firefox/ -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From tim at mcdonough.net Tue Jul 5 14:53:30 2005 From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> Does there exist or can someone suggest what search terms to use for a rescue CD for Windows XP? What I'd like is a bootable CD that allow a network connection and access to the PC hard disk. There have been several times when I have had PCs fail to boot because of a missing or corrupt file and ideally I'd like to be able to make sure key documents, etc. are copied off if possible before trying to repair or recover from the Windows CDROM. This seems like it would be especially useful for laptops where it's not always easy to pop out the drive and hook it to another system as a slave. Thanks, Tim -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/39 - Release Date: 7/4/2005 From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 15:50:01 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues -- INSERT (Linux Live CD) Message-ID: <17300541.1120593002243.JavaMail.root@wamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Tim McDonough > Does there exist or can someone suggest what search terms to use > for a rescue CD for Windows XP? The problem is that Gates himself removed the ability to boot into a full "CMD.EXE" shell from day one in NT 3.1, even though it was based on OS/2. Gates required the Graphical Display Interface (GDI) before NT would boot, which has become the Achilles heel of NT. Microsoft re-introduced the Recovery Console in NT 5.0+ (2000+), but it still doesn't allow all sorts of access -- from the filesystem to the registry. Once again, some core subsystems require on the GDI, including much of the filesystem and registry support. Microsoft was working towards a new CLI (command line interface) environment MONAD. No one knew if it would just be a ".NET scripting environment" inside of NT 6.0 "Longhorn" (most likely), or if it would be a full CLI boot environment for when the GDI -- now, WGF (Windows Graphics Foundation -- GDI+DX+.NET). But we'll never know since it's been canned. > What I'd like is a bootable CD that allow a network connection and > access to the PC hard disk. There have been several times when I have > had PCs fail to boot because of a missing or corrupt file and ideally > I'd like to be able to make sure key documents, etc. are copied off if > possible before trying to repair or recover from the Windows CDROM. > This seems like it would be especially useful for laptops where it's > not always easy to pop out the drive and hook it to another system as > a slave. This is exactly why Linux Live CDs exist. To boot into an environment with networking, a NTFS read-only** driver and other support. It's much more feature-full than a Microsoft DOS + Network Client boot disk, hence the popularity. As of January 2003, there is even a full NT registry editor for Linux. The most popular Linux Live CD build system is Knoppix (although be wary of some releases with a lot of non-freely redistributable software out there): http://www.knoppix.org/ One of the first "canned" releases for NT was the "Password Reset" CD. As of 2003, it had evolved into all the basic tools you need to read NTFS, hack the registry or, it's original purpose, reset the password (of a non-DC): http://home.eunet.no/~pnordahl/ntpasswd/faq.html More recently there has been an effort for an universal security CD for doing all sorts of things -- from reading NTFS with via Captive**, Anti-Virus, network/wireless support, computer forsensics, etc... called INSERT: http://www.inside-security.de/insert_en.html Lastly, someone has built an "Ultimate Boot CD" around INSERT and other tools, although it probably contains a lot of software that is not supposed to be redistributed (at least there's a lot of software that cannot legally be freely redistributed): http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ -- Bryan **NOTE: _Never_ write to a NTFS filesystem from anything _but_ the NT installation that created it -- _not_ even the same NT version/SP, because there are SIDs tied to the registry which is local to that NT installation. The only way around this is via the "Captive" user- space driver based on ReactOS (a NT-like/compatible GNU system) in Linux (which is very, very slow -- long story): http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/captive/ I'm doing a presentation to the St. Louis UNIX User's Group (SLUUG) next week on Linux-NT interoperability, as well as NT recovery via Linux. In a nutshell, NTFS was _not_ designed well, and Microsoft has tried to address this with the defunct "CairoFS" (NT 4.0 "Cario" / "Cario" technology / vaporware) and, now, WinFS (NT 6.0 "Longhorn" / WinFX technology / [might as well be] vaporware). -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From work at sprynet.com Tue Jul 5 15:57:22 2005 From: work at sprynet.com (J.T. Hayden) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> Message-ID: <00a201c5819b$c4a181c0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Yes its called bart PE works great J.T. Hayden -----Original Message----- From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Tim McDonough Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 14.54 To: Pc_support@matrixlist.com Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues Does there exist or can someone suggest what search terms to use for a rescue CD for Windows XP? What I'd like is a bootable CD that allow a network connection and access to the PC hard disk. There have been several times when I have had PCs fail to boot because of a missing or corrupt file and ideally I'd like to be able to make sure key documents, etc. are copied off if possible before trying to repair or recover from the Windows CDROM. This seems like it would be especially useful for laptops where it's not always easy to pop out the drive and hook it to another system as a slave. Thanks, Tim -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/39 - Release Date: 7/4/2005 _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support@matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From ae4ko at amsat.org Tue Jul 5 16:01:20 2005 From: ae4ko at amsat.org (Aaron Morrison) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> References: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> Message-ID: <42CAE710.1070500@amsat.org> Tim McDonough wrote: > Does there exist or can someone suggest what search terms to use for a > rescue CD for Windows XP? > > What I'd like is a bootable CD that allow a network connection and > access to the PC hard disk. There have been several times when I have > had PCs fail to boot because of a missing or corrupt file and ideally > I'd like to be able to make sure key documents, etc. are copied off if > possible before trying to repair or recover from the Windows CDROM. This > seems like it would be especially useful for laptops where it's not > always easy to pop out the drive and hook it to another system as a slave. > > Thanks, > > Tim > > Look into BartPE: http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ It will do what you are looking for. --am From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 16:05:30 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <20354982.1120593931030.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: "J.T. Hayden" > Yes its called bart PE works great Damn I'm outta date. Excellent link! Seems this might be better for many tasks. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From ae4ko at amsat.org Tue Jul 5 16:20:26 2005 From: ae4ko at amsat.org (Aaron Morrison) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <20354982.1120593931030.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <20354982.1120593931030.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <42CAEB8A.6030701@amsat.org> Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > Damn I'm outta date. > Excellent link! > Seems this might be better for many tasks. A bit! ;-) BartPE has been around for a couple of years. Nice thing about it is that there are quite a few plug-ins around that make the disk even more useful. Most plug-ins are shells around other products like Nero, AV scanners, etc. One particularly useful one for me since I have a couple of Novell servers around is the Netware Client plug-in that allows me to attach to the NW servers. Very useful. --am From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 16:22:45 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <17185234.1120594965868.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Aaron Morrison > A bit! ;-) BartPE has been around for a couple of years. Nice thing > about it is that there are quite a few plug-ins around that make the > disk even more useful. Most plug-ins are shells around other products > like Nero, AV scanners, etc. One particularly useful one for me since > I have a couple of Novell servers around is the Netware Client plug-in > that allows me to attach to the NW servers. > Very useful. I had heard of the Windows PE, but I had dismissed it as quite limited. I guess I've been doing so much Linux and Solaris the last 2 years that I'm well outta-date with what 3rd parties have been doing with similar offerings. It looks like it's NT5.1 (XP/2003) only, correct? -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Jul 5 16:37:08 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AE7@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > I had heard of the Windows PE, but I had dismissed it as > quite limited. Seems they fixed some of the limitations with BartPE. > It looks like it's NT5.1 (XP/2003) only, correct? Correct. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 17:07:07 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues Message-ID: <6991841.1120597628155.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > Seems they fixed some of the limitations with BartPE. Exactly! Which is why I feel like a bone-head for not bothering to even look at it. I'm sure I've heard people talking about a Windows PE several times, and just dismissed it as more "oh, we're going to make NT 'fixable' like OS/2 and Linux." So much for my not paying attention. > Correct. Sigh, it's time I dove back into the NT5.1 stuff. I need to update my MCSA/MCSE to 2003 anyway. Might as well get the full, technical tour alongside studying the "Microsoft answers." -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From tim at mcdonough.net Tue Jul 5 17:08:53 2005 From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <42CAE710.1070500@amsat.org> References: <42CAD72A.6040002@mcdonough.net> <42CAE710.1070500@amsat.org> Message-ID: <42CAF6E5.3020902@mcdonough.net> Aaron Morrison wrote: > Look into BartPE: > > http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ > > It will do what you are looking for. > > --am J.T. and Aaron -- Thanks! Bart PE looks like exactly what I wanted. -- Tim N9PUZ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/39 - Release Date: 7/4/2005 From work at sprynet.com Tue Jul 5 19:07:06 2005 From: work at sprynet.com (J.T. Hayden) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <17185234.1120594965868.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00da01c581b6$43eaa7d0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Actually not, I have compiled for 98SE and ME as well as XP pro J.T. Hayden -----Original Message----- From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Bryan J. Smith Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 16.23 To: ae4ko@amsat.org; This is the PC Support list. Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues From: Aaron Morrison > A bit! ;-) BartPE has been around for a couple of years. Nice thing > about it is that there are quite a few plug-ins around that make the > disk even more useful. Most plug-ins are shells around other products > like Nero, AV scanners, etc. One particularly useful one for me since > I have a couple of Novell servers around is the Netware Client plug-in > that allows me to attach to the NW servers. > Very useful. I had heard of the Windows PE, but I had dismissed it as quite limited. I guess I've been doing so much Linux and Solaris the last 2 years that I'm well outta-date with what 3rd parties have been doing with similar offerings. It looks like it's NT5.1 (XP/2003) only, correct? -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support@matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From ae4ko at amsat.org Tue Jul 5 20:01:40 2005 From: ae4ko at amsat.org (Aaron Morrison) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:03 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <00da01c581b6$43eaa7d0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> References: <17185234.1120594965868.JavaMail.root@wamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <42CAE724.7062.13A525@localhost> On 5 Jul 2005 at 19:07, J.T. Hayden wrote: > Actually not, I have compiled for 98SE and ME as well as XP pro > > J.T. Hayden > Eh? Where? That could be useful for some things... Older version of PEBuilder? Didn't think that Win98 et.al had the Preinstall Environment (PE) that all of this is based on. --am From work at sprynet.com Tue Jul 5 21:37:42 2005 From: work at sprynet.com (J.T. Hayden) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <42CAE724.7062.13A525@localhost> Message-ID: <012701c581cb$4decdcc0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> The version I HAD (I don't think I have it anymore due to systems crash) did ME and SE I can look to see if I still have it J.T. Hayden -----Original Message----- From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Morrison Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 20.02 To: work@mindspring.com; This is the PC Support list. Subject: RE: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues On 5 Jul 2005 at 19:07, J.T. Hayden wrote: > Actually not, I have compiled for 98SE and ME as well as XP pro > > J.T. Hayden > Eh? Where? That could be useful for some things... Older version of PEBuilder? Didn't think that Win98 et.al had the Preinstall Environment (PE) that all of this is based on. --am _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support@matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 5 21:51:51 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues In-Reply-To: <00da01c581b6$43eaa7d0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> References: <00da01c581b6$43eaa7d0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Message-ID: <1120614711.7801.4.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 19:07 -0400, J.T. Hayden wrote: > Actually not, I have compiled for 98SE and ME as well as XP pro Well, 98SE and ME are just MS-DOS 7.1, not MS-NT 5.1. It's not too difficult to build a DOS boot disk. ;-> -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net Tue Jul 5 22:01:38 2005 From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (Austin Denyer (Ozz)) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050705220138.090ff063.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:26:31 -0400, "Damien McKenna" wrote: > Is anyone using OOo v2 builds in production settings? I'm in charge > of creating the new OS build for our new workstations at work and I'm > looking to standardize on many OSS tools, mainly Firefox and OOo. I can't speak for the Windoze version, but the Linux version of OOo2 takes a LOOOOOONG time to load. Once it's loaded it's pretty sweet and reasonably snappy (as long as you have plenty of RAM), but you do need some serious hardware if you're planning to impress anyone. By way of an example, I just tried it on a Dual-Processor Pentium III (2x750MHz) with 768 Megs of RAMBUS memory, a fresh (as of this morning) install of Debian Testing with 2.6.8-2-SMP kernel and IceWM, and it took close to 2 minutes to load oowriter2! It took around 40 secs to load oowriter2 on this box (3.0GHz AMD64, 1 Gig RAM, IceWM, Debian Pure64 native with OOo2 in a 32-bit Sid chroot), although to be fair I'm hitting this box pretty hard right now, as the following clip from top shows: Mem: 1023320k total, 1001832k used, 21488k free, 121672k buffers Swap: 1951856k total, 1118200k used, 833656k free, 505316k cached Regards, Ozz. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Jul 5 23:37:34 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <20050705220138.090ff063.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1678AB1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <20050705220138.090ff063.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> Message-ID: <1120621054.8014.3.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-07-05 at 22:01 -0400, Austin Denyer wrote: > I can't speak for the Windoze version, but the Linux version of OOo2 > takes a LOOOOOONG time to load. Once it's loaded it's pretty sweet and > reasonably snappy (as long as you have plenty of RAM), but you do need > some serious hardware if you're planning to impress anyone. It actually loaded in under 4 seconds for me in Linux/x86-64, Athlon 64 3200+, 1GB SDRAM (DDR400, 2.5-3-3-7 timing), Western Digital 320GB 7200rpm SATA drive. Now I _know_ that's not a typical system. But still, I'm not seeing any "difference" between OOo 1.0 / SO 7.0 and OOo 1.9.104 (my version of the 2.0 beta). > By way of an example, I just tried it on a Dual-Processor Pentium III > (2x750MHz) with 768 Megs of RAMBUS memory, a fresh (as of this morning) > install of Debian Testing with 2.6.8-2-SMP kernel and IceWM, and it took > close to 2 minutes to load oowriter2! Ouch! That sounds like it's a different issue, but that could be me. > It took around 40 secs to load oowriter2 on this box (3.0GHz AMD64, 1 > Gig RAM, IceWM, Debian Pure64 native with OOo2 in a 32-bit Sid chroot), > although to be fair I'm hitting this box pretty hard right now, as the > following clip from top shows: > Mem: 1023320k total, 1001832k used, 21488k free, 121672k buffers > Swap: 1951856k total, 1118200k used, 833656k free, 505316k cached Ouch -- you're using 2GB of RAM. Here was my system state (I just got done playing a few rounds of UT2004): Mem: 1025120k total, 1012812k used, 12308k free, 8524k buffers Swap: 7823612k total, 292k used, 7823320k free, 465648k cached -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 00:00:26 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... Message-ID: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> All -- I just wanted to point out that I just upgraded from a Seagate 200GB 7200rpm ATA to a Western Digital 320GB 7200rpm SATA and I'm seeing a _massive_ performance boost. I haven't done any benchmarks, and I'm not sure it's actually throughput related, but the access time/response "feel" is clearly much, much faster. I noticed it is indexing my local Evolution mbox files much faster than before -- 3x over! Why, I'm not sure. Being that the WD is clearly a newer generation drive and density, it's not really fair to the Seagate in comparison. I know the interface really doesn't make any difference, as neither drive approaches the interface limitations -- unless, of course, maybe the nVidia ATA design has some serious bottlenecks. And it's not likely the use of the SCSI subsystem (via nv_sata), because it's still a "dumb block" ATA data stream -- no NCQ or anything. So the only other thing I think it could be (besides the newer gen drive, which is definitely part of it) is the fact that the SATA channels are on their own, dedicated PCIe x1 channel. The SATA isn't contending for I/O bandwidth with any other devices on the legacy PCI bus, and I have to assume this is a major reason. It could also be the bi-directional features of PCIe x1 as well, commands/writing and reading also do not contend for the I/O channel. Whatever it is, I really need to get two drives of the same model to test it out further, and throw a few apps at it. Otherwise, I am extremely and pleasantly surprised to see the result. Again, I can only assume a good part of the reason is because the 4-port SATA of the nForce (all versions -- Standard, Ultra and SLI -- the latter two being SATA-2/300, mine is only SATA-1/150, not that it's much difference today) is on its own PCIe x1, whereas all the other ATA is on the legacy, shared PCI bus. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From damien at mc-kenna.com Wed Jul 6 00:05:49 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... In-Reply-To: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <42CB589D.7010002@mc-kenna.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >I just wanted to point out that I just upgraded from a Seagate 200GB >7200rpm ATA to a Western Digital 320GB 7200rpm SATA and I'm seeing a >_massive_ performance boost. > That would be excellent! Have you looked at the nForce4 schematics to see if there's something there? -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From philb at philb.us Wed Jul 6 00:11:27 2005 From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <200507060011.28150.philb@philb.us> On Tuesday 05 July 2005 12:38 pm, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > So what point > is there in running OOo if you're just going to store the documents > in a Hostageware format that may not be well supported in the > future? Are you saying that a format that OOo can save in now is going to go away? Or that OOo will some day become incapable of loading a document that it saved in a previous incarnation of OOo? -- "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -Mark Twain From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 6 00:39:59 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... In-Reply-To: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507060040.00112.jasonb@edseek.com> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 00:00, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > All -- > > Whatever it is, I really need to get two drives of the same model to > test it out further, and throw a few apps at it. Otherwise, I am > extremely and pleasantly surprised to see the result. Again, I can only > assume a good part of the reason is because the 4-port SATA of the > nForce (all versions -- Standard, Ultra and SLI -- the latter two being > SATA-2/300, mine is only SATA-1/150, not that it's much difference > today) is on its own PCIe x1, whereas all the other ATA is on the > legacy, shared PCI bus. Dude, you're making me want to upgrade. Stop. ;) I can't afford it right now, especially since it doesn't make sense to get the really cheap legacy stuff now with PCIe stuff not much more expensive. Sigh. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 01:18:49 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] AnandTech on nForce4 Ultra mainboards ... Message-ID: <1120627129.8014.43.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Thought I'd point out that AnandTech has done a review of various nForce4 Ultra mainboards: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2465 If you're not looking at SLI, which may or may not benefit you at all, then you probably just want an nForce4 Ultra mainboard. They prices start at sub-$100 Foxconn NF4UK8AA and around $110 for the Epox 9NPA+, and climb to mid-$150+ for other mainboards. Personally, I could care less about overclocking these days, and the Foxconn's "little brother" in my Foxconn NF4K8MC-ERS (nForce4 Standard) MicroATX has totally sold me on reliability. But that's just me. Anand found most of the benchmarks that had it "on-par" with most of the other mainboards. Overall, AnandTech has done an _excellent_review_ of not only the standard benchmarks, but the audio, ATA, NIC and other features, including CPU utilization of different configurations. That's always a consideration (especially an ALC850 in 3D spatial audio -- bam! CPU hit!). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 01:31:12 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Foxconn's $245 Single Opteron, nForce Pro 2200 + 2050 ... Message-ID: <1120627872.8014.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> This little mainboard caught my eye just today: http://www.foxconnchannel.com/products_motherboard_2.cfm? pName=NFPIK8AA-8EKRS Now there are a few vendors coming out with nForce Pro 2200 Opteron mainboards, and a few others coming out with nForce Pro 2200 + 2050 dual Opteron mainboards. But this was a single Opteron with the 2200 + 2050 combination -- 40 PCIe lanes, (2) GbE NICs (one in each chip) and (8) SATA ports (four in each chip). The GbE MACs and SATA ports are not on the standard, legacy, shared PCI bus, but segmented either with PCIe x1 channels or integrated directly on the HyperTransport interconnect. Now if I had money to spend on a "server" or "workstation," I'd go for a mainboard with an AMD813x and it's dual-PCI-X channels, as well as a storage controller to match. But if I didn't have money, the segmented NIC/SATA combination may very well be great for the price to start -- $245 for an Opteron mainboard. Especially since the SATA are supported in the _stock_ Linux kernel 2.6 (nv_sata), and nVidia now supports direct development of the 1000Mbps NIC and it's getting quite good (GPL forcedeth -- although the closed source nv_net is still an option if you run into any issues). It also is somewhat "future proof" because there are all sorts of options to upgrade to PCIe storage/NIC hardware as they become available**. Even for a workstation, where both PCIe x16 slots may be in use for SLI, there is still a PCIe x4 slots for storage that is off, away from the graphics cards (in addition to (2) PCIe x1 slots). [ **NOTE: Broadcom just introduced its first _true_ RAID hardware intelligence in a single IC for SATA RAID channels, as well as both PCIe and PCI-X interfaces (it can even bridge the two) for $60 in quantities of $10K. That means a board is probably going to be $250-300 end-user (the design supports up to 768MB of SDRAM buffer) and you can expect them later in the year. ] Opteron 100 series are sub-$200 for a good, 2GHz/1MB L2 processor. The only other cost is Registered SDRAM, but Registered ECC DDR333 SDRAM is very reliable, and not much more in cost. This makes this mainboard an excellent idea for an "entry level server" when cost is king, but you don't want to skimp on reliability. If you're planning to go SLI for a "high-end" workstation then you'll need a PS with a triple +12V feed with (2) 6-pin WS connectors (one for each PCIe x16 card) because the mainboard feed isn't going to cut it. It only has the standard 24-pin ATX 2.0 (supposedly 20-pin ATX 1.0 "tolerant" but I wouldn't push it ;-) + 4-pin P4. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 6 01:37:30 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Foxconn's $245 Single Opteron, nForce Pro 2200 + 2050 ... In-Reply-To: <1120627872.8014.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120627872.8014.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200507060137.30126.jasonb@edseek.com> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 01:31, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Opteron 100 series are sub-$200 for a good, 2GHz/1MB L2 processor. The > only other cost is Registered SDRAM, but Registered ECC DDR333 SDRAM is > very reliable, and not much more in cost. This makes this mainboard an > excellent idea for an "entry level server" when cost is king, but you > don't want to skimp on reliability. But "entry level" for what task? My old dual P3 733MHz seems to get the job done, so I guess it's "mid level" or "high end" for me. ;) -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 01:56:24 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: OpenOffice v2 beta usage in production setting? In-Reply-To: <200507060011.28150.philb@philb.us> References: <31667295.1120581521088.JavaMail.root@wamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <200507060011.28150.philb@philb.us> Message-ID: <1120629384.8014.81.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 00:11 -0400, Phil Barnett wrote: > Are you saying that a format that OOo can save in now is going to go away? No, I was saying if you're using OOo to save in DOC 8/9/10 by default, that has not only _always_ been a risk, but Microsoft is _killing_it_ as of DOC 11 (in favor of its new, supposedly-to-be-documented, XML standard). In fact, let me re-iterate the issues, one-by-one ... 1) x86 Binary Alignment issues DOC 8/9/10 (MS Word 97/2000/XP) have well-known, unintentional Hostageware (unmaintainable standard, unmaintainable source) issues due to reliance on simple binary records write/reads and lack of any alignment in x86. This is not only affecting portability to Mac and inter-version compatibility, but is affecting the x86-64 port as well. See #3. 2) Tag reuse DOC 7/8/9/10 (MS Word 95/97/2000/XP) also have well-known, _intentional_ Hostageware issues due to "tag reuse" to force upgrades and stint reverse engineering. E.g., tag re-use of DOC 7 (95) to both DOC 8 and 9 (97 and 2000), and some, to a lesser extent, in DOC 8 (97) to 10 (2000). This has improved in DOC 11 (MS Word 2003), but it's too little, too late -- especially for companies like Ozz who are still using DOC 8 (MS Word 97). 3) DOC 12 is going to be XML Because of the issues caused both unintentionally by #1, and intentionally by #2, Microsoft has been planing to make XML** the default in DOC 12 (MS Word 2005) -- especially for portability to x86-64. This is now the plan for DOC 12, and will cause _major_conversion_headaches_ for _all_, although it will solve the problem in the long-run. Conversion programs are already in development, and it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft licensed Sun's copyright on OOo/SO conversion code (that's a conspiracy theory, yes, but it's a very good one, given that OOo contributors are encouraged to sign over copyright to Sun in a formal writing). [ **NOTE: Don't confuse the DOC 12 plan with prior XML efforts. Although they already offered "end-user interfaces" in DOC 11 (2003), they were for extending on the user side -- i.e., interfacing/extending MS Office for 3rd party apps, not using them as the underlying format for MS Office's own documents. ] 4) OOo/SO has features that do _not_ match MSO If you save to DOC in OOo/SO, you are often prompted if and when (which is almost always) any features that are OOo/SO-only will be lost when saved to DOC -- especially older DOC like version 8 (97). If you set up OOo/SO to save to DOC by default, this will happen _all_the_time_. I.e., users will create documents, and when they open them again, various features of the document will be _lost_. Not to mention the slight differences between OOo/SO and MS will be lost anyway, as conversion is _never_ perfect (not even between different MSO versions -- see #1 and #2 above). It's best to either convert _only_ when you need it, or just not use OOo/SO at all if you want DOC to be your default anyway. Trust me on this, you're asking for a world of hurt -- only adopt OOo/SO if you plan to produce _all_ new documents in OOo/SO formats, and only occasionally convert as necessary to send to other parties. It is _not_ "transparent" -- not even in OOo 2.0. > Or that OOo will some day become incapable of loading a document that it > saved in a previous incarnation of OOo? No. Sun/OpenOffice.org _continues_ to support _all_ formats, prior and current ... - StarOffice 3/4/5 (pre-OOo): sdw - StarOffice 6/7 (OOo 1.x): sxw - StarOffice 8+ (OOo 2.x): odt (full OASIS standard**) [ **NOTE: This is basically the "sxw" as of OOo 1.1.x / SO 7.x ] -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 01:59:30 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... In-Reply-To: <200507060040.00112.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507060040.00112.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1120629570.8014.85.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 00:39 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > Dude, you're making me want to upgrade. All I have right now is my "feel." It could be other factors I'm not considering. E.g., the ATA of the nVidia chipset could really suck, and that's why there's a huge differential. Or it could be the generation of disks. That's why I want to get identical ATA and SATA drives, and I'll also compare the ATA version in the nForce ATA to my AMD and 3Ware cards (JBOD mode) -- assuming I find the time. > Stop. ;) > I can't afford it right now, especially since it doesn't make sense to > get the really cheap legacy stuff now with PCIe stuff not much more > expensive. I'm just happy the nv_sata works _flawless_ in Linux, very happy. Another cool thing in XP -- nVidia's "unified driver" means the _same_ configuration is used for both ATA and SATA, so I didn't have to boot Linux and hack the registry when I switched from ATA to SATA for my boot. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 02:04:34 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Foxconn's $245 Single Opteron, nForce Pro 2200 + 2050 ... In-Reply-To: <200507060137.30126.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <1120627872.8014.57.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507060137.30126.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1120629874.8014.89.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 01:37 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > But "entry level" for what task? My old dual P3 733MHz seems to get the job > done, so I guess it's "mid level" or "high end" for me. > ;) Agreed. But if you're running with more than 1GB of RAM, under Linux, you're using the split 4G/4G model (instead of 1G/3G) which hurts performance on x86. [ NOTE: Under NT, this is 2GB of RAM (split 2G/2G model). ] It's at that point you should consider Opteron (Linux/x86-64). There are other advantages, including the I/O MMU and the avoidance of the "bounce buffers" if you do have more than 4GB of RAM. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From GrokWeeble at HotPOP.com Wed Jul 6 10:11:47 2005 From: GrokWeeble at HotPOP.com (Mike Webb) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Windows XP Rescues--Bart's PE In-Reply-To: <20050706023109.C903E1396D5F@mx2.hotpop.com> Message-ID: <42CBA053.6339.295691C@localhost> > Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 16:20:26 -0400 > From: Aaron Morrison > A bit! ;-) BartPE has been around for a couple of years. Nice thing about > it is that there are quite a few plug-ins around that make the disk even > more useful. Most plug-ins are shells around other products like Nero, AV > scanners, etc. One particularly useful one for me since I have a couple > of Novell servers around is the Netware Client plug-in that allows me to > attach to the NW servers. Do you know if (and if so, where) there is a BartPE plugin for a file-by- file backup program such as BackUp MyPC (formerly Veritas Backup Exec Desktop)? THAT would be really handy. -- My Groklaw nym is Weeble. It came from the "Spiderweeb" and "Weeb" kind of nicknames a kid named Webb gets. I never even knew of the Hasbro product until after I started using "Weeble". Take note, any Hasbro attorneys. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 09:25:52 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard Message-ID: <1120656352.9732.16.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Little Socket-462 "bare bones" kit that would I sell ultra-cheap (like under $50). I'm hoping to get back to Orlando later in the month, it's been difficult with the hours I've been working (I've been flying my wife up for the summer). In a nutshell, I'm converting my wife to MicroATX, taking the CPU, DDR memory, etc..., so I have this case + mainboard already mounted. We can talk power supplies (I believe I have the original Antec 400W that came with it in the SX1040). Antec SX1000 series: http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=81003 [ I can get you all the 80mm fans you want, and I think several should be replaced for age. ] Biostar M7VIW mainboard: http://www.biostar-usa.com/mbdetails.asp?model=m7viw Some M7VIW highlights: - ViA KT266A / VT8235 combo The VT8235 is a very bug-free southbridge, most KT266-333 series ship with older VT8233 which had many issues -- I have not had any issues under any Linux (started with Red Hat Linux 9 / kernel 2.4.9). This mainboard was clearly designed as an "upgraders" board (see next two items for the reason), and came out when the KT333/KT400 were actually the "latest'n greatest." - _Both_ SDR (168-pin) SDRAM and DDR (184-pin) SDRAM I have used _both_ SDR and DDR in it -- started out with cheap (2) 256MB SDR and upgraded to (2) 512MB DDR more recently. I still have the SDR around if you don't have your own, but I figured you might already have your own PC100/133 or, possibly, DDR200/266 (PC1600/PC2100). - CPU support: 200/266MHz FSB, Athlon through 1.4GHz, Athlon XP2600+ I personally have the Athlon XP2600+ (2.13GHz) in it and it is _officially_ supported (I've already upgraded to the last BIOS). In the end, probably any 200/266MHz FSB Athlon/Duron is supported in it, including the XP2800+/266MHz, but the official BIOS support is only through XP2600+/266MHz. This board is built so it can recycle PC100/133 memory (as well as let you upgrade to DDR later), hence the use of the "older" KT266A chipset (even at the time it came out) and limitations to 200/266. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From m9u35g at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 10:42:07 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard In-Reply-To: <1120656352.9732.16.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120656352.9732.16.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <46f680d0507060742f8b1b90@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Little Socket-462 "bare bones" kit that would I sell ultra-cheap (like > under $50). I'm hoping to get back to Orlando later in the month, it's > been difficult with the hours I've been working (I've been flying my > wife up for the summer). I would love to bid on this. To confirm, the parts for sale are: mainboard (no cpu), case, and possible power supply. $50 for what exactly? The case and mainboard? That would be great Thanks, -- Justin Keyes From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 10:56:37 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard Message-ID: <7921030.1120661797486.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: "Justin M. Keyes" > I would love to bid on this. No bidding, first come, first serve. I typically "loan" it out for trial/use before someone pays me. > To confirm, the parts for sale are: > mainboard (no cpu), case, and possible power supply. Pretty much. I need to check what PSes I have, but I'm 1,000 miles away from the system right now. I'm going to try to get home by mid-month, but it's extremely difficult to get time off with all the responsibility I have right now, typically working 6 days/week. Ironically, it's all ultra-proprietary** work at the company, yet they keep me as a contractor**??? > $50 for what exactly? The case and mainboard? > That would be great Oh, I was figuring $50 or _even_less_. It all depends on what PS I can find. I see the M7VIW for $50 new, and the Antec case/variants for under $50 new with 300W PS. Assuming I can find a good PS, I was figuring $50. Otherwise maybe $30-40. I can't remember if that system has a 465W ATX 1.0 Enermax (and that will go to the new case, being that my new MicroATX it's not a ATX 2.0 mainboard, so the 300W ATX2.0 with split +12V might not be useful in the new case) and I have the original, 400W Antec laying around (which is still very good -- especially on the 3.3/5V lines for Athlon XP), or if I only have a 350W or some other, cheaper 300-400W PS extra laying around. -- Bryan P.S. I actually have a 2nd Antex SX1000 case without PS that you can have. It's missing a foot (stupid plastic PoS), and I think I cut the sides of it with 80mm intake fans -- can't remember. I'm more than willing to give that one away with it too. [ **NOTE: Not just DoD classified (contractors are used all the time for that stuff -- rather scary if you ask me ;-), but a lot is corporate proprietary, and I'm the only guy that is figuring out and learning the stuff, yet no one is bothering to show interest in actually retaining me, the guy that is going to be the only schmuck who understand how to deploy this stuff. ;-> Nice, especially when my wife's a teacher and it would be ideal if they made me an offer now. But I've been informally told that I won't get any offer until summer 2006, if they extend my contract past October at all. Oh why oh why did I leave my clients in Vegas? ;-] -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From m9u35g at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 11:05:20 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard In-Reply-To: <7921030.1120661797486.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <7921030.1120661797486.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <46f680d0507060805297fa9ff@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > I see the M7VIW for $50 new, and the Antec case/variants > for under $50 new with 300W PS. Assuming I can find a good > PS, I was figuring $50. Otherwise maybe $30-40. > > I can't remember if that system has a 465W ATX 1.0 Enermax > (and that will go to the new case, being that my new MicroATX > it's not a ATX 2.0 mainboard, so the 300W ATX2.0 with split > +12V might not be useful in the new case) and I have the original, > 400W Antec laying around (which is still very good -- especially > on the 3.3/5V lines for Athlon XP), or if I only have a 350W or > some other, cheaper 300-400W PS extra laying around. > > -- Bryan > > P.S. I actually have a 2nd Antex SX1000 case without PS that > you can have. It's missing a foot (stupid plastic PoS), and I think > I cut the sides of it with 80mm intake fans -- can't remember. > I'm more than willing to give that one away with it too. All sounds really great, just let me know when you are in town. I'm free all weekends and usually after 5:30 PM on weekdays. -- Justin Keyes From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 11:16:46 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Want to sell: Antec SX1000 case + Biostar M7VIW mainboard Message-ID: <30378744.1120663006781.JavaMail.root@wamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: "Justin M. Keyes" > All sounds really great, just let me know when you are in town. > I'm free all weekends and usually after 5:30 PM on weekdays. I will. I will probably just come in for the weekend of July 22-24. I'll just give you the unit (case with mainboard already mounted) so you can try it out on your own. I keep trying to get a full week off to clean up / pack up much of my house, but that keeps getting canceled--er, "pushed back." ;-> So I'll probably just fly back for a weekend instead -- the 22nd is looking best at this point, so maybe we can hook up on Sunday, the 24th. As I said, I'm treated and the expectations are like an employee, but they can't "justify" my position. Sigh, I'm seriously starting to _hate_ the mid-west and the non-sense that it's about "family values." Sad because I am originally from here, but I'm starting to realize that it's not the same as I remember it. Especially not in this economy. That aside, I have my "epiphany" last week. I got "flagged down" by someone I work with who wanted to yell at me about "speeding." I was doing 43 in a 40mph zone! Geez, I'm sorry if I don't want to do 30mph, 10 under the limit, like him! And the ultimate irony is that he flagged me right as we were passing a Radioactive dump (clearly visible from public road, less than 25' from the right-of- way). Oh the irony of "values"! @-p -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 6 13:43:27 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] WinXP + SysPrep + Norton Ghost basics Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AC2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Its been five years since I last used Norton Ghost to do anything and at the time I was only working with Windows 9x. At work I'm attempting to set up our customer service department's Windows XP machines to be managed using Norton Ghost or a similar program, but have some questions over how it all works. First off, from what I've read it seems that I really need to install the Ghost Client Partition, then install the OS & applications? Is there any way to put the partition on after an OS has already been installed? Secondly, after I have the install fine tuned the way I want, am I right in saying I have to use the SysPrep tool to clean down the installation so that it can then be copied to other computers? What happens after the cloned machines next boot, do they have to go through part of the Windows installation? All of our machines are identical (same model 'n everything) and I want to avoid as much post-imaging fiddling as possible. Any insights would be appreciated, I've got very little time to do a test, decide what method we're going to use and implement it. Thanks. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 14:33:36 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] WinXP + SysPrep + Norton Ghost basics In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AC2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AC2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1120674816.10239.12.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 13:43 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > Secondly, after I have the install fine tuned the way I want, am I right > in saying I have to use the SysPrep tool to clean down the installation > so that it can then be copied to other computers? Correct. Sysprep is NT5.0+'s "Registry-SAM-SID cleaner" that prevents multiple NT systems from the same image from having an identity crisis when they see each other on the network. Prior to Sysprep in NT5.0+, you pretty much had to use "hacked" solutions that changed the SIDs post-facto, on a clone. Now with Sysprep, we can do it _before_ we clone. > What happens after the cloned machines next boot, do they have to go > through part of the Windows installation? It depends, but by default, they typically do. If you've ever gotten a new tier-1 PC and been presented with the owner, key, etc..., that's basically what happens again. > All of our machines are identical (same model 'n everything) and I > want to avoid as much post-imaging fiddling as possible. You can automate some of this with your cloning tool, or various Sysprep scripts. > Any insights would be appreciated, I've got very little time to do a > test, decide what method we're going to use and implement it. Just run Sysprep, Ghost Dump and then do your Ghost Images _before_ booting the installation again (after you run Sysprep). If you accidentally let it boot, you'll need to re-Sysprep it. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 6 15:13:53 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] WinXP + SysPrep + Norton Ghost basics Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858ACA@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Thanks Bryan. > Correct. Sysprep is NT5.0+'s "Registry-SAM-SID cleaner" that prevents > multiple NT systems from the same image from having an identity crisis > when they see each other on the network. OK, that's what I was thinking. I really should have taken a Windows2000 Administration class while at college, just for knowledge-sake. > > All of our machines are identical (same model 'n everything) and I > > want to avoid as much post-imaging fiddling as possible. > > You can automate some of this with your cloning tool, or > various Sysprep scripts. Any recommendations on what to use? We're using OEM OS licenses, i.e. not a volume license which makes things a little more tricky. I'm having fun here, though struggling with the fact that Ghost 8 Corp Edition doesn't let you create a boot *CD*, only boot floppies. Major pain. And you don't get the PXE server with the evaluation copy so you can't see how well that works. This is, again, part of the 13-system installation I'm working on. I've evaluated Acronis Snap Deploy which is fairly good but misses out on some things, like not identifying systems based on the MAC so you can't tell the PXE server which systems to install if they don't have an OS install already, and I also can't get the deployment system to work at all, it won't recognize the two machines available to it. Norton Ghost is better for the most part, but having an incomplete eval installation is causing problems for me. Right now I'm installing Microsoft's Remote Installation Services to see if I can manually add the Ghost PXE image. And I thought I'd given up this stuff when I moved into web development? Pah ;) -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 15:43:22 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] WinXP + SysPrep + Norton Ghost basics Message-ID: <7860845.1120679003309.JavaMail.root@wamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Damien McKenna > OK, that's what I was thinking. I really should have taken a > Windows2000 Administration class while at college, just for > knowledge-sake. Hey, I'm outta date on NT5.1 (XP/2003) as we recently found out right on this list. ;-> As always, if you want the "crash course," I recommend the 70-218 book from Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/mspress/books/6140.asp It talks about Slipstreaming, Sysprep, RIS, etc..., all the basic tools that Windows 2000 comes with. The 70-218 exam is really a great "admin-level" book for everything that comes with Windows 2000. BTW, I haven't seen a good equivalent for Windows 2003 yet, although I have the 70-292/70-296 Microsoft and Syngress upgrade books. The MS book is supposed to suck (haven't been through it yet), with the Syngress being much better. > Any recommendations on what to use? We're using OEM OS > licenses, i.e. not a volume license which makes things a little > more tricky. I've been lucky to have gotten my hands on the "Select" CDs, at least for Windows 2000. ;-> > I'm having fun here, though struggling with the fact that Ghost 8 Corp > Edition doesn't let you create a boot *CD*, only boot floppies. Major > pain. And you don't get the PXE server with the evaluation copy so you > can't see how well that works. Exactly. I'd actually think about using Linux instead. Install on FAT32, Sysprep, then plop down on a new system, and have it convert to NTFS. > And I thought I'd given up this stuff when I moved into web development? > Pah ;) Never! -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 6 16:27:07 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? Message-ID: <200507061627.07810.jasonb@edseek.com> Anyone have any thoughts on x86 boxes ready to rock that need only have Linux installed? I'm looking for something in the $4-$5K range. It's going to be primarily a database server with some Web application development against said database server taking place. The datasets are of a moderate size, so 60GB of disk space or more is estimated. I'm looking for something that's SCA with RAID, preferably 4U in size. The current machine is a dual P3 box with 2GB of PC133 ECC RAM and an old Adaptec 2100-S RAID controller with 3 18GB Seagate Cheetah 10Ks in a RAID 5 configuration. Disks, redundancy, and disk accessibility are my primary interests. The existing CPU and RAM have proven adequate for our needs so far. Thoughts on vendors and such? Thanks. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Wed Jul 6 17:41:43 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AE2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > It's going to be primarily a database server with some Web > application development against said database server taking place. I'd aim for an Opteron system with a x86-64 distro if possible, otherwise IMHO you're wasting money. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From jasonb at edseek.com Wed Jul 6 17:58:57 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AE2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858AE2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <200507061758.57146.jasonb@edseek.com> On Wednesday 06 July 2005 17:41, Damien McKenna wrote: > > It's going to be primarily a database server with some Web > > application development against said database server taking place. > > I'd aim for an Opteron system with a x86-64 distro if possible, > otherwise IMHO you're wasting money. But from who? I don't want to play the assemble the server game. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From thebs413 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 19:31:25 2005 From: thebs413 at earthlink.net (Bryan J. Smith ) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? Message-ID: <142738.1120692685732.JavaMail.root@wamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: Jason Boxman > Anyone have any thoughts on x86 boxes ready to rock that need only > have Linux installed? I'm looking for something in the $4-$5K range. Well, if you haven't noticed by now, I can't, in good conscience, recommend Intel EM64T for servers. Although Intel has addressed some of the basic >4GiB memory issues with the latest Xeon MP, they still have the memory controller hub (MCH) "front side bottleneck," and the lack of an I/O MMU which means you're using "bounce buffers" for more than 4GiB of RAM. My personal opinion has been a staunch recommendation of either Opteron for newer, >1GiB RAM servers, or older, refurbished dual-P3 systems (with ServerWorks IIILE/IIIHE) for 1GiB RAM or less when you're pinching pennies. And when it comes to the Opteron, there varying designs. - Tier-1: HP or Sun If you want a tier-1 OEM, then the HP DL145, DL385 and DL585 2x, 2x and 4x Opterons are your meal tickets. For those not familar with HP's 14x (1U), 38x (2U) and 58x (4U) lines, the latter two have hot-swap, redundant power, etc..., while the former is clearly an economically designed system. http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/platforms/index-dl.html Sun definitely bests even HP in design, although you'll pay a premium for it. Their 4x Opteron SunFire V40z has (3) AMD8131 HyperTransport tunnels -- meaning (4) PCI-X slots are _full_ 133MHz, 1GBps slots, with the other (3) PCI-X slots being 66-100MHz (including the on-board peripherals). http://www.sun.com/servers/entry/v40z/index.jsp So, in a nutshell, when cost is a factor, the DL145 is great. If you just need a 2-way with a bit more, and hot-swap/PS redundancy options, the DL385 will do nicely. When you're looking for top-tier 4-way (8-way with dual-core) systems, the DL585 is a well-designed, AMD reference Opteron 800 great for all duties. If you want the ultimate in I/O, maybe because it's a file server, or has multiple storage/networking connections, it's hard to beat the SunFire V40z which goes beyond even AMD's reference Opteron 800. - Tier-2: Monarch Computer If you don't mind a tier-2 OEM that custom builds, especially if you like more SATA options like 3Ware controllers, then Monarch is definitely your partner. They are currently the _premier_ AMD partner, so they get the stuff _first_, often before _anyone_ else in the "whitebox" world (sometimes exclusiely for the first week or two of introduction). And they'll ship anything from Debian, Fedora, SuSE Linux to full-up RHEL and SLES with _software_ support in the case of the latter two (for sub-$1,500 in some cases, very nice). The Monarch Empro line is their Opteron offering, with various workstation, server and other options. They offer Rackmount servers in 1U, 2U and 3U form-factors, including 4, 8 and 12 3.5"x1" hot-swap HD drive bays plus slim 3.5" and CD drives. Mainboards are typically Tyan, among others, so they are geared more towards cost-conscience designs than ultra-I/O. E.g., although their 2x Opteron boards compete well with most tier-1 Opteron offerings, the 4x Opteron is clearly not quite as powerful as the DL585 or V40z. So if you're not looking to build a powerful file or other LAN server with massive I/O, but more of a web server with one PCI-X channel for network and the other for storage (single AMD8131), then the Monarch solutions will do quite well. http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=M&Category_Code=allEmpro > It's going to be primarily a database server with some Web > application development against said database server taking > place. The datasets are of a moderate size, so 60GB of disk > space or more is estimated. I'm looking for something that's > SCA with RAID, preferably 4U in size. In that case, I'd look at the Monarch Empro series in a 2U: - Dual Opteron 200** series (upgrade option to dual-core) - (4) 1GB Registered ECC (best size for the buck now) - LSI Logic MegaRAID 320-2X** XScale-driven RAID (dual-U320) - (2) 73GB or 146GB U320 drives in RAID-1 for system - (6) 36+GB U320 drives for RAID-5 for data **NOTE: A PCIe mainboard with LSI Logic MegaRAID 320-2E (PCIe x8 card) is also an option. The costs will be about $300-500 for the mainboard, CPU will vary ($400-800 total for 2x Opteron 244-248), $800-1,000 for the 4GiB of memory (use 4 DIMMs for the full 256-bit memory interconnect, 128-bit/CPU -- if you only need 2GiB, then use 512MB DIMMs instead), $500-600 for the MegaRAID 320-2X, various prices for the drives. > The current machine is a dual P3 box with 2GB of PC133 ECC > RAM and an old Adaptec 2100-S RAID controller with 3 18GB > Seagate Cheetah 10Ks in a RAID 5 configuration. Ouch, old i960-based RAID, not capable at all. > Disks, redundancy, and disk accessibility are my primary > interests. Monarch can give you a redundant PS configuration in 2U. > The existing CPU and RAM have proven adequate for our > needs so far. Hmm, why change then? Maybe buy another, dual-P3 config for cheap? Or are you saying the disk could be better? I would definitely use RAID-1 for the system volumes, and RAID-5 for the web data. > Thoughts on vendors and such? As above. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Jul 6 19:58:00 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Serious performance boost by going to SATA on nForce4 [standard] chipset ... In-Reply-To: <1120629570.8014.85.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1120622426.8014.13.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <200507060040.00112.jasonb@edseek.com> <1120629570.8014.85.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1120694280.10785.1.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 00:59 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > All I have right now is my "feel." > It could be other factors I'm not considering. I figured it out! Long story short, when I copied my mbox files over from one drive to another, they went from fragmented to contiguous. Sure enough, after 3-4 days of usage, they are now partially fragmented again, so indexing takes a bit longer. But I'm still seeing a significant boost. Maybe 50%+, but no where near the 3x I first saw. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From damien at mc-kenna.com Wed Jul 6 22:41:14 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:04 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <142738.1120692685732.JavaMail.root@wamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <142738.1120692685732.JavaMail.root@wamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <42CC964A.5010701@mc-kenna.com> Bryan J. Smith wrote: >If you want a tier-1 OEM, then the HP DL145, DL385 and DL585 >2x, 2x and 4x Opterons are your meal tickets. > Good stuff there, they've improved the line since I last looked at them. >- Tier-2: Monarch Computer > > Very good pricing, one to consider if I ever get one of my many workplaces to upgrade their servers. I must say that the Opteron CPUs & nForce Professional chipsets are making servers pretty fun these days. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From damien at mc-kenna.com Thu Jul 7 00:13:32 2005 From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Suggestions for how to manage satellite offices? Message-ID: <42CCABEC.6070703@mc-kenna.com> For one of my jobs they're going to be opening a second office. Their current office has a server (aka a desktop machine with a superiority complex) and use a 3rd party for web hosting & email. The server runs Windows 2003 and serves up files, printers & backups for the main office. They use many Windows-only applications and I don't believe are in a position to migrate to Linux (which IMHO would make many things easier). I had originally intended setting up a local mail server (Macallan Mail Server aka MMS) to work as a local access point for email. MMS has a cool feature in that it can fetch email from another host and store it in local mailboxes. With this my idea was to have the public mail server (MX records in the DNS) for the domain be the at the web hosting service, have MMS download the email into local mailboxes which can then be backed up & managed a bit more readily than if they were remote. For people working from home (mainly the owner) I was going to set up a VPN for him to log into to do his work. The second office will need access to the files from the first office and access to email. I'm not really sure how the second office will fit into my original plans above. Does anyone have suggestions on how I could manage the two offices' facilities? A VPN sounds like the obvious choice, but what about bandwidth usage (if the satellite office grows) and redundancy (if the VPN goes down they can't do any work)? Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks. -- Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek. damien@mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 7 08:55:06 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Ready to Play Linux Server Recommendations? In-Reply-To: <42CC964A.5010701@mc-kenna.com> References: <142738.1120692685732.JavaMail.root@wamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <42CC964A.5010701@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1120740906.4857.16.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-07-06 at 22:41 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > I must say that the Opteron CPUs & nForce Professional chipsets are > making servers pretty fun these days. Well, just remember the nForce Pro options (2200, 2200+2050) only give you HyperTransport tunnels to PCIe channels (20, 40), and not PCI- X. The lack of PCIecards (a few NICs, the MegaRAID 320-2E, not much else) right now is going to limit options. So until that changes, it's still ideal to get a system with one or more AMD8131 (or AMD8132) HyperTransport tunnels to PCI-X (2/each). All Tyan boards I've seen, including even the 4x Socket-940, put (1) AMD8131 on CPU #0. Most of the other 2x Socket-940 systems do the same, although the 4x Socket-940 DL585 puts (2) AMD8131 chips, one on each of two processors, and the SunFire V40z puts (3) AMD8131 chips, one on one processor (2 x 100MHz, 1 x 66MHz + on-board peripherals) and two on another (4 x full- speed 133MHz slots). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Jul 7 09:37:15 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:05 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Suggestions for how to manage satellite offices? -- NetGear FVS124G/FVX538? In-Reply-To: <42CCABEC.6070703@mc-kenna.com> References: <42CCABEC.6070703@mc-kenna.com> Message-ID: <1120743435.4857.51.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-07-07 at 00:13 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > They use many Windows-only applications and I don't believe are > in a position to migrate to Linux (which IMHO would make many things > easier). Well, just because they don't run Linux doesn't mean you can't introduce either Freedomware desktop solutions (with some planning/c