From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec  1 04:19:13 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 04:19:13 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Seagate ST650211CF (ST1 5GB CFlash) 1" Hard Drive
Message-ID: <1133428753.5126.7.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

Seagate's 1" hard drive in 50-pin CFlash Type II format, available from
Computer Geeks for $99:  
  http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ST650211CF&cat=FLM  

I picked up one of these for some stuff I'm doing at work.  Sadly
enough, it doesn't work well with some of my XP Pro and XP Embedded
systems.  I tried an assortment of hardware, and it's clear it's more of
an OS support issue -- loading the HP CFlash software for Windows seem
to fix it on some of the hardware.

But I came home and popped the sucker into my $18 Floppy+9-in-1 reader
drive on my Linux system and _bam_!  Not only did a cool looking hard
drive with USB symbol icon labeled "5.0G Removable Media" pop up on my
GNOME 2.8 desktop (Fedora Core 3/x86-64), but an empty window with
"4.6GiB available" as well.

It is a fat32 filesystem (which can be confirmed a number of ways in
Linux -- both GUI and CLI), the device was auto-assigned /dev/sdc (no
partitions -- just one partition).  I can just right click / umount on
the icon on the desktop to safely remove the device (without having to
go through any multiple menus like Windows makes me from the taskbar).
[ And as always, eject/umount from the command-line do the same too. ]


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec  1 11:48:35 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 11:48:35 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Review of new Geforce 6150-based motherboard
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19A2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2626
A review of the Asus A8N-VM CSM, one of the first motherboards to use
nVidia's integrated 6150 chipset.
 
-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec  1 12:49:23 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:49:23 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] 6-pin SSI EEB WS and 6-pin PCIe Power are NOT the same
	(and can destroy hardware!)
Message-ID: <1133459363.5126.33.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

Same on the PCI-Express working group!  This is the _stupidiest_ (and
_most_avoidable_) thing I've ever seen!
  http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/11/6-pin-ssi-eeb-ws-and-6-pin-pcie-power.html   

They should have keyed differently!


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec  1 14:23:54 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 14:23:54 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] 6-pin SSI EEB WS and 6-pin PCIe Power are NOT the
	same(and can destroy hardware!)
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19A6@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Same on the PCI-Express working group!  This is the _stupidest_ (and
> _most_avoidable_) thing I've ever seen!

<smacks forehead>

I wonder if anyone has made something go *boom* because of this?

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec  1 16:34:02 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 13:34:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] 6-pin SSI EEB WS and 6-pin PCIe Power are NOT the
	same(and can destroy hardware!)
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19A6@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051201213402.67597.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> <smacks forehead>
> I wonder if anyone has made something go *boom* because of
> this?

Probably not too many until just recently.  For the most
part, most mainboards that needed the SSI EEB WS connector
were using EPS12V power supplies which had it.

But now that there are these "universal" EPS12V/ATX12V 2.0
power supplies, it is probably damn easy to do!  Especially
as the PCIe connector is becoming commonplace.

Stupid PCI SWG!  They should have known _better_ than to
reuse the exact, same configuration that the SSI was already
using.  I still can't believe they didn't key it
differently?!?!?!

In reality, it's probably not deadly to plug the SSI EEB WS
connector into a PCIe.  It only delivers +3.3V to lines that
want +12V and attempts a +12V to GND.

But going the opposite, a PCIe into the SSI EEB WS, is going
to try to deliver +12V to the +3.3V lines, and utterly blow
the mainboard -- as in the case of the Tyan.




-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec  1 17:39:07 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 17:39:07 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI audio card recommendations?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19B9@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Anyone have any recommendations for a PCI audio card that supports
hardware-accelerated 3d sound and low CPU usage?  Thanks.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec  1 17:39:19 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 17:39:19 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] 6-pin SSI EEB WS and 6-pin PCIe Power are NOT
	thesame(and can destroy hardware!)
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19BA@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> > I wonder if anyone has made something go *boom* because of
> > this?
> 
> Probably not too many until just recently.  For the most
> part, most mainboards that needed the SSI EEB WS connector
> were using EPS12V power supplies which had it.

Care to give a quick explanation of what the SSI EEB WS is for?

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec  1 19:18:34 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:18:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] 6-pin SSI EEB WS and 6-pin PCIe Power are NOT
	thesame(and can destroy hardware!)
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19BA@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051202001834.25725.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Care to give a quick explanation of what the SSI EEB WS is
> for?

If you blog it, they will come ... (i.e., I updated the entry
with such):  
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/11/6-pin-ssi-eeb-ws-and-6-pin-pcie-power.html



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec  1 19:32:54 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:32:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI audio card recommendations? -- SB0350 Audigy 2 ZS
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19B9@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051202003254.72703.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Anyone have any recommendations for a PCI audio card that
> supports hardware-accelerated 3d sound and low CPU usage?
> Thanks.

Continued, personal experience over the last year causes me
to highly recommend the Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS. 
The SB0350 (stock Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS) can be
had for $50 and it's worth every penny IMHO.  I see there is
a new "value" version for SB0400, but I can't attest to how
good it is.

The SB0350 works in Linux perfectly with the Emu10k1 driver,
including _all_ the goodies (including 3D spatial audio).

BTW, I have two of the Platnium versions with the 5.25" bay. 
I actually paid under $100 for both of them after rebate (one
was only $129.99 out-the-door before rebate), both last year
and mid this year.  It's all about timing your purchase ;-).


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From jasonb at edseek.com  Thu Dec  1 21:25:20 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:25:20 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI audio card recommendations? -- SB0350 Audigy 2 ZS
In-Reply-To: <20051202003254.72703.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051202003254.72703.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512012125.20505.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Thursday 01 December 2005 19:32, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> > Anyone have any recommendations for a PCI audio card that
> > supports hardware-accelerated 3d sound and low CPU usage?
> > Thanks.
>
> Continued, personal experience over the last year causes me
> to highly recommend the Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS.
> The SB0350 (stock Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS) can be
> had for $50 and it's worth every penny IMHO.  I see there is
> a new "value" version for SB0400, but I can't attest to how
> good it is.

Good to know.  I might be picking up a sound card to augment my on-board sound 
since it seems somewhat flaky at times.  I was going to use the 2 ZS for 
microphone duties in BF2 and figured an actual gaming card would be best 
suited for that as opposed to my on chipset sound.  I haven't actually tried 
using the on chipset sound, though, so it might work okay too.

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From philb at philb.us  Fri Dec  2 02:20:45 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 02:20:45 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities
Message-ID: <200512020220.45385.philb@philb.us>

http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm
-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Fri Dec  2 09:08:56 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:08:56 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19BE@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

After the shenanigans earlier this year with a dead PCI-Express card,
another one has died on me.  This time I didn't do anything funny with
it at all, I simply turned off the PC last night and this morning it
refused to turn on until I had removed the card (and inserted a POS PCI
video card).  So another RMA on its way to NewEgg :-(  This time the
card was an ATI X700Pro that I got just when the prices on them was
coming down.  Darnit.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Fri Dec  2 09:10:47 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:10:47 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] 6-pin SSI EEB WS and 6-pin PCIe Power are
	NOTthesame(and can destroy hardware!)
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19BF@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> > Care to give a quick explanation of what the SSI EEB WS is
> > for?
> 
> If you blog it, they will come ... (i.e., I updated the entry
> with such):

Thankee kindly sir!

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Fri Dec  2 10:22:40 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 10:22:40 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19C8@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

OK, here's the question: given that power shouldn't be a problem anymore
thanks to the 500W Antec beasty, could it be possible that the
motherboard is killing the cards?  It just seems to strange for it to be
working fine last night and this morning give up the ghost.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec  2 11:54:36 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 08:54:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <200512020220.45385.philb@philb.us>
Message-ID: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Phil Barnett <philb at philb.us> wrote:
> http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm

I've been meaning to suggest this for some time, but I wanted
to wait until I saw a good avenue to do it.  Especially since
your server and your time is not "our bitch" to do with as we
please.

But have we considered setting up a wiki for PC_Support?  I
remember we did previously (still available?) with LEAP?  I
didn't take interest, so I don't know, but now I think we
have enough content that a PC_Support wiki would be ideal.

I know I'd definitely like to take some of my blog entries,
make them more "formal/finished," and put them somewhere --
so a PC_Support wiki would be great!  Especially for letting
others modify them (which they can do little more than
comment on them in my blog).


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec  2 11:59:42 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 08:59:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19BE@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051202165942.86358.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> After the shenanigans earlier this year with a dead
> PCI-Express card, another one has died on me.  This time I
> didn't do anything funny with it at all, I simply turned
off
> the PC last night and this morning it refused to turn on
until
> I had removed the card (and inserted a POS PCI video card).
> So another RMA on its way to NewEgg :-(  This time the
> card was an ATI X700Pro that I got just when the prices on
> them was coming down.  Darnit.

How are you delivering power to it?
That might be the reason more than anything?

I know my GeForce 7800GTX ran with my 300W ATX 2.0 power
supply, but I upgraded to a 500W Seasonic S12 ATX 2.0 with a
PCIe connector because I wanted to ensure adequate power
without any under-voltage as a result of increased current
draw.  Over time, that can really kill electronics.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec  2 12:07:21 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:07:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19C8@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051202170721.45643.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> OK, here's the question: given that power shouldn't be a
> problem anymore thanks to the 500W Antec beasty,

Again, how are you connecting any additional power outside of
the slot?

> could it be possible that the motherboard is killing the
cards?
> It just seems to strange for it to be working fine last
night
> and this morning give up the ghost.

Other than mis-alignment of the 25mils (IIRC?) connections, I
don't know.

PCIe defines a maximum amount of power it can deliver -- at
least on PCIe x16 slots that are designed for video.  But
PCIe may not be as good as AGP / AGP Pro was in this regard.

In fact, the recent PCI WG v. existing SSI specs (which
covered AGP Pro) makes me wonder if this yet another AGP 1.0
type mechnical/power debacle -- someone the new, at the time,
SSI group quickly and independently addressed with AGP Pro
slot for workstations.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From damien at mc-kenna.com  Fri Dec  2 13:03:12 2005
From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 13:03:12 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
In-Reply-To: <20051202165942.86358.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051202165942.86358.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43908C60.1000100@mc-kenna.com>

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> How are you delivering power to it?
> That might be the reason more than anything?
>   
It didn't have a special power connector on it so it was only drawing 
the standard 16x PCI-E power.

Damien


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec  2 14:38:46 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:38:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
In-Reply-To: <43908C60.1000100@mc-kenna.com>
Message-ID: <20051202193846.72123.qmail@web34114.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <damien at mc-kenna.com> wrote:
> It didn't have a special power connector on it so it was
> only drawing the standard 16x PCI-E power.

Yeah, I'm thinking AGP.

PCIe is supposed to provide up to 100-150W, although some of
the GeForce 6600GTs can come very close to 140W.  So maybe it
is the mainboard.

I've also been using GeForce 6800/7800 cards, so the Molex or
PCIe connector has been required -- regardless of PCIe or AGP.

-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Fri Dec  2 15:34:51 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:34:51 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F19DC@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Damien McKenna <damien at mc-kenna.com> wrote:
> > It didn't have a special power connector on it so it was
> > only drawing the standard 16x PCI-E power.
> 
> PCIe is supposed to provide up to 100-150W, although some of
> the GeForce 6600GTs can come very close to 140W.  So maybe it
> is the mainboard.

<grumble>  I think just about all of the <$150 cards use the mobo power.

> I've also been using GeForce 6800/7800 cards, so the Molex or
> PCIe connector has been required -- regardless of PCIe or AGP.

Guess I'll try looking for one with the Molex.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec  2 17:10:10 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 14:10:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT] Extra lower-bowl,
	35-40 yard-line ticket for Conference USA Championship
Message-ID: <20051202221010.80735.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If anyone wants to go, I had a cancellation in my party, so I
have an extra, lower-bowl, 35-40 yard-line ticket (sitting
next to yours rowdy ;-) for the Conference USA Championship
game at noon tomorrow.

Let me know if you're intersted in going.

-- Bryan
   (407) 489-7013  (Mobile)


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From philb at philb.us  Fri Dec  2 21:04:20 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 21:04:20 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512022104.20687.philb@philb.us>

On Friday 02 December 2005 11:54 am, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Phil Barnett <philb at philb.us> wrote:
> > http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm
>
> I've been meaning to suggest this for some time, but I wanted
> to wait until I saw a good avenue to do it.  Especially since
> your server and your time is not "our bitch" to do with as we
> please.
>
> But have we considered setting up a wiki for PC_Support?  I
> remember we did previously (still available?) with LEAP?  I
> didn't take interest, so I don't know, but now I think we
> have enough content that a PC_Support wiki would be ideal.
>
> I know I'd definitely like to take some of my blog entries,
> make them more "formal/finished," and put them somewhere --
> so a PC_Support wiki would be great!  Especially for letting
> others modify them (which they can do little more than
> comment on them in my blog).

Stay tuned for further details. I'll be adding some features to Taz4 in the 
very near future.

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From damien at mc-kenna.com  Tue Dec  6 07:57:00 2005
From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 07:57:00 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows qns: dynamic disks reimage,
	dynamic software RAID?
Message-ID: <43958A9C.6080505@mc-kenna.com>

I've got two quick Windows (XP) questions for the experts:

* Is it possible to create a dynamic disc on a clean drive then copy an 
existing partition onto it?

* Is it possible to add mirroring to an existing drive or does it have 
to be set up when the drive is first partitioned?

Thanks.

-- 
Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek.
damien at mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/



From damien at mc-kenna.com  Wed Dec  7 01:40:59 2005
From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 01:40:59 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Anandtech vs Antec & Tyan
Message-ID: <439683FB.3020901@mc-kenna.com>

http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=25402

-- 
Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek.
damien at mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/



From philb at philb.us  Wed Dec  7 02:11:13 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 02:11:13 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512070211.13999.philb@philb.us>

On Friday 02 December 2005 11:54 am, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Phil Barnett <philb at philb.us> wrote:
> > http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm
>
> I've been meaning to suggest this for some time, but I wanted
> to wait until I saw a good avenue to do it.  Especially since
> your server and your time is not "our bitch" to do with as we
> please.
>
> But have we considered setting up a wiki for PC_Support?  I
> remember we did previously (still available?) with LEAP?  I
> didn't take interest, so I don't know, but now I think we
> have enough content that a PC_Support wiki would be ideal.
>
> I know I'd definitely like to take some of my blog entries,
> make them more "formal/finished," and put them somewhere --
> so a PC_Support wiki would be great!  Especially for letting
> others modify them (which they can do little more than
> comment on them in my blog).

Ok, I can offer the following software.

Which would you prefer? And on what domain?

CMS

Mambo
Postnuke
Wiki

Blogging

b2evolution
phpbb (hard to say if this is more blog or CMS)
plog

Other

openbiblio
wordpress

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Wed Dec  7 09:06:32 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 09:06:32 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities --
	PC_Supportwiki?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A4A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

A little bit of filler from someone who has wasted way too much time on
this junk in the past.

> CMS
> 
> Mambo
> Postnuke

There are a ton of *nuke clones to choose from.

> Wiki

Which wiki?  There's phpWiki, Twiki, TikiWiki, PmWiki, DokuWiki, Wikka
Wakka Wiki, etc.

> Blogging
> b2evolution
> plog

> phpbb (hard to say if this is more blog or CMS)

phpBB is a bulletin board app.

> Other
> openbiblio

> wordpress

Wordpress is a blog.

You also forgot some good ones:
- MediaWiki (used to run wikipedia.org)
- Instiki
- Drupal
- eZ Publish

You can test a whole bunch of them at this great site:
http://www.opensourcecms.com/

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Wed Dec  7 12:27:57 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:27:57 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express SATA RAID cards
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A5A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Some PCI-Express SATA RAID cards new to the market.  Unfortunately I
only have two PCI-E x2 slots, no x4's, so I can't use them :-\  Too bad
the second PCI-E x16 can't be made to run as a regular x8 or x4 slot
when not in SLI mode.


http://www.cwol.com/serial-ata/rocketraid-2320-pci-express.htm

HighPoint RocketRAID 2320 PCI Express SATA II RAID Host Controller 

 * PCI Express x4 Card 
 * SATA II and SATA I hard drive support 
 * Up to 300MB/s for each SATA II drive port 
 * Supports RAID level 0, 1, 5, 10 and JBOD 
 * Online Capacity Expansion and Online RAID Level Migration (OCE/ORLM) 
 * Native Command Queuing (NCQ) 
 * SAF-TE enclosure management 
 * Hard drive activity and Failed LED support 
 * Staggered drive spin-up support 
 * Hot swap and hot spare 
 * Write-through and write-back cache support 
 * Quick and Background initialization for quick RAID configuration 
 * Online array roaming 
 * BIOS booting support (INT13) 
 * Single RAID Cross Adapter Support 
 * 64bit LBA for over 2TB support 
 * Automatic RAID rebuild of failed drive 
 * S.M.A.R.T drive monitoring for status and reliability 
 * Browser-based RAID management software 
 * Command Line Interface (CLI) 
 * SMTP for email notification 
 * Operating system support for Windows, Windows x64 Editions, Linux
(open source), FreeBSD (open source) and Mac OS X 


http://www.topmicrousa.com/arc-1220.html

Areca ARC-1220 8 ports PCI-Express to SATA-II RAID 6 Adapters

Areca services customers with a complete spectrum of SATA-II RAID
adapters that support 4, 8 or 16 SATA-II devices on a single host
adapter with today maximum I/O performance PCI bus interface, PCI-X and
PCI-Express. Unparalleled Performance The SATA-II RAID controllers raise
the standard to higher performance levels with several enhancements
including Intel high-performance I/O Processor (500 MHz), a new DDR
memory architecture (DDR333) and high performance PCI-Express bus
interconnection. Unsurpassed Data Availability The SATA-II RAID adapters
with extreme performance ASIC RAID 6 engine installed provide the
highest RAID 6 feature to and delivers RAID 5 Tekram services customers
with a complete spectrum of SATA-II RAID adapters that support 4, 8 or
16 SATA-II devices on a single host adapter with today maximum I/O
performance PCI bus interface, PCI-X and PCI-Express.



-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec  7 17:50:16 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 14:50:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express SATA RAID cards -- HPT=FRAID?
	Areca=X-Scale
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A5A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051207225016.77401.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Some PCI-Express SATA RAID cards new to the market. 
> Unfortunately I only have two PCI-E x2 slots, no x4's,
> so I can't use them :-\

You sure your slots are PCIe x2?  Or x1?

You _can_ use a PCIe x4 in a PCIe x1 slot, it's just going to
be a bottleneck.

> Too bad the second PCI-E x16 can't be made to run as a
> regular x8 or x4 slot when not in SLI mode.

Some PCIe x16 slots become PCIe x1 slots when not in SLI
mode.

Furthermore, have you tried putting it in SLI mode so x8
channels  are redirected?

>
http://www.cwol.com/serial-ata/rocketraid-2320-pci-express.htm
> HighPoint RocketRAID 2320 PCI Express SATA II RAID Host
> Controller 

Know that RAIDCore (now Broadcom) made *F*RAID PCI-X cards
that cost $200+.  You were paying for the intelligent
software, which _did_ integrate into Linux's LVM.  They had
massive overhead in RAID-5, especially rebuilds (like 5x as
slow as a 3Ware Escalade 9500S).  LSI Logic is getting into
this "Software RAID as a profit model" following Broadcom's
lead.

This is _great_ for dedicated storage subsystems.  But it is
_not_ great for end-servers, because all that redundant I/O
traffic to do the RAID falls on the CPU-memory-I/O
interconnect.

I'm trying to see if it's one of the first cards to use the
new Broadcom BCM8603.  That actually has on-board hardware
RAID, SAS/SATA support, and supports up to 768MB DRAM buffer.
 But I don't think it is.

But I think it's one of the Broadcom BCM4000/5000 series, and
still very much FRAID.  No intelligence, no SRAM or DRAM
other than the basic SRAM used for the nominal SATA (think in
the low KiBs ;-).  I think that's what this card is -- an
_expensive_ *F*RAID card with software under  license from
Broadcom or LSI Logic.

HPT has _never_ produced a non-FRAID card.  They are a 100%
FRAID product line.

> Areca ARC-1220 8 ports PCI-Express to SATA-II RAID 6
> Adapters

Now the Arecas are Intel IOP33x X-Scale (superscalar ARM)
based and kick serious butt.  The work most excellently in
Linux.  Well worth the price!



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From philb at philb.us  Wed Dec  7 22:46:54 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 22:46:54 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities --
	PC_Supportwiki?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A4A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A4A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <200512072246.54594.philb@philb.us>

On Wednesday 07 December 2005 09:06 am, Damien McKenna wrote:
> A little bit of filler from someone who has wasted way too much time on
> this junk in the past.
>
> > CMS
> >
> > Mambo
> > Postnuke
>
> There are a ton of *nuke clones to choose from.
>
> > Wiki
>
> Which wiki?  There's phpWiki, Twiki, TikiWiki, PmWiki, DokuWiki, Wikka
> Wakka Wiki, etc.
>
> > Blogging
> > b2evolution
> > plog
> >
> > phpbb (hard to say if this is more blog or CMS)
>
> phpBB is a bulletin board app.
>
> > Other
> > openbiblio
> >
> > wordpress
>
> Wordpress is a blog.
>
> You also forgot some good ones:
> - MediaWiki (used to run wikipedia.org)
> - Instiki
> - Drupal
> - eZ Publish
>
> You can test a whole bunch of them at this great site:
> http://www.opensourcecms.com/

The packages I'm offering are part of the Application Vault that LEAP 
purchased and applied to our Plesk server. It makes installing an entire 
range of preconfigured applications a button push away from installing on any 
site on the server.

So I went through the list and listed the most likely candidates.

The Wiki is phpWiki. The rest of the packages are the specific ones that Plesk 
now supports through the application addon license.

I'm really not interested in trying to make other applications work since I 
don't have time to hack on it.

This makes the applications I mentioned above install, guaranteed to work 
already set up correctly for my server in less than two minutes. There are 
others that I didn't mention because I didn't think they were applicable, 
like OSCommerce and others.

If you are interested in the entire list, you can go to the Plesk site. I'd 
guess there's a listing there on which applications are in the Application 
Vault.

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec  7 22:46:21 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 19:46:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] How badis doeth thy GeForce FX sucketh?  Yea,
	'dat badis ...
Message-ID: <20051208034621.87365.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Tom's Hardware Guide put up their latest VGA Charts VIII a
few days ago.  This one is pretty complete, and the Quake 4
benchmarks were not surprising:  
 
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/02/vga_charts_viii/page11.html
 

Yes, that is the "high-end" GeForce FX 5900 128MB that is
_losing_ to a $50-60 GeForce 6200 TC 256MB (64MB on-card). 
You have to jack the card up to 1024x768 at 4x Full Screen
Anti-Aliasing (FSAA), 8x Anti-isotropic Filtering (AF) and
ultra-quality for the 128MB on the GeForce FX 5900 to
overtake the only 64MB on-card in the GeForce 6200 TC 256MB.

Damn, that's sad!

Now consider the GeForce FX5800/5900 are a far better GPU
design with a much higher clock than the FX5700, of which the
common FX5700"LE" is 40% slower clock-wise, and the GeForce
FX5700 is still crapload better than the FX5200/5500
ultra-bottom feeder that can't even run much.

Yeah, that's the crap Best Buy and CompUSA are still trying
to sell you!

Now I'd _really_ like to see how the on-chipset GeForce
6100/6150 compares to a GeForce FX 5500 or even a 5700 LE. 
I'm sure the GeForce 6100 would still beat them handily,
which makes you wonder if you're not better off buying a new
GeForce 6100 mainboard for $55 and entry-level Sempron 64
2800+ CPU for $60 instead of buying a GeForce Fsck'ing
Xcrewed (FX) 5500 or 5700LE for a few bucks less.  @-ppp



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec  8 09:25:33 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 09:25:33 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express SATA RAID cards --
	HPT=FRAID?Areca=X-Scale
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A6F@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> > Some PCI-Express SATA RAID cards new to the market. 
> > Unfortunately I only have two PCI-E x2 slots, no x4's,
> > so I can't use them :-\
> 
> You sure your slots are PCIe x2?  Or x1?

Typo, they're x1.

> You _can_ use a PCIe x4 in a PCIe x1 slot, it's just going to
> be a bottleneck.

Ah, cool, didn't know that.

> > Too bad the second PCI-E x16 can't be made to run as a
> > regular x8 or x4 slot when not in SLI mode.
> 
> Some PCIe x16 slots become PCIe x1 slots when not in SLI
> mode.

I need to check my manual again.

> Furthermore, have you tried putting it in SLI mode so x8
> channels  are redirected?

Nopers.  Then again, I don't have a PCI-E card anyway (besides the video
card, that was RMA'd).

> Know that RAIDCore (now Broadcom) made *F*RAID PCI-X cards
> that cost $200+.  You were paying for the intelligent
> software, which _did_ integrate into Linux's LVM.

Urk, forget that.  Might as well just get a $20 card and use the Windows
software.

> I'm trying to see if it's one of the first cards to use the
> new Broadcom BCM8603.  That actually has on-board hardware
> RAID, SAS/SATA support, and supports up to 768MB DRAM buffer.
>  But I don't think it is.

None of the PDFs or anything mention what chip it is, which kinda sucks.

> > Areca ARC-1220 8 ports PCI-Express to SATA-II RAID 6
> > Adapters
> 
> Now the Arecas are Intel IOP33x X-Scale (superscalar ARM)
> based and kick serious butt.  The work most excellently in
> Linux.  Well worth the price!

I'll keep my wye on them then.

Thanks for the details, Bryan.

Damien


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec  8 12:06:33 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:06:33 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows qns: dynamic disks reimage, dynamic
	software RAID?
In-Reply-To: <43958A9C.6080505@mc-kenna.com>
References: <43958A9C.6080505@mc-kenna.com>
Message-ID: <1134061593.4915.7.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Tue, 2005-12-06 at 07:57 -0500, Damien McKenna wrote:
> I've got two quick Windows (XP) questions for the experts:
> * Is it possible to create a dynamic disc on a clean drive then copy an 
> existing partition onto it?

Er, maybe.  If the geometry matches, you might be able to use dd in
Linux to do such.  Linux kernels can read LDM Disk Labels.

Otherwise, a 3rd party disk manager might be able to.

It gets interesting because LDM disk labels store extra info outside the
partition.

> * Is it possible to add mirroring to an existing drive or does it have 
> to be set up when the drive is first partitioned?

I think if it's already a LDM Disk Label, you can create a mirror set
from a standalone partition.  Don't quote me.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec  8 12:09:52 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 12:09:52 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express SATA RAID cards --
	HPT=FRAID?Areca=X-Scale
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A6F@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A6F@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <1134061793.4915.12.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Thu, 2005-12-08 at 09:25 -0500, Damien McKenna wrote:
> Typo, they're x1.
> Ah, cool, didn't know that.

You can use any larger PCI x# card in any lower PCI x# card.  The
problem is if it doesn't physically fit.  Most cards will fit in a PCI
x1 slot.  But beyond that, they typically won't.

> I need to check my manual again.

Some are disabled, some become PCIe x2 or x4, but most become PCIe x1.

> Nopers.  Then again, I don't have a PCI-E card anyway (besides the video
> card, that was RMA'd).

Oh, then you should be able to use the PCIe x16 slot directly.  About
the only different for video slots is that they can deliver extra power
-- IIRC (don't quote me).

> Urk, forget that.  Might as well just get a $20 card and use the Windows
> software.

Again, I haven't verified, but the card looked rather simplistic (no
RAM).

> None of the PDFs or anything mention what chip it is, which kinda sucks.

Yeah, I know.  So I can't give you an exact answer.

They claim Linux support, but both Broadcom RAIDCore and, more recently,
LSI Logic now sell a sprawling set of software RAID functions to OEMs.

> I'll keep my wye on them then.
> Thanks for the details, Bryan.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec  8 12:11:32 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:11:32 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PC locking up after installing new memory
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A84@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Here's the story.  Have a HP 1.3ghz Celery PC running Windows XP Home
(SP2) that had 128mb of RAM in it.  I installed 2x 256mb PC133 sticks in
place of the one 128mb stick (unsure what speed) and since then it
randomly locks up.  It's a lightly used machine, nothing more than AOL 9
and MSWord (with Symantec Corporate Antivirus 8 in the background) so it
isn't like the system is overheating from playing Quake42.

The problem is that three times in the past three days it has just
halted - the mouse freezes and within a moment the screen goes black.
One time it halted when the owner was in MSWord, the other two times in
AOL writing an email.

Apparently the PC is only compatible with certain types of 256mb strips,
two sided ones that have lower capacity chips, so we made certain to
order the type that the memory manufacturer said were compatible
(Corsair CMSS256MB-133), but obviously this may still be the problem.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I could try?  I'm going over
later to do a MemTest86 test on it, I'll see if it can uncover anything.

Thanks.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec  8 13:06:42 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:06:42 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows qns: dynamic disks reimage,
	dynamic software RAID?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A92@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Kind of moot questions, Windows XP Home supports neither dynamic discs
nor software RAID.  Now to work out what to do to get RAID working
without buying XP Pro.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From glaiacona at aikencountysc.gov  Thu Dec  8 13:27:01 2005
From: glaiacona at aikencountysc.gov (George Laiacona)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:27:01 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PC locking up after installing new memory
Message-ID: <s39834c2.062@mail.aikencountysc.gov>

Probably the only thing left to try is get a recommendation for RAM from the manufacturer, whether that be the PC maker or Motherboard manufacturer. Sometimes, in my experience, the RAM manufacturer and PC Maker differ on their opinion of what RAM to use. More often than not, the memory will cost more (go figure) from the PC Maker, but it will work.

Sometimes you get shipped a bad stick. Has happened to me several times, though considering just how much RAM has passed through my hands that's a very rare occurrance.

There's a really, really small chance, however, that something else failed, such as a HDD is going bad, that just happens to coincide with your RAM upgrade. Again, a very tiny possibility, but there.



George A. Laiacona III
Systems Manager
Aiken County Government
803 642 1594

>>> dmckenna at thelimucompany.com 12/08/05 12:11 PM >>>
Here's the story.  Have a HP 1.3ghz Celery PC running Windows XP Home
(SP2) that had 128mb of RAM in it.  I installed 2x 256mb PC133 sticks in
place of the one 128mb stick (unsure what speed) and since then it
randomly locks up.  It's a lightly used machine, nothing more than AOL 9
and MSWord (with Symantec Corporate Antivirus 8 in the background) so it
isn't like the system is overheating from playing Quake42.

The problem is that three times in the past three days it has just
halted - the mouse freezes and within a moment the screen goes black.
One time it halted when the owner was in MSWord, the other two times in
AOL writing an email.

Apparently the PC is only compatible with certain types of 256mb strips,
two sided ones that have lower capacity chips, so we made certain to
order the type that the memory manufacturer said were compatible
(Corsair CMSS256MB-133), but obviously this may still be the problem.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I could try?  I'm going over
later to do a MemTest86 test on it, I'll see if it can uncover anything.

Thanks.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com 
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>

_______________________________________________
Pc_support mailing list
Pc_support at matrixlist.com 
http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support



From glaiacona at aikencountysc.gov  Thu Dec  8 14:07:19 2005
From: glaiacona at aikencountysc.gov (George Laiacona)
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:07:19 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows qns: dynamic disks reimage, dynamic
	software RAID?
Message-ID: <s3983e23.095@mail.aikencountysc.gov>

Going to have to be a hardware RAID. Nothing I have found will tell me how to RAID XP otherwise. I'm guessing you'll have similar results.

George.

>>> dmckenna at thelimucompany.com 12/08/05 1:06 PM >>>
Kind of moot questions, Windows XP Home supports neither dynamic discs
nor software RAID.  Now to work out what to do to get RAID working
without buying XP Pro.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com 
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>

_______________________________________________
Pc_support mailing list
Pc_support at matrixlist.com 
http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec  8 15:11:03 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 15:11:03 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PC locking up after installing new memory
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A9F@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Thanks for the thoughts, George.  I'm starting to think it *is* a memory
timing issue.  While Corsair's site says that PC133 is ok, Kingston's
recommends a specific PC100 stick to use instead.  I'm going to do a
MemTest later to see if that causes any problems, I've contacted Corsair
to see what they have to say for themselves and I'm intending contacting
ZZF, but most likely at this point we'll RMA it.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec  8 16:50:17 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:50:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PC locking up after installing new memory
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1A9F@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051208215017.18781.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the thoughts, George.  I'm starting to think it
> *is* a memory timing issue.  While Corsair's site says that
> PC133 is ok, Kingston's recommends a specific PC100 stick
to
> use instead.

Might be more of a chipset support issue of newer memory
technology, and not signaling.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From jasonb at edseek.com  Thu Dec  8 17:31:53 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:31:53 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: 3DM and Intel Chipsets with PCI-X/64 -- WAS:
	3ware RAID controller scripts
In-Reply-To: <1133254740.5023.486.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <ac8199760511271810j3eac8295o6a6dbd1fa640a4b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<ac8199760511280017x783c2abem19157a618ce2fec1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1133254740.5023.486.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <200512081731.53586.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Tuesday 29 November 2005 03:59, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
<snip>
> If cost is really an issue, consider either an older Pentium III
> mainboard with a ServerWorks ServerSet III mainboard, or an older
> (possibly used) Socket-603 P4-Xeon mainboard with a ServerWorks GC-SL
> chipset if you can find one cheap (most new are $350-600!).  I
> personally have a ServerWorks ServerSet IIILE at home and my 3Ware card
> is in a 64-bit PCI slot (although the slot is capable of 64-bit @ 66MHz,
> the card is an older 3Ware that runs 64-bit @ 33MHz).

I did the same on your advice and the card screams in a 64-bit @ 33MHz.  I am 
very pleased with it over operation on an old Socket A board in a 32-bit @ 
33MHz slot on what was essentially a low end desktop mainboard.

I find an old ServerWorks IIILE board is plenty for a small network with a 
couple of users, at least.  With one of those ServerWorks III HE-SL (?) 
boards I imagine you could do gigabit, too, on a dedicated channel, and still 
be affordable.

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec  8 17:35:24 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:35:24 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: 3DM and Intel Chipsets with PCI-X/64 -- WAS:
	3wareRAID controller scripts
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1AB2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

On a related note:

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=9550sx4lp

A review of the 3Ware 9550SX-4LP PCI-X card which compares it to several
others, including Areca's PCI-E card.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec  8 20:55:23 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 17:55:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: 3DM and Intel Chipsets with PCI-X/64 -- WAS:
	3wareRAID controller scripts
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1AB2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051209015523.84619.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> On a related note:
> http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=9550sx4lp
> A review of the 3Ware 9550SX-4LP PCI-X card which compares
> it to several others, including Areca's PCI-E card.

Yeah, seems like 3Ware/AMCC is still working out the bugs in
their firmware -- the card was almost brand new back when the
September review hit.  It's good to know that the 3Ware
9550SX controllers support PCIe, so we should see such a card
in the future.

Areca uses the Intel IOP331 (PCI-X) and IOP332 (built-in
PCI-X to PCIe bridge) for its products.  I wonder where they
get their firmware from (Broadcom? LSI? Intel? Their own?). 
Anyhoo, it's hard to compete with that XScale at RAID-5.

On a related note, did you see the earlier article comparing
hardware v. southbridge?  Look at the absolute _crap_ the
Intel ICH7R and nVidia MCP-04 southbridge RAID-5 is at write
speeds (even worse than the others in 32-bit at 33MHz PCI
slots):  
 
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=raid505&page=9
 

It's interesting to note that the Broadcom 4852, which is
largely a host (software) RAID solution, is well designed
enough at the integrated SATA controller to perform well
enough.  But I sure wish they'd get their new 8-channel
SAS/SATA RAID BCM8603 chips in products soon.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From philb at philb.us  Thu Dec  8 22:55:35 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 22:55:35 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <200512070211.13999.philb@philb.us>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200512070211.13999.philb@philb.us>
Message-ID: <200512082255.35883.philb@philb.us>

On Wednesday 07 December 2005 02:11 am, Phil Barnett wrote:

> Ok, I can offer the following software.
>
> Which would you prefer? And on what domain?
>
> CMS
>
> Mambo
> Postnuke
> Wiki
>
> Blogging
>
> b2evolution
> phpbb (hard to say if this is more blog or CMS)
> plog
>
> Other
>
> openbiblio
> wordpress

I ask again. Bryan, do you want any of these installed, and if so, on which 
domain?

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec  9 04:17:37 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 04:17:37 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <200512082255.35883.philb@philb.us>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200512070211.13999.philb@philb.us> <200512082255.35883.philb@philb.us>
Message-ID: <1134119857.4899.2.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Thu, 2005-12-08 at 22:55 -0500, Phil Barnett wrote:
> I ask again.
> Bryan, do you want any of these installed, and if so,
> on which domain?

Oh, I didn't note you were asking.  I though you'all were still
discussing what the options are, what would be feasible for you to do,
etc...  I would go with what you are familiar with.

I really just think a wiki for any PC_Support/LEAP member usage would
do.  I don't want you to have to put in a lot of time on this, just
something that allows multiple people to collaborate.  Just one on the
Matrixlist.COM domain for all would do.

I leave it up to you, but don't put a lot of time into it.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From philb at philb.us  Fri Dec  9 08:27:38 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 08:27:38 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <1134119857.4899.2.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200512082255.35883.philb@philb.us>
	<1134119857.4899.2.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <200512090827.38658.philb@philb.us>

On Friday 09 December 2005 04:17 am, Bryan J. Smith wrote:

> I leave it up to you, but don't put a lot of time into it.

All of them cost me the same amount of time. One Click.

It's more a matter of what you want.

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec  9 16:37:11 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 13:37:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Retail SB Audigy 2 ZS for $82 - $40 rebate = $42
Message-ID: <20051209213711.58770.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Although you can get bulk OEM/card-only SB Audigy 2 ZS cards
for $50-60, Zip-Zoom-Fly has the retail box with all the
software/goodies for $81.99 - $40 rebate = $41.99 after
rebate:  
 
http://dealnews.com/deals/Sound-Blaster-Audigy-2-ZS-Sound-Card-for-42-shipped-after-rebate/103288.html
 

Just remembered someone was asking about a sound card not too
long ago.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Fri Dec  9 17:30:18 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:30:18 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Retail SB Audigy 2 ZS for $82 - $40 rebate = $42
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1AE6@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Although you can get bulk OEM/card-only SB Audigy 2 ZS cards
> for $50-60, Zip-Zoom-Fly has the retail box with all the
> software/goodies for $81.99 - $40 rebate = $41.99 after
> rebate:

Thanks!

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From jasonb at edseek.com  Fri Dec  9 19:02:43 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 19:02:43 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Retail SB Audigy 2 ZS for $82 - $40 rebate = $42
In-Reply-To: <20051209213711.58770.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051209213711.58770.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512091902.43285.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Friday 09 December 2005 16:37, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
<snip>
>
> Just remembered someone was asking about a sound card not too
> long ago.

omg don't make me do it... ;)  Took me a month to stop playing BF2 after you 
posted a link to it here...

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec  9 20:25:58 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 17:25:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Retail SB Audigy 2 ZS for $82 - $40 rebate = $42
In-Reply-To: <200512091902.43285.jasonb@edseek.com>
Message-ID: <20051210012558.17511.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jason Boxman <jasonb at edseek.com> wrote:
> omg don't make me do it... ;)  Took me a month to stop
> playing BF2 after you posted a link to it here...

I sure wish I had the time!

Heck, a few guys over on the CentOS list are trying to get me
to join their UT2004 clan.  I just don't have time.

I've played BF2 maybe 10 hours total -- and haven't played
any games in the last month or so!

Yeah, that GeForce 7800GTX just sits in my system as a
glorified 2D video card.  Oh the waste!

All the meanwhile "Scroll" could use it instead of that
measty 6600GT.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From jasonb at edseek.com  Fri Dec  9 21:53:36 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 21:53:36 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Retail SB Audigy 2 ZS for $82 - $40 rebate = $42
In-Reply-To: <20051210012558.17511.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051210012558.17511.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512092153.36854.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Friday 09 December 2005 20:25, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
<snip>
> All the meanwhile "Scroll" could use it instead of that
> measty 6600GT.

laff.  You're just lucky you haven't had that arse kowned. ;) [knife owned]

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From m9u35g at gmail.com  Fri Dec  9 22:04:03 2005
From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes)
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 22:04:03 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <200512090827.38658.philb@philb.us>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200512082255.35883.philb@philb.us>
	<1134119857.4899.2.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
	<200512090827.38658.philb@philb.us>
Message-ID: <46f680d0512091904l28403a6pcdf631c57db099be@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/9/05, Phil Barnett <philb at philb.us> wrote:
> On Friday 09 December 2005 04:17 am, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
>
> > I leave it up to you, but don't put a lot of time into it.
>
> All of them cost me the same amount of time. One Click.

I've heard good things about Mambo. (My preference is plone, but I'm
guessing Plesk doesn't have that).

--
Justin Keyes


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sat Dec 10 07:48:08 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 07:48:08 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <46f680d0512091904l28403a6pcdf631c57db099be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200512082255.35883.philb@philb.us>
	<1134119857.4899.2.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
	<200512090827.38658.philb@philb.us>
	<46f680d0512091904l28403a6pcdf631c57db099be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1134218888.5853.108.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 22:04 -0500, Justin M. Keyes wrote:
> I've heard good things about Mambo. (My preference is plone, but I'm
> guessing Plesk doesn't have that).

I'm too ignorant to recommend anything.
Whatever goes on, I'll learn it.

And I won't be saying, "Oh, we should have gone Y because it has this
feature that our X doesn't" after-the-fact.

I don't second-guess charity.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From philb at philb.us  Sat Dec 10 18:33:52 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 18:33:52 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <1134218888.5853.108.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46f680d0512091904l28403a6pcdf631c57db099be@mail.gmail.com>
	<1134218888.5853.108.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <200512101833.52459.philb@philb.us>

On Saturday 10 December 2005 07:48 am, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-12-09 at 22:04 -0500, Justin M. Keyes wrote:
> > I've heard good things about Mambo. (My preference is plone, but I'm
> > guessing Plesk doesn't have that).
>
> I'm too ignorant to recommend anything.
> Whatever goes on, I'll learn it.
>
> And I won't be saying, "Oh, we should have gone Y because it has this
> feature that our X doesn't" after-the-fact.
>
> I don't second-guess charity.

Ok, then. Do you want a blogging too, a wiki or a CMS?

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sat Dec 10 20:06:35 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 20:06:35 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <200512101833.52459.philb@philb.us>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46f680d0512091904l28403a6pcdf631c57db099be@mail.gmail.com>
	<1134218888.5853.108.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
	<200512101833.52459.philb@philb.us>
Message-ID: <1134263195.5853.127.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Sat, 2005-12-10 at 18:33 -0500, Phil Barnett wrote:
> Ok, then. Do you want a blogging too, a wiki or a CMS?

Most of us already have our own blogs, so that's redundant.

Not sure where a CMS or Wiki might be a better fit, but in my limited
understanding, I think a Wiki would be more appropriate.  IMHO, I don't
think we need any strict CMS/delegation control -- just a site free-for-
all for everyone, after they are logged in (and verified not to be just
another Joe defacer).  So I assume a Wiki will do.

Again, don't go through a lot of trouble.  If this is something
easy/cheap to setup, then great.  If not, forget I suggested it.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From jasonb at edseek.com  Sat Dec 10 21:36:23 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 21:36:23 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
Message-ID: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>

I just love this.  Apparently my Biostar has crap on board sound or the driver 
just stucks.  In either Firefox or IE, rendering a page often results in my 
2.x version of WinAMP skipping to the next song.  Yes, that's right, it 
skips.

That's about the strangest thing I have ever seen.  It _only_ happens when 
browsing the Web so far.

I guess I should've bought that SB card linked earlier.  Maybe I still can.

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From m9u35g at gmail.com  Sat Dec 10 21:49:46 2005
From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 21:49:46 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] The 46 Best-ever Freeware Utilities -- PC_Support
	wiki?
In-Reply-To: <1134263195.5853.127.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <20051202165436.24479.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<46f680d0512091904l28403a6pcdf631c57db099be@mail.gmail.com>
	<1134218888.5853.108.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
	<200512101833.52459.philb@philb.us>
	<1134263195.5853.127.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <46f680d0512101849r2591dd49x73e26a6dee45a25@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/10/05, Bryan J. Smith <b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote:

> understanding, I think a Wiki would be more appropriate.  IMHO, I don't
> think we need any strict CMS/delegation control -- just a site free-for-
> all for everyone, after they are logged in (and verified not to be just
> another Joe defacer).  So I assume a Wiki will do.

I agree, a wiki would be best for our purposes. A mailing list is like
a wiki without diff technology.


--
Justin Keyes


From wam at HiWAAY.net  Sun Dec 11 08:36:21 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:36:21 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] Oddball TAR (1) behavior ....
Message-ID: <439C2B55.9030405@HiWAAY.net>


.... I have several SGI Octanes on my LAN, along w/ 2 Linux PC's & 1 
Win2K Box. 1 of the Linux boxen (2.4 GHz P4, 2 GB RAM, SuSE 9.2, all 
stock) has a largish HDD (160 GB Samsung EIDE 100 HDD, Reiserfs (3.6), 1 
big partition) which I use to back up several of the other machines by 
creating tarballs across my LAN. I have been having problems with that 
process for a couple of weeks, which I *think* I have traced to an 
obscure error (?) message during the process. That message follows:

    .
    .
    .
    .

-rw------- wam/users   1478527 2004-12-28 11:41:42 
test/OUTPUT.MachNoNewLU.2400P4a.gz
tar: test/OUTPUT.MachNoNewLU.2400P4a.gz: File shrank by 479103 bytes; 
padding with zeros

    .
    .
    .
    .

A few dozen entries later, the tar process error-exits with the following:


tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors


The tar process is executing on the Linux box, which has CD (1) 'ed to 
the other box (an SGI Octane, IRIX 6.5.20f) for the backup. The Octane's 
partition is accessed by automount over NFS V3 (both SGI & Linux box) by 
the Linux box. This error seems to cause the Linux box to hang & 
sometimes crash (several times / month). Besides the Rube Goldberg-ish 
nature of this whole process, are there any other known problems w/ 
interactions of tar/NFS/FS-differences which could be causing me 
problems here ? TIA

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sun Dec 11 11:47:50 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:47:50 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
In-Reply-To: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
References: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
Message-ID: <1134319670.4895.0.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Sat, 2005-12-10 at 21:36 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
> I just love this.  Apparently my Biostar has crap on board sound or the driver 
> just stucks.

High CPU utilization.  Yeah, my nForce4 is the same, it's a Realtek
ALC65x I believe.  The newer 88x is supposed to be much better.

> In either Firefox or IE, rendering a page often results in my 
> 2.x version of WinAMP skipping to the next song.  Yes, that's right, it 
> skips.

Try turning off all 3D audio settings.

> That's about the strangest thing I have ever seen.  It _only_ happens when 
> browsing the Web so far.
> I guess I should've bought that SB card linked earlier.  Maybe I still can.

I finally went back to one and I'm very glad I did.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From m9u35g at gmail.com  Sun Dec 11 14:25:50 2005
From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:25:50 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
In-Reply-To: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
References: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
Message-ID: <46f680d0512111125q2e8c8478ia82e95c7db88797d@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/10/05, Jason Boxman <jasonb at edseek.com> wrote:
> I just love this.  Apparently my Biostar has crap on board sound or the driver
> just stucks.  In either Firefox or IE, rendering a page often results in my
> 2.x version of WinAMP skipping to the next song.  Yes, that's right, it
> skips.
>
> That's about the strangest thing I have ever seen.  It _only_ happens when
> browsing the Web so far.
>
> I guess I should've bought that SB card linked earlier.  Maybe I still can.

I've read a lot of bad reviews about Biostar on newegg.com, I'm
beginning to think I should avoid them...

--
Justin Keyes


From wam at hiwaay.net  Sun Dec 11 15:20:26 2005
From: wam at hiwaay.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:20:26 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
In-Reply-To: <46f680d0512111125q2e8c8478ia82e95c7db88797d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<46f680d0512111125q2e8c8478ia82e95c7db88797d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <439C8A0A.9010507@HiWAAY.net>

Justin M. Keyes wrote:

>On 12/10/05, Jason Boxman <jasonb at edseek.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I just love this.  Apparently my Biostar has crap on board sound or the driver
>>just stucks.  In either Firefox or IE, rendering a page often results in my
>>2.x version of WinAMP skipping to the next song.  Yes, that's right, it
>>skips.
>>
>>That's about the strangest thing I have ever seen.  It _only_ happens when
>>browsing the Web so far.
>>
>>I guess I should've bought that SB card linked earlier.  Maybe I still can.
>>    
>>
>
>I've read a lot of bad reviews about Biostar on newegg.com, I'm
>beginning to think I should avoid them...
>  
>

I 2nd the motion on Biostar. I bought 1 last ~March, NewEgg, built a 2.4 
GHz P4 Linux box, had various seemingly random stability problems. Tried 
Memtest on the RAM, which eventually showed RAM OK, Mbd fried w/ more 
than 1 stick of (brand-new, DDR400 Geil) RAM onboard. NewEgg swapped it 
out for a FoxConn & no problems (w/ Mbd/CPU/RAM) since. I haven't seen 
many Biostars on NewEgg anymore, I thought they might have dropped them 
over warranty problems ....

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

-------------- next part --------------
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From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sun Dec 11 18:33:27 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:33:27 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
In-Reply-To: <46f680d0512111125q2e8c8478ia82e95c7db88797d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<46f680d0512111125q2e8c8478ia82e95c7db88797d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1134344008.4895.5.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 14:25 -0500, Justin M. Keyes wrote:
> I've read a lot of bad reviews about Biostar on newegg.com, I'm
> beginning to think I should avoid them...

I've had a lot of success with Biostar, at least older versions.

However, there are some reports that the nForce4 series (just about
everything except maybe the Pro) has some acute bugs.

I haven't had anything seem wrong my with Foxconn nForce 4 [standard]
yet.  Of course, I'm in Linux a lot and the few things I've seen have
been all under XP.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From jasonb at edseek.com  Sun Dec 11 14:01:43 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:01:43 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
In-Reply-To: <1134319670.4895.0.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<1134319670.4895.0.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <200512111401.43225.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Sunday 11 December 2005 11:47, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-12-10 at 21:36 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
> > I just love this.  Apparently my Biostar has crap on board sound or the
> > driver just stucks.
>
> High CPU utilization.  Yeah, my nForce4 is the same, it's a Realtek
> ALC65x I believe.  The newer 88x is supposed to be much better.

Yes, exactly.  I have that same ALC65x in my system.  I had recently turned up 
the acceleration to highest from second highest, but didn't make the 
connection.  I think it might have done it even before.  I guess I'll just 
lower the sound acceleration one level at a time until it works properly.

<snip>
> > That's about the strangest thing I have ever seen.  It _only_ happens
> > when browsing the Web so far.
> > I guess I should've bought that SB card linked earlier.  Maybe I still
> > can.
>
> I finally went back to one and I'm very glad I did.

Can I use it in a PCIe 1x slot?  Would it be an issue to buy this now for a 
PCI slot and later upgrade to a PCIe system?  It is $40, after all...

Thanks.

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From wam at HiWAAY.net  Sun Dec 11 15:31:40 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 14:31:40 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] Generic Linux question ....
Message-ID: <439C8CAC.1000807@HiWAAY.net>


.... Several years back (late '90's) I had the impression that SuSE was 
somewhat disdained by some geeks for their practice of making 
alterations to kernel (& possibly other) code in their distro. I *think* 
that most of the other 'big boys' (RH, Mandrake, maybe others) now do 
this as well. They are mostly back-porting newer stuff from newer 
kernels, as I understand it, but their kernels are nonetheless not 
identical & possibly incompatible with other binary packages because of 
these alterations. It is also considered unwise to try to use "vanilla" 
kernels from kernel.org with these distros because of possible/likely 
incompatibilities. Does anyone have a quick synopsis or a link on who 
does what to their kernels, distro-by-distro ? TIA :-).

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sun Dec 11 21:54:07 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:54:07 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
In-Reply-To: <200512111401.43225.jasonb@edseek.com>
References: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<1134319670.4895.0.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
	<200512111401.43225.jasonb@edseek.com>
Message-ID: <1134356047.4895.20.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 14:01 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
> Can I use it in a PCIe 1x slot?

Actually, PCIe x1 audio cards just came out.

> Would it be an issue to buy this now for a PCI slot and later
> upgrade to a PCIe system?  It is $40, after all...

The I/O interconnect used by the SB Audigy2 makes it fine for PCI.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sun Dec 11 21:57:28 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:57:28 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Generic Linux question ....
In-Reply-To: <439C8CAC.1000807@HiWAAY.net>
References: <439C8CAC.1000807@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <1134356248.4895.25.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 14:31 -0600, William A. Mahaffey III wrote:
> .... Several years back (late '90's) I had the impression that SuSE was 
> somewhat disdained by some geeks for their practice of making 
> alterations to kernel (& possibly other) code in their distro.

SuSE vehemently protected its trademark, something that Red Hat didn't
and ultimately paid the price for.  It's about trademark, first and
foremost, everything else is just looking at the details.

> I *think*  that most of the other 'big boys' (RH, Mandrake, maybe others)
> now do this as well.

Red Hat is the one that came to a point where, because of what Sun did
(based on Cobalt), Microsoft would have legal rights to use Red Hat(R)
had Red Hat not moved to finally protect it.

It didn't matter how many times Red Hat revised its guidelines to allow
duplicators to continue using their name -- Cheapbytes.COM being an
explicit one -- they were demonized by the same.  Which is why I no
longer buy from Cheapbytes.COM, they were very political in the non-
sense they did, after Red Hat explicitly granted exceptions on the
trademark for duplicators.

> They are mostly back-porting newer stuff from newer 
> kernels, as I understand it, but their kernels are nonetheless not 
> identical & possibly incompatible with other binary packages because of 
> these alterations. It is also considered unwise to try to use "vanilla" 
> kernels from kernel.org with these distros because of possible/likely 
> incompatibilities. Does anyone have a quick synopsis or a link on who 
> does what to their kernels, distro-by-distro ? TIA :-).

Nope, because it varies widely.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From jasonb at edseek.com  Sun Dec 11 22:45:31 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:45:31 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
In-Reply-To: <1134356047.4895.20.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<200512111401.43225.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<1134356047.4895.20.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <200512112245.31173.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Sunday 11 December 2005 21:54, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 14:01 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
> > Can I use it in a PCIe 1x slot?
>
> Actually, PCIe x1 audio cards just came out.
>
> > Would it be an issue to buy this now for a PCI slot and later
> > upgrade to a PCIe system?  It is $40, after all...
>
> The I/O interconnect used by the SB Audigy2 makes it fine for PCI.

Do you mean legacy PCI or PCI Express?

At 11:59 I'll be out of time to order. ;)

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 12 00:03:23 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:03:23 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
In-Reply-To: <200512112245.31173.jasonb@edseek.com>
References: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<200512111401.43225.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<1134356047.4895.20.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
	<200512112245.31173.jasonb@edseek.com>
Message-ID: <1134363803.4895.30.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Sun, 2005-12-11 at 22:45 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
> Do you mean legacy PCI or PCI Express?

Legacy PCI is the SB Audigy2 ZS.
It won't taxi your PCI interconnect at all.

Most sound cards don't taxi too bad -- well under 10%.
*UNTIL* you start doing 3D audio.

That's what separates the boys from the men in sound cards.
Whether the sound card is relying on 20+% of the CPU's time to do
computation -- and worse, sending back the multi-MB stream of encodings
to various channels.
Or whether the sound card's IC does it, as with the Audigy.

> At 11:59 I'll be out of time to order. ;)

I haven't personally used any PCIe x1 sound cards, so I can't vouche for
them.

But the SB Audigy2 ZS does the job fine, without killing your legacy
PCI.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From jasonb at edseek.com  Mon Dec 12 00:48:33 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 00:48:33 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] I love this, sound skips on browser loading
In-Reply-To: <1134363803.4895.30.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <200512102136.23863.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<200512112245.31173.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<1134363803.4895.30.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <200512120048.34042.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Monday 12 December 2005 00:03, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
<snip>
> > At 11:59 I'll be out of time to order. ;)
>
> I haven't personally used any PCIe x1 sound cards, so I can't vouche for
> them.
>
> But the SB Audigy2 ZS does the job fine, without killing your legacy
> PCI.

Oh well, too late to order.  I need the cash right now anyway.

Since I stopped reading dealnews I think my technology spending has been zero, 
with the exception of the dedicated gaming system I built in August.

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com  Mon Dec 12 10:15:09 2005
From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Whaxiac Patrick)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:15:09 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Generic Linux question ....
In-Reply-To: <439C8CAC.1000807@HiWAAY.net>
References: <439C8CAC.1000807@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <200512121015.10033.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>

On Sunday 11 December 2005 15:31, William A. Mahaffey III wrote:
> .... Several years back (late '90's) I had the impression that SuSE was
> somewhat disdained by some geeks for their practice of making
> alterations to kernel (& possibly other) code in their distro. I *think*
> that most of the other 'big boys' (RH, Mandrake, maybe others) now do
> this as well. They are mostly back-porting newer stuff from newer
> kernels, as I understand it, but their kernels are nonetheless not
> identical & possibly incompatible with other binary packages because of
> these alterations. It is also considered unwise to try to use "vanilla"
> kernels from kernel.org with these distros because of possible/likely
> incompatibilities. Does anyone have a quick synopsis or a link on who
> does what to their kernels, distro-by-distro ? TIA :-).
There are some 420 monitored, reviewed, OSes, at Distrowatch.
Then, there are some 301 LiveCDs monitored, reviewed, at LiveCDlist.

There are about 30 of them, that are proprietary to the state of what you 
describe, AFAIK.  Some Proprietary versions that I have tried out: LinSpire, 
Libranet, BearOps, Suse, Red Hat, Mandrake don't make the grade for my 
personal preferences of what can be updated, upgraded, quickly and with 
little conflict.

In my many trials, since 1997, I have noted that the most problems I ever had 
were with the proprietary distributions.  Too few inputs, single point of 
control of the choices of the apps, and thus, the functionality.  

But, I don't know of a standard or maintained, list of all the changes.  I try 
to use OSes that accept the official kernel from kernel.org.  Tons less 
headaches... and, I desire to never be 'locked-in' to some upgrade 
subscription plan that enriches the coffers of a proprietor, while not 
actually contributing a lot of money to the total effort by all the people.

So, I have prchase a lot of retail boxed sets from all of the above, plus, 
done direct donations to some contributers, my personal goal is to stay open 
source, in it's true sense.  

Hope that all gives you a bit of insight about part of the concept.    

Proprietary vendors seems to do weirdness to give out some eye candy, to hype 
and market their products, but, seem to have natural limits upon the number 
of contributors (usually on the payroll- so, limited in number). whereas the 
free distros seem to either be excellent, have many contributors, or, fail 
due to lack of support.   

Sort of a natural law of survival.   
-- 
http://livecdlist.com  http://distrowatch.com  http://yolinux.com
http://safeharbordome.com  http://minidome.net  http://monolithicdome.com


From wam at HiWAAY.net  Mon Dec 12 11:16:50 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:16:50 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT (for Linux)] DDS tape question ....
Message-ID: <439DA272.1040701@HiWAAY.net>


.... what is the nominal expected lifespan of DDS-2/3/4 tapes in terms 
of # of times recorded ? I have some that are acting up sooner than 
expected ....

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 12 11:10:33 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:10:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Generic Linux question ....
In-Reply-To: <200512121015.10033.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20051212161033.79587.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Whaxiac Patrick <pberry2 at cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> Some Proprietary versions that I have tried out: LinSpire, 
> Libranet, BearOps, Suse, Red Hat, Mandrake don't make the
> grade for my personal preferences of what can be updated,
> upgraded, quickly and with little conflict.

Please don't label Red Hat as "proprietary."

It is not in the least bit.  100% of what Red Hat does and
releases is open source, an overwhelming majority is GPL --
to an anal power.  Otherwise, projects like CentOS -- which
is RHEL only without the Red Hat(R) trademarks, could not
exist.

As far as the inflexibility and rigid/fixed nature of Red Hat
Enterprise Linux (RHEL), that's the technical design and
focus of the product -- especially considering that Service
Level Agreements (SLA) are the major driver.  You do _not_
want to use it when you need flexibility, non-certified 3rd
party apps, etc...

As such, I suggest you not differentiate it as "proprietary"
but another term -- such as "enterprise."

> In my many trials, since 1997, I have noted that the most
> problems I ever had were with the proprietary
distributions.
> Too few inputs, single point of control of the choices of
the
> apps, and thus, the functionality.  

I can't speak with regards to the other distros, but both Red
Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) and Novell/SuSE Linux Enterprise
Server (SLES) are purposely designed to be inflexible and
fixed in configuration.

> So, I have prchase a lot of retail boxed sets from all of
> the above,

Chump change.  The economies-of-scale involved mean that even
if you sell 1M copies, you have to charge 100x what Microsoft
does to see just the same revenues on Windows.  And God knows
Microsoft's profit is not from Windows, but from applications
like office.

Red Hat got completely out of it, and Novell is largely
following their lead.

> plus, done direct donations to some contributers,

That's more effective.

> my personal goal is to stay open source, in it's true
sense.

I have no problem with Red Hat in that regard.  They produce
Fedora Core, which only lacks 3rd party certification and the
Red Hat(R) trademark that even Microsoft was free to use
under the old distribution model (thank you Sun!). 
Everything else is as it was with Red Hat Linux (including
the promised support duration -- which has always been only 1
year**).

[ **NOTE:  And much like Red Hat Linux before it, Fedora Core
often gets supported much longer than 1 year.  But it's not
an official policy -- just like the Red Hat Linux days. ]

> Proprietary vendors seems to do weirdness to give out some
> eye candy, to hype and market their products, but, seem to
> have natural limits upon the number of contributors
> (usually on the payroll- so, limited in number).

You obviously don't know the first thing about the Red Hat -
Fedora symbios.  ;->

I guess with regards to the other vendors, this is true.  But
not Red Hat.

> whereas the free distros seem to either be excellent,
> have many contributors,

Why do you think Novell is switching SuSE to a Fedora-like
model?

Again, labeling "Brand Names" as "proprietary" is rather
ignorant of how the development models actually work --
especially in the case of Red Hat.

> or, fail due to lack of support.   

"Lack of support" is subjective.

The reality is more like the fact that if you have a "kitchen
sink" and you cater to "any 3rd party application," it's
impossible to deliver Service Level Agreements (SLA).  That's
why features/leading-edge and stability/trailing-edge will
always be conflicting.

Red Hat solidified the 2-2-2->release, 6-6-6->enterprise
model long ago.  The problem was that the single product line
did not satisify either solution -- the people bitching for
more apps and the people bitching for less change.  The issue
that finally forced everything was the trademark, once Sun's
lawyers asserted they didn't have to pay Red Hat a dime and
could freely abuse it like Cobalt did, it meant Microsoft
could do the same thing.

The result is that the former got the same 2-2-2->release
model, while the latter still has the same 6-6-6->enterprise
model.  Ironically enough, the model is now becoming more of
a 3-3-3->release and 9-9->enterprise now -- we're actually
getting one "flaky" Fedora Core release followed by one
"solid" Fedora Core, which is the foundation of Red Hat
Enterprise Linux.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From wam at HiWAAY.net  Mon Dec 12 11:20:10 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 10:20:10 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] Generic Linux question ....
In-Reply-To: <200512121015.10033.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>
References: <439C8CAC.1000807@HiWAAY.net>
	<200512121015.10033.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <439DA33A.6090805@HiWAAY.net>

Whaxiac Patrick wrote:

>On Sunday 11 December 2005 15:31, William A. Mahaffey III wrote:
>  
>
>>.... Several years back (late '90's) I had the impression that SuSE was
>>somewhat disdained by some geeks for their practice of making
>>alterations to kernel (& possibly other) code in their distro. I *think*
>>that most of the other 'big boys' (RH, Mandrake, maybe others) now do
>>this as well. They are mostly back-porting newer stuff from newer
>>kernels, as I understand it, but their kernels are nonetheless not
>>identical & possibly incompatible with other binary packages because of
>>these alterations. It is also considered unwise to try to use "vanilla"
>>kernels from kernel.org with these distros because of possible/likely
>>incompatibilities. Does anyone have a quick synopsis or a link on who
>>does what to their kernels, distro-by-distro ? TIA :-).
>>    
>>
>There are some 420 monitored, reviewed, OSes, at Distrowatch.
>Then, there are some 301 LiveCDs monitored, reviewed, at LiveCDlist.
>
>There are about 30 of them, that are proprietary to the state of what you 
>describe, AFAIK.  Some Proprietary versions that I have tried out: LinSpire, 
>Libranet, BearOps, Suse, Red Hat, Mandrake don't make the grade for my 
>personal preferences of what can be updated, upgraded, quickly and with 
>little conflict.
>
>In my many trials, since 1997, I have noted that the most problems I ever had 
>were with the proprietary distributions.  Too few inputs, single point of 
>control of the choices of the apps, and thus, the functionality.  
>
>But, I don't know of a standard or maintained, list of all the changes.  I try 
>to use OSes that accept the official kernel from kernel.org.  Tons less 
>headaches... and, I desire to never be 'locked-in' to some upgrade 
>subscription plan that enriches the coffers of a proprietor, while not 
>actually contributing a lot of money to the total effort by all the people.
>
>So, I have prchase a lot of retail boxed sets from all of the above, plus, 
>done direct donations to some contributers, my personal goal is to stay open 
>source, in it's true sense.  
>
>Hope that all gives you a bit of insight about part of the concept.    
>
>Proprietary vendors seems to do weirdness to give out some eye candy, to hype 
>and market their products, but, seem to have natural limits upon the number 
>of contributors (usually on the payroll- so, limited in number). whereas the 
>free distros seem to either be excellent, have many contributors, or, fail 
>due to lack of support.   
>
>Sort of a natural law of survival.   
>  
>

I *QUITE* agree w/ all of your observations. I am using SuSE at the 
moment (8.2 on a 933 MHz PIII, 9.2 on a 2.4 GHz P4) & like it OK, but 
have noticed problems w/ other packages not being available or not 
working unless specifically compiled for SuSE, thus the question. I knew 
about distrowatch, will look at livecdlist, thanks.

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

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From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com  Mon Dec 12 11:28:59 2005
From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Whaxiac Patrick)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:28:59 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Generic Linux question ....
In-Reply-To: <20051212161033.79587.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051212161033.79587.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512121128.59335.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>

On Monday 12 December 2005 11:10, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Whaxiac Patrick <pberry2 at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> > Some Proprietary versions that I have tried out: LinSpire,
> > Libranet, BearOps, Suse, Red Hat, Mandrake don't make the
> > grade for my personal preferences of what can be updated,
> > upgraded, quickly and with little conflict.
>
> Please don't label Red Hat as "proprietary."
>
> It is not in the least bit.  100% of what Red Hat does and
> releases is open source, an overwhelming majority is GPL --
> to an anal power.  Otherwise, projects like CentOS -- which
> is RHEL only without the Red Hat(R) trademarks, could not
> exist.
>
> As far as the inflexibility and rigid/fixed nature of Red Hat
> Enterprise Linux (RHEL), that's the technical design and
> focus of the product -- especially considering that Service
> Level Agreements (SLA) are the major driver.  You do _not_
> want to use it when you need flexibility, non-certified 3rd
> party apps, etc...
>
> As such, I suggest you not differentiate it as "proprietary"
> but another term -- such as "enterprise."
Egads, it's a jungle out there!  But, the definition smear could be attributed 
to the Microsoft FUD and Hyper marketing by the Microsoft Promotion team of 
big mouth Ballmer.  

The term Enterprise seems to be used flexibly by Microsoft in one instance, to 
define their attack on the server market, whilst being used to define all 
business usage on the other.

I did not mention, but, should, that I was running RedHat 9.0 when the free 
update and user networks were shut down with a short warning.  That served as 
a notice to the 'free' users, who were the beta test group for RH products, 
that we were no longer necessary to the great commercial enterprise that Red 
Hat wanted to become.  

A year later, Fedora Core was released.  But, once burned, twice shy.  
Thousands of beta testers/contributors to the RH bugtrack made the same 
decision.

I was already gone.  And, won't be back.  Too many other fantastic options, 
more closely suiting my personal needs in computers. 

But, thanks for your definitions, and the descriptions.




-- 
http://livecdlist.com  http://distrowatch.com  http://yolinux.com
http://safeharbordome.com  http://minidome.net  http://monolithicdome.com


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Mon Dec 12 11:59:20 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:59:20 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B0B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

A short time ago my wife called to say that the computer wasn't turning
on.  I turned it off last night and when she attempted to get it going
today she said it came on but that neither the mouse, keyboard nor
monitor were working ... which actually means that it wasn't booting.
I'm going to do some diagnostics tonight but my guess is the mobo has
given up :-(

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 12 12:08:00 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:08:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Generic Linux question ....
In-Reply-To: <200512121128.59335.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20051212170800.47757.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Whaxiac Patrick <pberry2 at cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> I did not mention, but, should, that I was running RedHat
> 9.0 when the free update and user networks were shut down
> with a short warning.

Red Hat did _not_ "shut down" free access, despite what most
people believe.  Red Hat _continued_ to provide updates
through the Red Hat Network (RHN) through the end-of-life of
Red Hat Linux 9.0.  Further "legacy" updates for Red Hat
Linux 9.0 are now located on a different server.  It takes 1
configuration change to the Up2Date service to target this
new server.

The RHN servers still provide 100% *FREE* updates to current
Fedora Core relases via Up2Date.  YUM is the preferred
method, especially starting with Fedora Core 5 because the
Anaconda installer now allows you to dynamically add Internet
repositories during install.  But Up2Date was and still is
offered for legacy RHN access.

> That served as a notice to the 'free' users, who were the
> beta test group for RH products,

Red Hat has a 2-3 month cycle of each:  
- Rawhide (now known as Development)
- Beta (now known as Test)
- Release

That goes into building a new revision.  The early revisions
that adopt new versions are very unstable and flaky.  The
latter revisions that include more stable versions of the
same relases are definitely less buggy.

So after 2-4 revisions, a "fixed" Enterprise version is spun.

The old golden rule was _never_ atop a ".0" revision of Red
Hat Linux -- trust the first .1 revision.  In similar
fashion, Fedora Core has basically become _never_ atop an
"even" version (e.g., 2, 4) of Fedora Core -- wait for the
next "odd" (e.g., 3, 5) version.

> that we were no longer necessary to the great commercial
> enterprise that Red Hat wanted to become.  

Again, _false_.  Red Hat had been offering an "enterprise"
distro release since Red Hat Linux 6.2 "E".

The second release was Red Hat Advanced Server 2.1 (later
known as Red Hat Enterprise Linux 2.1) based on Red Hat Linux
7.2.

The 3rd was RHEL 3 based on Red Hat Linux 9.

The 4th was RHEL 4 based on Fedora Core 3.

Red Hat no longer charges for Red Hat Linux because it was
chump change.  The name change was because of trademark. 
They don't certify applications against the 6 month revisions
because most vendors stopped doing such once Red Hat
Enterprise Linux came out, released every 18 months.

Make no mistake, Red Hat employees who work on Red Hat
Enterprise Linux _also_ work on Fedora Core because there is
a 1:1 package relationship.  Without the creation, regression
testing, integration testing and roll-out of Fedora Core
packages, there are *NO* equivalents in Red Hat Enterprise
Linux.

> A year later, Fedora Core was released.

Huh?  Red Hat Linux 10 became Fedora Core 1 after the first
beta.  It was only 8 months after Red Hat Linux 9's release
-- on target for a 6 month revision, but Red Hat took 2
months

> But, once burned, twice shy.  

Huh?  How were you "burned"???

Red Hat's _formal_ and _official_ policy since Red Hat Linux
7.2 was that Red Hat Linux releases would _only_ be updated
for 12 months.  Red Hat actually had a similar policy since
versions earlier, but during Red Hat Linux 6 and early into
7, they supported a few versions as long as 3 years.

Fedora Core today has a similar policy that results in about
12-15 months of "current" support before going "legacy." 
E.g., Fedora Core 3 is over 13 months old and still supported
as "current" (although that should change within the next
month).

> Thousands of beta testers/contributors to the RH bugtrack
> made the same decision.

Not true!  There is *MORE* support for Fedora than there ever
was with Red Hat Linux!  In fact, Fedora Core _formalized_
how non-Red Hat employees could have a say in Fedora Core's
development.  A number of Debian maintainers are now involved
in Fedora's development.

But make no mistake, although there is a meritocracy-based
leadership steering committee, Fedora Core has and will
always exist to set the technology for the next Red Hat
Enteprise Linux release.

> I was already gone.  And, won't be back.  Too many other
> fantastic options, more closely suiting my personal needs
> in computers. 

That's fine, but just don't get your facts on Red Hat so
_wrong_.

Just because it doesn't have the Red Hat(R) trademark on it
doesn't mean it's not every bit as Red Hat Linux was.

> But, thanks for your definitions, and the descriptions.

I'm just sorry they went so ignored.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 12 12:10:39 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:10:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT (for Linux)] DDS tape question ....
In-Reply-To: <439DA272.1040701@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <20051212171040.49823.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
> .... what is the nominal expected lifespan of DDS-2/3/4
> tapes in terms of # of times recorded ? I have some that
are
> acting up sooner than expected ....

Typical 4mm DAT lifespan is (from my memory):  
- 1,000 passes
- 100 "full backups"
- 10 year shelf-life



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 12 23:06:44 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:44 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2
Message-ID: <1134446804.4829.15.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

I'm getting a pair of these this week, one for my parents, one for my
best friend.  They run about $60.  I'll let you know how they work
out ...

Product page:  
  http://www.asrock.com/product/product_K8NF4G-SATA2.htm  

Manual:  
  http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/Manual/K8NF4G-SATA2.pdf  

Essentials:
- Socket-754 with ATX12V 1.0 (20-pin + 4-pin P4)
- nVidia GeForce 6100 + nForce 410 combo
- (2) 184-pin DDR DIMM slots
- (1) PCIe x16 slot
- (2) PCI 32-bit at 33MHz 5V slot
- (1) PCIe x1 / AMR slot
- RealTek ALC850 (7.1 output, 6 jacks)
- RealTek RTL8201 PHY 10/100
- (2) SATA-II channels (SATA-IO/300?)
- (2) ATA-133 channels
- (8) USB 2.0 (4 back, 4 header -- how many EHCI?)
- PS/2, Parallel, Serial (Serial on separate bracket)

FYI, I'm trying to find if anyone sells a DVI PCIe x16 output for the
GeForce 6100 -- if even such a thing is standardized.  The board only
has VGA15 out.

-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Tue Dec 13 09:16:15 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:16:15 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B43@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

My wife tried turning it on again and it worked.  I turned it off again
last night then this morning it took three attempts for it to turn on.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 13 09:30:50 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:30:50 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B43@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B43@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <1134484250.11335.5.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 09:16 -0500, Damien McKenna wrote:
> My wife tried turning it on again and it worked.  I turned it off again
> last night then this morning it took three attempts for it to turn on.

Okay, that's definitely sounding like a power issue.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From hescominsoon at emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com  Tue Dec 13 09:48:50 2005
From: hescominsoon at emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com (William Warren)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 09:48:50 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
In-Reply-To: <1134484250.11335.5.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B43@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
	<1134484250.11335.5.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <439EDF52.7020800@emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com>

I am thinking along the same lines.  Power supply problems.

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 09:16 -0500, Damien McKenna wrote:
> 
>>My wife tried turning it on again and it worked.  I turned it off again
>>last night then this morning it took three attempts for it to turn on.
> 
> 
> Okay, that's definitely sounding like a power issue.
> 
> 

-- 
My "Foundation" verse:
Isa 54:17  No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and 
every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt 
condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their 
righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape"
CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician)

Linux user #322099
Machines:
206822
256638
276825
http://counter.li.org/


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Tue Dec 13 10:21:18 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:21:18 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B46@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Okay, that's definitely sounding like a power issue.

Here's what I have:

500W Antec PSU, only a few months old:
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=26500
Gigabyte nForce4 SLI mobo
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/MotherBoard/Products/Products_GA-K8NXP-SLI.ht
m
PCI video card
PCI SCSI card
160gb Seagate SATA drive
160gb Maxtor IDE drive
80gb Maxtor IDE drive
Internal DLT7000 drive
LG GSA4183 DVD burner

I replaced the old 400W PSU with the 500W one when it wasn't strong
enough to power the DLT drive.  Should I just give up and move the DLT
drive to an external bay?  I'll try disconnecting the drive for a while
to see if that makes a difference.

This is sure giving me the humbugs :-|

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 13 11:03:41 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 08:03:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B46@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051213160341.18915.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Here's what I have:
> 500W Antec PSU, only a few months old:
> http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=26500

Yeah, that should be more than enough -- ATX 2.0 and
everything.

> Gigabyte nForce4 SLI mobo
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/MotherBoard/Products/Products_GA-K8NXP-SLI.htm

That's gotta be where the issue is.  The GeForce 6600GT
really pushes up against the 150W limit of a PCIe x16 video
designated slot.  I'd contact Gigabyte and tell them your
repeat issues.

> PCI video card

Is this in addition to the PCIe?
I've had trouble with a 2nd video card on the PCI.

> PCI SCSI card
> 160gb Seagate SATA drive
> 160gb Maxtor IDE drive
> 80gb Maxtor IDE drive
> Internal DLT7000 drive
> LG GSA4183 DVD burner

That's a lot of devices, but other than the DLT7000, I don't
see them overloading the +12V.  But it _could_ be that --
you're pulling too much +12V from the primary +12V rail.

Are you running all of the drives off of the same Molex run? 
If so, try using a couple of others.

> I replaced the old 400W PSU with the 500W one when it
> wasn't strong enough to power the DLT drive.  Should I just
> give up and move the DLT drive to an external bay?

Yeah, that's a bad sign.  I have an extra, 5.25" full height
external SCSI bays (HD50) if you want to try one.

> I'll try disconnecting the drive for a while
> to see if that makes a difference. 
> This is sure giving me the humbugs :-|



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Tue Dec 13 11:19:58 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:19:58 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B49@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> > 500W Antec PSU, only a few months old:
> > http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=26500
> 
> Yeah, that should be more than enough -- ATX 2.0 and
> everything.

That's what I was hoping.

> > Gigabyte nForce4 SLI mobo
> http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/MotherBoard/Products/Products_GA-K8
> NXP-SLI.htm
> 
> That's gotta be where the issue is.  The GeForce 6600GT
> really pushes up against the 150W limit of a PCIe x16 video
> designated slot.  I'd contact Gigabyte and tell them your
> repeat issues.

I've been using a single ATI X700 Pro card in the machine until a week
ago when it died.

> > PCI video card
> 
> Is this in addition to the PCIe?
> I've had trouble with a 2nd video card on the PCI.

I'm only running the one PCI card, no PCIe right now.

> > PCI SCSI card
> > 160gb Seagate SATA drive
> > 160gb Maxtor IDE drive
> > 80gb Maxtor IDE drive
> > Internal DLT7000 drive
> > LG GSA4183 DVD burner
> 
> That's a lot of devices, but other than the DLT7000, I don't
> see them overloading the +12V.  But it _could_ be that --
> you're pulling too much +12V from the primary +12V rail.
> Are you running all of the drives off of the same Molex run? 

Nope, this PSU has all separate power connectors so I've got at most two
drives on each one.

> > I replaced the old 400W PSU with the 500W one when it
> > wasn't strong enough to power the DLT drive.  Should I just
> > give up and move the DLT drive to an external bay?
> 
> Yeah, that's a bad sign.  I have an extra, 5.25" full height
> external SCSI bays (HD50) if you want to try one.

I think it's a 68pin device.

Thanks, Bryan.

I'll see about doing the enclosure first, then contact Gigabyte.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Tue Dec 13 11:24:50 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:24:50 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Why me?  Another dead PCI-Express card
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B4B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

On a related note, has anyone ever tried simply plugging an internal
SCSI device to an ATX PSU and stringing a long cable to it?  I've got
the 400W PSU I'm not using anymore, have a long cable and could just get
an el-cheapo case to house them.  Worth trying?

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From whittake at sbaflorida.com  Tue Dec 13 14:31:20 2005
From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:31:20 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2
In-Reply-To: <1134446804.4829.15.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <1134446804.4829.15.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <439F2188.9020707@sbaflorida.com>

Bryan:  What cpu are using with the boards and how much are they?
Guess my main interest is are they any better than the Asus K8V SE 
Deluxe that I currently have installed on a machine?
Homer Whittaker


Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> I'm getting a pair of these this week, one for my parents, one for my
> best friend.  They run about $60.  I'll let you know how they work
> out ...
> 
> Product page:  
>   http://www.asrock.com/product/product_K8NF4G-SATA2.htm  
> 
> Manual:  
>   http://www.asrock.com/Drivers/Manual/K8NF4G-SATA2.pdf  
> 
> Essentials:
> - Socket-754 with ATX12V 1.0 (20-pin + 4-pin P4)
> - nVidia GeForce 6100 + nForce 410 combo
> - (2) 184-pin DDR DIMM slots
> - (1) PCIe x16 slot
> - (2) PCI 32-bit at 33MHz 5V slot
> - (1) PCIe x1 / AMR slot
> - RealTek ALC850 (7.1 output, 6 jacks)
> - RealTek RTL8201 PHY 10/100
> - (2) SATA-II channels (SATA-IO/300?)
> - (2) ATA-133 channels
> - (8) USB 2.0 (4 back, 4 header -- how many EHCI?)
> - PS/2, Parallel, Serial (Serial on separate bracket)
> 
> FYI, I'm trying to find if anyone sells a DVI PCIe x16 output for the
> GeForce 6100 -- if even such a thing is standardized.  The board only
> has VGA15 out.
> 



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 13 14:52:55 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 11:52:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2 -- Socket-754 (1600/400),
	Sempron 64 2800+ (1600/1600/128/256)
In-Reply-To: <439F2188.9020707@sbaflorida.com>
Message-ID: <20051213195255.56471.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Homer Whittaker <whittake at sbaflorida.com> wrote:
> Bryan:  What cpu are using with the boards and how much are
> they?

AMD Socket-754 (HT1600,DDR400).  I'm putting an AMD Sempron
64 2800+ (1600Hz, HT1600, 128KiB L1, 256KiB L2) processors
which are the "best bang for the buck" at around $75.

Note the "rating" of a Sempron is against a Celeron.  So an
AMD Socket-754 (1600/400) Sempron 64 2800+
(1600/1600/128/256) will not nearly as good as a Socket-939
(2000/2x400) Athlon 64 3000+ (1800/2000/128/512) which seems
to be barely any faster in rating.  I personally have an
Athlon 64 3200+ (2000/2000/128/512) in my home desktop cube.

I'm continuing to build MicroATX+ATX-PS cubes using the
Chenming 118 series 9" (H) x 11" (W) x14" (D) enclosures --
especially since they will fit even full 500-600W power
supplies.  For more workstations/servers, I'll use an
EATX/SSI-EEB enclosure (which varies).  For more embedded
work, I like the 2.7-5" (H) x 7" (W) x 7" (D) Mini-ITX
enclosures -- short of a custom, 3.5" SBC (think 3.5" disk
drive size -- 4" x 6").

For more on the Chenming MicroATX cube and Mini-ITX Travla
cases, search for either at the top of my blog front page.

> Guess my main interest is are they any better than the Asus
> K8V SE Deluxe that I currently have installed on a machine?
> Homer Whittaker

I have both personally and professionally avoided ViA for AMD
Socket-754/939/940.

I, however, love ViA's C3 (both older CLE266 and newer CN400)
platform in Mini-ITX and 3.5" SBC form-factor (more
embedded).  I've been able to drive 480p HDTV on the
CLE266/1.xGHz C3.

I've also adopted Intel Pentium M using the i915G chipset in
a Mini-ITX form-factor when I've needed to drive 720p HDTV. 
Of course, that's a bit more expensive (over $800).

My big constraint is that I need CardBus for our radios. 
E.g., Boser HS-2606 (3.5" SBC Via CLE266/C3) and Commell
LV-673 (Mini-ITX Intel i915/P-M).  Not cheap ($300+ board --
another $200+ for the P-M).


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 13 15:05:44 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:05:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] [Revisited] PCI-Express SATA RAID cards -- HighPoint
	RocketRAID 2320
Message-ID: <20051213200544.73238.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I was just doing some further research on the HighPoint
RocketRAID 2320 (PCIe) and 2220 (PCI-X) versions.

Apparently, in addition to the Marvell 88SX6041/81 (4/8 SATA
to PCI-X -- not sure about PCIe), there is a HighPoint HPT601
controller.  It seems to be an XOR ASIC and capable of other
operations.

I'm not sure how it overall affects RAID-5, let along RAID-0,
1 or 10 -- and if the ASIC is completely controlling.  I have
no idea how much SRAM (if any) is in the IC either (or on the
Marvell chip).

But it's clear from the limited I/O benchmark in Tom's
review(s) (no DTR) that the HPT601 approach isn't as bad as
the Intel ICH7-R or nVidia MCP-04 southbridges at ATA RAID. 
It actually is fairly competitive with the Broadcom (and the
3Ware 9550SX, although I'm sure that's more about the
9550SX's firmware maturity at this point).

So, since the 4-channel PCIe x4 card is sub-$200, it might
not be a bad option to look into.  It claims Linux support,
but I'm not sure how "open" that support is.  Does it hide
the SATA channels?  I don't think so, because the PCI-X/PCIe
arbitrator is on the Marvell chip.  But they claim the HPT601
allows hot-swap and off-loading from host -- so I don't know.

Supposedly the 3Ware 9550SX's 2 PowerPC 400 series
controllers have PCI-X to PCIe bridges on-IC, so hopefully
we'll see a 9550SX for PCIe soon.  But how much it will
compete is anyone's guess, I think AMCC needs to "shakedown
time" in its PPC400 architecture before we'll see the
9550SX's full potential (right now, even on PCI-X, it's very
good, but not good enough to push me towards it).


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 13 15:09:44 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 12:09:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] [Revisited] PCI-Express SATA RAID cards -- HighPoint
	RocketRAID 2320
In-Reply-To: <20051213200544.73238.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051213200944.35054.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"Bryan J. Smith" <b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote:
> So, since the 4-channel PCIe x4 card is sub-$200, it might
> not be a bad option to look into.  It claims Linux support,
> but I'm not sure how "open" that support is.  Does it hide
> the SATA channels?  I don't think so, because the
> PCI-X/PCIe arbitrator is on the Marvell chip.  But they
> claim the HPT601 allows hot-swap and off-loading from host
> -- so I don't know.

FYI, I'm not sure a PCIe x4 card will physically fit in a
PCIe x1 slot, even though it would work electrically.  I
think it's one of those things that the slot should be
physically the same as or bigger than the card to fit.

That's why you're seeing a number of PCIe x4 slots on
mainboards that are electrically only PCIe x1 (or x2 in a few
cases).  Electrically, PCIe cards automatically "downgrade"
themselves.  But physically, that damn edge on the slot will
make things difficult (unless you break off the end -- which
I wouldn't do unless you don't care about the warranty.  ;->

BTW, I've also noticed the PCIe x1 is 0.25GBps/direction, not
0.125GBps like I previously stated.  So even x1 would be
better than nothing (or using the PCI channel).


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From jasonb at edseek.com  Tue Dec 13 15:31:18 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:31:18 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2 -- Socket-754 (1600/400),
	Sempron 64 2800+ (1600/1600/128/256)
In-Reply-To: <20051213195255.56471.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051213195255.56471.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512131531.18253.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Tuesday 13 December 2005 14:52, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
<snip>
> My big constraint is that I need CardBus for our radios.
> E.g., Boser HS-2606 (3.5" SBC Via CLE266/C3) and Commell
> LV-673 (Mini-ITX Intel i915/P-M).  Not cheap ($300+ board --
> another $200+ for the P-M).

What radios?  What functionality do these expensive Mini-ITX and whatnot 
devices buy you?

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From jasonb at edseek.com  Tue Dec 13 15:31:18 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:31:18 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2 -- Socket-754 (1600/400),
	Sempron 64 2800+ (1600/1600/128/256)
In-Reply-To: <20051213195255.56471.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051213195255.56471.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512131531.18253.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Tuesday 13 December 2005 14:52, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
<snip>
> My big constraint is that I need CardBus for our radios.
> E.g., Boser HS-2606 (3.5" SBC Via CLE266/C3) and Commell
> LV-673 (Mini-ITX Intel i915/P-M).  Not cheap ($300+ board --
> another $200+ for the P-M).

What radios?  What functionality do these expensive Mini-ITX and whatnot 
devices buy you?

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 13 16:39:05 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:39:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2 -- Socket-754 (1600/400),
	Sempron 64 2800+ (1600/1600/128/256)
In-Reply-To: <200512131531.18253.jasonb@edseek.com>
Message-ID: <20051213213905.8801.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jason Boxman <jasonb at edseek.com> wrote:
> What radios?

http://www.cdwg.com/shop/products/specs.aspx?EDC=831368

Although ours are a little different (long, long story).

> What functionality do these expensive Mini-ITX and whatnot 
> devices buy you?

Size, primarily.  Especially when it comes to Mini-PCI and
CardBus on-board.

6.7" x 6.7" -- let alone a 4" x 6" 3.5SBC -- is still a lot
smaller and far more integrated than a 9.6" x 9.6" MicroATX
-- let alone before we have to put slots in whereas we don't
for the integrated Mini-ITX, or 3.5SBCs.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From jasonb at edseek.com  Tue Dec 13 19:18:55 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 19:18:55 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2 -- Socket-754 (1600/400),
	Sempron 64 2800+ (1600/1600/128/256)
In-Reply-To: <20051213213905.8801.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051213213905.8801.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512131918.55355.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Tuesday 13 December 2005 16:39, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Jason Boxman <jasonb at edseek.com> wrote:
> > What radios?
>
> http://www.cdwg.com/shop/products/specs.aspx?EDC=831368
>
> Although ours are a little different (long, long story).

You need a wireless card of sorts to drive your home entertainment system?  
That must be quite a setup (cool, strange, or both).

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 13 20:07:48 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2 -- Socket-754 (1600/400),
	Sempron 64 2800+ (1600/1600/128/256)
In-Reply-To: <200512131918.55355.jasonb@edseek.com>
Message-ID: <20051214010748.10689.qmail@web34114.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Jason Boxman <jasonb at edseek.com> wrote:
> You need a wireless card of sorts to drive your home
> entertainment system?  
> That must be quite a setup (cool, strange, or both).

;->

No, I was sharing what we're using for SFF.
Some of this stuff operates outside.
Others operate in malls.
Etc...




-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 13 20:17:58 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 17:17:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2 -- Socket-754 (1600/400),
	Sempron 64 2800+ (1600/1600/128/256)
In-Reply-To: <20051214010748.10689.qmail@web34114.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051214011758.17271.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"Bryan J. Smith" <b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote:
> ;->
> No, I was sharing what we're using for SFF.
> Some of this stuff operates outside.
> Others operate in malls.
> Etc...

Although you never know.

We keep half-way joking / half-way serious at work that we're
going to put a 40' pole in the back of my yard and see how
much bandwidth we can get between my home in Oviedo to our
sprawling Lake Mary - Heathrow - Altamonte Springs mesh
network.

Some of our stuff can do 25Mbps up to tens of miles.  ;->


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 01:16:02 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:16:02 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Mini-ITX 2677/2699 set-top case for $79 -- WAS: ASRock
	K8NF4G-SATA2
In-Reply-To: <200512131918.55355.jasonb@edseek.com>
References: <20051213213905.8801.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200512131918.55355.jasonb@edseek.com>
Message-ID: <1134540963.4890.31.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Tue, 2005-12-13 at 19:18 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
> You need a wireless card of sorts to drive your home entertainment system?  
> That must be quite a setup (cool, strange, or both).

CaseTronic/CaseOutlet offers a 2677R or 2699R case for $79 that looks
like a nice set-top.  Dimensions are 2.5" (H) x 11.50" (W)  x
10.75" (D).  They'll take (1) 5.25" slim, (1) 3.5" slim and (1) 3.5"
internal, in addition to the mainboard.
  http://www.caseoutlet.com/shopexd.asp?id=137  (2677R)
  http://www.caseoutlet.com/shopexd.asp?id=138  (2699R)

[ NOTE:  They have White as well, but I assume you want Black ]

If you hit Froogle, you can find other resellers offering them for as
low as $60.

As far as mainboards, any ViA will work, although I recommend at least
the CLE266 for MPEG-2 decoding acceleration (don't know about in Linux
-- I need to research mplayer's support).  That's the EPIA CL, M[II] or
PD.
  http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/mini_itx/epia_m/  
  http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/mini_itx/epia_m2/  
  http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/mini_itx/epia_cl/  
  http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/mini_itx/epia_pd/  

Configuration pages with mainboard/CPU are here at
CaseTronic/CaseOutlet:  
  http://www.caseoutlet.com/shopexd.asp?id=203  (2677R)
  http://www.caseoutlet.com/shopexd.asp?id=200  (2699R)  

The M10000 is probably your best "bang-for-the-buck" to start.  Ignore
the MII unless you need CardBus and CompactFlash (which isn't bootable
on that board, it's connected via the CompactFlash, not an ATA channel).
The CL and PD add various features (e.g., dual LAN).  Coincidentally,
CaseTronic/CaseOutlet doesn't seem to offer the CL10000 on those pages,
but it's priced similarly to the M10000 at around $150 (for just the
mainboard+CPU+cooling).

The new CN400 chipset adds MPEG-4 decoding acceleration (again, I need
to research mplayer), DDR400 FSB/memory support, SATA and other goodies,
and is in the EPIA SP (will work in that case) and the new dual-
processor DP using NanoBGA C3 processors (but won't work in that
case):  
  http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/mini_itx/epia_sp/  
  http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/mainboards/mini_itx/vt_310dp/  

Intel will require a bit more clearance, cooling and power (even for
Pentium-M, and definitely Pentium-4) -- let alone they cost a buttload
in Mini-ITX.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 01:29:45 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:29:45 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Mini-ITX 2677/2699 set-top case for $79 -- WAS:
	ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2
In-Reply-To: <1134540963.4890.31.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <20051213213905.8801.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200512131918.55355.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<1134540963.4890.31.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <1134541785.4890.38.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 01:16 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> CaseTronic/CaseOutlet offers a 2677R or 2699R case for $79 that looks
> like a nice set-top.  Dimensions are 2.5" (H) x 11.50" (W)  x
> 10.75" (D).  They'll take (1) 5.25" slim, (1) 3.5" slim and (1) 3.5"
> internal, in addition to the mainboard.
>   http://www.caseoutlet.com/shopexd.asp?id=137  (2677R)
>   http://www.caseoutlet.com/shopexd.asp?id=138  (2699R)

Actually, Directron offers both for $64 and $62 ...
  http://www.directron.com/miniitx.html

They also offer a 3688 for $70 that is smaller (2.5" x 8" x 10.5"), if
you don't mind putting in a 2.5" HD:  
  http://www.directron.com/cubid3688bk.html  

Kicker with that case is no riser.

But they have the CL10000 for $148:  
  http://www.directron.com/epiacl10000.html  

I'm seriously considering a Mini-ITX for a firewall, but I just can't
bring myself to spend the dough just yet.  I'm still running with a
Pentium MMX and 32MiB RAM, and IPCop hiccups when I enable Snort as well
as Traffic Shaping.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 01:33:08 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:33:08 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Mini-ITX 2677/2699 set-top case for $79 -- WAS:
	ASRock K8NF4G-SATA2
In-Reply-To: <1134541785.4890.38.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <20051213213905.8801.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<200512131918.55355.jasonb@edseek.com>
	<1134540963.4890.31.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
	<1134541785.4890.38.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <1134541988.4890.40.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 01:29 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> But they have the CL10000 for $148:  
>   http://www.directron.com/epiacl10000.html  

Nevermind, discontinued.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From wam at HiWAAY.net  Wed Dec 14 12:12:14 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:12:14 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT (for Linux)] Networking/hacked question ....
Message-ID: <43A0526E.5080603@HiWAAY.net>


.... I am posting this on behalf of a friend whose son is the principal 
at a local high school in Gadsden, Al. He is having a problem where 
someone is able to apparently arbitrarily type (usually obscene) text on 
any screen on their network at random. I *think* it is an all-M$FT 
network, but will verify. I thought they mught have been hacked, but am 
*NO* networking expert, there might be some other way to do this. I 
*think* the text pops up in a small dialog-type window, but that is also 
unclear just now :-). Does this ring any bells w/ anyone, & in 
particular, does that anyone know how to track-down/stop this ? TIA

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!



From dave at dgnal.net  Wed Dec 14 12:19:57 2005
From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:19:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT (for Linux)] Networking/hacked question ....
In-Reply-To: <43A0526E.5080603@HiWAAY.net>
References: <43A0526E.5080603@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <1735.71.252.176.10.1134580797.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net>

> someone is able to apparently arbitrarily type (usually obscene) text on
> any screen on their network at random

Windows has always (I think) included a way to send messages to other
machines...it's similiar to very basic 'chatting' in the Unix'

here's a link describing different versions and ways that Microsoft
implements this...and a way to turn it off so that you can stop him....

http://www.cezeo.com/tips-and-tricks/net-send-command/

hope that helps...and no the system is not 'hacked'...as it's a built-in
'feature' that is very old-school...and apparently, this guy just wanted
to have fun with it.

Hope that helps - Dave



From work at sprynet.com  Wed Dec 14 12:18:45 2005
From: work at sprynet.com (John Hayden)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:18:45 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT (for Linux)] Networking/hacked question ....
In-Reply-To: <43A0526E.5080603@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAACrk4GW+VJxMhgyt80aXe0TCgAAAEAAAACWzoDfnnddCkaBOWzBbImwBAAAAAA==@sprynet.com>

Actually yes, if you right click on the system bar click on task manager,
and click on the 'users' tab, you can send messages between 2 systems on the
network.  As an administrator you could send to all users at the same time
with this method.  It will be a matter of setting permissions to prevent
this. 

-----Original Message-----
From: pc_support-bounces at matrixlist.com
[mailto:pc_support-bounces at matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of William A. Mahaffey
III
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 12:12
To: Linux Group HuntsVegas
Cc: PC Hardware List
Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT (for Linux)] Networking/hacked question ....


.... I am posting this on behalf of a friend whose son is the principal at a
local high school in Gadsden, Al. He is having a problem where someone is
able to apparently arbitrarily type (usually obscene) text on any screen on
their network at random. I *think* it is an all-M$FT network, but will
verify. I thought they mught have been hacked, but am
*NO* networking expert, there might be some other way to do this. I
*think* the text pops up in a small dialog-type window, but that is also
unclear just now :-). Does this ring any bells w/ anyone, & in particular,
does that anyone know how to track-down/stop this ? TIA

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

_______________________________________________
Pc_support mailing list
Pc_support at matrixlist.com
http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support


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<(ID*7 C*XX_6M<9\I=L0,- _*(;%P@``````````
`
end



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 12:37:52 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 09:37:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32 real-time
	scanning?
Message-ID: <20051214173752.16534.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Is there an anti-virus (free or not) that does real-time
scanning of e-mail in Thunderbird under Windows XP?

I was going to try AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition because I've
seen reports that it handles such.

Otherwise, I was going to go back through Phil's recent post
about the best free software for Windows.

-- Bryan "I stupidly bought Symantec AV" Smith


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Wed Dec 14 12:43:14 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:43:14 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32
	real-timescanning?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B6F@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Is there an anti-virus (free or not) that does real-time
> scanning of e-mail in Thunderbird under Windows XP?

I'm working on this myself.  Trend Micro Internet Services 2005, which I
bought in January, doesn't offer a generic POP3 filter, its Outlook/OE
or nothing.  I'm on the market for something myself, I figure I'll start
with getting a firewall working first then see from there.  You might
try the Antivir 7 betas (free version available), Kaspersky 6 beta (not
free), Avast 4.6 Home, etc.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Wed Dec 14 12:49:23 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:49:23 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the power connector?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B71@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Once again I've returned a video card to NewEgg only to have it out of
stock, so now I'm looking at getting a replacement card.  Does anyone
have any ideas off-hand which PCI-E video cards need the extra power
connector?  I don't need any super-de-duper video card, I'd just like to
get my PC stable again.  Thanks.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From steve at tigertrails.com  Wed Dec 14 12:54:20 2005
From: steve at tigertrails.com (Steve McQuillin)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 12:54:20 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32 real-time
	scanning?
In-Reply-To: <20051214173752.16534.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051214173752.16534.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A05C4C.9060106@tigertrails.com>

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Is there an anti-virus (free or not) that does real-time
> scanning of e-mail in Thunderbird under Windows XP?
> 
> I was going to try AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition because I've
> seen reports that it handles such.

I use AVG Free with Thunderbird on XP and it does indeed
real-time scan on in/outbound email.

Cheers,
Steve

-- 
Steve McQuillin		| http://www.tigertrails.com
steve at tigertrails.com	| Linux Registered User: 294367


From hescominsoon at emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com  Wed Dec 14 13:14:54 2005
From: hescominsoon at emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com (William Warren)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:14:54 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] What s everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32 real-time
	scanning?
In-Reply-To: <20051214173752.16534.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051214173752.16534.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A0611E.3040102@emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com>

AVG works.  I use ipcop+copfilter so all e-mail gets trucked through 
there first.  I don't run desktop A/v.

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Is there an anti-virus (free or not) that does real-time
> scanning of e-mail in Thunderbird under Windows XP?
> 
> I was going to try AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition because I've
> seen reports that it handles such.
> 
> Otherwise, I was going to go back through Phil's recent post
> about the best free software for Windows.
> 
> -- Bryan "I stupidly bought Symantec AV" Smith
> 
> 

-- 
My "Foundation" verse:
Isa 54:17  No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and 
every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt 
condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their 
righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape"
CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician)

Linux user #322099
Machines:
206822
256638
276825
http://counter.li.org/


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 13:39:17 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:39:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: [OT (for Linux)] Networking/hacked question
	....
In-Reply-To: <43A0526E.5080603@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <20051214183917.49904.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
> .... I am posting this on behalf of a friend whose son is
> the principal at a local high school in Gadsden, Al. He is
> having a problem where someone is able to apparently
> arbitrarily type (usually obscene) text on any screen on
> their network at random.  I *think* it is an all-M$FT 
> network, but will verify.

WinPopUp Hell, now more refined and even more dangerous as
Windows Messaging (not to be confused with the MSN IM
client).

If they are running an ADS domain, there is no excuse, it can
be quickly and effectively addressed with GPOs.  Heck, even
distributed Local Policies for non-2000/XP clients, or with
Samba servers, would be very effective.

Sounds like the Windows admins don't know the first thing
about maintaining a Windows client network.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 13:42:23 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:42:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the power
	connector?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B71@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051214184223.70548.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Once again I've returned a video card to NewEgg only to
> have it out of stock, so now I'm looking at getting a
> replacement card.  Does anyone have any ideas off-hand
which
> PCI-E video cards need the extra power connector?

Anything 6800/7800 with have the PCIe power connector as they
exceed the 150W limitation of PCIe x16 slots.

If you don't mind splurging to just over $300, the GeForce
7800GT is the ultimate balance. 

Sorry for all your issues.  I haven't adopted the 6600 series
at all, much less the 6600GT.

I'll be on the lookout to see if anyone has a 6600GT PCIe
with a PCIe or Molex connector.

> I don't need any super-de-duper video card, I'd
> just like to get my PC stable again.  Thanks.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 13:45:17 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:45:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32
	real-time scanning?
In-Reply-To: <43A05C4C.9060106@tigertrails.com>
Message-ID: <20051214184518.54003.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Steve McQuillin <steve at tigertrails.com> wrote:
> I use AVG Free with Thunderbird on XP and it does indeed
> real-time scan on in/outbound email.

Yep, it seems so.  This guy had the best set of
recommendations (e.g., install AVG before Thunderbird):  
 
http://forum.grisoft.cz/freeforum/read.php?3,55555,backpage=,sv=
 

I'm installing these systems fresh with XP SP2 and I'm
definitely going the Firefox 1.0x (with PrefBar -- damn
that's the ultimate when configured they I like it) and
Thunderbird 1.0x stack.

What's everyone's take on Firefox 1.5?  Plug-ins, sites,
etc...?  I was going to hold off, figuring I could always
upgrade these home users later.

-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 13:46:42 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 10:46:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] What s everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32
	real-time scanning?
In-Reply-To: <43A0611E.3040102@emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <20051214184642.68747.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

William Warren <hescominsoon at emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com>
wrote:
> AVG works.  I use ipcop+copfilter so all e-mail gets
> trucked through there first.  I don't run desktop A/v.

At home, I use a server-based setup.

But for other home users, that option takes extra hardware. 
One is still using dial-up and limits his hours (so he gets
it for free).



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Wed Dec 14 13:57:22 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:57:22 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32real-time
	scanning?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B77@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

I've been using Firefox 1.5 since the official betas and haven't had any
problems once the extensions became available.  Also the Thunderbird 1.5
betas are pretty solid and worth trying.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Wed Dec 14 14:02:58 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:02:58 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B78@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> > Does anyone have any ideas off-hand which
> > PCI-E video cards need the extra power connector?
> 
> Anything 6800/7800 with have the PCIe power connector as they
> exceed the 150W limitation of PCIe x16 slots.

Urk, a bit too rich for my tastes.

> Sorry for all your issues.  I haven't adopted the 6600 series
> at all, much less the 6600GT.

The 6600 series has really come down in price these days, so much so
that they're almost on par with the 6200, and the 6600GT can be had for
$120!  Definitely what I'm going to aim for.

> I'll be on the lookout to see if anyone has a 6600GT PCIe
> with a PCIe or Molex connector.

Thanks.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 14:03:23 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:03:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32real-time
	scanning?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B77@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051214190323.52564.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> I've been using Firefox 1.5 since the official betas

Yeah, I've run it on and off under Linux.

I'm just wondering how the Win32 versions works -- especially
with plug-ins, 3rd party installers, etc...

> and haven't had any problems once the extensions became
> available. 

My big Extension preference is for "PrefBar."  The ability to
click various settings and kill Flash immediately and with
extremely prejudice is almost everything I need.

Anyone using it?

> Also the Thunderbird 1.5 betas are pretty solid and worth
> trying.

I guess they are now on 1.5 RC1, so maybe I should.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 14:15:17 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:15:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B78@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051214191517.67671.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Urk, a bit too rich for my tastes.

Well, the 6800 is approaching $200, but it's really no faster
than a 6600GT.  If you're going to spend $250-300 to get the
6800GT, you might as well go the 7800GT.

But yeah, I know, serious dough.  2 years ago I would have
never considered spending more than $150 on a video card. 
But now, I spend as much on the video card as the rest of the
system (minus hard drives)!

> The 6600 series has really come down in price these days,
> so much so that they're almost on par with the 6200, and
the
> 6600GT can be had for $120!  Definitely what I'm going to
aim
> for.

Pretty much no one has them in PCIe with an additional power
connector, and I'm sure they are extra $$$ if someone
actually did.

A lot of people are complaining about inadequate power from
mainboards -- especially in SLI.  A few SLI mainboards, like
DFI, add extra Molex inputs just for the PCIe slots.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From wam at HiWAAY.net  Wed Dec 14 15:36:12 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:36:12 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: [OT (for Linux)] Networking/hacked question
	....
In-Reply-To: <20051214183917.49904.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051214183917.49904.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A0823C.4070107@HiWAAY.net>

Bryan J. Smith wrote:

>"William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>.... I am posting this on behalf of a friend whose son is
>>the principal at a local high school in Gadsden, Al. He is
>>having a problem where someone is able to apparently
>>arbitrarily type (usually obscene) text on any screen on
>>their network at random.  I *think* it is an all-M$FT 
>>network, but will verify.
>>    
>>
>
>WinPopUp Hell, now more refined and even more dangerous as
>Windows Messaging (not to be confused with the MSN IM
>client).
>
>If they are running an ADS domain, there is no excuse, it can
>be quickly and effectively addressed with GPOs.  Heck, even
>distributed Local Policies for non-2000/XP clients, or with
>Samba servers, would be very effective.
>
>Sounds like the Windows admins don't know the first thing
>about maintaining a Windows client network.
>
>
>  
>

I *said* it was a high school network :-) .... probably no admin at all.

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

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From whittake at sbaflorida.com  Wed Dec 14 15:46:01 2005
From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:46:01 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the power
	connector?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B71@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B71@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <43A08489.20506@sbaflorida.com>

Damien:  I have an Asus V9530/TD/N/128M that I would trade for ?? of 
equal value.  You will have to ask Bryan if it will work with your machine.
Homer


Damien McKenna wrote:
> Once again I've returned a video card to NewEgg only to have it out of
> stock, so now I'm looking at getting a replacement card.  Does anyone
> have any ideas off-hand which PCI-E video cards need the extra power
> connector?  I don't need any super-de-duper video card, I'd just like to
> get my PC stable again.  Thanks.
> 



From tim at mcdonough.net  Wed Dec 14 15:06:35 2005
From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:06:35 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32 real-time
	scanning?
In-Reply-To: <20051214173752.16534.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051214173752.16534.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A07B4B.9040501@mcdonough.net>

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Is there an anti-virus (free or not) that does real-time
> scanning of e-mail in Thunderbird under Windows XP?
> 
> I was going to try AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition because I've
> seen reports that it handles such.

AVG does scan emails on the fly. You have to spelunk around a little 
in the setting of the free version to keep it from tacking on an ad to 
every email you send.

-- 
Tim


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Wed Dec 14 15:58:49 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:58:49 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B84@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Homer Whittaker
> 
> Damien:  I have an Asus V9530/TD/N/128M that I would trade for ?? of 
> equal value.  You will have to ask Bryan if it will work with 
> your machine.

That's a lower speed board than I'd consider, given that it has a
Geforce 5200.  It is also AGP, which won't work in my system.  Thanks
anyway.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 16:07:38 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:07:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the power
	connector?
In-Reply-To: <43A08489.20506@sbaflorida.com>
Message-ID: <20051214210738.74294.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Homer Whittaker <whittake at sbaflorida.com> wrote:
> Damien:  I have an Asus V9530/TD/N/128M that I would trade
> for ?? of equal value.  You will have to ask Bryan if it
will
> work with your machine.

nVidia NV34 (GeForce FX5200) AGP 3.0 (x8) video cards require
an AGP slot.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 14 16:10:21 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:10:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32
	real-time scanning?
In-Reply-To: <43A07B4B.9040501@mcdonough.net>
Message-ID: <20051214211021.11722.qmail@web34108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Tim McDonough <tim at mcdonough.net> wrote:
> AVG does scan emails on the fly. You have to spelunk around
> a little in the setting of the free version to keep it from
> tacking on an ad to every email you send.

Does it screw up any attachments, formatting or PGP sigs?

If not, and it's just a little text blurb, they can ad all
they want AFAIAC.  ;->




-- 
Bryan J. Smith                | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org     |  (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ |   missing headers)


From philb at philb.us  Wed Dec 14 19:15:53 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 19:15:53 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32
	real-time scanning?
In-Reply-To: <20051214173752.16534.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051214173752.16534.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512141915.53929.philb@philb.us>

On Wednesday 14 December 2005 12:37 pm, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Is there an anti-virus (free or not) that does real-time
> scanning of e-mail in Thunderbird under Windows XP?
>
> I was going to try AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition because I've
> seen reports that it handles such.
>
> Otherwise, I was going to go back through Phil's recent post
> about the best free software for Windows.
>
> -- Bryan "I stupidly bought Symantec AV" Smith

Try this. I don't know if it does what you want, but it does offer protection 
from 7 vectors, so I'd be surprised if it doesn't cover mail.

http://www.avast.com/

Free for home use.

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From tec at homemail.bjt.net  Wed Dec 14 23:36:08 2005
From: tec at homemail.bjt.net (Thomas Carlson)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 20:36:08 -0800
Subject: [Pc_Support] What's everyone using for Thunderbird/Win32
	real-time scanning?
In-Reply-To: <20051214211021.11722.qmail@web34108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051214211021.11722.qmail@web34108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1134621368.2590.8.camel@xpc.tecsplace>

Folks,

I've used AVG with Thunderbird RC 1 on WinXP with good results. Don't
know about the pgp signatures as I haven't installed it on the laptop
yet. My guess is it would work well.

You can get the free version of AVG here.... 
http://free.grisoft.com/doc/1

Their new product includes a firewall and virus scanner which seems to
be where the market is going from my vantage point. 

Each email has a small signature on the bottom like Brian said. Other
than that it isn't very intrusive. 

That's my .02 ! :)

Cheers,

Thomas


On Wed, 2005-12-14 at 13:10 -0800, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Tim McDonough <tim at mcdonough.net> wrote:
> > AVG does scan emails on the fly. You have to spelunk around
> > a little in the setting of the free version to keep it from
> > tacking on an ad to every email you send.
> 
> Does it screw up any attachments, formatting or PGP sigs?
> 
> If not, and it's just a little text blurb, they can ad all
> they want AFAIAC.  ;->
> 
> 
> 
> 



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec 15 02:19:34 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 02:19:34 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Fedora Core 4 x86_64 on nVidia C51/NV44 (nForce
	4x0/GeForce 61x0) ...
Message-ID: <1134631174.4892.1.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

Some quick tech info/gotchas ...

http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/12/linux-on-nvidia-c51nv44-nforce.html


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From damien at mc-kenna.com  Thu Dec 15 06:38:45 2005
From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 06:38:45 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] SCSI drive with bare ATX PSU?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B4B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B4B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <43A155C5.8070606@mc-kenna.com>

Damien McKenna wrote:
> On a related note, has anyone ever tried simply plugging an internal
> SCSI device to an ATX PSU and stringing a long cable to it?  I've got
> the 400W PSU I'm not using anymore, have a long cable and could just get
> an el-cheapo case to house them.  Worth trying?
Figured I'd repost to see if anyone might have an idea on it.  Thanks.

-- 
Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek.
damien at mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/



From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com  Thu Dec 15 07:20:47 2005
From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Whaxiac Patrick)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 07:20:47 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] SCSI drive with bare ATX PSU?
In-Reply-To: <43A155C5.8070606@mc-kenna.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B4B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
	<43A155C5.8070606@mc-kenna.com>
Message-ID: <200512150720.47403.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>

On Thursday 15 December 2005 06:38, Damien McKenna wrote:
> Damien McKenna wrote:
> > On a related note, has anyone ever tried simply plugging an internal
> > SCSI device to an ATX PSU and stringing a long cable to it?  I've got
> > the 400W PSU I'm not using anymore, have a long cable and could just get
> > an el-cheapo case to house them.  Worth trying?
>
> Figured I'd repost to see if anyone might have an idea on it.  Thanks.
Didn'tja ever see an external scsi case?

I have one that I am dedicating to my Alpha DEC.  They have a PSU and then, 
the external cable, and that is about it.  

I have a scsi tower, also, and if you wanted a dual redundant PSU 8 drive 
tower, this is it.  Weighs 60 pounds, empty,  though.

-- 
http://livecdlist.com  http://distrowatch.com  http://yolinux.com
http://safeharbordome.com  http://minidome.net  http://monolithicdome.com


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Thu Dec 15 09:06:25 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 09:06:25 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] SCSI drive with bare ATX PSU?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B94@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Whaxiac Patrick
> 
> > > On a related note, has anyone ever tried simply plugging 
> > > an internal SCSI device to an ATX PSU and stringing a long
> > > cable to it?
> 
> Didn'tja ever see an external scsi case?

Yes, but I was wondering if an ATX PSU would be willing to turn on if it
wasn't plugged into a case & mobo.  I remember a few years back that one
PSU I had wouldn't, it had to be plugged in before it would do anything.

Don't suppose you have any that you'd trade?

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From jdy at whitney.ufl.edu  Thu Dec 15 10:55:15 2005
From: jdy at whitney.ufl.edu (John Young)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 10:55:15 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] SCSI drive with bare ATX PSU?
In-Reply-To: <43A155C5.8070606@mc-kenna.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B4B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
	<43A155C5.8070606@mc-kenna.com>
Message-ID: <43A191E3.4060800@whitney.ufl.edu>

Damien McKenna wrote:

> Damien McKenna wrote:
>
>> On a related note, has anyone ever tried simply plugging an internal
>> SCSI device to an ATX PSU and stringing a long cable to it?  I've got
>> the 400W PSU I'm not using anymore, have a long cable and could just get
>> an el-cheapo case to house them.  Worth trying?
>
> Figured I'd repost to see if anyone might have an idea on it.  Thanks.
>
I have not used an ATX PSU with SCSI but have some experience that may help.

Switching PSUs will not operate or at least not regulate without a 
minimum load.

An ATX PSU requires that the green PS-ON line be grounded or it will not 
start.

I have checked computer PSUs with a dummy load made from two automobile 
brake lights, one 6v and one 12v connected to a male drive power plug.

To turn on an ATX-PSU, being from the /very old/ school of electronics, 
I just short the green line to a black line with a paper clip.

To power you SCSI drive try a 12v lamp that will draw about 2 amps as a 
load (1156 from Walmart or NAPA).

Use a switch to short the green wire to ground (black wire).

Try this at your own risk.  If you don't know how to solder, get some 
help from someone who does.

John  Young
ham radio license for 42 years



From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com  Thu Dec 15 14:06:01 2005
From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Whaxiac Patrick)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:06:01 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] SCSI drive with bare ATX PSU?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B94@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B94@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <200512151406.01705.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>

On Thursday 15 December 2005 09:06, Damien McKenna wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Whaxiac Patrick
> >
> > > > On a related note, has anyone ever tried simply plugging
> > > > an internal SCSI device to an ATX PSU and stringing a long
> > > > cable to it?
> >
> > Didn'tja ever see an external scsi case?
>
> Yes, but I was wondering if an ATX PSU would be willing to turn on if it
> wasn't plugged into a case & mobo.  I remember a few years back that one
> PSU I had wouldn't, it had to be plugged in before it would do anything.
>
> Don't suppose you have any that you'd trade?
Most of those SCSI external bays, and towers, have AT PSUs, and on the ones 
that use ATX PSUs, they simply short the two pins that make it come on, by 
using a rocker switch.

Those two pins are:
Pin #14 (GREEN) to any BLACK pin using a small bent insulated wire, shown 
here:  http://modtown.co.uk/mt/article2.php?id=psumod  

-- 
http://livecdlist.com  http://distrowatch.com  http://yolinux.com
http://safeharbordome.com  http://minidome.net  http://monolithicdome.com


From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com  Thu Dec 15 14:19:12 2005
From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Whaxiac Patrick)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:19:12 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] SCSI drive with bare ATX PSU?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B94@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B94@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <200512151419.12529.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>

On Thursday 15 December 2005 09:06, Damien McKenna wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Whaxiac Patrick
> >
> > > > On a related note, has anyone ever tried simply plugging
> > > > an internal SCSI device to an ATX PSU and stringing a long
> > > > cable to it?
> >
> > Didn'tja ever see an external scsi case?
>
> Yes, but I was wondering if an ATX PSU would be willing to turn on if it
> wasn't plugged into a case & mobo.  I remember a few years back that one
> PSU I had wouldn't, it had to be plugged in before it would do anything.
>
> Don't suppose you have any that you'd trade?
Then, there is this tester, but, I saw it for sale locally, and bought it, for 
$10.99  : http://shop.store.yahoo.com/directron/tester1.html

I pick up 'broken' PSUs from computer shops and test them, and have found that 
ususally 4 out of ten are just perfect!  Perhaps swap-outs?  

Then, usually, 3 out of 10 just need a new fan.  I sometimes buy the fans at 
12 for $4.00 on the Internet.   Right now, I am trying to set up and assemble 
my Beowulf Cluster.  Still collecting hardware.   
-- 
http://livecdlist.com  http://distrowatch.com  http://yolinux.com
http://safeharbordome.com  http://minidome.net  http://monolithicdome.com


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec 15 17:50:38 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 14:50:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Call of Duty 2 for PC for $34.99 at BestBuy.COM (add
	$2 shipping) ...
Message-ID: <20051215225038.41265.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Here's one for "Scroll" ...  
http://dealnews.com/deals/Call-of-Duty-2-for-PC-for-35/104003.html



-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec 15 18:03:43 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 15:03:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] CheapGuys has Retail Boxed MSI GeForce 6800 PCIe 128MB
	for $169 ...
Message-ID: <20051215230343.52483.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I think it's CheapGuys -- not sure.  They are located in the
Colonial Prominade (IIRC) off of SR50 across from the East
Colonial Best Buy.

MSI NX6800-TD128E:  
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=NX6800-TD128E

This isn't a GT version with 256MB of 256-bit DDR3, but the
128MB version with 256-bit DDR (although there are 256MB,
256-bit DDR versions too).  The reason I mention it is
because it has an added power connector.  It's also the full
retail box.  Most on-line sites want $180-200+.

Performance-wise, the added pixel/shader units over the 6600
seems to make up for the fact that it only has DDR and not
DDR3 like the GT series.

The VGA Charts VIII at Tom's Hardware guide shows the 256MB
DDR 6800 version always beating the 128MB DDR3 6600GT version
in all benchmarks (the 6800GT version then gets a good 20-30%
boost over the 6800 thanx to its DDR3): 
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/02/vga_charts_viii/page11.html
 

Might be a nice alternative than the GeForce 6600GT if
everyone keeps having power issues with the stock 150W
provided by the PCIe x16 mainboard.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From mflang at bellsouth.net  Thu Dec 15 17:58:54 2005
From: mflang at bellsouth.net (Max F Lang)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 17:58:54 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] SCSI drive with bare ATX PSU?
In-Reply-To: <200512150720.47403.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B4B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
	<43A155C5.8070606@mc-kenna.com>
	<200512150720.47403.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200512151758.54491.mflang@bellsouth.net>

On Thursday 15 December 2005 07:20, Whaxiac Patrick wrote:
> I have one that I am dedicating to my Alpha DEC.  They have a PSU

You have a DEC Alpha?   <slobber, drool>

And I thought I was the cool geek cuz of two RS/6000s sitting beside 
me... :-(


From jasonb at edseek.com  Thu Dec 15 18:46:05 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 18:46:05 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Call of Duty 2 for PC for $34.99 at BestBuy.COM (add
	$2 shipping) ...
In-Reply-To: <20051215225038.41265.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051215225038.41265.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512151846.05350.jasonb@edseek.com>

On Thursday 15 December 2005 17:50, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Here's one for "Scroll" ...
> http://dealnews.com/deals/Call-of-Duty-2-for-PC-for-35/104003.html

Heh.

Played it.  It's awful.  Not even worth $35 IMHO.  I don't really care what 
the reviews say.  It's just more-of-the-same.  The non-linear objectives 
weren't that interesting and the new snipering with the steady aim action is 
irritating.  It also ran more sluggishly on my system than BF2 while BF2 
actually looks better.

-- 

Jason Boxman
http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff



From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com  Thu Dec 15 23:52:53 2005
From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Whaxiac Patrick)
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 23:52:53 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] SCSI drive with bare ATX PSU?
In-Reply-To: <200512151758.54491.mflang@bellsouth.net>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1B4B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
	<200512150720.47403.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>
	<200512151758.54491.mflang@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <200512152352.54017.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>

On Thursday 15 December 2005 17:58, Max F Lang wrote:
> On Thursday 15 December 2005 07:20, Whaxiac Patrick wrote:
> > I have one that I am dedicating to my Alpha DEC.  They have a PSU
>
> You have a DEC Alpha?   <slobber, drool>
>
> And I thought I was the cool geek cuz of two RS/6000s sitting beside
> me... :-(
> _______________________________________________
> Pc_support mailing list
> Pc_support at matrixlist.com
> http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support
but, it wants the 810MB scsi drive, just like laptops use, plus the short 
cables for power and the data to that drive, just to be self contained.  Has 
a floppy, and can use my external scsi drives.  
It is the only 64 bit system I currently have on hand.
And, it is the DEC Alpha21066 (the 166Mhz unit) and not the (two year) later 
667Mhz version.  That is something to droll over! 

-- 
http://livecdlist.com  http://distrowatch.com  http://yolinux.com
http://safeharbordome.com  http://minidome.net  http://monolithicdome.com


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Fri Dec 16 09:29:04 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 09:29:04 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] CheapGuys has Retail Boxed MSI GeForce 6800 PCIe
	128MBfor $169 ...
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1BC2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

That's tempting, very tempting.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Fri Dec 16 12:37:41 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:37:41 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] MSFT to move video layer outside of kernel in Vista
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1BD2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=5002
After moving the video layer *into* the kernel for WinNT 4 they're
finally moving it back *out* of the kernel for Vista to "improve
reliability".  Geez, that's why everyone else did it that way to start
with and that's what everyone told them ten years ago.  <sigh>
 
-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec 16 13:45:37 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 10:45:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] MSFT to move video layer outside of kernel in Vista
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1BD2@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051216184537.59067.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=5002
> After moving the video layer *into* the kernel for WinNT 4
> they're finally moving it back *out* of the kernel for
Vista
> to "improve reliability".  Geez, that's why everyone else
did
> it that way to start with and that's what everyone told
them
> ten years ago.  <sigh>

Now that 2D/3D hardware APIs are abundant, yes, this can
occur.  The Windows Graphics Foundation (WGF) is designed to
handle this.

Of course, WGF 1.1 (essentially DirectX 9) is rather pathetic
in this regard, so the initial Vista will be a sluggish pig. 
WGF 2.0 (fka DirectX 10) is supposed to addres this far
better though.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec 16 15:27:55 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:27:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] 26-32" LCD TVs dropping to $500-700 ...
Message-ID: <20051216202755.14816.qmail@web34108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Being that I've canceled my Toshiba 46" DLP, I'm seriously
considering a 26-32" LCD TV.  I currently have a 30" CRT TV
that only does 480/540i, 480/540p and 1080i, and I'd like to
get one that does 720p for when I get an Xbox 360, let alone
one with VGA/DVI for gaming PC (or two -- one retro, one
current).  Not sure if I'm going to put it in the living
room, or in our rooms where the PCs are (I'm leaning towards
the latter).

The prices are now dropping to $500-700:  
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=201998006&adid=17662
 
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?Sku=W333-3200

They are 8-12ms refresh rates, do 1366x768 with all --
component HDTV, VGA (for old computers), DVI (for newer
computers, cable boxes), etc...

How good are 800:1 or 1600:1 contrast ratios for viewing from
15' or so?

I'm also considering some 10-15' shielded DVI cable runs so I
can turn around from my PC and look at a 26-32" TV in the
corner -- using a wireless keyboard/mouse, when I want to
play games.  Hmmm, might have to buy 2, maybe wall-mounted in
each PC room.

Especially if I got a wall mount that can "tilt up and away"
so I can use the normal LCD setups (1680x1050 on one,
dual-1280x1024 on the other), and just "pull it down" when I
want to game.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Fri Dec 16 17:38:42 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:38:42 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Kaspersky Anti-Virus seems good
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1BF1@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Looking at:
http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse/report07.pdf
it seems that Kaspersky's virus checker is currently the current best at
detecting virus.  
 
While the comparison hasn't yet been updated to include the new
currently-in-beta releases, it should still be accurate for today.
 
Worth considering are the improvements that Kaspersky are rolling out in
their 2006 versions:
http://www.kaspersky.com/beta?product=165219909
 
-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sat Dec 17 23:19:48 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 20:19:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Note-To-Self: Check Every Part For Failure (TheBS is
	an idiot) ...
Message-ID: <20051218041948.51514.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Oh yeah, TheBS is an idiot, and loves to waste his own time
...
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/12/note-to-self-check-every-part-for.html

So, anyone interested in a spare S754 mainboard+CPU I have? 
;->

Here's the URLs I purchased them directly from:  
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157084
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819104245

The ASRock is a very small board (9.6" x 8.0"), but it has a
lot of options.  It's the C51 chipset, GeForce 6100 (NV44
GPU) and nForce 410.  It also has the newer RealTek ALC850
codec, which is lot better at 3D without killing the CPU,
unlike the ALC600-series.

I've now tested the mainboard+CPU combination again -- just
fine now that I don't have the stupid, broken Mitsumi F404
connected.  I assembled an exact same combination earlier for
a friend, and he's using his right now.

As far as Linux compatibility, see my earlier blog entry ...
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/12/linux-on-nvidia-c51nv44-nforce.html
 


-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sun Dec 18 00:14:25 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 21:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Lov'n Cheap Guys on East Colonial ... S939 A64 3000+
	for $119 (yes, not a misprint!)
Message-ID: <20051218051425.10059.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Now here's the rest of that mainboard+CPU story.

I ran back out to Cheap Guys on East Colonial.  Sure enough,
other than an ATI R480 for $90, they had nothing in a
Socket-754 MicroATX.  They had a Gigabyte GF6100+nF430 in
Socket-939 for $100, but no Socket-754 version.

Now I was fairly certain that the S754 Sempron 64 2800+ I had
was good.  But for the heck of it, I decided to ask what the
cheapest S939 processor was.  I about fell on the floor when
they told me their S939 Athlon 64 3000+ was only $119.99 --
full retail box!

I was dumbfounded.  I could have swore the cheapest prices
I've seen for the S939 A64 was $150+.  So then I figured it
must be one of the new S939 Sempron 64 processors that are
just coming out in HPs and other tier-1 OEMs.  But my shock
was reality -- it was the _full_ S939 A64 3000+ running at
1.8GHz, HT2000 bus, etc...

Now I don't think it's a Rev. E or anything, only SSE2 is
listed in /proc/cpuinfo.  I haven't fully checked.  But with
virtually no one selling a Socket-939 Athlon 64 below $150,
it was quite a steal!  It's almost as if they looked at the
comparable Socket-754 Athlon 64 prices, and applied them to
the Socket-939.

It completely off-set the $25 extra I paid for the
motherboard by going local/retail, and then some.  Very nice
deal indeed.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From paulf at quillandmouse.com  Sun Dec 18 02:45:46 2005
From: paulf at quillandmouse.com (Paul M Foster)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 02:45:46 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Troubleshooting Help Needed
Message-ID: <20051218074546.GM7036@quillandmouse.com>

Folks:

It's been beaucoup years since I had anything serious to do with Windows 
boxen, and now I seem to have a problem I'm not sure how to approach. 
It's my wife's machine.

This is an XP Home Edition box, Service Pack #1.

My wife recently rebooted and had some "serious errors" come up. They 
were the kind of errors where Microsoft pops up an error box and prompts 
you to push the button to send them a report on it. (We didn't do that. 
I don't really trust Microsoft.)

One of these errors mentioned the Nvidia card. It's a GeForce4 MX 440 
with AGP8X. There looks to be a built-in AGP chip on the motherboard, 
but I'm guessing they jumpered it so that they could install this Nvidia 
card in the AGP slot. In any case, I don't recall the exact error. But 
since then, on occasion her video will "blink". It's hard to describe 
this. The only analog I can think of is when you install Linux on a box, 
and the OS tries various resolutions and speeds on the monitor to see 
what will work. It blinks the display until it finds the right specs. 
That's what this is like. It does it once or twice, and then it's fine.

When this all first happened, I opened up the case, blew out all the 
animal hair and dust, and reseated the video card.

In any case, given the meager information I've provided, I have some 
questions.

1) If this truly is a video problem, is it more likely a software/driver 
issue or a hardware/card issue? My thought was to have her uninstall the 
driver for the card and then reinstall it, since Microsoft OSes are 
known to have bit rot.

2) Is the above preliminary handling a reasonable approach?

3) Is it likely that a next step might be to reinstall the OS? Since 
I've never run XP myself, I don't know if this is a reasonable approach. 
It was for Win98, but I don't know about XP.

4) I don't know if we ever got a CD with the OS on it. Yes, it was from 
a reputable shop, but I'm seeing less and less giving CDs for the OS 
these days. Is this SOP?

5) I figure that if I ask Microsoft (?!) or take this to a repair place, 
the very first thing they're going to tell me is that I need to upgrade 
to SP2 or whatever service pack they're up to now. Any thoughts on this? 
I heard nightmares about SP2, so we never installed it. Besides, opening 
up our box to have Microsoft install software seems like a virtual 
guarantee you'd have to reinstall everything else.

Any assistance would be welcome. Apologies for the dearth of data. It 
only just occurred to me to actually ask you guys.

Paul


From bob at ITHuntsville.com  Wed Dec 14 15:02:54 2005
From: bob at ITHuntsville.com (Bob Nance)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:02:54 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: [OT (for Linux)] Networking/hacked question
	....
In-Reply-To: <121420051719.14440.43A0541F000B9995000038682197912995CA9B9D0A0D019D0306@mchsi.com>
References: <121420051719.14440.43A0541F000B9995000038682197912995CA9B9D0A0D019D0306@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <1cf8ff3d50e9d380dcac2a8752bde685@ITHuntsville.com>

> Yes, you have someone who has discovered MSG.
>

Or simpler.

NET MSG USER <Any text message you want>
or worse
NET MSG /domain <Any text message that goes to everyone on the domain!>

Doesn't require any special software. It's standard with Windows.

Windows receives these messages using the Windows Alerter service. By 
default, this service is turned off on Windows XP SP2. You can turn it 
off to stop the reception of these messages.

-Bob



From whittake at sbaflorida.com  Sun Dec 18 15:07:39 2005
From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 15:07:39 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Note-To-Self: Check Every Part For Failure (TheBS
	is	an idiot) ...
In-Reply-To: <20051218041948.51514.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051218041948.51514.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A5C18B.1010204@sbaflorida.com>

Bryan:  I left a message on your Blog in re this board.  If you did not 
get it I will resend here.
Homer Whittaker



Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Oh yeah, TheBS is an idiot, and loves to waste his own time
> ...
> http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/12/note-to-self-check-every-part-for.html
> 
> So, anyone interested in a spare S754 mainboard+CPU I have? 
> ;->
> 
> Here's the URLs I purchased them directly from:  
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157084
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819104245
> 
> The ASRock is a very small board (9.6" x 8.0"), but it has a
> lot of options.  It's the C51 chipset, GeForce 6100 (NV44
> GPU) and nForce 410.  It also has the newer RealTek ALC850
> codec, which is lot better at 3D without killing the CPU,
> unlike the ALC600-series.
> 
> I've now tested the mainboard+CPU combination again -- just
> fine now that I don't have the stupid, broken Mitsumi F404
> connected.  I assembled an exact same combination earlier for
> a friend, and he's using his right now.
> 
> As far as Linux compatibility, see my earlier blog entry ...
> http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/12/linux-on-nvidia-c51nv44-nforce.html
>  
> 
> 


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sun Dec 18 16:14:14 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 16:14:14 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Note-To-Self: Check Every Part For Failure (TheBS
	is	an idiot) ...
In-Reply-To: <43A5C18B.1010204@sbaflorida.com>
References: <20051218041948.51514.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<43A5C18B.1010204@sbaflorida.com>
Message-ID: <1134940454.5975.0.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Sun, 2005-12-18 at 15:07 -0500, Homer Whittaker wrote:
> Bryan:  I left a message on your Blog in re this board.  If you did not 
> get it I will resend here.

I don't see any comments on either of my 2 last blog entries.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 19 12:57:38 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 09:57:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] If you don't have it yet,
	there's no excuse now ... Doom 3 for $9.99 ...
Message-ID: <20051219175738.82197.qmail@web34108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>From DealNews ...
http://dealnews.com/deals/Doom-3-for-PC-for-9-99/104359.html



-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Mon Dec 19 13:05:18 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:05:18 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C15@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

As it turns out, the card I'd bought only had a 30 day deal on refunds
so NewEgg is going to scrape up a replacement X700Pro card instead.  So
much for upgrading.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Mon Dec 19 13:11:03 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:11:03 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] If you don't have it yet,
	there's no excuse now ... Doom 3 for $9.99 ...
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C16@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Seems to be out of stock, when I add it to my cart it says there's
nothing in my cart.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Mon Dec 19 14:26:53 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:26:53 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C1F@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Just to confuse matters, I just got another email to say that they *are*
going to offer me an alternative (Sapphire Radeon X700Pro) or a refund.
Doh!

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 19 15:08:25 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 12:08:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C1F@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051219200825.93358.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Just to confuse matters, I just got another email to say
> that they *are* going to offer me an alternative (Sapphire
> Radeon X700Pro) or a refund.  Doh!

You know what I'd say ... pimp your ride with a GeForce 6800!
 ;->

$169 for the 128MB DDR models at Cheap Guys.

Otherwise, I've noted the GeForce 6800GS (PCIe native 6800GT)
are now getting very close to $200.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Mon Dec 19 15:46:43 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:46:43 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C26@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> > Just to confuse matters, I just got another email to say
> > that they *are* going to offer me an alternative (Sapphire
> > Radeon X700Pro) or a refund.  Doh!
> 
> You know what I'd say ... pimp your ride with a GeForce 6800!
>  ;->

I'm debating it.

> $169 for the 128MB DDR models at Cheap Guys.
> Otherwise, I've noted the GeForce 6800GS (PCIe native 6800GT)
> are now getting very close to $200.

I thought the GS was the same as the others just with tweaked features
(clock, pipelines, etc) to fill in a price-point?  Would there be reason
to get the GS vs the plain one?

Currently I'm debating between the 6600GT and the ATI X1600Pro - I like
the extras with the latest ATI drivers specifically the
hardware-accelerated video encoding (well, ok, the hardware acceleration
hasn't been added yet, that'll probably be in 5.14 or so) and the video
improvements but I also like the upgrade potential of having an
SLI-capable system and being able to throw in another 6x00 when/if I
feel like it down the road.  So I'm confoozled.  We don't do a lot of
games and I suspect I'd get more mileage from the X1600Pro but it limits
the upgrade potential.

Moo.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 19 16:06:57 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:06:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C26@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051219210657.16337.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> I thought the GS was the same as the others

Hell no!  ;->
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2593&p=2

It's got DDR3 like any GT[X] model, same speed as the GeForce
6800GT (AGP native).  It's got a higher GPU clock than even
the 6800 Ultra!

Yeah, it's only got the 12/5 Pixel/Vertex versus the full
16/6 of the 6800GT/Ultra.  But consider the GT/DDR3 series
are already 20-25% faster than their non-GT/DDR versions --
and then look at the clock of the GS.

> just with tweaked features (clock, pipelines, etc)

Again, mon't forget memory man -- that memory clock boost
with DDR3 is killer!  And then the GPU is 33% faster too.

> to fill in a price-point?  Would there be reason to get the
> GS vs the plain one?

Oh, I just wanted to point it out -- since they are dropping
close to $200.  There is something to be said for a card that
is locally available -- like the GF6800 DDR 128MB at Cheap
Guys.

> Currently I'm debating between the 6600GT and the ATI
> X1600Pro - I like the extras with the latest ATI drivers
> specifically the hardware-accelerated video encoding (well,
> ok, the hardware acceleration hasn't been added yet,
that'll
> probably be in 5.14 or so)

I'd get a separate PCI or PCIe card for video encoding.  ATI
does  alot of pseudo-software/hardware that is rather
limited.

For NTSC, there are countless cards for $50 these days that
are still better.

HDTV/Component capture cards are now appearing as well, at
around $100 or so.

> and the video improvements but I also like the upgrade
> potential of having an SLI-capable system

_All_ 6800 models are SLI capable.  Yes, even the non-GT
6800, as well as the 6800GS.

It's only the 6200 and non-GT 6600 that aren't.

> and being able to throw in another 6x00 when/if I
> feel like it down the road.  So I'm confoozled.
> We don't do a lot of games and I suspect I'd get more
mileage
> from the X1600Pro but it limits the upgrade potential.

Well, it's up to you.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 19 16:13:24 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:13:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Ultralight 3.6lbs. Pentium-M 1.1GHz, i855GM, 512MiB,
	80GiB, 1280x768 10.6" WXGA for $899 ...
Message-ID: <20051219211324.57094.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Now these are getting mighty tempting ...
http://dealnews.com/deals/Averatec-Pentium-M-1-1-GHz-10-6-Notebook-for-900/104384.html

I think I'd rather go a pound heavier (4.6lbs.) for a Turion
64, ATI Xpress 200 unit for around the same price.

Ack, must ... stop ... spending ... money!


-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Mon Dec 19 16:37:36 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 16:37:36 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C2E@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> > I thought the GS was the same as the others
> 
> Hell no!  ;->
> http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2593&p=2

Its tempting, just not sure I can justify the extra right now.  Hmm...

> > just with tweaked features (clock, pipelines, etc)
> 
> Again, mon't forget memory man -- that memory clock boost
> with DDR3 is killer!  And then the GPU is 33% faster too.

NewEgg has them for $200...

> > to fill in a price-point?  Would there be reason to get the
> > GS vs the plain one?
> 
> Oh, I just wanted to point it out -- since they are dropping
> close to $200.  There is something to be said for a card that
> is locally available -- like the GF6800 DDR 128MB at Cheap
> Guys.

Something to consider, but I don't like Cheap Guys, the owner lied to me
twice in the same (short) conversation.

There's a 6800XT (350/600) on NewEgg for $129AR.

> > Currently I'm debating between the 6600GT and the ATI
> > X1600Pro - I like the extras with the latest ATI drivers
> > specifically the hardware-accelerated video encoding (well,
> > ok, the hardware acceleration hasn't been added yet,
> > that'll probably be in 5.14 or so)
> 
> I'd get a separate PCI or PCIe card for video encoding.  ATI
> does  alot of pseudo-software/hardware that is rather
> limited.

I was focused more on the encoding, I already have a capture widget
that'll work well enough.  And I don't have any more free PCI cards
thanks to having an SLI mobo.

> It's only the 6200 and non-GT 6600 that aren't.

Actually some 6200 and 6600 cards have the SLI connector on the board
but they're taped off, though I've not heard of anyone trying to SLI
them yet.

> > and being able to throw in another 6x00 when/if I
> > feel like it down the road.  So I'm confoozled.
> > We don't do a lot of games and I suspect I'd get more
> > mileage from the X1600Pro but it limits the upgrade potential.
> 
> Well, it's up to you.

Yep.  Too bad I can't take one of each and SLI them ;-)

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 19 16:51:39 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 13:51:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C2E@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051219215139.8907.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Its tempting, just not sure I can justify the extra right
> now.  Hmm...

I totally understand that.

[ TheBS just remembers he's dropping $2K for a trip to
Hawaii, and that's only the flight+hotel. ;-]

If you're really wanting to save some dough, there is nothing
wrong with going with a GeForce 6200TC.  I would also even
recomment a non-GT 6600, although I don't know how much less
power they use (I'd have to look if the slower memory/clock
helps at all).

> NewEgg has them for $200...

Yeah, I just saw that!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A18817&SubCategory=48&Submit=Property

> Something to consider, but I don't like Cheap Guys, the
> owner lied to me twice in the same (short) conversation.

I noticed they aren't always the most knowlegeable.  I don't
get into it too much with them.  I just know what I want,
make sure I get the exact product (and not something
"cheaper, but similar"), etc...

I haven't really met a local outfit that didn't have techs
who weren't a bit off-the-mark at times.  If I ran a local
store, I'm sure I wouldn't get all my facts correctly
all-the-time.

> There's a 6800XT (350/600) on NewEgg for $129AR.

Yeah, I saw those -- all refurbs.  8 pixel pipes with DDR3. 
I can only assume they are failed GeForce 6800GS/GT/Ultra
cards that have failed pipes and are recoded to disable them.

Don't know if I trust them.  But at least they should get you
6600GT performance, but have a PCIe connector.  Not sure that
is an ideal combo though.

> I was focused more on the encoding, I already have a
> capture widget that'll work well enough.

Er, um, I'm confused then.  How would the encoding on the
video card help you then?  It's really only helpful during
real-time capture.

> And I don't have any more free PCI cards thanks to having
an
> SLI mobo.
> Actually some 6200 and 6600 cards have the SLI connector on
> the board but they're taped off, though I've not heard of
> anyone trying to SLI them yet.

You can actually get SLI without the connector, but you take
a performance hit.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Mon Dec 19 17:06:54 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:06:54 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C32@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> > Its tempting, just not sure I can justify the extra right
> > now.  Hmm...
> 
> I totally understand that.
> [ TheBS just remembers he's dropping $2K for a trip to
> Hawaii, and that's only the flight+hotel. ;-]

For that reason I'll probably do the X1600Pro, they're within my
guestimated budget.

> If you're really wanting to save some dough, there is nothing
> wrong with going with a GeForce 6200TC.

The TC models are more of a drain on system resources than I care to
try, I've had enough of onboard video, and as-is I could do with some
more RAM anyway.

> I haven't really met a local outfit that didn't have techs
> who weren't a bit off-the-mark at times.  If I ran a local
> store, I'm sure I wouldn't get all my facts correctly
> all-the-time.

Most knowledgeable computer geeks don't do sales as the pay sucks.  I
only did it for a while and that was 'cause I was stuck in a college
town with little / no employment opportunities.  Then I got into web
development.

> > There's a 6800XT (350/600) on NewEgg for $129AR.
> 
> Yeah, I saw those -- all refurbs.  8 pixel pipes with DDR3. 
> I can only assume they are failed GeForce 6800GS/GT/Ultra
> cards that have failed pipes and are recoded to disable them.
> Don't know if I trust them.  But at least they should get you
> 6600GT performance, but have a PCIe connector.  Not sure that
> is an ideal combo though.

I think I'll skip them, given that I've sent back two retail PCI-E cards
as is, I don't want to even try a refurb.

> > I was focused more on the encoding, I already have a
> > capture widget that'll work well enough.
> 
> Er, um, I'm confused then.  How would the encoding on the
> video card help you then?  It's really only helpful during
> real-time capture.

I'm interested in the abilities to re-encode video from source MPEG2.
I've got a USB video capture widget that can do real-time encoding of
VHS quality video on my PC, which is enough to do the basic capturing
that I'm after.  I'm more interested in being able to re-encode the
larger quantities of MJPEG footage.  Once ATI gains more support for its
Avivo facilities it should be a major boost to productivity.

> > And I don't have any more free PCI cards thanks to having
> > an SLI mobo.
> 
> You can actually get SLI without the connector, but you take
> a performance hit.

Didn't know that!

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From scokand at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 19 17:21:48 2005
From: scokand at yahoo.com (scott anderson)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:21:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] cpu grease
Message-ID: <20051219222148.25316.qmail@web50115.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello.
I am making a pc for my father-in-law for christmas. 
I went to the computer show and got a good deal of the
parts, and now I am putting it together.  Everything
is going ok, but I notice that the manual that came
with the motherboard says that I should put grease
between the cpu and the fan/heatsink.  The cpu manual
doesn't talk about grease, and didn't come with it.  I
have googled and found too much information.
As always, Thanks

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From hescominsoon at emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com  Mon Dec 19 18:06:57 2005
From: hescominsoon at emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com (William Warren)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:06:57 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] cpu grease
In-Reply-To: <20051219222148.25316.qmail@web50115.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051219222148.25316.qmail@web50115.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A73D11.4010407@emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com>

jsut get arctic silver cpu paste.  Can't go wrong with it..however a 
little bit goes a long way..remember that.

scott anderson wrote:
> Hello.
> I am making a pc for my father-in-law for christmas. 
> I went to the computer show and got a good deal of the
> parts, and now I am putting it together.  Everything
> is going ok, but I notice that the manual that came
> with the motherboard says that I should put grease
> between the cpu and the fan/heatsink.  The cpu manual
> doesn't talk about grease, and didn't come with it.  I
> have googled and found too much information.
> As always, Thanks
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> _______________________________________________
> Pc_support mailing list
> Pc_support at matrixlist.com
> http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support
> 

-- 
My "Foundation" verse:
Isa 54:17  No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and 
every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt 
condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their 
righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

-- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape"
CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician)

Linux user #322099
Machines:
206822
256638
276825
http://counter.li.org/


From tim at mcdonough.net  Mon Dec 19 19:41:03 2005
From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:41:03 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
Message-ID: <43A7531F.4010104@mcdonough.net>

I'm looking for recommendations on a good deal for motherboard and CPU 
combos for general office type applications.

Need a built-in LAN and video. I have accumulated up 3 ATX machines 
with motherboards that have various maladies such as dead video, dead 
LAN ports, etc. I'd like to refurb them and be able to use them for 
interns and part time help. No exotic apps, just basic word processing 
and maybe some spreadsheet work along with one app for our truck 
system that has low demands. The machines will use WinXP Pro.

With most things electronics the rule is "Fast, Reliable, Inexpensive. 
Pick any two". I need reliable and inexpensive. Quiet would be a plus.

Thanks for any pointers.

-- 
Tim


From wam at HiWAAY.net  Mon Dec 19 19:50:38 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:50:38 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT] SGI XFS question ....
Message-ID: <43A7555E.2070208@HiWAAY.net>


.... I have an SGI octane on my LAN, 2 X 300 MHz R12000, IRIX 6.5.20f, 
w/ a 73.4 GB IBM HDD (1 big partition) which is exported via NFS to 
other machines on my network, and is used as work space by some of them. 
To that end, I back it up nightly across my LAN to another box, 2.4 GHz 
P4, SuSE 9.2 Linux, all stock, w/ a 160 GB IDE HDD mounted as /home. The 
Octane drive is automounted by the Linux box as needed, using automount 
over NFS3. I get a spate of error messages on the Octane during this 
backup process (which simply creates a compressed TAR archive of 
relevant directories from the Octane on the Linux box), which errors-out 
on the Linux box before completion. I attach the error messages from the 
SGI, there are no messages from the Linux box, just an incomplete 
backup. Does this ring any bells w/ anyone ? I ran xfs_check & 
xfs_repair this weekend on the Octane HDD, but to no avail. TIA and 
Merry Christmas :-).

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

-------------- next part --------------
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From wam at HiWAAY.net  Mon Dec 19 19:55:04 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:55:04 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <43A7531F.4010104@mcdonough.net>
References: <43A7531F.4010104@mcdonough.net>
Message-ID: <43A75668.9090309@HiWAAY.net>

Tim McDonough wrote:

> I'm looking for recommendations on a good deal for motherboard and CPU 
> combos for general office type applications.
>
> Need a built-in LAN and video. I have accumulated up 3 ATX machines 
> with motherboards that have various maladies such as dead video, dead 
> LAN ports, etc. I'd like to refurb them and be able to use them for 
> interns and part time help. No exotic apps, just basic word processing 
> and maybe some spreadsheet work along with one app for our truck 
> system that has low demands. The machines will use WinXP Pro.
>
> With most things electronics the rule is "Fast, Reliable, Inexpensive. 
> Pick any two". I need reliable and inexpensive. Quiet would be a plus.
>
> Thanks for any pointers.
>

Oh, I can't resist .... WalMart has AMD Sempron-64 systems, model # 
SR1603WM-B, for $448.00, w/ XP already there, 256 MB RAM, 80 GB HDD, w/ 
17" Flat-screen monitor, a turn-key solution. Buddy of mine got 1 for 
his daughter. Not bad for a 7-year-old girl to have her own 64-bit PC 
:-). It is (considerably) faster than CRAY's I worked on in the mid 
'80's ....

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 19 20:38:48 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:38:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C32@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051220013848.27370.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> The TC models are more of a drain on system resources than
> I care to try, I've had enough of onboard video, and as-is
I
> could do with some more RAM anyway.

6200TCs are _not_ on-board video.  They have a local
framebuffer, and whatever is left over is used for texture --
until it's not enough.  The 256MiB models have 64MiB on-card.

> I think I'll skip them, given that I've sent back two
> retail PCI-E cards as is, I don't want to even try a
refurb.

Yeah, same here.

> I'm interested in the abilities to re-encode video from
> source MPEG2.

MJPEGTools?  And there are countless tools for Windows.

> I've got a USB video capture widget

Ouch!  EHCI (USB 2.0) I hope?

I'm a strict FireWire dude on Digital Video (DV) for various
reasons.

> that can do real-time encoding of VHS quality video on my
PC,
> which is enough to do the basic capturing that I'm after.
> I'm more interested in being able to re-encode the
> larger quantities of MJPEG footage.

MJPEGTools work great under Linux.

> Once ATI gains more support for its Avivo facilities it
> should be a major boost to productivity.

I don't see how the ATI chip benefits you when the video is
already captured and on your hard disk?



-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From jasonb at edseek.com  Mon Dec 19 20:28:39 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:28:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <43A75668.9090309@HiWAAY.net>
References: <43A7531F.4010104@mcdonough.net> <43A75668.9090309@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <19868.69.69.152.222.1135042119.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>

William A. Mahaffey III said:
<snip>
> Oh, I can't resist .... WalMart has AMD Sempron-64 systems, model #
> SR1603WM-B, for $448.00, w/ XP already there, 256 MB RAM, 80 GB HDD, w/
> 17" Flat-screen monitor, a turn-key solution. Buddy of mine got 1 for
> his daughter. Not bad for a 7-year-old girl to have her own 64-bit PC
> :-). It is (considerably) faster than CRAY's I worked on in the mid
> '80's ....

First you want to bump it up to 512M.  It's insane that in this day and age
XP systems don't come with at least 512M.  Even the junk cheap systems ought
to ship with 512M of RAM.





From jasonb at edseek.com  Mon Dec 19 20:49:32 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:49:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the 
	powerconnector?
In-Reply-To: <20051220013848.27370.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C32@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
	<20051220013848.27370.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20107.69.69.152.222.1135043372.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>

Bryan J. Smith said:
> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> w
rote:
<snip>
>> I think I'll skip them, given that I've sent back two
>> retail PCI-E cards as is, I don't want to even try a
> refurb.
>
> Yeah, same here.

It's hit and miss.  My Saphire 9600 SE was a newegg refurb.  Came with all
the accessories, even though you're only guaranteed to get the bare card. 
I've heard from people have never have issues with Newegg's refurbs and
people who have, so ymmv.  (Of course after two new cards failing, I
wouldn't want to mess with refurbs either...)





From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com  Mon Dec 19 20:57:12 2005
From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Whaxiac Patrick)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:57:12 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] cpu grease
In-Reply-To: <20051219222148.25316.qmail@web50115.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051219222148.25316.qmail@web50115.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200512192057.13087.pberry2@cfl.rr.com>

On Monday 19 December 2005 17:21, scott anderson wrote:
> Hello.
> I am making a pc for my father-in-law for christmas.
> I went to the computer show and got a good deal of the
> parts, and now I am putting it together.  Everything
> is going ok, but I notice that the manual that came
> with the motherboard says that I should put grease
> between the cpu and the fan/heatsink.  The cpu manual
> doesn't talk about grease, and didn't come with it.  I
> have googled and found too much information.
> As always, Thanks
>

I use the thinnist layer of Arctic Silver that is possible, as any excess will 
just splurge over the edges, wasted.  One tube will probably last a lifetime.

Look at this web site, and all the instructions/photos:  
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm
-- 
http://livecdlist.com  http://distrowatch.com  http://yolinux.com
http://safeharbordome.com  http://minidome.net  http://monolithicdome.com


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 19 21:03:16 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:03:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] cpu grease
In-Reply-To: <43A73D11.4010407@emmanuelcomputerconsulting.com>
Message-ID: <20051220020316.10178.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

William Warren wrote:
> jsut get arctic silver cpu paste.  Can't go wrong with
> it..however a little bit goes a long way..remember that.

Actually, you can.

Depending on the product, Arctic Silver can be electrically
conductive.  This was an issue in the early days of flip-chip
packages, when some microelectronics were exposed on the
package.

Although that is no longer the case with heat speaders, it
can still overflow/drip if the CPU is vertical.  So be
careful!

Frankly, just some thermal paste from Radio Shack is
typically "good enough."  Not ideal, but it was typically
better than the "pads" included with CPUs.

Newer AMD and Intel CPUs in retail boxes are actually
shipping with half-way decent thermal "pads" now, very light,
almost a solidified paste.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 19 21:24:29 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:24:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <43A7531F.4010104@mcdonough.net>
Message-ID: <20051220022429.49338.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Tim McDonough <tim at mcdonough.net> wrote:
> I'm looking for recommendations on a good deal for
> motherboard and CPU combos for general office type
> applications.

Funny you should ask ... I have an extra mainboard+CPU combo,
all tested and ready-to-go.  ;-ppp

> Need a built-in LAN and video.

nVidia GeForce 61x0 + nForce 4x0 is low-cost and proven.

The GF6100+nF410 starts at $50.
The nF430 has GbE and starts at around $65.

64-bit NUMA/HyperTransport AMD Socket-754 CPUs start at just
over $50 as well.  Add whatever DDR SDRAM you want from there
from PC1600 (DDR200) to PC3200 (DDR400).  PC1600 (DDR200) or
PC2100 (DDR333) works without slowing down the rest of the
system. 

> I have accumulated up 3 ATX machines with motherboards that
> have various maladies such as dead video, dead LAN ports,
etc.
> I'd like to refurb them and be able to use them for 
> interns and part time help. No exotic apps, just basic word
> processing and maybe some spreadsheet work along with one
app
> for our truck system that has low demands. The machines
will
> use WinXP Pro.
> With most things electronics the rule is "Fast, Reliable,
> Inexpensive.   Pick any two". I need reliable and
inexpensive.

The GF6100+nF410 is definitely reliable, inexpensive and,
surprisingly, pretty fast.

> Quiet would be a plus.

All the GF6100+nF410 mainboards I've seen are 100% passively
cooled.  The CPU will then have a fan, but you can get fairly
largely and slower RPM (quiet) ones.  The stock retail ones
aren't bad at all AFAIAC.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Mon Dec 19 21:26:54 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 18:26:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <43A75668.9090309@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <20051220022654.391.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
> Oh, I can't resist .... WalMart has AMD Sempron-64 systems,
> model # SR1603WM-B, for $448.00, w/ XP already there, 256
MB
> RAM, 80 GB HDD, w/17" Flat-screen monitor, a turn-key
solution.

Actually, other than the small amount of RAM, those are a
pretty good deal for general office usage.  You don't need a
big HD, the  Socket-939 Sempron will do nicely, and the
included video and monitor is nice.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith  b.j.smith at ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
"On the basis of the American view, which may be right, the
 success of the Iraqi political experiment is bound to provide
 a model to be emulated in Syria and in the various countries
 neighbouring Iraq" -- Nur-Al-Din, Al-Safir (Lebanon Periocial)


From tim at mcdonough.net  Mon Dec 19 23:08:33 2005
From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:08:33 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <20051220022429.49338.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051220022429.49338.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A783C1.7020007@mcdonough.net>

So, do you have some of these for sale? Which brand?

Tim

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> Tim McDonough <tim at mcdonough.net> wrote:
> 
>>I'm looking for recommendations on a good deal for
>>motherboard and CPU combos for general office type
>>applications.
> 
> 
> Funny you should ask ... I have an extra mainboard+CPU combo,
> all tested and ready-to-go.  ;-ppp
> 
> 
>>Need a built-in LAN and video.
> 
> 
> nVidia GeForce 61x0 + nForce 4x0 is low-cost and proven.
> 
> The GF6100+nF410 starts at $50.
> The nF430 has GbE and starts at around $65.
> 
> 64-bit NUMA/HyperTransport AMD Socket-754 CPUs start at just
> over $50 as well.  Add whatever DDR SDRAM you want from there
> from PC1600 (DDR200) to PC3200 (DDR400).  PC1600 (DDR200) or
> PC2100 (DDR333) works without slowing down the rest of the
> system. 
> 
> 
>>I have accumulated up 3 ATX machines with motherboards that
>>have various maladies such as dead video, dead LAN ports,
> 
> etc.
> 
>>I'd like to refurb them and be able to use them for 
>>interns and part time help. No exotic apps, just basic word
>>processing and maybe some spreadsheet work along with one
> 
> app
> 
>>for our truck system that has low demands. The machines
> 
> will
> 
>>use WinXP Pro.
>>With most things electronics the rule is "Fast, Reliable,
>>Inexpensive.   Pick any two". I need reliable and
> 
> inexpensive.
> 
> The GF6100+nF410 is definitely reliable, inexpensive and,
> surprisingly, pretty fast.
> 
> 
>>Quiet would be a plus.
> 
> 
> All the GF6100+nF410 mainboards I've seen are 100% passively
> cooled.  The CPU will then have a fan, but you can get fairly
> largely and slower RPM (quiet) ones.  The stock retail ones
> aren't bad at all AFAIAC.
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Tim


From damien at mc-kenna.com  Mon Dec 19 23:29:11 2005
From: damien at mc-kenna.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 23:29:11 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] PCI-Express video cards that need the powerconnector?
In-Reply-To: <20051220013848.27370.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051220013848.27370.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A78897.1060305@mc-kenna.com>

Bryan J. Smith wrote:
>> The TC models are more of a drain on system resources than
>> I care to try, I've had enough of onboard video, and as-is I
>> could do with some more RAM anyway.
>>     
> 6200TCs are _not_ on-board video.  They have a local
> framebuffer, and whatever is left over is used for texture --
> until it's not enough.  The 256MiB models have 64MiB on-card.
You're right, not sure why I called it "on-board".  I just don't want to 
add any extra drain to the system than is needed.
>> I'm interested in the abilities to re-encode video from
>> source MPEG2.
>>     
>
> MJPEGTools?  And there are countless tools for Windows.
>   
I've got a few for Windows that I use.  I'm using the same software as 
my parents, so that I can help them remotely if they have problems.  Of 
course by now my mom probably knows how to use it more than I do, but 
she's been getting classes in it ;-)
>> I've got a USB video capture widget
>>     
>
> Ouch!  EHCI (USB 2.0) I hope?
>   
Yeppers.  I had a choice of a OHCI device for $30 or EHCI for $50, and 
went with the $50.  I haven't tried it out yet, but my parents get good 
mileage from their device which is just about the same thing.
> I'm a strict FireWire dude on Digital Video (DV) for various
> reasons.
>   
Same here, except for when coming from VHS.  Our camcorder is Mini-DV 
and works great, but there are times when you need something to grab 
your VHS source.
>> Once ATI gains more support for its Avivo facilities it
>> should be a major boost to productivity.
>>     
>
> I don't see how the ATI chip benefits you when the video is
> already captured and on your hard disk?
I'm thinking of two aspects.  Should third-parties (specifically the 
authors of my chosen video grabbing software) start supporting Avivo 
I'll see an improvement in capture capabilities.  Also, it'll simply 
speed up the output/conversion process, and the stats are looking so 
good with the capabilities of the basic software itself (see the 
Anandtech preview) that with hardware encoding thrown in it should 
dramatically improve my productivity in this regard.

I ended up going for the X1600Pro, it was cheaper than the comparable 
6600 models I was looking at and ultimately will be more useful for me.  
I'll let you know how it goes.

-- 
Damien McKenna, husband, father, geek.
damien at mc-kenna.com - http://www.mc-kenna.com/



From wam at HiWAAY.net  Tue Dec 20 00:36:21 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 23:36:21 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <19868.69.69.152.222.1135042119.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>
References: <43A7531F.4010104@mcdonough.net> <43A75668.9090309@HiWAAY.net>
	<19868.69.69.152.222.1135042119.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>
Message-ID: <43A79855.3060001@HiWAAY.net>

Jason Boxman wrote:

>William A. Mahaffey III said:
><snip>
>  
>
>>Oh, I can't resist .... WalMart has AMD Sempron-64 systems, model #
>>SR1603WM-B, for $448.00, w/ XP already there, 256 MB RAM, 80 GB HDD, w/
>>17" Flat-screen monitor, a turn-key solution. Buddy of mine got 1 for
>>his daughter. Not bad for a 7-year-old girl to have her own 64-bit PC
>>:-). It is (considerably) faster than CRAY's I worked on in the mid
>>'80's ....
>>    
>>
>
>First you want to bump it up to 512M.  It's insane that in this day and age
>XP systems don't come with at least 512M.  Even the junk cheap systems ought
>to ship with 512M of RAM.
>  
>

Yeah, roger that, especially w/ WinXP or other M$FT PIG OS's. But still 
.... 64-bit HOSS box for your 7-year-old daughter, don't that just tug 
at yer heart-strings just a little ?

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

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From wam at HiWAAY.net  Tue Dec 20 00:42:57 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 23:42:57 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <20051220022654.391.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051220022654.391.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A799E1.3030902@HiWAAY.net>

Bryan J. Smith wrote:

>"William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>Oh, I can't resist .... WalMart has AMD Sempron-64 systems,
>>model # SR1603WM-B, for $448.00, w/ XP already there, 256
>>    
>>
>MB
>  
>
>>RAM, 80 GB HDD, w/17" Flat-screen monitor, a turn-key
>>    
>>
>solution.
>
>Actually, other than the small amount of RAM, those are a
>pretty good deal for general office usage.  You don't need a
>big HD, the  Socket-939 Sempron will do nicely, and the
>included video and monitor is nice.
>  
>

Roger that on the RAM (again), but *EVERYTHING* else just measures up 
*SO* nice, & RAM is pretty cheap & easy these days ....

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

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From whittake at sbaflorida.com  Tue Dec 20 10:50:08 2005
From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:50:08 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <20051220022654.391.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051220022654.391.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43A82830.9000200@sbaflorida.com>



Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> "William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
> 
>>Oh, I can't resist .... WalMart has AMD Sempron-64 systems,
>>model # SR1603WM-B, for $448.00, w/ XP already there, 256
> 
> MB
> 
>>RAM, 80 GB HDD, w/17" Flat-screen monitor, a turn-key
> 
> solution.
> 
> Actually, other than the small amount of RAM, those are a
> pretty good deal for general office usage.  You don't need a
> big HD, the  Socket-939 Sempron will do nicely, and the
> included video and monitor is nice.
> 
> 
> I could not find my message either.  Oh well!

Bryan:  This is my THIRD message on this item.  I thought you might have 
   sold it since I did not get a reply!

Apparently the board works under Fedora but will it work in Debian AMD64
and Debian 32 bit?
Will it handle any and all DDR memory chips as you indicated in a
previous message?

Guess what I am asking is can one expect that most of the newer boards
to be 64 bit and whatever that implies for the 32 bit world?  I have
found that most of the apps that I normally use can be utilized on my
Asus amd64 machine, and they seem to be faster.
Homer Whittaker





From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 20 10:57:11 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 07:57:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <43A82830.9000200@sbaflorida.com>
Message-ID: <20051220155711.31613.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Homer Whittaker <whittake at sbaflorida.com> wrote:

> Bryan:  This is my THIRD message on this item.  I thought
> you might have sold it since I did not get a reply!

Nope, I still have it.

> Apparently the board works under Fedora but will it work in
> Debian AMD64 and Debian 32 bit?

Don't know.

I've run Windows XP (32-bit) and Fedora Core 4 (x86-64) on
it.  Drivers should match between the 32-bit and 64-bit Linux
versions.

> Will it handle any and all DDR memory chips as you
> indicated in a previous message?

Yes.

> Guess what I am asking is can one expect that most of the
> newer boards to be 64 bit and whatever that implies for
> the 32 bit world?

The chips run both.  The Linux kernel typically includes the
same drivers for both.  It's really just a different memory
model (48-bit v. 32-bit) and little else.

> I have found that most of the apps that I normally use can
be
> utilized on my Asus amd64 machine, and they seem to be
faster.

There are some performance advantages, but other than when
you pass 1-2GiB RAM, it's really the chip design that is the
biggest difference -- in either 32-bit or 64-bit.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith     Professional, Technical Annoyance                      b.j.smith at ieee.org      http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
*** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Tue Dec 20 11:04:39 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:04:39 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C59@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Apparently the board works under Fedora but will it work in 
> Debian AMD64 and Debian 32 bit?

It should do.  I've ran Ubuntu/64 on my nForce4 motherboard and this is
very similar.

> Will it handle any and all DDR memory chips as you indicated in a
> previous message?

Unless I'm mistaken you have to add DDR strips to an Athlon64-based
system with DIMMs the same size, i.e. you can't mix a 512mb and 256mb,
and they must be the same speed, but aside from that you should be able
to use any of them.  Note that I could be wrong on the size-mixing, I do
remember it being an issue at least early on and I've not heard much on
it since then.

> Guess what I am asking is can one expect that most of the newer boards
> to be 64 bit and whatever that implies for the 32 bit world?  I have
> found that most of the apps that I normally use can be utilized on my
> Asus amd64 machine, and they seem to be faster.

Correct, you've still got a darn fast CPU that can run 32bit code really
well.  The difficulty comes with mixing 64bit software with 32bit
software, specifically if you are running a 64bit OS and have to use a
32bit browser because of plugins (Flash comes to mind), and then its
more of a case of it not being as fast as it should be and maybe some
path / symlink problems.  The best bet is to start with a distro that
works close to the way you want out of the box and then update it as
needed, e.g. in the Debian world Ubuntu works really well.

Damien


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Tue Dec 20 11:40:18 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:40:18 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] BackupExec & Exchange agent options
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C61@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

We've got MS Exchange 2000 and back it up using BackupExec 10.
Yesterday I realized that the backup selection included both the
individual mailboxes *and* the actual mail store files, so when I
unchecked the mail store files there was a huge amount of free space
left on the tape.  Tonight I'm going to try it the other way around,
backing up the mail store and not the individual mailboxes, but it got
me wondering which was the best way of doing it?  Thanks.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 20 11:56:51 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:56:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C59@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051220165651.55811.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> Unless I'm mistaken 

You are.

> you have to add DDR strips to an Athlon64-based system with
> DIMMs the same size, i.e. you can't mix a 512mb and 256mb,
> and they must be the same speed,

Synchronous clock, yes, of course.

But same size?  _Incorrect_.

You _only_ need to match DIMM size (including matching
IC/width on the DIMM) when you are using a Socket-939/940 and
the DIMMs are matched for dual-channel 128-bit access. 
That's because the CPU is reading from both DIMMs
simultaneously -- over exactly 368 traces (two 184-pin DDR
channels).

Now if you have 4 DIMM slots per CPU, you can have 2
completely different _pairs_ from each other.  E.g., 2x512
and 2x256.

On a Socket-754, you can do what you want, as it is only a
single DDR channel.  I.e., only 184 traces.

> but aside from that you should be able to use any of them.
> Note that I could be wrong on the size-mixing, I do
> remember it being an issue at least early on and I've not
> heard much on it since then.

It's not an "issue."  It's a requirement for Socket-939/940. 
The CPU is reading/writing a full 128-bit wide path.  So it
needs each pair of DIMMs, 64-bit each, to be _exactly_
matching -- IC size, width, latency, etc...

If you have 4 DIMMs, then you can have 2 different pairs of
DIMMs, each a matching set. 

> Correct, you've still got a darn fast CPU that can run
> 32bit code really well.  The difficulty comes with mixing
> 64bit software with 32bit software, specifically if you are
> running a 64bit OS and have to use a
> 32bit browser because of plugins (Flash comes to mind), and
> then its more of a case of it not being as fast as it
should
> be and maybe some path / symlink problems.

As I explained in my blog entry here:  

http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/10/what-is-x86-64-long-mode-memory-model.html



-- 
Bryan J. Smith     Professional, Technical Annoyance                      b.j.smith at ieee.org      http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
*** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Tue Dec 20 12:03:11 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:03:11 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] MB/CPU combo for general office use
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1C64@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

> Damien McKenna <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:
> > Unless I'm mistaken 
> 
> You are.

Thanks for clearing that up, Bryan.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From philb at philb.us  Fri Dec 23 23:05:47 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:05:47 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Looking for old stereo to donate to a teenager.
Message-ID: <200512232305.47541.philb@philb.us>


I have a young friend who would like any old stereo for christmas. He has 
speakers but no electronics.

If any of you here in Orlando have an old receiver you don't want any more, 
I'd give it a good home.

Reply direct.

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From whittake at sbaflorida.com  Sat Dec 24 16:18:58 2005
From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker)
Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2005 16:18:58 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Looking for old stereo to donate to a teenager.
In-Reply-To: <200512232305.47541.philb@philb.us>
References: <200512232305.47541.philb@philb.us>
Message-ID: <43ADBB42.3020205@sbaflorida.com>

Phil:  I have several.  One was/is top of the line back when I was 
messin with the stuff.  Also a bunch of associated stuff.

AND, the price is right.  A Debian amd64 DVD and if available and there 
is such a thing, an Open BSC for 64 bit.  In fact I will also replace 
the DVD's you use.
I'll be home for Christmas :)  at least most of the time.
Homer Whittaker


Phil Barnett wrote:
> I have a young friend who would like any old stereo for christmas. He has 
> speakers but no electronics.
> 
> If any of you here in Orlando have an old receiver you don't want any more, 
> I'd give it a good home.
> 
> Reply direct.
> 


From wam at HiWAAY.net  Sun Dec 25 16:23:27 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 15:23:27 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems ....
Message-ID: <43AF0DCF.20406@HiWAAY.net>


.... I have a 2.4 GHz P4 running SuSE 9.2, box stock, kernel 2.4.20-4GB, 
using reiserfs for all native filesystems (Std. SuSE practice). I have 
the system disk (20 GB WD, generic IDE 100) partitioned w/ 2 partitions, 
/ & swap. I have /home on a separate HDD, 160 GB Samsung, about 6 mos. 
old, from NewEgg. It is partitioned as 1 big partition, taking up the 
whole drive. I use this box to backup several other machines on my LAN, 
using TAR (1) to create gzipped tar archives in an archive directory 
under /home (on the 160 GB drive). That process kicks off every night 
about midnight under CRON (1). I am having reliability/stability 
problems with this process, which I only began doing a few weeks ago 
(before that, I used 1 on my SGI Octanes for this task, but I had a HDD 
go out on it, so I switched to the 2.4 GHz P4). The directories from the 
other machines are mounted using AUTOMOUNT & NFS. I attach the syslog 
entries from last night's botched backup. Are there any known problems 
w/ automount/nfs under SuSE 9.2 or Linux more generally ? How about 
interacting w/ SGI's (2 of the boxes I am backing up are SGI's) ? 
Whenever I reboot, things go OK for 2 or 3 days, then screw up .... TIA 
& merry Christmas :-).

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

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From dave at dgnal.net  Tue Dec 27 02:08:04 2005
From: dave at dgnal.net (David Simmons)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 01:08:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] [OT] PSP V2.01 uses?
In-Reply-To: <20051219175738.82197.qmail@web34108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051219175738.82197.qmail@web34108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3537.71.252.176.10.1135667284.squirrel@qtmail.dgnal.net>

am getting the chance to play with a Sony PSP that has V2.01
firmware....from many googlings, it seems like you can't downgrade this
firmware to take advantage of the homebrew games....or any kind of umd iso
emulation....so my question, does anyone know of demo games and/or demo
software to run while we wait for the V2.01 hacks?

Thx - Dave



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 27 13:06:09 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:06:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems .... -- NFS
	exported ReiserFS = bad things
In-Reply-To: <43AF0DCF.20406@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <20051227180609.52250.qmail@web34114.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Before I begin ...

A)  I could use your NFS automounter maps (showing all your
mount options)

B)  Any other information you could provide on your NFS
configuration could be very useful.


"William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
> .... I have a 2.4 GHz P4 running SuSE 9.2, box stock,
> kernel 2.4.20-4GB, using reiserfs for all native
filesystems
> (Std. SuSE practice).

Unfortunately, SuSE has different foci than ... say ... Red
Hat.  We'll get to that in a bit.  ;->

> I have the system disk (20 GB WD, generic IDE 100)
partitioned
> / 2 partitions, / & swap. I have /home on a separate HDD,
160
> GB Samsung, about 6 mos. old, from NewEgg. It is
partitioned
> as 1 big partition, taking up the whole drive. I use this
box
> to backup several other machines on my LAN, using TAR (1)
to
> create gzipped tar archives in an archive directory under
> /home (on the 160 GB drive).

Software compressing streaming archives (like ustar**) whole
with software compressors (like LZ77 via gzip and many
others) means that a single bit error can render the entire
stream _unrecoverable_ after that point.  Some software
compressors (like BTW via bzip2) do better blocking, but it's
still not ideal (let alone slow).

This risk can be mitigated by either A) using a hardware
block compressor, although that can make the backup
hardware/vendor specific, or B) by compressing files as they
are added into the stream, instead of the stream itself.  B
is the most portable and safest option, and can be
implemented by software such as afio:  
  http://freshmeat.net/projects/afio/  

Afio is SysV cpio (pre POSIX-2001/SuSv3 "ustar"**) compatible
to 8GiB (GNU cpio to 2GiB).  I've been using it for about a
half decade on countless platforms.

[ **NOTE:  "ustar" is the generic name for "modern" POSIX tar
and SysV cpio formats -- circa 1989+.  tar defaults to a
10KiB blocking.  SysV cpio defaults to a 5KiB blocking. 
There are various limitations with the pre POSIX-2001/SuSv3
revisions and the introduction of a new ustar binary known as
"pax".  GNU Tar has many non-standard/non-compliant
options/formats, although the new Tar 1.15+ is attempting
more compliance with POSIX-2001/SuSv3.  Jorg's "star" is far
more compliant, including full POSIX ACLs, although I've had
issues with it.  In a nutshell, I like to use afio and use
getfacl/setfacl to backup POSIX ACLs on files (storing the
ACLs in a file with the archive).  Either that, or just use
XFS with its xfsdump that gets _all_ POSIX Extended
Attributes (EAs) such as ACLs, SELinux attributes, etc... --
although XFS on 2.6, as well as the 2.4 backport, has been
questionable versus the official SGI releases. ]

The nice thing about stream formats is that they _can_ be
piped over SSH quite easily.  This would probably be far more
_reliable_ than over a NFS mount (let alone more secure).  I
used to have a HOWTO on this on-line.  I'll repost it to my
Blog over the next few days (still getting "caught up" after
being in Hawaii for the past 6 days).

> That process kicks off every night about midnight under
CRON
> (1). I am having reliability/stability problems with this 
> process, which I only began doing a few weeks ago 
> (before that, I used 1 on my SGI Octanes for this task, but
> I had a HDD go out on it, so I switched to the 2.4 GHz P4).

Of course!

Keys ...

1)  ReiserFS was _never_ designed for traditional UNIX
compatibility, and kernel NFS server has _always_ been its
Achillies' heel.  Just ask SuSE.  ;->  I.e., even SuSE told
me to use Ext3 for NFS a long time ago.  The ReiserFS NFS
support continues to be a VFS-level "hack" (long story ;-).

2)  The NFS client in Linux _sucks_, and continues to suck
_hard_ compared to other UNIX flavors.  ;->  I.e., it's
obvious to me that NFS is _not_ a priority with Linus & co.,
which leaves me with 6+ years of trusting only *1* Linux
vendor with my reliable NFS duties.

[ SIDE NOTE:  If I had to build a production NFS server
today, it would run Solaris/Opteron -- long, long story.  ;-]

3)  The NFS server in Linux has serious TCP support issues
(i.e., force "udp" on the client).

4)  Alan Cox et. al. continues to insist the server/client
default to 1KiB blocks, which is more for async response time
than actual reliability/throughput.  Furthermore, the Linux
kernel is typically only built to support 8KiB blocks max by
default (the default of NFSv2), when NFSv3 defaults to 32KiB.
(i.e., explicitly force "rsize=8192,wsize=8192" on all
clients)

5)  I also recommend you force the version to "3", to ensure
NFS v3 searver operation, of which Linux's NFS server is
largely IETF NFS v3 compliant (the client is a whole other
issue though, long story ;-).  Linux's NFSv2 support was
_never_ IETF NFS v2 compliant (even longer story).

> The directories from the other machines are mounted using
> AUTOMOUNT & NFS. I attach the syslog entries from last
night's
> botched backup. Are there any known problems w/
automount/nfs
> under SuSE 9.2 or Linux more generally ?

See above.  ;->

> How about interacting w/ SGI's (2 of the boxes I am backing
up
> are SGI's) ?  Whenever I reboot, things go OK for 2 or 3
days,
> then screw up .... TIA & merry Christmas :-).

Again ...

A)  Don't use ReiserFS for data on Linux NFS servers, serve
only exports from Ext3 filesystems (your non-NFS exported
filesystems can be ReiserFS).  Alternatively, you could try
XFS, but I don't trust anything but XFS directly from SGI
(which is CVS after the RHL9/XFS1.3 release).

B)  Force "udp" (possibly "proto=udp" -- check your UNIX NFS
client's mount/nfs man pages) from your NFS clients to Linux
NFS servers

C)  Force "rsize=8192,wsize=8192" (again, check your NFS
client's mount/nfs man pages) to explicitly force 8KiB blocks

D)  It can't hurt to force "vers=3" (possibly "version=3" --
check the client's mount/nfs man pages)

Other options to consider ... "async" or "sync" (Linux's NFS
v3 server should implement these as IETF NFS v3 dictates --
don't get me started on Linux's NFS v2), "bg", "intr" and
"hard" (_never_ "soft" link from Linux NFS servers).

> Dec 25 00:10:01 INTC2400A automount[7919]: >> nfs server
> reported tcp not available, falling back to udp

Again, use UDP.

> Dec 25 01:19:48 INTC2400A kernel: Unable to handle kernel
> paging request at virtual address fe67e182

Welcome to kernel NFS atop of ReiserFS.  Have a nice kernel
panic.  ;->



-- 
Bryan J. Smith     Professional, Technical Annoyance                      b.j.smith at ieee.org      http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
*** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***


From wam at HiWAAY.net  Tue Dec 27 15:47:36 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:47:36 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems .... -- NFS
 exported ReiserFS = bad things
In-Reply-To: <20051227180609.52250.qmail@web34114.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051227180609.52250.qmail@web34114.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B1A868.2080808@HiWAAY.net>

Bryan J. Smith wrote:

>Before I begin ...
>
>A)  I could use your NFS automounter maps (showing all your
>mount options)
>
>B)  Any other information you could provide on your NFS
>configuration could be very useful.
>
>
>"William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>.... I have a 2.4 GHz P4 running SuSE 9.2, box stock,
>>kernel 2.4.20-4GB, using reiserfs for all native filesystems
>>    
>>
>>(Std. SuSE practice).
>>    
>>
>
>Unfortunately, SuSE has different foci than ... say ... Red
>Hat.  We'll get to that in a bit.  ;->
>
>  
>
<SNIP !!!!>

>>That process kicks off every night about midnight under CRON
>>    
>>
>>(1). I am having reliability/stability problems with this 
>>process, which I only began doing a few weeks ago 
>>(before that, I used 1 on my SGI Octanes for this task, but
>>I had a HDD go out on it, so I switched to the 2.4 GHz P4).
>>    
>>
>
>Of course!
>
>Keys ...
>
>1)  ReiserFS was _never_ designed for traditional UNIX
>compatibility, and kernel NFS server has _always_ been its
>Achillies' heel.  Just ask SuSE.  ;->  I.e., even SuSE told
>me to use Ext3 for NFS a long time ago.  The ReiserFS NFS
>support continues to be a VFS-level "hack" (long story ;-).
>
>2)  The NFS client in Linux _sucks_, and continues to suck
>_hard_ compared to other UNIX flavors.  ;->  I.e., it's
>obvious to me that NFS is _not_ a priority with Linus & co.,
>which leaves me with 6+ years of trusting only *1* Linux
>vendor with my reliable NFS duties.
>
>[ SIDE NOTE:  If I had to build a production NFS server
>today, it would run Solaris/Opteron -- long, long story.  ;-]
>
>3)  The NFS server in Linux has serious TCP support issues
>(i.e., force "udp" on the client).
>
>4)  Alan Cox et. al. continues to insist the server/client
>default to 1KiB blocks, which is more for async response time
>than actual reliability/throughput.  Furthermore, the Linux
>kernel is typically only built to support 8KiB blocks max by
>default (the default of NFSv2), when NFSv3 defaults to 32KiB.
>(i.e., explicitly force "rsize=8192,wsize=8192" on all
>clients)
>
>5)  I also recommend you force the version to "3", to ensure
>NFS v3 searver operation, of which Linux's NFS server is
>largely IETF NFS v3 compliant (the client is a whole other
>issue though, long story ;-).  Linux's NFSv2 support was
>_never_ IETF NFS v2 compliant (even longer story).
>
>  
>
>>The directories from the other machines are mounted using
>>AUTOMOUNT & NFS. I attach the syslog entries from last night's
>>    
>>
>>botched backup. Are there any known problems w/ automount/nfs
>>    
>>
>>under SuSE 9.2 or Linux more generally ?
>>    
>>
>
>See above.  ;->
>
>  
>
>>How about interacting w/ SGI's (2 of the boxes I am backing up
>>    
>>
>>are SGI's) ?  Whenever I reboot, things go OK for 2 or 3 days,
>>    
>>
>>then screw up .... TIA & merry Christmas :-).
>>    
>>
>
>Again ...
>
>A)  Don't use ReiserFS for data on Linux NFS servers, serve
>only exports from Ext3 filesystems (your non-NFS exported
>filesystems can be ReiserFS).  Alternatively, you could try
>XFS, but I don't trust anything but XFS directly from SGI
>(which is CVS after the RHL9/XFS1.3 release).
>
>B)  Force "udp" (possibly "proto=udp" -- check your UNIX NFS
>client's mount/nfs man pages) from your NFS clients to Linux
>NFS servers
>
>C)  Force "rsize=8192,wsize=8192" (again, check your NFS
>client's mount/nfs man pages) to explicitly force 8KiB blocks
>
>D)  It can't hurt to force "vers=3" (possibly "version=3" --
>check the client's mount/nfs man pages)
>
>Other options to consider ... "async" or "sync" (Linux's NFS
>v3 server should implement these as IETF NFS v3 dictates --
>don't get me started on Linux's NFS v2), "bg", "intr" and
>"hard" (_never_ "soft" link from Linux NFS servers).
>
>  
>
<snip>

Welcome to kernel NFS atop of ReiserFS. Have a nice kernel panic. ;->

Thanks :-).



Whew !!!! :-). Sooo .... short answer, yup, there *ARE* issues w/ 
Reiserfs/NFS under Linux. Someone else on LUNA has consistently voiced 
this concern (about Reiserfs), I just went along w/ the SuSE installer, 
gave them a bit more credit than they deserve, apparently. Old habit 
from years of dealing w/ SGI's; their software is far more thoroughly 
tested than most Linux, something I have bitched about in the past & for 
which I *DO NOT* accept various excuses about open source paradigm as 
the reason, or as a reason I should like it :-).

I attach my relevent automount (8) files. They are quite simple :-). My 
NFS is box-stock SuSE 9.2 NFS. Man NFS sez it does indeed default to 
NFS3, but w/ 1 KB reads/writes. I mount *everything* in my LAN using 
automount/autofs, no hard mounts in various SGI/linux /etc/fstab's. When 
I do my backup, the Linux box is a client for the various boxen it is 
trying to back up, though it is a NFS server as well ....

I have a 400 GB Samsung I am about to add to this box, can/should I use 
ext3 on that drive, then reformat/redo the 160 GB into ext3 as well ?

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

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From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Tue Dec 27 17:09:19 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:09:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems .... -- NFS
	exported ReiserFS = bad things
In-Reply-To: <43B1A868.2080808@HiWAAY.net>
Message-ID: <20051227220919.4220.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
> Whew !!!! :-). Sooo .... short answer, yup, there *ARE*
> issues w/ Reiserfs/NFS under Linux.

There always have been since I first tried it in 1999.  There
always will be, because ReiserFS is _not_ a UNIX filesystem
design.  It goes to the heart of Hans Reiser's attitude --
which has both its positives and negatives.

> Someone else on LUNA has consistently voiced this concern
> (about Reiserfs), I just went along w/ the SuSE installer, 
> gave them a bit more credit than they deserve, apparently.
> Old habit from years of dealing w/ SGI's; their software
> is far more thoroughly tested than most Linux,

Excuse me?  Don't make that statement.

Understand that Linus doesn't seem to care much about NFS. 
And SuSE has never really followed NFS much.  So much so that
SuSE recommended Red Hat Ext3 to me, explicitly, back in
2000.

SGI's XFS releases for Linux 2.4 were superb.  Other than 1
critical flaw in the 1.0 release for Red Hat Linux 7.x, they
were outstanding, extremely compatible and feature filled. 
Unfortunately, Red Hat sees fit to keep extended Ext3,
instead of realizing that XFS already solves all its
problems.

And, unfortunately, the last official XFS release for Linux
was 1.3.x for Red Hat Linux 9.  The XFS release that has been
integrated into 2.6 is _crap_, and has NFS issues.  The XFS
backport to 2.4 is even worse -- stick with the official
1.3.x release for RHL9 if you want something for 2.4.

Which leaves us with basically Ext3 for NFS and nothing else.

JFS was ported from OS/2, instead of AIX**, which means it
also had virtually no UNIX compatibility.  That's what kept
me from adopting JFS as well.

> something I have bitched about in the past & for which I
*DO
> NOT* accept various excuses about open source paradigm as 
> the reason, or as a reason I should like it :-).

The problem (and this is my _strong_ opinion) is that Linus,
SuSE and basically no one outside of Cox and Red Hat give a
damn about kernel NFS support.

> I attach my relevent automount (8) files. They are quite
> simple :-). My NFS is box-stock SuSE 9.2 NFS. Man NFS sez
it
> does indeed default to NFS3, but w/ 1 KB reads/writes. I
mount
> *everything* in my LAN using automount/autofs, no hard
mounts
> in various SGI/linux /etc/fstab's.

When I say "hard," I'm _not_ talking about "/etc/fstab"
versus "automounter."  It's _not_ about timeouts.

By "hard" I mean "hard" as in how the NFS mount is made --
versus "soft."  A "hard" mount means client commits cannot be
broken by the client, a "soft" mount means it can.  Now
"intr" means a client process _can_ break a commit, which is
why I recommend "hard,intr".

I'm not talking about unmounting after a period of timeout. 
I'm talking about whether or not you want NFS to act
"stateless" like SMB, and let clients break the entire mount
in the middle of commits.  The "SMB way" (soft) = bad things
man.  ;->

> When I do my backup, the Linux box is a client for the
various
> boxen it is trying to back up, though it is a NFS server as
> well ....

Ewww, cross-mounts.  ;->
I know, I know, automounter helps, but I don't recommend it.

> I have a 400 GB Samsung I am about to add to this box,
> can/should I use ext3 on that drive, then reformat/redo
> the 160 GB into ext3 as well ?

Whatever filesystem you _export_ (i.e., server), you want to
make Ext3.

> *				&:/home
> *		-fstype=nfs		&:/usr/people
> *		-fstype=nfs		&:/work

You really need to add options like (these are the Linux
client options, change as appropriate for SGI) ...

  -fstype=nfs,vers=3,rsize=8192,rsize=8192,bg,hard,intr

You want to be _explicit_ anytime you are using _either_
Linux NFS server _or_ client on the read/write block size. 
8KiB is a "safe bet" because all Linux kernel's I've seen
support it for both client and service, and virtually all
UNIX server and client flavors I've seen support it because
8KiB is the default for NFSv2 (32KiB being the default for
NFSv3).  Yes, use 8KiB even for NFSv3 (and _never_ use the
Linux NFS _server_ in NFSv2 mode).

You also want to make sure the mounts are hard, but
interruptable.  That way you don't get corruptions
(especially to Linux NFS _servers_), but programs that can
interrupt their own commits will work proper.  _Avoid_ using
"soft", which can often be the default.

-- Bryan

**NOTE:  The decision to port IBM JFS from OS/2 instead of
AIX was made in 1999, when IBM was still working with SCO on
Project Monterey, and honoring its Non-Compete clause for
anything related to Linux, which could be used for IA-64
since that was agreed to be SCO's market.  Project Monterey
is a 64-bit version of UNIX for IBM Power and Intel IA-64, in
the market domains of IBM and SCO, respectively.  It wasn't
until 20 days after SCO bought Caldera in 2000 that IBM broke
the contract.  As disclosed by Ransom Love (co-founder of
Caldera, now an officer with Progeny, the commercial
organization of Ian Murdock, founder of Debian) in his fall
2003 interview with Ziff-Davis, IBM did not like the fact
that SCO-Caldera would have a split Monterey-Linux IA-64
offering, which would compete with their split Monterey-Linux
Power offering -- something IBM clearly feared because of
Intel's economies of scale and existing marketshare (NOTE: 
this was before AMD's x86-64 arrived).

This is the reason for the original March 2003 filing,
summarized in items #50-55, which is why Linus, ESR and many
others called it a "contract dispute" that had nothing to do
with Linux.  Items #1-49 were "build up" of general
accusations with regards to how IBM hurt SCO's position with
regard to their agreeing not to compete in Linux space -- SCO
actually didn't have to prove any IP transfer to Linux, just
that IBM helped Linux in violation of the Non-Compete.  Of
course, most Linux people saw items #1-49 as inflammatory and
anti-Linux -- I mean, it's not like SCO could say, "hey, IBM
helped Linux, but not much."  But it was the association and
resulting anti-SCO rhetoric by such people that made the tie
of SCO v. IBM as SCO v. Linux, and the actual accusation of
SCO IP in Linux.

Hence the subsequent May 2003 when IBM didn't settle (and buy
SCO, and UNIX(R), out like they thought IBM would) -- we, the
enraged Linux community, gave SCO that avenue (SCO careful
avoided directly accusing IBM of specific IP in the March
2003 filing, something they didn't have to prove).  The rest
is political history -- smokescreens, lawsuits against
existing SCO contract holders like Autozone, Chrysler (and
not the actual Linux/IP lawsuits they are made out to be in
the media), etc...  

IBM has been seeling Monterey as AIX5L on Power for years. 
SCO, well, they promised Monterey for IA-64, and they have no
code c/o IBM's breaking the deal.  These are undisputed
facts.  The original March 2003 filing and surrounds those
circumstances and rights whether IBM could terminate or what
they were bound to under those terms even if and when the
terminated -- especially with respect to IBM's violation of
the non-compete by working on Linux for IA-64 (regardless of
whether any IP transfer occured or not) -- is going to be up
to a jury trial in SCO's home state of Utah.

Everything else -- circa May 2003 on-ward -- is politics. 
Something that will definitely result in Red Hat and many
other companies winning return lawsuits against SCO for their
illegal trade practices on claiming SCO IP in Linux.  But
from SCO's vantage point, they were out of money, needed an
avenue, and the resulting counter-lawsuits over damages by
Red Hat and others are  not nearly as large as what they
believe their payout will be against IBM.   Monterey on IA-64
would have sold in small, but very substaintial figures
(i.e., 7+ figures per license).

In the hands of a Utah jury, IBM was the bully first and
pinned SCO into its corner 2.5 years before SCO finally ran
out of money as a result.  Why?  Because IBM didn't like
having a dual Monterey-Linux competitor, and like Microsoft,
it believed it could outlast SCO's financial resources in a
legal fight.  And they were right -- until we, the rabid
Linux community, made the tie of SCO IP to Linux, giving SCO
an avenue to find an avenue for funds when IBM didn't settle.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith     Professional, Technical Annoyance                      b.j.smith at ieee.org      http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
*** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***


From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Tue Dec 27 18:01:30 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:01:30 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Blu-Ray peeps can't get their stuff together
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1D48@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

http://www.digitalworldtokyo.com/archives/2005/12/drm_to_delay_bl.html
In short, the companies trying to put DRM into the Blu-Ray system
haven't been able to agree on the specifics of the DRM system so its
postponed the final v1.0 release of the specs.  Again.  Idiots.

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com 
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>



From wam at HiWAAY.net  Tue Dec 27 18:23:22 2005
From: wam at HiWAAY.net (William A. Mahaffey III)
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:23:22 -0600
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems .... --
	NFS	exported ReiserFS = bad things
In-Reply-To: <20051227220919.4220.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051227220919.4220.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B1CCEA.4040004@HiWAAY.net>

Bryan J. Smith wrote:

>"William A. Mahaffey III" <wam at HiWAAY.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>Whew !!!! :-). Sooo .... short answer, yup, there *ARE*
>>issues w/ Reiserfs/NFS under Linux.
>>    
>>
>
>There always have been since I first tried it in 1999.  There
>always will be, because ReiserFS is _not_ a UNIX filesystem
>design.  It goes to the heart of Hans Reiser's attitude --
>which has both its positives and negatives.
>  
>

<snip>

>>I attach my relevent automount (8) files. They are quite
>>simple :-). My NFS is box-stock SuSE 9.2 NFS. Man NFS sez it
>>    
>>
>>does indeed default to NFS3, but w/ 1 KB reads/writes. I mount
>>    
>>
>>*everything* in my LAN using automount/autofs, no hard mounts
>>    
>>
>>in various SGI/linux /etc/fstab's.
>>    
>>
>
>When I say "hard," I'm _not_ talking about "/etc/fstab"
>versus "automounter."  It's _not_ about timeouts.
>  
>

My bad, bad nomenclature, I *do* know the diff, just replied in a hurry :-).

>
>Ewww, cross-mounts.  ;->
>I know, I know, automounter helps, but I don't recommend it.
>
>  
>
>>I have a 400 GB Samsung I am about to add to this box,
>>can/should I use ext3 on that drive, then reformat/redo
>>the 160 GB into ext3 as well ?
>>    
>>
>
>Whatever filesystem you _export_ (i.e., server), you want to
>make Ext3.
>
>  
>
>>*				&:/home
>>*		-fstype=nfs		&:/usr/people
>>*		-fstype=nfs		&:/work
>>    
>>
>
>You really need to add options like (these are the Linux
>client options, change as appropriate for SGI) ...
>
>  -fstype=nfs,vers=3,rsize=8192,rsize=8192,bg,hard,intr
>
>You want to be _explicit_ anytime you are using _either_
>Linux NFS server _or_ client on the read/write block size. 
>8KiB is a "safe bet" because all Linux kernel's I've seen
>support it for both client and service, and virtually all
>UNIX server and client flavors I've seen support it because
>8KiB is the default for NFSv2 (32KiB being the default for
>NFSv3).  Yes, use 8KiB even for NFSv3 (and _never_ use the
>Linux NFS _server_ in NFSv2 mode).
>
>You also want to make sure the mounts are hard, but
>interruptable.  That way you don't get corruptions
>(especially to Linux NFS _servers_), but programs that can
>interrupt their own commits will work proper.  _Avoid_ using
>"soft", which can often be the default.
>
>-- Bryan
>  
>

Ahhhh, didn't know you could have "hard,intr"; learn something new every 
day. I like intelligent defaults, presumed (wrongly) SuSE might have 
them, that's mostly why I left the various NFS args alone. I just 
plugged in the above settings & restarted autofs, we'll see ....

-- 
	William A. Mahaffey III
---------------------------------------------------------------------
	Remember, ignorance is bliss, but
	willful ignorance is LIBERALISM !!!!

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From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Wed Dec 28 19:19:08 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 16:19:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Windows XP Embedded Gotchas ...
Message-ID: <20051229001908.49948.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

A summary of the stupidiest and most frustrating issues I've
run into with XP Embedded:  
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/12/windows-xp-embedded-gotchas.html

It's accurate to say I am completely disgusted with XP
Embedded (XPE) as a solution for a 100% solid state embedded
system.

We use the same SBC for both Linux and Windows.  The Windows
version calls for 512MiB of RAM and a 512MB "fixed"
CompactFlash (which are not cheap).  The Linux version calls
for 256MiB of RAM (which is overkill) and a 64MB "regular"
CompactFlash.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith     Professional, Technical Annoyance                      b.j.smith at ieee.org      http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
*** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***


From philb at philb.us  Thu Dec 29 02:03:46 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 02:03:46 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Very bad 0 day Windows XP and 2003 exploit on the
	loose. Read for temporary fix.
Message-ID: <200512290203.46790.philb@philb.us>

Unregister the following DLL either in Start/Run or a command prompt.

regsvr32 /u shimgvw.dll

There are lots of references to this on the web, but this is a good one...

http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/12/exploit_release.html

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From lists at brianrose.net  Thu Dec 29 08:44:23 2005
From: lists at brianrose.net (Brian Rose)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:44:23 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
Message-ID: <43B3E837.3020308@brianrose.net>


I was messing around with NetStumbler yesterday when I noticed another AP 
listed nearby with a MAC and SSID of 000000000000 and the Vendor was listed 
as "fake". Shortly afterwards, the SSID changed to the same string as the 
one I used on my access point.

I am thinking that someone was trying to set up a fake router to spoof my 
systems into connecting through it instead of mine. Can a spoofed router 
like this be used to get the password that I set. My router is configured 
to use a pre-shared key with AES encryption. Is this setup vulnerable to 
this kind of attack?

Thanks,

-- 

Brian


From brian at brianrose.net  Thu Dec 29 08:32:22 2005
From: brian at brianrose.net (Brian Rose)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:32:22 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
Message-ID: <43B3E566.2000603@brianrose.net>


I was messing around with NetStumbler yesterday when I noticed another AP 
listed nearby with a MAC and SSID of 000000000000 and the Vendor was listed 
as "fake". Shortly afterwards, the SSID changed to the same string as the 
one I used on my access point.

I am thinking that someone was trying to set up a fake router to spoof my 
systems into connecting through it instead of mine. Can a spoofed router 
like this be used to get the password that I set. My router is configured 
to use a pre-shared key with AES encryption. Is this setup vulnerable to 
this kind of attack?

Thanks,


-- 

Brian (wireless caveman)


From philb at philb.us  Thu Dec 29 10:18:22 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 10:18:22 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
In-Reply-To: <43B3E837.3020308@brianrose.net>
References: <43B3E837.3020308@brianrose.net>
Message-ID: <200512291018.22392.philb@philb.us>

On Thursday 29 December 2005 08:44, Brian Rose wrote:
> I was messing around with NetStumbler yesterday when I noticed another AP
> listed nearby with a MAC and SSID of 000000000000 and the Vendor was listed
> as "fake". Shortly afterwards, the SSID changed to the same string as the
> one I used on my access point.
>
> I am thinking that someone was trying to set up a fake router to spoof my
> systems into connecting through it instead of mine.

I would agree. Can you track down the location of the second AP?

> Can a spoofed router 
> like this be used to get the password that I set. My router is configured
> to use a pre-shared key with AES encryption. Is this setup vulnerable to
> this kind of attack?

I don't think AES is vulnerable to this kind of attack. It's a symmetrical 
encryption method where key's are not exhanged. Once the key's are known on 
both ends, the data is encrypted and decrypted with the static key.

If you did connect to them and your clients are set to only send encrypted 
data then you should be just fine.

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From ae4ko at amsat.org  Thu Dec 29 11:42:32 2005
From: ae4ko at amsat.org (Aaron Morrison)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:42:32 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
In-Reply-To: <43B3E566.2000603@brianrose.net>
Message-ID: <43B3CBA8.5853.DE1E4BB@ae4ko.amsat.org>


On 29 Dec 2005 at 8:32, Brian Rose wrote:

> 
> I was messing around with NetStumbler yesterday when I noticed another AP 
> listed nearby with a MAC and SSID of 000000000000 and the Vendor was listed 
> as "fake". Shortly afterwards, the SSID changed to the same string as the 
> one I used on my access point.
> 
> I am thinking that someone was trying to set up a fake router to spoof my 
> systems into connecting through it instead of mine. Can a spoofed router 
> like this be used to get the password that I set. My router is configured 
> to use a pre-shared key with AES encryption. Is this setup vulnerable to 
> this kind of attack?
> 
> Thanks,

I would suggest a visit to http://www.grc.com/SecurityNow.htm and 
listen to episodes 11 and 13 about WiFi security.  Very informative 
and it will help answer your question.

--am
 



From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec 29 12:06:14 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 12:06:14 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
In-Reply-To: <200512291018.22392.philb@philb.us>
References: <43B3E837.3020308@brianrose.net>
	<200512291018.22392.philb@philb.us>
Message-ID: <1135875974.4724.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 10:18 -0500, Phil Barnett wrote:
> I don't think AES is vulnerable to this kind of attack.
> It's a symmetrical encryption method where key's are not exhanged.

Actually, in pre-shared mode, it's just like WEP -- except the cipher.
WEP uses crappy RC4, whereas AES is much, much stronger.  You typically
want to use AES in the WPA setup where the keys are regularly changed.

But the real "vunerability" is actually at the client ...

> Once the key's are known on both ends, the data is encrypted and
> decrypted with the static key.  If you did connect to them and your
> clients are set to only send encrypted data then you should be just
> fine.

Yes, you not only want to ensure your AP does _not_ allow any "open"
access (a common mistake I see -- WEP or WPA is configured, but "open"
is still allowed), but setup your client to _not_ connect to an "open"
AP.  Far too many clients are setup to prefer WPA, WEP and then to just
connect "open."

Most common reason given to me by clients when I discover this?
"Oh, it wouldn't work for some of our cards in the other mode."
Doh!


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From lists at brianrose.net  Thu Dec 29 12:46:35 2005
From: lists at brianrose.net (Brian Rose)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 12:46:35 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
In-Reply-To: <200512291018.22392.philb@philb.us>
References: <43B3E837.3020308@brianrose.net>
	<200512291018.22392.philb@philb.us>
Message-ID: <43B420FB.5010303@brianrose.net>

Phil Barnett wrote:

> On Thursday 29 December 2005 08:44, Brian Rose wrote:
> 
>>I was messing around with NetStumbler yesterday when I noticed another AP
>>listed nearby with a MAC and SSID of 000000000000 and the Vendor was listed
>>as "fake". Shortly afterwards, the SSID changed to the same string as the
>>one I used on my access point.
>>
>>I am thinking that someone was trying to set up a fake router to spoof my
>>systems into connecting through it instead of mine.
> 
> 
> I would agree. Can you track down the location of the second AP?

Unfortuneately, I have not had a chance to build my coffee can antenna yet. 
I walked around a bit and did not see any unusual parked cars. It could be 
a nosy neighbor, though.

> 
> 
>>Can a spoofed router 
>>like this be used to get the password that I set. My router is configured
>>to use a pre-shared key with AES encryption. Is this setup vulnerable to
>>this kind of attack?
> 
> 
> I don't think AES is vulnerable to this kind of attack. It's a symmetrical 
> encryption method where key's are not exhanged. Once the key's are known on 
> both ends, the data is encrypted and decrypted with the static key.
> 
> If you did connect to them and your clients are set to only send encrypted 
> data then you should be just fine.

I just wanted to make sure that they could not easily break the encryption 
by using brute force on any of the packets that are being sent while the 
connection is established.



-- 

Brian


From philb at philb.us  Thu Dec 29 13:17:43 2005
From: philb at philb.us (Phil Barnett)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:17:43 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
In-Reply-To: <43B420FB.5010303@brianrose.net>
References: <43B3E837.3020308@brianrose.net>
	<200512291018.22392.philb@philb.us>
	<43B420FB.5010303@brianrose.net>
Message-ID: <200512291317.43221.philb@philb.us>

On Thursday 29 December 2005 12:46, Brian Rose wrote:

> I just wanted to make sure that they could not easily break the encryption
> by using brute force on any of the packets that are being sent while the
> connection is established.

With Rijndahl (AES) it's VERY unlikely that even brute force would get them 
anywhere. It's hard to say because I don't know the key length, but with 
Rijndahl, it's possible that there is not enough computing power in the world 
to brute force it in any meaningful time frame.

-- 
"In communism, man exploits man. In capitalism, it's the other way around."


From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net  Thu Dec 29 13:29:02 2005
From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:29:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] RAID5 Performance
Message-ID: <35292.69.176.47.130.1135880942.squirrel@www.ozz.is-a-geek.net>


Hi Guys.

I have the following hardware (new fileserver):

3Ware 9500s-LP Escalade RAID controller.
4x WD4000YR 400GB SATA HDD
Hardware RAID5

Mainboard is Tyan Thunder K8SD Pro
Dual-Opteron 250 (2.4GHz), 2Gb RAM (4x512Mb DDR-400)

Installing Debian Linux with 2.6.12-amd64 kernel (I will upgrade to
2.4.14-4-smp-amd64 once base install is complete).

Question: how long should such hardware take to format a 1.2Tb /home
partition as ext3?  This seems to be taking a very long time (approaching
45 mins, 88% complete).

This doesn't sound normal to me.

Any clues?

Regards,
Ozz.




From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec 29 14:07:08 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:07:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
In-Reply-To: <43B420FB.5010303@brianrose.net>
Message-ID: <20051229190708.14859.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Brian Rose <lists at brianrose.net> wrote:
> It could be a nosy neighbor, though.

Either that, or the neighbor's equipment is a little too
"friendly" in its defaults.

> I just wanted to make sure that they could not easily break
> the encryption by using brute force on any of the packets
that
> are being sent while the connection is established.

256-bit Rijndael (Advanced Encryption Standard, AES) is a
crapload more secure than 64-bit or 128-bit RC4 (used in
Wired Equivalent Privacy, WEP, and legacy Secure Socket
Layer, SSL, before more flexible Transport Level Security,
TLS).  Of course, it also requires a lot more overhead than
RC4 -- hence why RC4 was adopted in most legacy protocols
over something stronger even prior to AES (such as Defense
Encryption Standard, DES).

BTW, most AES reviewers agree that Scheneider's Twofish, also
a finalist (of 3) for the AES, was more secure with less
overhead than Rijndael.  But most of Scheneider's speed in
Twofish, like Blowfish, comes from the use of sums.  Sums in
clocked boolean logic (CBL) are ripple adders, and such CBL
generates of a very, very "distinct" electromagnetic field
(EMF) that could possibly expose the private key in a smart
card.  Smart cards were a major consideration for the AES
choice.  AES is still faster than DES, while being much more
secure.

Today, the typical 200+MHz ARM or MIPS microcontroller
(possibly superscale, such as Intel's XScale) in an AP device
can far better handle the load than the typical 25-50MHz of
the WEP generation.


But, again, all this matters _not_ if the AP or clients are
associating in the "open."  I.e., if a rogue AP broadcasts
the same SSID, and your clients don't always require at least
pre-shared keys, then they will associate with that rogue AP.
 I've seen that far too many times.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith     Professional, Technical Annoyance                      b.j.smith at ieee.org      http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
*** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec 29 14:14:32 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:14:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
Message-ID: <20051229191432.18420.qmail@web34108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

"Bryan J. Smith" <b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote:
> BTW, most AES reviewers agree that Scheneider's Twofish,
> also a finalist (of 3) for the AES, was more secure with
less
> overhead than Rijndael.

Let me clarify that -- more secure with less overhead for the
same level of security.  It was clear that Twofish really
went for an anal-level number of "rounds" in comparison.



-- 
Bryan J. Smith     Professional, Technical Annoyance                      b.j.smith at ieee.org      http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
*** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec 29 14:19:09 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:19:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
In-Reply-To: <200512291317.43221.philb@philb.us>
Message-ID: <20051229191909.75820.qmail@web34114.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Phil Barnett <philb at philb.us> wrote:
> With Rijndahl (AES) it's VERY unlikely that even brute
> force would get them anywhere.

In comparison to RC4, definitely.

> It's hard to say because I don't know the key length,

The AES standardizes Rijndael to 128-bit, 192-bit and 256-bit
key length options, with a fixed 128-byte block.  Rijndael
itself can be implemented with different key and block sizes.

The overwhelming majority of AES-enabled, as well as full WPA
capable, APs implement the 256-bit key length as standard. 
It should be noted that the 256-bit key length does decrease
performance over 128-bit Rijndael significantly.

> but with Rijndahl, it's possible that there is not enough
> computing power in the world to brute force it in any
> meaningful time frame.

Again, in comparison to RC4, definitely.

It's clearly more on the level of 3DES, with greatly reduced
overhead.

Of course, I still prefer Blowfish/Twofish personally.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith     Professional, Technical Annoyance                      b.j.smith at ieee.org      http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
*** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Thu Dec 29 15:11:32 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 12:11:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID5 Performance -- release 9.2.1.1 for 3Ware
	9500S series
In-Reply-To: <35292.69.176.47.130.1135880942.squirrel@www.ozz.is-a-geek.net>
Message-ID: <20051229201132.46840.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net wrote:
> Hi Guys.
> I have the following hardware (new fileserver):
> 3Ware 9500s-LP Escalade RAID controller.

What release?  Make sure you are running with 9.2.1.1 for the
9500S -- that means firmware (and BIOS), driver _and_ 3DM2. 
To match each version against 9.2.1.1, see the release notes:
 
 
http://www.3ware.com/download/Escalade9000Series/9.2.1.1/9.2.1.1_Release_Notes_Web.pdf
 

There were some major issues with earlier releases that
caused serious performance snafus with select RAID-5
configurations.

> 4x WD4000YR 400GB SATA HDD
> Hardware RAID5

Understand RAID-5 will always be _slower_ than RAID-10.  But
the 9500S should be capable of 100+MBps write DTRs with 4
discs, and 250+MBps read DTRs with 4 discs.

> Mainboard is Tyan Thunder K8SD Pro
> Dual-Opteron 250 (2.4GHz), 2Gb RAM (4x512Mb DDR-400)

Always make sure your Opteron BIOS is up-to-date.  There have
been some nasty


> Installing Debian Linux with 2.6.12-amd64 kernel (I will
> upgrade to 2.4.14-4-smp-amd64 once base install is
complete).

I've personally found the stock kernels to be _horrendous_ in
updating the 3w-9xxx driver.  To make matters worse, the
9500S (9.2.x) and new 9550SX (9.3.x) are not yet unified
firmware/release-wise.

> Question: how long should such hardware take to format a
> 1.2Tb /home partition as ext3?  This seems to be taking a
> very long time (approaching 45 mins, 88% complete).
> This doesn't sound normal to me.

It's _not_ unrealistic for "mke2fs -j" to take up to an hour
per TB to create various structures.  Remember, Ext3
_preallocates_ inodes.

If you are used to ReiserFS, XFS or JFS, which dynamically
allocate inodes, a large Ext3 format will seem to take
several orders of magnitude longer.  ;->

-- Bryan

P.S.  I really don't like to make Ext3 volumes larger than
1TB.  I also like to create at least 2 volumes on any array
-- for various reasons.  One is reducing any fsck time, if a
full fsck is required -- especially since I could bring up
the system with only 1 filesystem mounted (allowing at least
half the users to work while the other filesystem is fsck'd).
 Another is not putting all my eggs in one filesystem basket.
 ;->

-- 
Bryan J. Smith     Professional, Technical Annoyance                      b.j.smith at ieee.org      http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
*** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***


From jasonb at edseek.com  Thu Dec 29 18:33:47 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:33:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Wireless Snooper
In-Reply-To: <1135875974.4724.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <43B3E837.3020308@brianrose.net>
	<200512291018.22392.philb@philb.us>
	<1135875974.4724.107.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <63588.65.33.35.221.1135899227.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>

Bryan J. Smith said:
<snip>
> Most common reason given to me by clients when I discover this?
> "Oh, it wouldn't work for some of our cards in the other mode."
> Doh!

Yeah, I've seen that with some of my cheap WiFi cards.  It seems like a
broken implementation.





From jasonb at edseek.com  Fri Dec 30 01:50:23 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 01:50:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems .... -- 
	NFS exported ReiserFS = bad things
In-Reply-To: <20051227220919.4220.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <43B1A868.2080808@HiWAAY.net>
	<20051227220919.4220.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <62049.65.33.35.221.1135925423.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>

Bryan J. Smith said:
<snip>
> Understand that Linus doesn't seem to care much about NFS.
> And SuSE has never really followed NFS much.  So much so that
> SuSE recommended Red Hat Ext3 to me, explicitly, back in
> 2000.

Is there a particular distro which a well-patched Linux kernel for NFS
duties?  Perhaps I could just apply those patches to my own kernel sources?

> SGI's XFS releases for Linux 2.4 were superb.  Other than 1
> critical flaw in the 1.0 release for Red Hat Linux 7.x, they
> were outstanding, extremely compatible and feature filled.
> Unfortunately, Red Hat sees fit to keep extended Ext3,
> instead of realizing that XFS already solves all its
> problems.
>
> And, unfortunately, the last official XFS release for Linux
> was 1.3.x for Red Hat Linux 9.  The XFS release that has been
> integrated into 2.6 is _crap_, and has NFS issues.  The XFS
> backport to 2.4 is even worse -- stick with the official
> 1.3.x release for RHL9 if you want something for 2.4.

Would applying patches for SGI's current XFS releases for Linux help any?

Thanks.





From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec 30 12:17:46 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:17:46 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems .... -- 
	NFS exported ReiserFS = bad things
In-Reply-To: <62049.65.33.35.221.1135925423.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>
References: <43B1A868.2080808@HiWAAY.net>
	<20051227220919.4220.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<62049.65.33.35.221.1135925423.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>
Message-ID: <1135963067.4647.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 01:50 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
> Is there a particular distro which a well-patched Linux kernel for NFS
> duties?

After 6 years of extensive, corporate deployments of a good half-dozen
major distros, only Red Hat has been my repeat suggestion when it comes
to NFS.

And even then, it's still a PITA at times.  E.g., even more recently at
Boeing, I was fighting a lot of NFS client issues on RHEL to SGI and Sun
NFS servers.

> Perhaps I could just apply those patches to my own kernel sources?

Er, um, there's a lot of different considerations.  I wouldn't even
attempt to tackle SuSE's kernel with them.

> Would applying patches for SGI's current XFS releases for Linux help any?

Virtually impossible.  SGI only maintains a full kernel in XFS' CVS.
And I don't know how well it runs on different distros.

That seems to be the continued problem with XFS -- no distro will
address it correctly.  Mandriva, SuSE, etc... all rely on the stock
kernel XFS implementation which is fairly broken in 2.6 (and forget even
bothering with 2.4).

I have only trusted the past, official XFS 1.2.x and 1.3.x releases on
RHL 7.3 and 9, respectively, when it comes to 2.4.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com  Fri Dec 30 12:27:18 2005
From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:27:18 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] (no subject)
Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1E03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>

Its not until you start reading about how Intel decided to make their
latest dual-core CPU two physically separate cores on one physical chip
that you realize how truly horrendous their design is:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2658

Page 3 has a great quote:
"Intel's architecture, featuring no on-die memory controller, allows for
such a split to be made without any major changes.  Even on Smithfield,
all traffic between the cores actually had to travel out one core, off
the chip and onto the external FSB and then back into the other core.
With Presler, the same type of communication can take place without any
disruptions, the only difference is that the data from core to core has
a slightly longer distance to travel."

Aweful, simply aweful.

You can strap a rocket to a turd but its still a turd :o)

-- 
Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna at thelimucompany.com
The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014
#include <stdjoke.h>


From jasonb at edseek.com  Fri Dec 30 13:04:15 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:04:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems .... --  
	NFS exported ReiserFS = bad things
In-Reply-To: <1135963067.4647.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <43B1A868.2080808@HiWAAY.net> 
	<20051227220919.4220.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 
	<62049.65.33.35.221.1135925423.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>
	<1135963067.4647.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <60974.65.33.35.221.1135965855.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>

Bryan J. Smith said:
> On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 01:50 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
<snip>
>> Perhaps I could just apply those patches to my own kernel sources?
>
> Er, um, there's a lot of different considerations.  I wouldn't even
> attempt to tackle SuSE's kernel with them.

I meant a kernel.org kernel.

>> Would applying patches for SGI's current XFS releases for Linux help any?
>
> Virtually impossible.  SGI only maintains a full kernel in XFS' CVS.
> And I don't know how well it runs on different distros.

Sigh.

<snip>
> I have only trusted the past, official XFS 1.2.x and 1.3.x releases on
> RHL 7.3 and 9, respectively, when it comes to 2.4.

The XFS page[0] claims SP2 for SLES9 has been updated with the latest XFS
bug fixes and is dated for this year.  (I've never been a SuSE user myself.)

[0] http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/news.html





From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Fri Dec 30 13:22:22 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 13:22:22 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems .... -- 
	NFS exported ReiserFS = bad things
In-Reply-To: <60974.65.33.35.221.1135965855.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>
References: <43B1A868.2080808@HiWAAY.net>
	<20051227220919.4220.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<62049.65.33.35.221.1135925423.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>
	<1135963067.4647.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
	<60974.65.33.35.221.1135965855.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>
Message-ID: <1135966942.4647.82.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 13:04 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
> The XFS page[0] claims SP2 for SLES9 has been updated with the latest XFS
> bug fixes and is dated for this year.  (I've never been a SuSE user myself.)
> [0] http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/news.html

Very cool!  Yeah, I had heard they were working with SuSE, but I didn't
know how much.  If you have SuSE Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) 9, give
it a try.

It would at least be a far better option than ReiserFS.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From jasonb at edseek.com  Fri Dec 30 14:28:59 2005
From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 14:28:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: LUNA: SuSE 9.2 Reiserfs/NFS problems .... --  
	NFS exported ReiserFS = bad things
In-Reply-To: <1135966942.4647.82.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <43B1A868.2080808@HiWAAY.net> 
	<20051227220919.4220.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 
	<62049.65.33.35.221.1135925423.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo> 
	<1135963067.4647.62.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com> 
	<60974.65.33.35.221.1135965855.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>
	<1135966942.4647.82.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <61315.65.33.35.221.1135970939.squirrel@nebula.internal.foo>

Bryan J. Smith said:
> On Fri, 2005-12-30 at 13:04 -0500, Jason Boxman wrote:
>> The XFS page[0] claims SP2 for SLES9 has been updated with the latest XFS
>> bug fixes and is dated for this year.  (I've never been a SuSE user
>> myself.)
>> [0] http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/news.html
>
> Very cool!  Yeah, I had heard they were working with SuSE, but I didn't
> know how much.  If you have SuSE Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) 9, give
> it a try.
>
> It would at least be a far better option than ReiserFS.

No kidding.  I don't really use ReiserFS for anything.  I'll certainly not
use it for NFS.  Thanks for the heads up.





From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net  Sat Dec 31 12:10:27 2005
From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (Austin Denyer (Ozz))
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 12:10:27 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID5 Performance -- release 9.2.1.1 for 3Ware
	9500S series
In-Reply-To: <20051229201132.46840.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <35292.69.176.47.130.1135880942.squirrel@www.ozz.is-a-geek.net>
	<20051229201132.46840.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051231121027.1511bc0e.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net>


On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 12:11:32 -0800 (PST), "Bryan J. Smith"
<b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote:
>
> What release?  Make sure you are running with 9.2.1.1 for the
> 9500S -- that means firmware (and BIOS), driver _and_ 3DM2. 
> To match each version against 9.2.1.1, see the release notes:

Hmm - not sure off-hand.  I'll check on Tuesday.  It's brand new
though, and the supplier is _supposed_ to have loaded all the latest
firmware.  They are generally pretty good for that, but no-one is
perfect, so I will check.

> There were some major issues with earlier releases that
> caused serious performance snafus with select RAID-5
> configurations.
> 
> > 4x WD4000YR 400GB SATA HDD
> > Hardware RAID5
> 
> Understand RAID-5 will always be _slower_ than RAID-10.

I do understand that.  All those XORs take time...

> > Installing Debian Linux with 2.6.12-amd64 kernel (I will
> > upgrade to 2.4.14-4-smp-amd64 once base install is
> complete).
> 
> I've personally found the stock kernels to be _horrendous_ in
> updating the 3w-9xxx driver.  To make matters worse, the
> 9500S (9.2.x) and new 9550SX (9.3.x) are not yet unified
> firmware/release-wise.

I'll check into that too.  Thanks.
 
> > Question: how long should such hardware take to format a
> > 1.2Tb /home partition as ext3?  This seems to be taking a
> > very long time (approaching 45 mins, 88% complete).
> > This doesn't sound normal to me.
> 
> It's _not_ unrealistic for "mke2fs -j" to take up to an hour
> per TB to create various structures.  Remember, Ext3
> _preallocates_ inodes.

It just seemed to take a lot longer than I expected compared to the
time it took to format the 100+Gb /home on my workstation.  I was
expecting around 12-15 times longer, but this seemed a lot longer than
that.

> If you are used to ReiserFS, XFS or JFS, which dynamically
> allocate inodes, a large Ext3 format will seem to take
> several orders of magnitude longer.  ;->

I always stick with ext3 these days.  I got burned by ReiserFS a few
years ago - never again.

> P.S.  I really don't like to make Ext3 volumes larger than
> 1TB.  I also like to create at least 2 volumes on any array
> -- for various reasons.  One is reducing any fsck time, if a
> full fsck is required -- especially since I could bring up
> the system with only 1 filesystem mounted (allowing at least
> half the users to work while the other filesystem is fsck'd).
>  Another is not putting all my eggs in one filesystem basket.
>  ;->

If the /home partition was actually gonna be used for user data then
yes, I'd feel the same way, and would have gone for splitting the
partition down.  However, this is not gonna have lots of users, just a
couple of small admin accounts and one huge system account for one
specific application.  

Thanks for the input.  Once again, a wealth of valuable info from TheBS.

Regards,
Ozz.

> *** Speed doesn't kill, difference in speed does ***

PS - Love the .sig #;-D
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From ed at ednevitible.co.uk  Sat Dec 31 12:25:08 2005
From: ed at ednevitible.co.uk (ed)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 17:25:08 +0000
Subject: [Pc_Support] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1E03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1E03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
Message-ID: <20051231172508.67dbab75@workstation>

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 12:27:18 -0500
"Damien McKenna" <dmckenna at thelimucompany.com> wrote:

> Page 3 has a great quote:
> "Intel's architecture, featuring no on-die memory controller, allows
> for such a split to be made without any major changes.  Even on
> Smithfield, all traffic between the cores actually had to travel out
> one core, off the chip and onto the external FSB and then back into
> the other core. With Presler, the same type of communication can take
> place without any disruptions, the only difference is that the data
> from core to core has a slightly longer distance to travel."
> 
> Aweful, simply aweful.
> 
> You can strap a rocket to a turd but its still a turd :o)

I think it's part of the master plan to have 32 cores on a single chip,
think of it as network protocol. Sure, its better to have a SCSI cable
between computers, but that's just not workable over any distance.

Well, that's my 20pence that I read into it.

-- 
Regards, Ed http://www.usenix.org.uk - http://irc.is-cool.net 
:%s/Open Source/Free Software/g


From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sat Dec 31 14:25:21 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:25:21 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: RAID5 Performance -- release 9.2.1.1 for
	3Ware 9500S series
In-Reply-To: <20051231121027.1511bc0e.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net>
References: <35292.69.176.47.130.1135880942.squirrel@www.ozz.is-a-geek.net>
	<20051229201132.46840.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20051231121027.1511bc0e.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net>
Message-ID: <1136057121.4714.14.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 12:10 -0500, Austin Denyer wrote:
> Hmm - not sure off-hand.  I'll check on Tuesday.  It's brand new
> though, and the supplier is _supposed_ to have loaded all the latest
> firmware.  They are generally pretty good for that, but no-one is
> perfect, so I will check.
>  ...  
> I'll check into that too.  Thanks.

If you don't have the firmware-driver correct on the 9000 series, it
will cause you issues.

Just like the 7000/8000 did until about 2002-2003 when the firmware-
driver pretty much stabilized.

> It just seemed to take a lot longer than I expected compared to the
> time it took to format the 100+Gb /home on my workstation.  I was
> expecting around 12-15 times longer, but this seemed a lot longer than
> that.

Sounds like a firmware-driver version issue.

> Thanks for the input.  Once again, a wealth of valuable info from TheBS.

Which can be abbreviated as ... "a wealth of BS."  ;->


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From b.j.smith at ieee.org  Sat Dec 31 14:26:29 2005
From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:26:29 -0500
Subject: [Pc_Support] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20051231172508.67dbab75@workstation>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1E03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
	<20051231172508.67dbab75@workstation>
Message-ID: <1136057189.4714.16.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>

On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 17:25 +0000, ed wrote:
> I think it's part of the master plan to have 32 cores on a single chip,
> think of it as network protocol. Sure, its better to have a SCSI cable
> between computers, but that's just not workable over any distance.
> Well, that's my 20pence that I read into it.

No, I think what Damien is talking about is that Intel is like having 32
SCSI cards -- one per drive, instead of a single SCSI card with 32 SCSI
channels, which is what HyperTransport is.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith   mailto:b.j.smith at ieee.org
http://thebs413.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------
Some things (or athletes) money can't buy.
For everything else there's "ManningCard."




From ed at ednevitible.co.uk  Sat Dec 31 16:19:09 2005
From: ed at ednevitible.co.uk (ed)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 21:19:09 +0000
Subject: [Pc_Support] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1136057189.4714.16.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D19F1E03@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com>
	<20051231172508.67dbab75@workstation>
	<1136057189.4714.16.camel@bert64.oviedo.smithconcepts.com>
Message-ID: <20051231211909.3bffbca5@workstation>

On Sat, 31 Dec 2005 14:26:29 -0500
"Bryan J. Smith" <b.j.smith at ieee.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 17:25 +0000, ed wrote:
> > I think it's part of the master plan to have 32 cores on a single
> > chip, think of it as network protocol. Sure, its better to have a
> > SCSI cable between computers, but that's just not workable over any
> > distance. Well, that's my 20pence that I read into it.
> 
> No, I think what Damien is talking about is that Intel is like having
> 32 SCSI cards -- one per drive, instead of a single SCSI card with 32
> SCSI channels, which is what HyperTransport is.

Yep, that makes no sense, since the disk can read only perform atomic
reads.

-- 
Regards, Ed http://www.usenix.org.uk - http://irc.is-cool.net 
:%s/Open Source/Free Software/g