From dsimmons at powersmiths.com Tue Aug 2 08:37:28 2005 From: dsimmons at powersmiths.com (David Simmons) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files Message-ID: <1122986248.7053.14.camel@suse.something.com> Guys, I have a box that does video work...so most of it's files are very large and I've noticed that most of the time my CPU usage is low, but hard-drive light is flashing like crazy - so, my bottle-neck is just moving this data around. Root Question: How do I create the (within a normal budget) fastest way to move large files around? Considering that my 'work area' could be as small as 10Gb. Thoughts: 1). I know that a RAM drive would probably be the fastest...but given that I'm looking for 10Gb, I don't know of 'normal' motherboards going that high...and I'm sure dedicated RAM-Drive cards are way out of the price-range 2). Have been reading some good results using SATA-300 or SATA-II. But given that I have the old standard PCI bus, will that be the limiting factor? (as I'll have to add a SATA-II card to the system). 3). Any comments on the WD Raptor? 4). Instead of a single drive - do I go RAID0 (striping) - if so, any recommendations on setup? (ie. go ATA/IDE or SATA? (Again, will the PCI bus be the limit?) Thanks in advance, dave From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Aug 2 08:58:50 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858F37@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > 3). Any comments on the WD Raptor? Its still the fastest SATA drive on the market, though the SATA-II drives are finally getting close. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 2 09:10:48 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files In-Reply-To: <1122986248.7053.14.camel@suse.something.com> References: <1122986248.7053.14.camel@suse.something.com> Message-ID: <1122988248.4407.19.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 07:37 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > 2). Have been reading some good results using SATA-300 or SATA-II. But > given that I have the old standard PCI bus, will that be the limiting > factor? (as I'll have to add a SATA-II card to the system). Can you guys posts some links/reference info on this? Not that I question it, I just haven't seen it. Although the speed of the interface should not differ because the drive is the same (and 150MBps is more than 2x of today's drive DTR), SATA-300/II uses a twisted pair cable that might reduce loss and retransmits, therefore, increasing performance. > 3). Any comments on the WD Raptor? Hitachi 10,000rpm Ultra320 SCSI "enterprise" drive gone SATA. Lower platter density, but much faster seek. If you're drive light is constantly on and you hear the drive seeking way too much, definitely this your baby! > 4). Instead of a single drive - do I go RAID0 (striping) - if so, any > recommendations on setup? (ie. go ATA/IDE or SATA? 3Ware Escalade 8506-4LP will definitely kick @$$ for less than $300 to start. Throw in four (4) 73GB Raptors for RAID-10 and your life is great for about a grand total. ;-> > (Again, will the PCI bus be the limit?) Yeah, that's the kicker. Who cares if you have a powerful disk controller if you're putting it in a legacy, shared 32-bit @ 33MHz slot. There is no PCIe x4/8 SATA RAID card yet, only the PCIe x8 LSI Logic MegaRAID 320-2E (2-channel U320). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ DISCLAIMER: Assume all statements above are not factual and made only for any possible entertainment or other non-redeeming value. From dsimmons at powersmiths.com Tue Aug 2 09:08:24 2005 From: dsimmons at powersmiths.com (David Simmons) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files In-Reply-To: <1122988248.4407.19.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1122986248.7053.14.camel@suse.something.com> <1122988248.4407.19.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1122988104.7053.21.camel@suse.something.com> On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 08:10 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Can you guys posts some links/reference info on this? Not that I > question it, I just haven't seen it. googling and reading sites like Anandtech had alot of the info I was looking for...basically 300 MB/sec bursts > > 3). Any comments on the WD Raptor? > > Hitachi 10,000rpm Ultra320 SCSI "enterprise" drive gone SATA. Lower > platter density, but much faster seek. If you're drive light is > constantly on and you hear the drive seeking way too much, definitely > this your baby! Ok...so given that my motherboard already has a SATA connection...and (hopefully) it's on some kinda 'dedicated' or internal bus...then this seems to be the best cost/performance contender? (thanks Damien / Bryan) dave From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Tue Aug 2 09:23:19 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858F3B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 07:37 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > > 2). Have been reading some good results using SATA-300 or > > SATA-II. > > Can you guys posts some links/reference info on this? Not that I > question it, I just haven't seen it. http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2454 http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2450 -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 2 09:45:07 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files In-Reply-To: <1122988104.7053.21.camel@suse.something.com> References: <1122986248.7053.14.camel@suse.something.com> <1122988248.4407.19.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1122988104.7053.21.camel@suse.something.com> Message-ID: <1122990307.4407.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 08:08 -0500, David Simmons wrote: > googling and reading sites like Anandtech had alot of the info I was > looking for...basically 300 MB/sec bursts But the drives are no where near capable of that. They are all under 80MBps these days. So a SATA-150 can handle it easily. Also note that 300MBps SATA is now known as SATA-IO or SATA-300, and _no_longer_ SATA-II. Just like USB 2.0, it's become a marketing gimmick and doesn't necessarily mean that performance. > Ok...so given that my motherboard already has a SATA connection...and > (hopefully) it's on some kinda 'dedicated' or internal bus... Many chipsets use one (1) PCIe channel with a dedicated, bi-directional 250MBps bus for the 2-4 SATA channels. > then this seems to be the best cost/performance contender? (thanks > Damien / Bryan) _If_ you need lots of random seek. If it is just raw, linear throughput with sequential reads, then sometimes density is better. It all depends. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ DISCLAIMER: Assume all statements above are not factual and made only for any possible entertainment or other non-redeeming value. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 2 09:48:50 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858F3B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1858F3B@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1122990530.4407.28.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 09:23 -0400, Damien McKenna wrote: > http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2454 Note the "multimedia" creation, which is basically a sequential write operation. That's where the lower density of the Raptor is not as good. You want to go with high density commodity disk. But I agree, for most operations with lots of simultaneous tasks and response time, Raptor is best. > http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2450 Actually, that article does a good job of saying what I've always said. Drives cannot even break 150MBps right now. Plus the fact that the 300MBps channel is now a gimmick. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ DISCLAIMER: Assume all statements above are not factual and made only for any possible entertainment or other non-redeeming value. From dsimmons at powersmiths.com Tue Aug 2 09:54:29 2005 From: dsimmons at powersmiths.com (David Simmons) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files In-Reply-To: <1122990307.4407.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1122986248.7053.14.camel@suse.something.com> <1122988248.4407.19.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> <1122988104.7053.21.camel@suse.something.com> <1122990307.4407.24.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1122990869.7053.47.camel@suse.something.com> On Tue, 2005-08-02 at 08:45 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > > Ok...so given that my motherboard already has a SATA connection...and > > (hopefully) it's on some kinda 'dedicated' or internal bus... > > Many chipsets use one (1) PCIe channel with a dedicated, bi-directional > 250MBps bus for the 2-4 SATA channels. Maybe on newer motherboards...but again, this is not one of them...just PCI bus with SATA built-on....It's a Gigabyte...hmmm...GA-7N400VPro I think. > _If_ you need lots of random seek. If it is just raw, linear throughput > with sequential reads, then sometimes density is better. It all > depends So...that would mean a RAID-0 setup? dave From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 2 11:18:34 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files In-Reply-To: <1122990869.7053.47.camel@suse.something.com> Message-ID: <20050802151834.42330.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> David Simmons wrote: > Maybe on newer motherboards...but again, this is not one of > them...just PCI bus with SATA built-on....It's a > Gigabyte...hmmm...GA-7N400VPro I think. nForce2. Yeah, it's probably on the PCI bus. IIRC, only the NIC in the nForce2, 3, 4/Pro series are a native HyperTransport peripheral. > So...that would mean a RAID-0 setup? RAID-0 and RAID-3 (including NetCell RAID-XL) are definitely geared towards sequential reads/writes. So in that setup, look to the density of commodity disk. RAID-1 and RAID-10 are great for random reads, and if the files are smaller, RAID-4 is even better. All are fairly good at writes, especially larger writes. RAID-5 is best for lots of random reads and small writes. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 2 11:38:25 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Fastest Hard Drive Access for Large (Video) Files -- 2200/2050 and HT-1000 mainboards In-Reply-To: <20050802151834.42330.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050802153825.25372.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> David Simmons wrote: > Maybe on newer motherboards...but again, this is not one > of them...just PCI bus with SATA built-on....It's a > Gigabyte...hmmm...GA-7N400VPro I think. "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > nForce2. Yeah, it's probably on the PCI bus. For entry-level workstations and servers, I have been recommending the following mainboard for systems: http://www.foxconnchannel.com/products_motherboard_2.cfm?pName=NFPIK8AA-8EKRS Which runs about $240, and add in $140-200 for an Opteron 140-146), and some for the registered memory (typically ECC, which is good in a production workstation/server). It is a nForce Pro 2200+2050, with (2) PCIe x16 slots, (1) PCIe x4 slot and (2) PCIe x1 slots. It has dual-1000Mbps NICs (HyperTransport peripheral), one on each of the 2200 and 2050, and eight (8) SATA channels, four (4) on each of the 2200 and 2050 (PCIe x1 channel peripheral). This gives you some "raw" SATA bandwidth now (although no NCQ or antyhing), and room to grow as intelligent PCIe SATA RAID cards come about very soon (probably with Broadcom's briding PCIe x8/PCI-X SATA/SAS chip). For now, only the LSI Logic 320-2E (PCIe x8 dual-channel U320 SCSI) is about the only major RAID controller I've seen. NOTE: I have _not_ personally deployed this board. Broadcom's ServerWorks does have an "entry-level" PCI-X chipset for A64/Opteron in the HT-2000 and HT-1000. The HT-1000 on its own would be a cost-effective, entry-level server with a single PCI-X channel (1 slot at 133MHz, 2 slots at 100MHz, 3-5 slots at 66MHz), especially for Opteron 1xx. But so far, I've only seen the HT-2000+HT-1000, which is costly. -- Bryan P.S. There is a $300 dual-Opteron 2xx mainboard out there that does _not_ offer PCIe or PCI-X at all (AMD8151+8111). _Avoid_ it, it has serious I/O bandwidth issues. I've seen people recommend it for workstations/servers and I want to scream. @-OOO -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Aug 3 23:50:44 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ATT: Bryan Smith - Ram compatibility with i440BX in Toshiba Satellite 4090XCDT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1123127444.4508.55.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 03:19 +0000, Dale Barber wrote: > Hi Bryan, > I found a posting by you back in 2002 about the i440BX memory capability. I > hope you don't mind me mailing you directly but I figured you could throw > some light on my problem. > I've also posted this request on the forum at www.wimsbios.com > My Toshiba Satellite 4090XCDT is severely memory challenged even with the > maximum manufacturers specified memory installed, this being 64MB internal + > 128MB sodimm = 192MB total. > Since the i440BX chipset in this notebook is theoretically capable of > handling MUCH more memory ie 4 x 256MB, I've tried installing a number of > different types of 256MB sodimms, including a Micron MT16LSDF3264HG-10E > module which is a 16 chip low density module with 4K refresh, which is > essential according to Intel's i440BX spec sheet, and uses a max of > 128Mb=16Mx8 bit 4 bank chip technology in two module ranks....but still the > laptop won't boot. 64/128MB [SO-]DIMM configurations are all that will work with the 8-bit wide ICs. The i440BX is not capable of 256Mbit technology, hence why the 8-bit wide ICs won't do. You have to use 32 chip x 4-bit wide ICs in a _registered_ DIMM configuration for 256MB. AFAIK, nobody makes those other than DIMMs for servers (and they are typically 36x4-bit with ECC). Which is where the real irony comes in. i440BX and i810/815 use completely _different_ 256MB DIMMs. 32x4-bit (36x4-bit for ECC) for i440BX, 16x8 for i810 or 16x8 or 8x16 for i815. > Can you advise me here? Is the BIOS possibly limiting the maximum memory to > 192MB....if so, do 3rd party patched BIOSes exist to increase this to > 64+256=320MB ? I'm currently running Toshiba's latest BIOS V8.2. > I've consulted the "i440BX RAM Compatibility FAQ" but still I'm stuck at > 192MB ! > Do you know of anyone who has successfully installed more memory? I'd really > appreciate any light you can throw on this issue. > Cheers...Dale -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 4 00:36:15 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ATT: Bryan Smith - Ram compatibility with i440BX in ToshibaSatellite 4090XCDT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1123130175.4508.101.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 04:18 +0000, Dale Barber wrote: > Did you mean "the i440BX is not capable of 256MByte technology"....because > the Micron 256MByte sodimm that I tried uses 128Mbit chips (=16Mx8) and it > has 16 of them, giving 16 x 16M x 8 = 256MB ? So why doesn't this work? Actually, 128Mbit (16MB @ 8-bit) IC -> 256MByte technology. The whole terminology gets a bit ambiguous. The _only_ 16M chips you can use _must_ be 4-bit ICs, resulting in 8MB ICs. In a 32 chip "registered" 128-bit configuration (36 chip for ECC/144-bit), that will be a 256MB Registered DIMM. BTW, just because a chipset supports a particular technology size / IC width doesn't mean it will work in all combinations. You'd have to design a memory controller to understand the exponential increase in transistor count and, ultimately, additional wait state prevents a lot of flexibility. > I've been told that the limitation with the i440BX was its 4K refresh cycle, > and only the 256MByte sodimms configured as 16 x 16M x 8 had this...all > other 256MByte modules require an 8K refresh cycle and hence definitely > won't work! That could be true, I honestly don't know. I just know the IC size, width and chip arrangement configurations that the i440BX supports. The only 256MB modules supported are 32/36-chip with 4-bit wide ICs in a registered configuration. The "main problem" is that most 256MB modules in the i8xx series have IC that are _not_ 4-bit, but 8-bit wide. No i8xx chipset supported 4-bit wide ICs -- leading to a "no man's land" of conflicting 256MB DIMMs. In a nutshell, the more "commodity" i8xx 256MB was far more commonplace than the "registered" i440BX 256MB DIMM, hence why they are hard to find. Especially for notebook SO-DIMMs. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 4 00:42:58 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ATT: Bryan Smith - Ram compatibility with i440BX in ToshibaSatellite 4090XCDT In-Reply-To: <1123130175.4508.101.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1123130175.4508.101.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1123130578.4508.102.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Wed, 2005-08-03 at 23:36 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The "main problem" is that most 256MB modules in the i8xx series have IC > that are _not_ 4-bit, but 8-bit wide. No i8xx chipset supported 4-bit > wide ICs -- leading to a "no man's land" of conflicting 256MB DIMMs. In > a nutshell, the more "commodity" i8xx 256MB was far more commonplace > than the "registered" i440BX 256MB DIMM, hence why they are hard to > find. > Especially for notebook SO-DIMMs. And even if you did find one, if your on-board 64MB is not a "registered" DIMM configuration (which I safely assume is not), then you wouldn't be able to use it anyway. I think your quest is an impossible one. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 4 01:39:04 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ATT: Bryan Smith - Ram compatibility with i440BX inToshibaSatellite 4090XCDT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1123133944.4508.145.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 05:16 +0000, Dale Barber wrote: > Hey Bryan, thanks again. > I don't understand why 4 bit wide chips or 8 bit wide chips wide is so > significant to the controller here. Surely by conncecting two 4 bit wide > chips side by side on a sodimm, the controller basically sees an 8 bit wide > memory device? Not when it results in extra tri-state buffers and logic. ;-> > And why is registered memory necessary in this case...I thought it was only > needed in the case of too much electrical load on the data and address buses > when more than 3 sodimms are connected to the controller? The 64MB memory on > my Toshiba motherboard is not registered memory so you suggest that a > registered sodimm wouldn't work with it? There is a bit width total of 128-bit, double the 64-bit DIMM, which requires extra logic on-DIMM. This adds buffer and states which is not ideal for Synchronous timing. > Interestingly, the ASUS L8400 C notebook uses the same i440BX chipset and it > will accept a 256MB 16 chip sodimm, giving a maximum memory of 320MB or 384 > MB, depending on whether there is 64MB or 128MB on the motherboard > respectively. Are you sure it is the i440BX and not the i440GX or possibly the i815? *OR* are you sure it's not a 256MB EDO SO-DIMM? Many early SDRAM chipsets also supported EDO DIMMs at double the size because there is not the synchronous issues in using more ICs/widths. This includes the i440BX. > This leads me to suspect a BIOS limitation! Do you think Toshiba could write > a limit into their BIOS to limit the maximum size of the sodimm to 128MB or > the maximum total memory to 192MB? Have you heard of this being done before > in the BIOS? I know that desktop/server motherboards are a lot more > flexible, but maybe laptop manufacturers don't want to offer this kind of > flexibility in their BIOS! -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 4 09:49:59 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: ATT: Bryan Smith - Ram compatibility with i440BXinToshibaSatellite 4090XCDT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1123163399.4508.163.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-08-04 at 07:01 +0000, Dale Barber wrote: > Hey Bryan, > here's a link to Crucial Memory's upgrade site for an ASUS L8400 C series > which definitely uses the i440BX chipset: > http://support.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=ASUS%2B+Notebooks&mfr=ASUS&tabid=CR&model=L8400+C+Series&submit=Go > Finally, the Dell Inspiron 2100 also uses the i440BX chipset and here's an > attached specs html which indicates i440BX chipset and max memory of 1 > sodimm of 256MB sdram. > Thanks for your feedback. Hey, I'm glad you found something. It's been a bit since I researched this. Intel might have rev'd the chipset so it supported higher memory capacities. From the looks of it, it looks like a 32Mx16, but I could be wrong. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Aug 4 10:04:56 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Adaptec 2100-S (was: Re: ATT: Bryan Smith - Ram compatibility with i440BXinToshibaSatellite 4090XCDT) In-Reply-To: <1123163399.4508.163.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1123163399.4508.163.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <200508041004.56815.jasonb@edseek.com> On Thursday 04 August 2005 09:49, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Intel might have rev'd the chipset so it supported higher memory > capacities. From the looks of it, it looks like a 32Mx16, but I could > be wrong. Speaking of other fun chipset compatibilities, I actually bought a 128MB SIMM module that claimed identical specs to a supported 128MB SIMM for an old Adaptec 2100-S, but no joy. The card reported a LED code that wasn't listed in the error manual. The original 32MB SIMM works fine. The recommended SIMM was some OEM'd module that I couldn't find anymore. I guess the specs were the same, but the IC configuration was still different enough that the 2100-S wouldn't play nice. (Needless to say, we are finally getting a new server with an Escalade 9000 series card and 7 74GB WD Raptors.) From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Thu Aug 4 20:55:50 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD goodies Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D185900A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Lots of AMD news. First off, a new lower-cost dual-core Athlon-64 that out-paces everything Intel has at the price-point, retailing for around $350. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484 A review of a Tyan's K8WE NF4 Pro SLI dual-CPU motherboard based on the nVidia nForce Professional chipsets and retailing for around $430-460: http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-296-1.htm An upcoming motherboard from Iwill supports 64 *gigabytes* of RAM on a dual-CPU Opteron board: http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20050729PR208.html A review of ATI's new Athlon-64 chipset: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2481 AMD's Opterons CPUs are in use at ILM and LucasArt's new headquarters in San Francisco: http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~100323 ,00.html AMD has launched what seems to be an entry-level Opteron CPU series: http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~100324 ,00.html Fun stuff. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Aug 5 16:09:52 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] No excuse: LG GSA-4163 is now $42.99 everyday at NewEgg ... Message-ID: <20050805200952.76403.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> NewEgg.com's standard price on the beige LG GSA-4163BB is now only $42.99. It is the "do everything" drive, including 5x DVD-RAM, 4x DVD+R DL, 16x DVD-R(G) and DVD+R, etc... AnandTech timed it as one of the fastest 16x DVD-R(G) and DVD+R drives, period, with low error rates. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827136046 There's no excuse not to pay $10 more to put one of these in than a standard CD-RW or DVD-ROM drive. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Aug 5 16:12:34 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:10 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] No excuse: LG GSA-4163 is now $42.99 everyday atNewEgg ... Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859022@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > NewEgg.com's standard price on the beige LG GSA-4163BB is now > only $42.99. Wow, nice price! And at work they just got one for me from Sam's Club. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Aug 5 16:30:51 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] No excuse: LG GSA-4163 is now $42.99 everyday atNewEgg ... In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859022@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050805203051.43513.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > Wow, nice price! And at work they just got one for me from > Sam's Club. Those are typically DVD+RW based, at least last time I checked. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Fri Aug 5 16:41:27 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] No excuse: LG GSA-4163 is now $42.99 everydayatNewEgg ... Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859023@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > > And at work they just got one for me from Sam's Club. > > Those are typically DVD+RW based, at least last time I checked. No, no, its the GSA-4163, I've been bugging them for six months to get me one. Of course they paid $80 for it, but that's their fault for waiting so long. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Fri Aug 5 16:55:06 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] No excuse: LG GSA-4163 is now $42.99 everydayatNewEgg ... In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859023@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050805205506.17814.qmail@web34112.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > No, no, its the GSA-4163, I've been bugging them for six > months to get me one. Of course they paid $80 for it, but > that's their fault for waiting so long. Oh, cool! I had only seen 2 different models at Sam's Club, both DVD+RW based. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sat Aug 6 22:57:31 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] SFF Update: Foxconn NF4K8MC-EKRS, prices drop to $174 for the case+PS+mainboard Message-ID: <1123383451.31913.28.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> A couple of the guys over at SLUUG were drooling over my semi-SFF system when I presented at two SLUUG meetings last month. I carried in my Notebook (bag w/strap over shoulder), 19" LCD (box w/handle in my left hand -- although I could have carried it in my its stable base without its outer box) and SFF box (box w/handle in my right hand) and a wireless KB/mouse box (with a couple of cables in it, between my notebook bag straps) all by myself. Anyhoo, I just wrote a post on the system here per inquiry: http://www.sluug.org/~archive/discuss/200508/msg00038.shtml.gz [ NOTE: Archives username is "discuss" password is "freely" ] I wanted to point out that the 10lbs. Chenming 118 w/300W ATX2.0 PS has dropped to $75 now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125485 And a buck more ($76) if you want the plastic windows (adds a tad more weight, maybe 11-12lbs., at least the Aspire X-QPack's did): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125484 Of course there are always the Aspire X-QPacks as well with a 420W, but only ATX1.0, not ATX2.0 with the split-12V. I also wanted to point out Foxconn has updated my mainboard with a "K" which now uses a Broadcom PHY to the nVidia MAC so full GbE is provided (even though it's still the nForce4 standard chipset), and the price has dropped to $79 (a full $10). I don't know how that works, but it should mean the MAC is _still_ directly connected to the HyperTransport and using the forcedeth (or nvnet) driver, and not the legacy PCI bus. Here was my aged board (Foxconn NFS4K8MC-ERS): http://www.foxconnchannel.com/products_motherboard_2.cfm?pName=NF4K8MC-ERS And the newer version (Foxconn NFS4K8MC-EKRS): http://www.foxconnchannel.com/products_motherboard_2.cfm?pName=NF4K8MC-EKRS And it's now $10 cheaper ($79) than when I bought the former in April: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186066 Of course, my board is still here if you want to save a buck ($78, $11 off from when I bought it back in April): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186052 -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Sun Aug 7 17:25:21 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] White noise from speakers? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859048@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> If I've got my PC speakers turned on, no audio playing but I'm hearing white noise, is that the soundcard or the speakers at fault? -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Sun Aug 7 19:29:26 2005 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Wise Linux User Patrick) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] White noise from speakers? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859048@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859048@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <200508071929.27197.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> On Sunday 07 August 2005 05:25 pm, Damien McKenna wrote: > If I've got my PC speakers turned on, no audio playing but I'm hearing > white noise, is that the soundcard or the speakers at fault? Do you have a TV or video capture card, or, an FM Radio card? I found out that sometimes, when I minimize a window that was playing sounds, they stop, but the amp remains on, making some white noise in the speakers! Check to see if for instance, you have one application using ALSA sound, while another tries to use another sound program! The white noise is usually, in my experience, from some program that I opened, and then shut down, but, didn't correctly stop the sound server that had been used for that program. -- Check these out: http://knopper.net/knoppix http://livecdlist.com http://distrowatch.com http://yolinux.com http://safeharbordome.com From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Aug 7 21:20:51 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] White noise from speakers? In-Reply-To: <200508071929.27197.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859048@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <200508071929.27197.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <1123464051.4575.14.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 19:29 -0400, Wise Linux User Patrick wrote: > Do you have a TV or video capture card, or, an FM Radio card? > I found out that sometimes, when I minimize a window that was playing sounds, > they stop, but the amp remains on, making some white noise in the speakers! It's up to the application to turn on/off the line-in/aux/whatever input you configure it to use for incoming audio. I know most of the Windows software out there is really bad about doing this (even when they offer an option to set the input audio interface, it doesn't always close -- let alone it doesn't do it when minimized). -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From jasonb at edseek.com Mon Aug 8 01:42:46 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] SFF Update: Foxconn NF4K8MC-EKRS, prices drop to $174 for the case+PS+mainboard In-Reply-To: <1123383451.31913.28.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> References: <1123383451.31913.28.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Message-ID: <1455.216.77.197.48.1123479766.squirrel@localhost> Bryan J. Smith said: > I also wanted to point out Foxconn has updated my mainboard with a "K" > which now uses a Broadcom PHY to the nVidia MAC so full GbE is provided > (even though it's still the nForce4 standard chipset), and the price has > dropped to $79 (a full $10). I don't know how that works, but it should > mean the MAC is _still_ directly connected to the HyperTransport and > using the forcedeth (or nvnet) driver, and not the legacy PCI bus. Okay, that's making me second think Ebaying an older nForce2 Ultra for $40-$60 and buying one of these instead. Of course, I'll need the new PSU and a compatible CPU, too. I'd be happy with a cheaper Semapron (too late to look up spelling, sigh) CPU. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Aug 8 18:35:10 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] BS Detector Off-the-Scale! Micrsoft says Monad was cut for security ... Message-ID: <20050808223510.71657.qmail@web34113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Given the fact that Monad was going to be a _true_ .NET environment with actual UNIX-like security, this rates 10 on the "BS Scale" for retroactive PR non-sense. The sooner something like Monad is available, the sooner various, _standard_ Windows services get a more secure environment for processing -- from Exchange's ESMTP to Windows scripting. It's really a complement to Indigo, which is the .NET sandboxed (atop of Win32) run-time of Longhorn Server, and more par to what Java already has on anything (Win32, as well as UNIX). Right now God knows that you've got all sorts of _core_ scripting in Win32 which was written for Chicago and _by_passes_ even Win32's limited security model. And a lot of that is already tied into the MSIE client. So, pardon my French, this is utter and total BS and it's PR non-sense that I can't stand. Story: http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122145,00.asp -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From pberry2 at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 8 19:39:58 2005 From: pberry2 at cfl.rr.com (Wise Linux User Patrick) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] VISTA is an Acronym! Message-ID: <200508081939.59144.pberry2@cfl.rr.com> "Cringefan Ken M. points out that VISTA is really an acronym for: Viruses, Infections, Spyware, Trojans, and Adware. That's clarity for you." Consumer Reports has a very full magazine out, this Sept. 2005 issue, (got ours today in mail) covering several pages about adware, virus, spybots, trojans, preventative measures, and an entire article on internet access providers, plus computer comparisons (purchasing of desktops, or laptops). The cost per incident is a bit inflated, to my mind, at $265 per "spyware", $312 per "virus", and $395 per 'phishing' incident. There was one comparison mention of MAC OSX. I have heard that the cleaning of a windows computer, in a shop, runs over $75, now, in the Orlando area. Wow! Other than that, there were NO MENTIONS of the OTHER 450+ virus free, fairly secure, NON-Microsoft OSes. Well, at least the 20 % of the world who don't use the vulnerable OS are knowledgeable of the flaws mentioned in the articles. And, I suspect that we run stand-alone firewalls, and, GNU/Linux as the OS. Little to No mention of firewalls in stand alone routers, in the wifi or Ethernet works. Very scarey, how the users, having purchased a computer with an installed proprietary OS from the world's biggest multiple convicted felon, simply wanting to check email, or surf for bargains, are so greatly deceived! -- Check these out: http://knopper.net/knoppix http://livecdlist.com http://distrowatch.com http://yolinux.com http://safeharbordome.com From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Aug 8 23:26:02 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] nVidia launches SLI X16 for AMD, Intel, Dell marks first non-Intel move ... Message-ID: <1123557962.4675.27.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> If you haven't heard, nVidia is launching a new chipset, the nForce4 SLI X16. What is it? It's basically 2 IC version of their nForce4, the SPP being a full 8GBps HyperTransport tunnel to the MCP. Despite the references to legacy chipset that typically only had a 1GBps connection, the MCP is basically a full nForce4 series core and peripherals as well as the SPP (sans peripherals). It's going to be available in both an AMD HyperTransport and Intel AGTL+ flavor. The Intel AGTL+ SPP will have a dual-channel DDR2 interface. Even more shocking is that Dell is going to split on going with only Intel solutions, and start carrying the AGTL+ solution. I'm still scratching my head on that one, unless Dell feels that they need more of a "gamers solution" in small quantities than Intel will provide (and won't mind them carrying). http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2493 -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Aug 8 23:55:45 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] SilverStone SG01 adds its MicroATX/ATX-PS combo SFF ... Message-ID: <1123559745.4675.39.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> I think mainboard manufacturers need to start paying attention. If my Chenming 118 and Aspire X-QPack purchases say anything, consumers like the size and portability of these new breed of small form-factor (SFF) cases using _standard_ MicroATX mainboards and ATX power supplies. In a desktop, most people just need four (4) mainboard slots with today's on-board peripherals, while only two (2) 5.25" bays are enough with (2) 3.5" internal bays for hard drives (JBOD, RAID-0 or RAID-1). But at the same time, with today's CPUs and video cards, they still need a full ATX power supply (as most MicroATX PSes that can handle the load are _rare_ -- my 460W MicroATX2.0 was clearly a "long" MicroATX PS ;-). SilverStone has added their own solution in the SG01. It is about 1" x 1" shorter and narrower than the Chenming/Aspire, while being about 1" longer. What does this mean versus the Chenming/Aspire? Positives / Nice Touches: 1. The 5.25" bays have more room for cabling/length (1" longer) 2. The 5.25" bays are offset to the right, more room/easier access on the card slot side 3. The internal 3.25" bays for hard drives are sideways mounted and easily accessed 4. The internal 3.25" bays have their own fan blowing right over Negatives: 1. No external 1" floppy (1" shorter) 2. The ATX PS is above the CPU, not the slots (1" shorter), so CPU fansink height is more limited 3. The fan is above the slots and only 80mm, instead of 120mm 4. No handle (at least I couldn't see one / didn't see a spec) 5. Cost: $190 without a CPU! Nothing I'd buy for the price, but I figured it's a sign of more to come from other vendors. If the SilverStone TJ-06 was any indicator, SilverStone licenses their designs from others, so clones will follow (at a cheaper price point): http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20050720/index.html -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 9 00:00:51 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] AMD releases 64-bit Sempron 3300+/3400+ for Socket-754 ... Message-ID: <1123560051.4675.43.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> I guess I missed this: http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20050801/index.html Performance wasn't too bad at the $125 Sempron 3300+ versus AMD's Socket-939 Athlon64 solutions. At this point, with the nForce4 Standard/Ultra Socket-939 mainboards so cheap, PCIe clearly the future and the Athlon64 3000+ around the same price, I can't recommend the Sempron unless you already have a Socket-754 mainboard and/or AGP video card you are satisfied with. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 9 00:08:47 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Be wary on the Hitachi DeskStar 7K500 (500GB) drives = 5 platters! Message-ID: <1123560528.4675.48.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> They use 100GB platters so they have 5 platters! Most drives today are only 1-3 sometimes 4 platters, largely for reliability in a commodity disk drive capacity. The last time a company put 5 platters in a capacity disk drive capacity was IBM's DeskStar 75GXP (15GB/platter). Most people with the 30-45GB platters had few failure rates, but those with the 60-75GB, especially 75GB, had high failure rates. Now HD cooling was little exposed back then because 7200rpm wasn't commonplace. And the new materials and fabrication processes in use by Hitachi and Seagate are now rated for 60 degrees C operation instead of the former 40 degrees C. But the vibration and other operational tolerances are still limited, so be wary of how you deploy these drives. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 9 01:35:48 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] The "Small Enough" Form-Factor PC ... Message-ID: <1123565748.4675.51.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> Updated my blog with a general ramble on what I believe should be the new, commodity "box" enclosure using MicroATX mainboards and full ATX power supplies (typically 10-11" x 8-9" x 14-15" dimensions) since it addresses about 95%+ of any expansion, cooling and power needs these days. http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/08/small-enough-form-factor-pc.html -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Aug 10 12:03:58 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Backing up 1-4TiB: LTO-3, SDLT or SAIT? Message-ID: <20050810160358.9328.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have 1TiB of potential storage that may quickly increase to up to 4TiB in the future. The system is a standalone system of systems (largely Windows 2000 and HP/UX 11), so it requires its own, local backup solution. In the past, the company standard has been DLT for production areas, but LTO has been increasingly deployed. I think it's more of a vendor decision (HP) than anything (although I have already interjected that we might want to start looking at Copan System's MAID/VTL as an intermedia, near-line storage buffer between systems and tape). If I was rolling out tape for a production area, I'd definitely stick with DLT. But in this case, I have a leading-edge, standalone system, and I really could use a leading-edge performing backup solution. As such, I'm really looking to LTO, namely LTO-3. LTO-3 reads LTO-1 and reads/writes LTO-2 and LTO-3. LTO-4 is planned. It is 400GB native with a native transfer rate of 80MBps (double each on average using hardware compression), pretty much the leader right now. Tape cartridge media is one of the cheapest and reliability is typical for the industry (to get any higher, you'd need to go with an IBM proprietary). LTO is a consortium of 3 companies, Certance, HP and IBM, although that's no guarantee of full compatibility. But the multivendor nature does explain popularity. About 2/3rd of all new enterprise drive/media sales are LTO according to a 2003 study by SAIC, one of our core partners. The other options are largely HP SDLT and Sony SAIT. As I mentioned, we have DLT in use in production areas, but the cost, capacity and performance are not what I'd like. Since this is a standalone system, and we have deployed LTO-1/2 in other areas, I'm really trying to think ahead. Since the LTO-3 drives can write LTO-2, it seems like a no brainer at this point, and a good move for the future since LTO-4 should read (if not write) LTO-3 as well. On the SDLT front, 300GiB is the latest capacity, but cost and performance aren't still there. Sony has its SAIT at a whopping 500GiB native, but the performance is still lackluster to LTO-3 and newer SDLT. Not sure about reliability, although I would be interesting in considering it if reliability is better. But the vendor issue might not be doable. As such, does anyone have any pros/cons they've personally dealt with on the formats? Is there any reason not to go with LTO? BTW, I'm considering the HP 1/8 Autoloader with an Ultrium 960 drive, so native capacity is 3.2GiB with a 80GBps transfer rate over Ultra320 SCSI. I'm still researching the hardware support in Symantec (fka Veritas) NetBackup, which is our standard, but I believe I won't have any issues with supporting Windows 2000 and HP/UX 11 (although I might have to use Windows 2000 as the NetBackup buffering server for both hardware and temporary disk considerations). SAIC Study (Sponsored by USGS): http://wgiss.ceos.org/archive/archive.doc/FY03MediaTradeStudy.doc -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Wed Aug 10 12:11:41 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Backing up 1-4TiB: LTO-3, SDLT or SAIT? -- corrections/addendeum In-Reply-To: <20050810160358.9328.qmail@web34110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050810161142.30762.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > BTW, I'm considering the HP 1/8 Autoloader with an Ultrium > 960 drive, so native capacity is 3.2GiB with a 80GBps > transfer rate over Ultra320 SCSI. Er, that should read "native 3.2*T*iB [aggregate] capacity" with a "80*M*Bps [native] transfer rate" (doh!). Typical performance with 2:1 compression results in around 160MBps, which is enough to saturate even the 1Gbps GbE "out-of-band" links I'm planning on using between the NetBackup server and its agent systems. Although I plan on using buffering and delaying committal to tape. In fact, I think another benefit of LTO is that it can do variable write speeds, so it can "slow down" to accommodate the incoming stream. I haven't researched AIT, but I don't think DLT can do that. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Aug 11 01:58:16 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? Message-ID: <3208.216.77.194.206.1123739896.squirrel@localhost> I have decided to stick with old, 32-bit technology for my next upgrade. Should I bother with getting an expensive Athlon 3200+ so I can run at 200MHz FSB, or get a lessly expensive 166MHz FSB Athlon and run my existing PC2700 RAM or upgrade to plentiful PC3200 RAM. (Matched pair 'dual channel' packages of less expensive RAM is available often.) I can pick up a MSI K7N2 Delta2 Platinum (nForce2 400 Ultra) for $68 shipped from ZZFly. Obviously, the cheapest FSB200 Athlon is expensive at $108. The FSB166 CPUs are a bit better and PC3200 is more plentiful than PC4000. I suspect things will move to DDR2 before PC4000 ever becomes widely available. Thanks. (fyi upgrading from ECS K7S5A running an XP 1800+ @ 133FSB w PC2700 @ 133MHz.) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 11 09:01:50 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <3208.216.77.194.206.1123739896.squirrel@localhost> References: <3208.216.77.194.206.1123739896.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <1123765310.6152.25.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Thu, 2005-08-11 at 01:58 -0400, Jason Boxman wrote: > I have decided to stick with old, 32-bit technology for my next upgrade. > Should I bother with getting an expensive Athlon 3200+ so I can run at > 200MHz FSB, or get a lessly expensive 166MHz FSB Athlon and run my existing > PC2700 RAM or upgrade to plentiful PC3200 RAM. If you go Athlon64, it doesn't matter, you can use whatever you want -- PC1600 (DDR200) to PC3200 (DDR400). > (Matched pair 'dual channel' packages of less expensive RAM is available often.) Just know that Socket-462, 478 and 754 only have a _single_ DDR channel for a 64-bit path to CPU. They use "interleaving" and call it "dual channel." In fact, the only processor that has a _true_ 128-bit DDR channel to CPU is Socket-939/940, totally glueless and direct to CPU. Even LGA-775 and Socket-640 use some muxed lines. > I can pick up a MSI K7N2 Delta2 Platinum (nForce2 400 Ultra) for $68 shipped > from ZZFly. Obviously, the cheapest FSB200 Athlon is expensive at $108. $68-108??? You're talking brand new nForce4 Standard/Ultra mainboard prices for Socket-939! AnandTech had a good price guide here (seems to be down right now): http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=2490 They have a new rev of my MicroATX nForce4 Standard mainboard with GbE on-board for $79 now. And some of the full ATX nForce4 Ultra mainboards are around $90 now too, $105 for a good, quality board in the AnandTech price guide. Brand new, Rev. E (31W PowerNow, SSE3) Athlon64 3000+ start at $136. And you can reuse your memory, _no_ CPU-I/O slowdown. You might be able to find some older nForce3 chipset mainboards for even cheaper. > The FSB166 CPUs are a bit better and PC3200 is more plentiful than PC4000. > I suspect things will move to DDR2 before PC4000 ever becomes widely > available. > Thanks. > (fyi upgrading from ECS K7S5A running an XP 1800+ @ 133FSB w PC2700 @ 133MHz.) Just don't know if it's worth buy old Athlon. Heck, even the new Socket-754 Sempron 3300+ (and 3400+) are now 64-bit, around $100 and perform comparable to an Athlon[64] 3000-3200+. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Thu Aug 11 09:29:06 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859133@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > Should I bother with getting an expensive Athlon 3200+ so I can > run at 200MHz FSB, or get a lessly expensive 166MHz FSB Athlon and > run my existing PC2700 RAM or upgrade to plentiful PC3200 RAM. Simply put, if you're considering spending a money on anything other than second-hand / cheap parts then you should spend the extra $30 to get a Socket 939 / Athlon64 system, and as Bryan said you can then reuse your existing memory, its just wasted money. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Aug 11 13:20:12 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859133@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.c om> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859133@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1133.216.78.64.62.1123780812.squirrel@localhost> Damien McKenna said: >> Should I bother with getting an expensive Athlon 3200+ so I can >> run at 200MHz FSB, or get a lessly expensive 166MHz FSB Athlon and >> run my existing PC2700 RAM or upgrade to plentiful PC3200 RAM. > > Simply put, if you're considering spending a money on anything other > than second-hand / cheap parts then you should spend the extra $30 to > get a Socket 939 / Athlon64 system, and as Bryan said you can then reuse > your existing memory, its just wasted money. Where is everyone buying their Athlon 64s that I am not looking? They're starting at $150! And, my old PSU is probably insufficient, so that's another $150 for a quality PSU. Now I'm spending about $450 instead of $180. Oops. If I was sure it was worth it, I might take the plunge, but if the least expensive A64 stuff now isn't that good and you really need to spend even a bit more than $450, that's way out of my range. From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Aug 11 14:05:56 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <1133.216.78.64.62.1123780812.squirrel@localhost> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859133@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1133.216.78.64.62.1123780812.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <1219.216.78.64.62.1123783556.squirrel@localhost> Jason Boxman said: > Where is everyone buying their Athlon 64s that I am not looking? > > They're starting at $150! > > And, my old PSU is probably insufficient, so that's another $150 for a > quality PSU. Now I'm spending about $450 instead of $180. Oops. > > If I was sure it was worth it, I might take the plunge, but if the least > expensive A64 stuff now isn't that good and you really need to spend even a > bit more than $450, that's way out of my range. What's more I have a $150 AGP card I bought a few weeks ago. I could go for store credit or resell it on Ebay, but that's just going to recoup a portion of the cost and further increase the cost of an AMD64 foray. Nope, I think my fate is sealed. If I build a new dedicated workstation I'll move to 64, but for this box it appears I'll be in 32 land. Or I'll need $150 PSU, $150 CPU, $100 board, and $150 VC (-$100 Ebay'd value) versus $65 for a board, $100 for a CPU, and ~ $70 for a deal on paired 512MBx2 PC3200. As I've probably made clear before, I am very cheap. I'll probably never even notice the difference between A64 and an older highend A32 setup for the activities I perform anyway. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Thu Aug 11 14:28:18 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D185914E@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Food for thought: CPUs: http://labs.anandtech.com/products.php?sfilter=134&price=yes AGP compatible Motherboards: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=&PropertyCodeV alue=709%3A7495&PropertyCodeValue=734%3A7577&description=&MinPrice=&MaxP rice=&SubCategory=22&Submit=Property What PSU do you have? I'd be surprised if it didn't work with these motherboards. It may not do eight harddrives and five DVDR drives but it should work. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Aug 11 15:08:44 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D185914E@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.c om> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D185914E@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <1468.216.78.64.62.1123787324.squirrel@localhost> Damien McKenna said: > Food for thought: > > CPUs: > http://labs.anandtech.com/products.php?sfilter=134&price=yes > > AGP compatible Motherboards: > http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=&PropertyCodeV > alue=709%3A7495&PropertyCodeValue=734%3A7577&description=&MinPrice=&MaxP > rice=&SubCategory=22&Submit=Property > > What PSU do you have? I'd be surprised if it didn't work with these > motherboards. It may not do eight harddrives and five DVDR drives but > it should work. You make a compelling argument. I had never heard of E-Wiz. I'll have to check out resellerratings. The current PSU is CoolMax 325W. You can't buy it anymore on Newegg, but I posted the ratings on this list about a month ago. I think it was 12A or 15A on the +12V. Probably the former. I think an upgrade is strongly suggested if I'm going to run a 6600GT. It may run, but who knows if I'll have stability issues are the PSU ages and such. I think I will look again at the nForce3 boards, though. With the ~ $118 price for the cheapest A64 and AGP 3.0 support on the nForce3 boards, going A64 is starting to appear more realistic now. Thanks. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 11 17:35:18 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <1133.216.78.64.62.1123780812.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050811213518.4181.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > Where is everyone buying their Athlon 64s that I am not > looking? They're starting at $150! But after you figure mainboard and you're debating memory, you're already up to spending $80 more. It's far better to go for the Socket-939 Athlon64 3000+ or even 3200+ on a newer Socket-939 nForce4 mainboard for the _same_price_. Furthermore, you can get a nForce3 Socket-754 mainboard for $50 these days. The Socket-754 Sempron 2800+ is under $80. $130 bucks right there, $80 cheaper, and the _same_price_ as a nForce4 Socket-462 and Athlon. Because AMD had to match Intel adding EM64T to the Celeron, the Sempron for Socket-754 _now_ has a 64-bit upgrade option (the new 3300+/3400+ are 64-bit). > And, my old PSU is probably insufficient, so that's another > $150 for a quality PSU. Not so. All Sempron and all new 90mm Winchester/Venice (Rev.D/E) Athlon64's use the same or _less_ power than the last generation of Athlons. Most of the $50 nForce3 Socket-754 mainboards are ATX1.0. So no power supply upgrade required. You can also continue to use your AGP cards, and the slots on the nForce3 are _definitely_ AGP3.0/8x and 0.8V capable. And even if you go Socket-939, as long as you don't get an ultra-power-sucking PCIe card, you don't need ATX2.0. In fact, the only reason you need ATX2.0 is because PCIe provides the same 50-100W that AGP"Pro" used to on workstation boards. If your video card don't suck the juice, then you don't need it as long as you're putting in an Athlon64 90mm 3000+, 3200+ or 3500+. > Now I'm spending about $450 instead of $180. Oops. I said it last year, unless you can get a _killer_ deal on a Socket-462 mainboard -- do _not_ buy a new Socket-462. Go Socket-754 instead for the _same_price. Or consider Socket-939 for the future, especially since some mainboards are ATX1.0 tolerant. > If I was sure it was worth it, It has *0* to do with 64-bit. It has to do with the fact that memory and I/O kicks ass on Socket-754 and, even more so, 939. Then add in the fact that Sempron/Athlon64 do SSE2 and the new Rev.E Venice cores do SSE3, while even the latest rev. Athlon XP-"M" only does SSE. Now consider the fact that Athlon XP is _dead_, AMD _stopped_ producing them months ago. All you have is Sempron, and the only way to 64-bit is the new Sempron on Socket-754 _only_ -- no Socket-462 option planned. > I might take the plunge, but if the least expensive A64 > stuff now isn't that good That's changed since the Sempron 3300+/3400+ were introduced. And even the Sempron 2800+ bests the Athlon XP2800+ in many applications. > and you really need to spend even a bit more than $450, > that's way out of my range. $100-150 gets you Socket-754, and you can even recycle your memory. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 11 17:41:34 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <1219.216.78.64.62.1123783556.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050811214135.15729.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > Or I'll need $150 PSU, ?!?!?! Are you buying an SLI setup with dual-GeForce 6800Ultra or 7800GTX cards ?!?!?! You only need to spend $150 for a P.S. with triple or quad +12V rails and (2) 6-pin WS/PCIe connectors. If not, then try about $50 for quality, split-+12V P.S. If you absolutely want the 6-pin WS/PCIe connector, then maybe $75. I'm running with an Athlon64 3200+, 1GB RAM, GeForce 6800GT 256MB DDR3 (100W!), (2) hard drives, (1) DVD-RAM/RW/+RW with a _measly_ 300W power supply (around ~345W max) that is an ATX2.0 with split +12V lines (only 15A and 10A). > $150 CPU, Okay, I agree there. > $100 board, Try $80 these days. And with the SLI X16, the nForce4 Standard/Ultra mainboards are going to drop to $60 very soon. And if you go nForce3, you can use AGP instead. > and $150 VC (-$100 Ebay'd value) versus $65 for a board, > $100 for a CPU, and ~ $70 for a deal on paired 512MBx2 > PC3200. Why are you upgrading your memory??? Didn't we discuss this? > As I've probably made clear before, I am very cheap. > I'll probably never even notice the difference between A64 > and an older highend A32 setup for the activities I perform > anyway. Why not Socket-754 because Socket-462 is _dead_?! Socket-754 is still very much AGP. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 11 17:47:12 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] RE: Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <1468.216.78.64.62.1123787324.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050811214712.7581.qmail@web34111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > I think an upgrade is strongly suggested if I'm going to > run a 6600GT. NV43 (6600[GT]) sucks up a lot less juice than NV40 (6800[GT|Ultra]). > I think I will look again at the nForce3 boards, though. > With the ~ $118 price for the cheapest A64 and AGP 3.0 > support on the nForce3 boards, going A64 is starting to > appear more realistic now. Don't forget Socket-754! You can get a Socket-754 Sempron 2800+ for under $80, and Socket-754 now has an upgrade path to 64-bit thanx to the new Sempron models (to compete with the new EM64T Celerons). I only said that Socket-754 wasn't worth it IMHO versus Socket-939 for $100 cheaper. But Socket-754 is _definitely_ worth it over Socket-462 for the _same_price_. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 11 18:03:05 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] NewEgg: Socket-754 nForce3 250 mainboards + Sempron 64 = $120-140! Message-ID: <20050811220305.36731.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I note 4 choices from $50-60: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?submit=PROPERTY&SubCategory=22&propertycodevalue=709:7494,719:7522&bop=and All the latest/last-gen AGP3.0/x8 with 0.8V support. All but 1 looked standard ATX1.0, and I bet the 1 that wasn't takes an ATX1.0 anyway (because unless it's an AGP"Pro" slot, it can't send more than 25W). And here are the Socket-754 from $65 upward: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?submit=PROPERTY&SubCategory=343&propertycodevalue=517:7438&bop=and Do you see what I see? You can get the Sempron 2800+ for $69.99, _or_ you can splurge for the Sempron _64_ 2800+ for $76. Better yet, $13 more = $89, will get you the Sempron _64_ 3000+ (and the non-64 for the same price). _All_ of those processors are 90nm Rev.D (SSE2). -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Aug 11 19:37:50 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] NewEgg: Socket-754 nForce3 250 mainboards + Sempron 64 = $120-140! In-Reply-To: <20050811220305.36731.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050811220305.36731.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1343.216.77.197.232.1123803470.squirrel@localhost> Bryan J. Smith said: > I note 4 choices from $50-60: > > > Do you see what I see? You can get the Sempron 2800+ for > $69.99, _or_ you can splurge for the Sempron _64_ 2800+ for > $76. Better yet, $13 more = $89, will get you the Sempron > _64_ 3000+ (and the non-64 for the same price). _All_ of > those processors are 90nm Rev.D (SSE2). Wow, sounds like a winner (for me). I guess I'll need to research the boards and pick one. I notice L2 is either 128K or 256K on the Semprons. Is that just a newegg typo or do they really differ? From jasonb at edseek.com Thu Aug 11 19:27:53 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <20050811214135.15729.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1219.216.78.64.62.1123783556.squirrel@localhost> <20050811214135.15729.qmail@web34115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1322.216.77.197.232.1123802873.squirrel@localhost> Bryan J. Smith said: > Jason Boxman wrote: >> Or I'll need $150 PSU, > > ?!?!?! Are you buying an SLI setup with dual-GeForce > 6800Ultra or 7800GTX cards ?!?!?! You only need to spend > $150 for a P.S. with triple or quad +12V rails and (2) 6-pin > WS/PCIe connectors. > > If not, then try about $50 for quality, split-+12V P.S. If > you absolutely want the 6-pin WS/PCIe connector, then maybe > $75. My bad. I know PSUs like the Antec True Power series are rather pricey, but are supposedly of superior quality. When I looked for decent PSUs two years ago the one I bought for $50 was about entry level I think. It would seem prices are more favorable now. > I'm running with an Athlon64 3200+, 1GB RAM, GeForce 6800GT > 256MB DDR3 (100W!), (2) hard drives, (1) DVD-RAM/RW/+RW with > a _measly_ 300W power supply (around ~345W max) that is an > ATX2.0 with split +12V lines (only 15A and 10A). Nice. >> $150 CPU, > > Okay, I agree there. > >> $100 board, > > Try $80 these days. But does that get you anything interesting? Granted I don't have any FireWire devices, SATA seems standard now, and I have few effective uses for GbE. The later would be nice to have, though, as GbE becomes more common place. I recently saw a switch, unmanaged, that claimed support for jumbo (9KiB) frames for about $60 AR. Then again, it may have been crap. Overtime I suspect the quality of 'consumer' GbE switches will increase, though. > And with the SLI X16, the nForce4 Standard/Ultra mainboards > are going to drop to $60 very soon. > > And if you go nForce3, you can use AGP instead. I'll have to. I already dropped the cash for the VC thinking that would be all I was going to buy, my current board being an AGP board. But then I realized one game in particular is rather I/O intensive and is too boring to play on my old system. (It takes 30 minutes, realtime to get anywhere on the world map playing Silent Hunter III, a subsim, using full in-game time compression. That makes it quite boring. It's much faster for players who own modern systems, though.) >> and $150 VC (-$100 Ebay'd value) versus $65 for a board, >> $100 for a CPU, and ~ $70 for a deal on paired 512MBx2 >> PC3200. > > Why are you upgrading your memory??? > Didn't we discuss this? We did. I would have upgraded the memory on an nForce2 Ultra 400 so I could run the CPU and RAM in sync. I understand that with an nForce3 or nForce4 solution the memory speed no longer matters relative to the CPU, since the concept of the FSB is no longer there. >> As I've probably made clear before, I am very cheap. >> I'll probably never even notice the difference between A64 >> and an older highend A32 setup for the activities I perform >> anyway. > > Why not Socket-754 because Socket-462 is _dead_?! > Socket-754 is still very much AGP. Mostly, because I am out of touch with modern hardware and the initial price of the A64 3000+ is quite a huge sticker shock to someone who's never paid more than $60 for a CPU, save my Cyrix P150+ for about $150 back in '97. What you've said makes sense and is reassuring. I am definitely going to move to either 754 or 939. I may do the former and get the absolute least expensive quality mainboard and lowest end CPU I can find, perhaps one of the 64-bit Semprons. I found this Sempron to be pretty inexpensive. The newegg listings indicate you can buy both 128K and 256K L2 cache models of 64-bit Semprons. I'm shooting for the 256K variants, of course. AMD Sempron 64 2800+ Palermo 800MHz FSB Socket 754 Processor Model SDA2800BXBOX - Retail - $76 I am getting the impression I shouldn't settle for a mainboard with any chipset other than nForce3 (for 754) or nForce4 (or better, for 939)? I see the prices on the 754 stuff is very, very inexpensive as you said. I'm definitely moving to 754 on the cheap then. 754 is about to be dead though, too, isn't it? ;) From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net Thu Aug 11 20:04:28 2005 From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (Austin Denyer (Ozz)) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <1133.216.78.64.62.1123780812.squirrel@localhost> References: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859133@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> <1133.216.78.64.62.1123780812.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050811200428.31678e62.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 13:20:12 -0400 (EDT), "Jason Boxman" wrote: > > And, my old PSU is probably insufficient, so that's another $150 for a > quality PSU. Now I'm spending about $450 instead of $180. Oops. You shouldn't have to spend anything like that on a PSU. Earlier this year I got a 535W PSU (Enermax EG565P-FMA REV.2.0 ATX 2.0 w/SLI Support) from Monarch for $99, and that sucker was major overkill. The main reason I got it was because I'm running a lot of additional stuff (lotsa drives, etc.). Remember too that the AMD64 often draws less power than the older Athlons. My AMD64 3000+ draws about 25% of the power my 1.3GHz Athlon used to pull. Regards, Ozz. From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Thu Aug 11 20:21:53 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859179@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> [$80 mobo] > But does that get you anything interesting? Shop around. You'll tend to get Firewire, SATA, USB 2.0 High Speed, etc, all the good basics. > I am getting the impression I shouldn't settle for a > mainboard with any chipset other than nForce3 (for 754) or > nForce4 (or better, for 939)? Looking at the reviews it seems this is true. > 754 is about to be dead though, too, isn't it? ;) Yeah, Socket 939 looks to become the new low-end next year when they bring out *another* new socket type. Still, with a socket 939 you can start off with a base CPU now and upgrade to a faster dual-core chip later, which is my intention. Probably late next year I'll upgrade a few bits (CPU, gfx, maybe RAID), for now I'm just going to get my backup drive going and we'll be grand :) -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 11 20:35:50 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] NewEgg: Socket-754 nForce3 250 mainboards + Sempron 64 = $120-140! In-Reply-To: <1343.216.77.197.232.1123803470.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050812003550.74821.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > I guess I'll need to research the boards and pick one. Yeah, look at your choices. Remember, nForce is extremely Linux compatible as long as you are running kernels 2.4.23/2.6.5 or greater. > I notice L2 is either 128K or 256K on the Semprons. Is > that just a newegg typo or do they really differ? That's why the Semprons are cheaper, they have less cache. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 11 20:37:40 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D1859179@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050812003741.32042.qmail@web34108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > Yeah, Socket 939 looks to become the new low-end next year > when they bring out *another* new socket type. ??? Only DDR2 _might_ change this. Socket-754 is the "new Duron" platform. It's not going away anytime soon. My point was and continues to be, Socket-939 is _best_, but do _not_ even look at Socket-462 -- it died last year. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From dmckenna at thelimucompany.com Thu Aug 11 20:44:55 2005 From: dmckenna at thelimucompany.com (Damien McKenna) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? Message-ID: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D185917A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> > Damien McKenna wrote: > > Yeah, Socket 939 looks to become the new low-end next year > > when they bring out *another* new socket type. > > ??? Only DDR2 _might_ change this. http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2476 > Socket-754 is the "new Duron" platform. > It's not going away anytime soon. My guess is that it'll be pushed towards the low-end OEM market (eMachines et al) while Socket 939 gets reduced in price even more to the point where the retail difference between 754 and 939 is negligible, and I'm guessing that'll start happening this year. Just my caffeine-overdose-induced chicken-entrails guess though. -- Damien McKenna - Web Developer - Damien.McKenna@thelimucompany.com The Limu Company - http://www.thelimucompany.com/ - 407-804-1014 #include From b.j.smith at ieee.org Thu Aug 11 20:57:26 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Staying with 32-bit: PC3200 or PC4000, 166 or 200MHz Athlon? In-Reply-To: <5C9DC445A45FEC4185D272DAF6AF37D185917A@tlc001.tlcusa.thelimucompany.com> Message-ID: <20050812005726.87428.qmail@web34101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Damien McKenna wrote: > http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2476 Then that's what it is, a new socket. They are basically introducing a new socket to prevent people from blowing their memory. DDR and DDR2 signaling is not compatible, hence why you can't use the same processor. Understand the DDR channels are _direct_pin-outs_ on the Socket-754, 939 and 940 -- 184-pins/true 64-bit DDR channel, hence 754+184=938. > My guess is that it'll be pushed towards the low-end OEM > market (eMachines et al) They've done that already by dropping the Athlon 64. Again, I have been advocating Socket-939 since last year. And I said do _not_ buy a new Socket-462 platform. If you were really cheap, just get a Socket-754. > while Socket 939 gets reduced in price even more to > the point where the retail difference between 754 and > 939 is negligible, and I'm guessing that'll start happening > this year. I see M2 replacing Socket-939 from Anand's roadmap. It's clear that AMD is only going to offer a few parts for it. And AMD had already said they'd eventually come out with Sempron for Socket-939. From the roadmap, I see both. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From tim at mcdonough.net Fri Aug 12 11:40:03 2005 From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Email Troubleshooting Message-ID: <42FCC2D3.1050108@mcdonough.net> I'm having some email trouble when users are sending mail between two domains and am looking for thoughts on how to troubleshoot and resolve the problem. Here's the situation: There are two domains which are hosted by two different ISPs who also provide the email services for each location. When anyone@domainA.com sends an email to anyone@domainB.com it can take hours or even days for the message to be delivered. anyone@domainA.com can send emails to other domains and they are typically delivered within seconds/minutes. anyone@domainB.com can send email to anyone@domainA.com and it is delivered withi seconds/minutes. These big delays only occur when email is sent from Domain A to Domain B and, as far as we can determine, not any other time. I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of email systems, I'm just looking for things to check and the right questions to ask the providers. Of course, initially oth ISPs have said "everything is okay on our end". Fixing this is somewhat of a priority--one of the company's owners is at Domain A! Thanks in advance for any pointers. -- Tim From work at sprynet.com Fri Aug 12 13:41:34 2005 From: work at sprynet.com (J.T. Hayden) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:11 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Email Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <42FCC2D3.1050108@mcdonough.net> Message-ID: <02c901c59f65$15623c80$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Sounds like a filering peer issue, if they are not "peered" correctly there is a lag in the send/receive of the mail (they are sent to the bottom of the send/receive que) plus any spam/virii checks at that point are delayed also slowing delivery J.T. Hayden -----Original Message----- From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Tim McDonough Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11.40 To: This is the PC Support list. Subject: [Pc_Support] Email Troubleshooting I'm having some email trouble when users are sending mail between two domains and am looking for thoughts on how to troubleshoot and resolve the problem. Here's the situation: There are two domains which are hosted by two different ISPs who also provide the email services for each location. When anyone@domainA.com sends an email to anyone@domainB.com it can take hours or even days for the message to be delivered. anyone@domainA.com can send emails to other domains and they are typically delivered within seconds/minutes. anyone@domainB.com can send email to anyone@domainA.com and it is delivered withi seconds/minutes. These big delays only occur when email is sent from Domain A to Domain B and, as far as we can determine, not any other time. I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of email systems, I'm just looking for things to check and the right questions to ask the providers. Of course, initially oth ISPs have said "everything is okay on our end". Fixing this is somewhat of a priority--one of the company's owners is at Domain A! Thanks in advance for any pointers. -- Tim _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support@matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From tim at mcdonough.net Fri Aug 12 14:40:39 2005 From: tim at mcdonough.net (Tim McDonough) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Email Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <02c901c59f65$15623c80$650aa8c0@xpmaster> References: <02c901c59f65$15623c80$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Message-ID: <42FCED27.2000809@mcdonough.net> Any suggestion as to which ISP may have the settings "sub-optimal"? J.T. Hayden wrote: > Sounds like a filering peer issue, if they are not "peered" correctly > there is a lag in the send/receive of the mail (they are sent to the > bottom of the send/receive que) plus any spam/virii checks at that point > are delayed also slowing delivery > > J.T. Hayden > > -----Original Message----- > From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com > [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Tim McDonough > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11.40 > To: This is the PC Support list. > Subject: [Pc_Support] Email Troubleshooting > > > I'm having some email trouble when users are sending mail between two > domains and am looking for thoughts on how to troubleshoot and resolve > the problem. Here's the situation: > > There are two domains which are hosted by two different ISPs who also > provide the email services for each location. When anyone@domainA.com > sends an email to anyone@domainB.com it can take hours or even days > for the message to be delivered. > > anyone@domainA.com can send emails to other domains and they are > typically delivered within seconds/minutes. > > anyone@domainB.com can send email to anyone@domainA.com and it is > delivered withi seconds/minutes. > > These big delays only occur when email is sent from Domain A to Domain > B and, as far as we can determine, not any other time. > > I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of email systems, I'm just > looking for things to check and the right questions to ask the > providers. Of course, initially oth ISPs have said "everything is okay > on our end". > > Fixing this is somewhat of a priority--one of the company's owners is > at Domain A! > > Thanks in advance for any pointers. > -- Tim From work at sprynet.com Fri Aug 12 15:56:52 2005 From: work at sprynet.com (J.T. Hayden) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Email Troubleshooting In-Reply-To: <42FCED27.2000809@mcdonough.net> Message-ID: <02f601c59f77$fde009d0$650aa8c0@xpmaster> Well they both have them optimal for the services they are peered to, what has to happen IF you can arrange it is have THEM confer on optimization between themselves J.T. Hayden -----Original Message----- From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Tim McDonough Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 14.41 To: work@mindspring.com; This is the PC Support list. Subject: Re: [Pc_Support] Email Troubleshooting Any suggestion as to which ISP may have the settings "sub-optimal"? J.T. Hayden wrote: > Sounds like a filering peer issue, if they are not "peered" correctly > there is a lag in the send/receive of the mail (they are sent to the > bottom of the send/receive que) plus any spam/virii checks at that > point are delayed also slowing delivery > > J.T. Hayden > > -----Original Message----- > From: pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com > [mailto:pc_support-bounces@matrixlist.com] On Behalf Of Tim McDonough > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11.40 > To: This is the PC Support list. > Subject: [Pc_Support] Email Troubleshooting > > > I'm having some email trouble when users are sending mail between two > domains and am looking for thoughts on how to troubleshoot and resolve > the problem. Here's the situation: > > There are two domains which are hosted by two different ISPs who also > provide the email services for each location. When anyone@domainA.com > sends an email to anyone@domainB.com it can take hours or even days > for the message to be delivered. > > anyone@domainA.com can send emails to other domains and they are > typically delivered within seconds/minutes. > > anyone@domainB.com can send email to anyone@domainA.com and it is > delivered withi seconds/minutes. > > These big delays only occur when email is sent from Domain A to Domain > B and, as far as we can determine, not any other time. > > I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of email systems, I'm just > looking for things to check and the right questions to ask the > providers. Of course, initially oth ISPs have said "everything is okay > on our end". > > Fixing this is somewhat of a priority--one of the company's owners is > at Domain A! > > Thanks in advance for any pointers. > -- Tim _______________________________________________ Pc_support mailing list Pc_support@matrixlist.com http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Aug 14 00:10:45 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: I told you so.. In-Reply-To: <001801c5a083$4fa1f060$0203a8c0@hbco> Message-ID: <20050814041045.29977.qmail@web34114.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill Smith wrote: > Hi Brian, > This is likely old news to you, but ran across this > article. You have been predicting this for some time. > Kudos to you! > http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050812/D8BU2UI00.html Well, I'm waiting on more technical details. I.e., Let's see if it's the "Yamhill2" I have been predicting. If it's Intel's first x86[-64] redesign since Pentium Pro (i686) of 1994, then that's good news for Intel. I have predicted the EM64T design team codenamed as "Yamhill" was up to more than simple some extensions for Pentium 4, and that would take 36+ months like a traditional, full design. If os, I believe they have the first, full redesign since Pentium Pro. The P4 was just a 18-month "hack" known as "NetBurst" architecture market-wise, "extend the pipes and clock" reality-wise, with most performance gains coming from the 2nd, "lossy" SSE pipe. But don't think AMD is just lying down either. Their 1999 Athlon core might be only 6 years old, but that's the typical lifespan before a redesign. With AMD's purposely limiting the Athlon (including A64/Opteron, which use the same, 40-bit core) to only 1MB L2 -- even though the EV6 logic they are based on supports upto 8MB L2 -- is a sure sign that they have a full redesign in the work too. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Sun Aug 14 00:21:20 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] AOpen F90GS 19" LCD for $240 -- AOpen LCD same, portable design as Sceptre? Message-ID: <20050814042120.51114.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> DealNews just passed on that NewEgg.com has the AOpen F90GS 19" (1280x1024, DVI/VGA, 12ms response) is $299.99 - $10 instant - $50 mail-in, for $239.99 total. http://dealnews.com/deals/AOpen-F90-GS-19-LCD-Display-for-240-after-rebate/93280.html?ref=dndaily In looking at the pictures for the monitor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.asp?image=24-174-029-01.jpg,24-174-029-03.jpg,24-174-029-04.jpg,24-174-029-02.jpg,24-174-029-05.jpg,24-174-029-06.jpg&CurImage=24-174-029-01.jpg&Description=AOpen%20F90GS%20Black%2019%22%2012ms%20LCD%20Monitor%20-%20Retail I want to say it looks like the same, ultra-portable ("fold base back and put in box") design as the Sceptre 19" I have. I really want a 12ms response LCD to replace my 25ms Sceptre for video/gaming, while being the exact same resolution (and close to same height) so it can be the primary head with the Sceptre as the secondary head (which would be off for gaming). I thought someone else here bought an AOpen recently? Or was that another (Acer?) vendor? Let me know because the deal is up today (Sunday). -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From m9u35g at gmail.com Sun Aug 14 22:54:56 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Change CPU clock multiplier IN LINUX? Message-ID: <46f680d05081419541eb681f6@mail.gmail.com> Hi Guys, I got an AMD Athlon XP Mobile 2600+ 266MHz processor for a motherboard that supports the non-mobile version of the same spec. >From what I have read [1], the "mobile" series works in desktops, "but the problem is you must have a board that lets you recognize and change the multipliers, since the mobile starts up initially at its lowest multiplier and you must change it by bios to get up to its max speed." I put the mobile CPU in my Biostar M7VIW and it works just fine, except, as the guy said, it starts on its lowest multiplier, which means I only get 800MHz. I upgraded to the latest BIOS but unfortunately this board does _not_ allow you to change the clock multiplier! HOWEVER, there are several different Windows programs that allow you to change these settings from within Windows! Some of the most popular ones: http://crystalmark.info/software/CrystalCPUID/index-e.html http://www.cpuheat.wz.cz/html/CPUMSR_main.htm My question: can I do this from linux? Thanks! [1] http://forums.amd.com/lofiversion/index.php/t22692.html -- Justin Keyes From m9u35g at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 13:56:53 2005 From: m9u35g at gmail.com (Justin M. Keyes) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] AOpen F90GS 19" LCD for $240 -- AOpen LCD same, portable design as Sceptre? In-Reply-To: <20050814042120.51114.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050814042120.51114.qmail@web34106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46f680d05081510565ba3c1b8@mail.gmail.com> On 8/14/05, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > I want to say it looks like the same, ultra-portable ("fold > base back and put in box") design as the Sceptre 19" I have. > I really want a 12ms response LCD to replace my 25ms Sceptre > for video/gaming, while being the exact same resolution (and > close to same height) so it can be the primary head with the > Sceptre as the secondary head (which would be off for > gaming). > > I thought someone else here bought an AOpen recently? I bought the 16ms model. No problems with it so far, except, as I mentioned originally, it doesn't seem to cooperate with power management--when linux turns it off for power management, the monitor detects it and turns back _on_ to tell me that there is no signal -- then linux turns it off again... then it turns itself back on again... etc. I haven't tried switching the BIOS power management type (because I didn't think linux listened to the BIOS about anything anyways), but for now I just turn it off manually whenever I leave ;( Here is the previous thread: http://lists.matrixlist.com/pipermail/pc_support/2005-June/000415.html -- Justin Keyes From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Aug 15 16:30:37 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! Message-ID: <20050815203037.83270.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wife is in the market for a new color printer. We've stretched our ink jets on long enough, and we really tire of the combination of the cost of ink cartridges combined with the reality that we're not doing photo-quality 99% of the time. A few weeks ago, Dealnews had the HP Color LaserJet 2600N on sale for $339.98: http://dealnews.com/deals/HP-Color-Laser-Jet-2600-N-Laser-Printer-for-340-shipped/92782.html Although it has a network interface, it was clearly as "host" driven printer designed only for the Windows Graphical Display Interface (GDI) and the fixed memory amount left much to be desired (and to network traffic). I mean, who cares if it does dozens of pages per minute in color if you can't feed it anything of substance (i.e., the communications is the bottleneck)? But today, lo'n behold, the Dell 3100cn Color Laser was on sale for $329.40, about the same price as its 3000cn brotheren. http://dealnews.com/deals/Dell-3100-cn-Color-Laser-Printer-for-329-shipped/93496.html?ref=dndaily The 3100cn, unlike the 3000cn, comes with a host of additions -- beyond just the paper trays, FULL POSTSCRIPT LEVEL 3 SUPPORT! Driven with an on-board 300MHz RISC processor and 64MB of RAM (expandable to 576MB), this is a serious printer for a low price. Yes, that's MacOS X and Linux support out-of-the-box, offering Line Printer Daemon (LPD) support (IPP and other options are available for a $99 add-on). In reading reviews, the color for a Laser is the best you'll get short of a leading edge photo-quality inkjet, and is better than the latter when you need to mix text and graphics (e.g., publication). Most people said skip the optional ($300) duplexer, it's got alignment issues that seem to be inherent to the design. A few others complained about Dell failing to ship the unit with internal packaging, and that it could result in it being damaged upon arrival. And we all know how India's--er, I mean Dell's support is. ;-> Hmmm, with that said, I think I'm going to chance it. I could really use a network printer for home ever since my IBM NP17 had sensor issues. My wife's current HP LaserJet 1200se eats through cartridges at a good cost (several cents/page) and the Dell 3100cn at just over a cent/page block seems to best even my aged Lexmark E310 at price-per back'n white (let alone our inkjet printers at colors). -- Bryan P.S. Just to be complete, there is the Dell 5100cn which DealNews mentioned is also on-sale for $699.30 shipped: http://dealnews.com/deals/Dell-5100-cn-Color-Laser-Printer-for-699-shipped/93498.html?ref=dndaily It is much, much faster at color, comes with the duplexer built-in and has other goodies (some standard, some still optional -- like the IPP/NCP/SMB support?). I also saw some notes that its color wasn't as good, but that could have been a dated review. IMHO, I'd rather spend half as much, especially since the warranty is still 1 year. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From brianashelist at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 17:22:08 2005 From: brianashelist at yahoo.com (Brian Ashe) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! In-Reply-To: <20050815203037.83270.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050815212209.99800.qmail@web34012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Wife is in the market for a new color printer. Funny, I've been looking recently myself. (Note: I am not Bryan's wife.) I was looking at a $500 model and a $300 one. IIRC, one was some flavor of HP 2550. Had networking but I didn't look at RAM, etc. I think it was PostScript. Looking online, toner for 2550s is $100 per color. For $500, it probably ships with "starter rolls"--aka, half-empty. (Or half-full, depending on your POV. :-) ) The $300 model was, I think, from Brother, on sale at Office Depot. (Not saying these are better, just giving you some background.) Hadn't yet gotten 'round to checking it out, just saw it in the Sunday paper sales flyers. > But today, lo'n behold, the Dell 3100cn Color Laser > was on > sale for $329.40, about the same price as its 3000cn > brotheren. Sweet! Are these re-badged HPs? Where do you get consumables? Dell? HP? Searching CompUSA.com for 'hp 3100' I see only black: http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=50170019&pfp=SEARCH The same search at CDW comes up empty. I can't get through to dell.com right now. Have you priced consumables? What does it work out to, price-per-page? > And > we all > know how India's--er, I mean Dell's support is. ;-> FYI, I recently had the displeasure of going a couple rounds with some Apple customer (not tech) support people, all of whom had mild British accents. :-p Same everywhere, I suppose. (Though Dell brought their Corporate support people back to TX, IIRC. Baby steps...) ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Aug 15 18:06:08 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! In-Reply-To: <20050815212209.99800.qmail@web34012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050815220608.51260.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Brian Ashe wrote: > Funny, I've been looking recently myself. > (Note: I am not Bryan's wife.) Now that's a thought I didn't want. @-p > I was looking at a $500 model and a $300 one. > IIRC, one was some flavor of HP 2550. Reviews say the Dell is a Fuji-Xerox design. The 2550 lists a Motorola (PowerPC I assume, if not MCore) 264MHz and Postscript Level 3. I think some of the 300-400MHz in other products are either ARM variants, possibly Intel XScale (Superscalar ARM). I want to say Xerox is XScale now, but I could be wrong. HP has traditionally been Moto -- especially for the cheapy GDI approach/support (i.e., "host driven") -- but they flop regularly between products. I was just happy to see something under $400 with a beefy intelligence, amount of RAM and Postscript Level 3 in the unit itself. Dell is not shy, they put Linux compatibility right the specification page. They also state that the network does LPD -- there is a $99 upgrade for printer-based IPP, IPX/NCP and SMB support. I'll just use LPD and handle queuing at my real server if I need it. > Had networking but I didn't look at RAM, etc. As long as they work with MacOS X, they can't be "host-based" -- at least not easily. Most that do Mac also do Linux, at least in the Lasers because they at least have PCL, if not Postscript. > I think it was PostScript. Looking online, toner for 2550s > is $100 per color. Yeah, the toner costs gets up there. But thinking to ink, it's not really any worse, and typically much better/more economical. > For $500, it probably ships with "starter rolls"--aka, > half-empty. (Or half-full, depending on your POV. :-) ) The Dell 3x00cn series uses 2,000 and 4,000 sheet BCYM toner cartrides. I bet they are only 2,000 as shipped, at least for the CYM. $95 for the CYM, $45 for the B. The 5x00cn seems to cut costs more with 9,000 B and 8,000 CYM, specially on the black costs. > The $300 model was, I think, from Brother, on sale at Office > Depot. (Not saying these are better, just giving you some > background.) Hadn't yet gotten 'round to checking it > out, just saw it in the Sunday paper sales flyers. Yeah, I've been looking at DealNews regularly. I mentioned the HP Color LaserJet 2600N a few weeks ago and she wasn't interested. Then she came back later and said she was, but after the sale was up. I'm glad I waited because this Dell is PS3/LPD with a real, on-board intelligence, whereas the 2600N was a host-based with limited/fixed RAM that probably killed the high rate of color PPM. > Sweet! Are these re-badged HPs? Where do you get > consumables? Dell? HP? Searching CompUSA.com for 'hp > 3100' I see only black: >http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=50170019&pfp=SEARCH > The same search at CDW comes up empty. I can't get > through to dell.com right now. Have you priced > consumables? What does it work out to, price-per-page? Although I haven't "kept up to date" on all the latest models, the price-per-page of just the black'n white versus my current lasers was the "final selling point." The black is 1.1 cents/page, add another half-cent for the drum, for 1.6 cents/page. The color is 8.2 cents/page, add another 1.7 cents/page for dum, for 9.9 cents/page total. Not bad at all for that price point (with Dell's more expensive 5100cn knocking a half-cent off black, about 2.5 off color). My current best is my 6-year old Lexmark E310 (Postscript Level 2), which gets 10,000 pages per $160 extended toner, or 1.6 cents/page not including drum. The drum is rated around 20,000 pages, and I've just about crossed it. Not sure how much it costs. My wife's current printer is a 3.5 year-old HP LaserJet 1220se (print/scan/copy), which gets about 3.1 cents/page, not great at all. Sure, the toners only cost $65, but I only get 2,000 sheets. Haven't hit the drum life, which is around 20,000 as well IIRC. So this printer is definitely an improvement, just for black'n white. ;-> > FYI, I recently had the displeasure of going a couple > rounds with some Apple customer (not tech) support > people, all of whom had mild British accents. :-p > Same everywhere, I suppose. (Though Dell brought their > Corporate support people back to TX, IIRC. Baby > steps...) Were they British? Or were they Hong Kong-like British? -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Mon Aug 15 18:14:27 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! -- OT comment In-Reply-To: <20050815220608.51260.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050815221427.99697.qmail@web34107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > My current best is my 6-year old Lexmark E310 (Postscript > Level 2), which gets 10,000 pages per $160 extended toner, > or 1.6 cents/page not including drum. The drum is rated > around 20,000 pages, and I've just about crossed it. Not > sure how much it costs. BTW, just an OT comment, this printer was a Godsend when I was a teacher. I couldn't get a copier card (seniority type BS, only worse), so I used to either get the electronic forms (typically PDF) of the materials (typically for science), or generate my own (for math via LyX). My printer was running day'n night when I was a teacher and the sucker never hiccuped, and maybe jammed no more than 3-4 times. I know I reeled off a good 10,000 pages just as a teacher, about 250 pages every other day on average. I know a lot of teachers were envious that I had my own notebook and printer, especially the younger teachers who were in the same "lack of seniority" boat I was, but didn't have the financial resources/existing computer hardware that I did. I used to help them out all I could, and generated math worksheets with LyX and graphs with GNUPlot and other tools. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From mflang at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 15 19:12:38 2005 From: mflang at bellsouth.net (Max F Lang) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! In-Reply-To: <20050815212209.99800.qmail@web34012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050815212209.99800.qmail@web34012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200508151912.38782.mflang@bellsouth.net> On Monday 15 August 2005 17:22, Brian Ashe wrote: > $300 one. IIRC, one was some flavor of HP 2550. Had > networking but I didn't look at RAM, etc. I think it > was PostScript. Looking online, toner for 2550s is > $100 per color. For $500, it probably ships with > "starter rolls"--aka, half-empty. (Or half-full, > depending on your POV. :-) ) The $300 model was, I Brian, we use the LJ2550 at work for printing color lab reports in physician offices. This is a printer I'm coming to know well... The built-in print server is an onboard DirectJet 625. You can't remove it, but it's exactly the same thing firmware-wise. Does the usual IP, IPX, IPP and AppleTalk, with both an easy browser and telnet session based interface. They come with 32M ram standard. The toners included in the box are exactly the same carts you buy. They are rated for 6K pages in color, and the black cart is rated for 7K. And that's about what we get. They're not noobie carts at all, and yes, replacements are $$$, even at our corporate discount. The 2550 is a dumptruck of a printer: big, heavy, and awful slow to start. It usually takes about 20 seconds to start printing. But just like a dumptruck, once it starts going, it doesn't want to stop. In fact, the printer is best for long print jobs, where it just keeps printing along. For those clients who just print out a couple pages at a time, we usually will just put in a Lexmark Optra color inkjet, since it will usually finish a small job before the 2550 is even fully warmed up to start a job. Also like a dumptruck, the 2550 can be terribly dirty. After the first toner cart replacement, I was shocked how colorful the insides of the printer were, and yet it kept printing so nicely. I've had other models that a little spilled color toner, and it was an afternoon of cleaning the guts. I had a client "drop" a 2550. I picked it up, vacuumed out the excess toner, set it back up, and it was printing like always. The average color Oki would have been ruined, ready to toss in the garbage. Beware, though: we are somthing of a Citrix shop, and the 2550 just plain does not work with Citrix. In those rare cases, the only color LJ that works consistently is the earlier color 2500. Which you can still buy from HP new, they just don't advertise it and will try to deny at first. Max. From whittake at sbaflorida.com Mon Aug 15 19:22:02 2005 From: whittake at sbaflorida.com (Homer Whittaker) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! In-Reply-To: <20050815212209.99800.qmail@web34012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050815212209.99800.qmail@web34012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4301239A.7080106@sbaflorida.com> Brian Ashe wrote: >>Wife is in the market for a new color printer. >> >> > >Funny, I've been looking recently myself. (Note: I am >not Bryan's wife.) I was looking at a $500 model and a >$300 one. IIRC, one was some flavor of HP 2550. Had >networking but I didn't look at RAM, etc. I think it >was PostScript. Looking online, toner for 2550s is >$100 per color. For $500, it probably ships with >"starter rolls"--aka, half-empty. (Or half-full, >depending on your POV. :-) ) The $300 model was, I >think, from Brother, on sale at Office Depot. (Not >saying these are better, just giving you some >background.) Hadn't yet gotten 'round to checking it >out, just saw it in the Sunday paper sales flyers. > > > >>But today, lo'n behold, the Dell 3100cn Color Laser >>was on >>sale for $329.40, about the same price as its 3000cn >>brotheren. >> >> > >Sweet! Are these re-badged HPs? Where do you get >consumables? Dell? HP? Searching CompUSA.com for 'hp >3100' I see only black: >http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=50170019&pfp=SEARCH >The same search at CDW comes up empty. I can't get >through to dell.com right now. Have you priced >consumables? What does it work out to, price-per-page? > > > >>And >>we all >>know how India's--er, I mean Dell's support is. ;-> >> >> > >FYI, I recently had the displeasure of going a couple >rounds with some Apple customer (not tech) support >people, all of whom had mild British accents. :-p >Same everywhere, I suppose. (Though Dell brought their >Corporate support people back to TX, IIRC. Baby >steps...) > > > > >____________________________________________________ >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > >_______________________________________________ >Pc_support mailing list >Pc_support@matrixlist.com >http://lists.matrixlist.com/mailman/listinfo/pc_support > > > Brian: I suggest that you look at the Lexmark printers. They are Professional grade when they print! HOWEVER, and I say it again, however you should examine their tech sheets to make sure that your flavor of Linux is supported. If not you do not get to utilize all of their excellent programming. I get dissed off at them because of their limited linux support but they are good! Homer Whittaker From ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net Mon Aug 15 22:01:08 2005 From: ozz at ozz.is-a-geek.net (Austin Denyer (Ozz)) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! In-Reply-To: <20050815220608.51260.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050815212209.99800.qmail@web34012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20050815220608.51260.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050815220108.45657455.ozz@ozz.is-a-geek.net> On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:06:08 -0700 (PDT), "Bryan J. Smith" wrote: > > Brian Ashe wrote: > > > FYI, I recently had the displeasure of going a couple > > rounds with some Apple customer (not tech) support > > people, all of whom had mild British accents. :-p > > Same everywhere, I suppose. (Though Dell brought their > > Corporate support people back to TX, IIRC. Baby > > steps...) > > Were they British? Or were they Hong Kong-like British? And no - I was not one of them #;-D Regards, Ozz. From jasonb at edseek.com Tue Aug 16 00:22:37 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] XFX DoA Issues In-Reply-To: <200507310030.25277.jasonb@edseek.com> References: <200507310030.25277.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <1447.192.168.0.13.1124166157.squirrel@localhost> Jason Boxman said: > fyi, I am finding a lot of threads about dead XFX cards now that I'm in a > situation where I need to RMA my card. It seems XFX is known to be one of > the worst when it comes to DoA problems and other failures. I've read a few > accounts of people going through multiple RMAs before receiving a working > card. > > Out of the two dozen different companies selling knock off NVidias, I guess > I > picked the worst. > > ;) ROFL. My RMA'd card is dead too. Getting another RMA. Going to see if Monarch will let me get an eVGA 6600GT instead. Same symptoms as before. I tried all the same resolutions. Going to give XFX's 800 # a try tomorrow during the day to see if they have anything useful to contribute. Sigh. From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 16 09:38:26 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! In-Reply-To: <4301239A.7080106@sbaflorida.com> References: <20050815212209.99800.qmail@web34012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4301239A.7080106@sbaflorida.com> Message-ID: <1124199506.4679.22.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2005-08-15 at 19:22 -0400, Homer Whittaker wrote: > Brian: I suggest that you look at the Lexmark printers. They are > Professional grade when they print! I know, I have one, the old Lexmark Optra E310. 6 years-old, it works like a champ at almost 20,000 pages. I take it everywhere with me, having both IEEE1284 and USB ports. I suspect the drum is nearing replacement though. > HOWEVER, and I say it again, however you should examine their tech > sheets to make sure that your flavor of Linux is supported. If not you > do not get to utilize all of their excellent programming. I only buy Postscript printers that do the Postscript at the device-end (with on-board intelligence) for maximum compatibility. Both my current Lexmark Optra E310 and HP LaserJet 1220se do Postscript Level 2 and have 100% Linux compatibility. The LaserJet 1220se is even supported for scanning under Linux: http://hpoj.sourceforge.net/suplist.shtml This Dell 3100cn is a Postscript Level 3 printer. > I get dissed off at them because of their limited linux support but they > are good! -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 16 09:41:28 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! In-Reply-To: <200508151912.38782.mflang@bellsouth.net> References: <20050815212209.99800.qmail@web34012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200508151912.38782.mflang@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <1124199688.4679.26.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2005-08-15 at 19:12 -0400, Max F Lang wrote: > Brian, we use the LJ2550 at work for printing color lab reports in > physician offices. This is a printer I'm coming to know well... > The built-in print server is an onboard DirectJet 625. You can't > remove it, but it's exactly the same thing firmware-wise. Does the > usual IP, IPX, IPP and AppleTalk, with both an easy browser and > telnet session based interface. They come with 32M ram standard. > The toners included in the box are exactly the same carts you buy. > They are rated for 6K pages in color, and the black cart is rated > for 7K. And that's about what we get. They're not noobie carts at > all, and yes, replacements are $$$, even at our corporate discount. I think this Dell 3100cn is different. It's a Fuji-Xerox engine, cartridges are 4,000 sheets/each. > The 2550 is a dumptruck of a printer: big, heavy, and awful slow to > start. It usually takes about 20 seconds to start printing. But > just like a dumptruck, once it starts going, it doesn't want to > stop. In fact, the printer is best for long print jobs, where it > just keeps printing along. For those clients who just print out a > couple pages at a time, we usually will just put in a Lexmark Optra > color inkjet, since it will usually finish a small job before the > 2550 is even fully warmed up to start a job. I think most Lasers are like that in general. 15+ seconds to first page, a few break 10 seconds, but rarely. Most colors are 20+ seconds to first page. I'm still going to have my Lexmark Optra E310 connected to my PC and my wife's HP LaserJet 1220se connected to her PC, so those devices will still be options. The new Dell 3100cn will be located in between our two rooms (connected to the network) so either of us can grab things off of it. > Beware, though: we are somthing of a Citrix shop, and the 2550 just > plain does not work with Citrix. In those rare cases, the only > color LJ that works consistently is the earlier color 2500. Which > you can still buy from HP new, they just don't advertise it and > will try to deny at first. Worst case I will use WTS, but not Citrix, at home. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 16 10:00:24 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Dell 3100cn Color LaserJet with PostScript and LPD for $329.40 shipped! In-Reply-To: <20050815203037.83270.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050815203037.83270.qmail@web34104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1124200824.4679.39.camel@bert64.mobile.smithconcepts.com> On Mon, 2005-08-15 at 13:30 -0700, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > The 3100cn, unlike the 3000cn, comes with a host of additions > -- beyond just the paper trays, FULL POSTSCRIPT LEVEL 3 > SUPPORT! Driven with an on-board 300MHz RISC processor and > 64MB of RAM (expandable to 576MB), this is a serious printer > for a low price. In doing some research, I found this printer takes a standard PC133 SO- DIMM like most Dell notebooks. So instead of paying Dell $60, 70 or 150 + for their 128, 256 or 512MiB, respectively, I found an aftermarket dealer who specializes in 1:1 Dell parts. They offere the same for $15, 30 and 75, respectively. I grabbed the $30 256MiB module, although they clearly make up for it on shipping ($12 for UPS Ground!). Still, can't beat the price overall. I heard you need at least 128MiB to print a 600dpi 8x10" photo. That sounds about right just in raw pixels: (8in)(600/in) * (10in)(600/in) * [(24b) / (8b/B)] = 86.4MB I'm sure the Postscript overhead puts its at least twice as much. According to the reviews, 8x10" was doable with 192MiB. I'll have 320MiB. -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 16 12:28:54 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] More on Intel's shift back to i686 ... Message-ID: <20050816162855.14752.qmail@web34109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> More technical details are to follow at IDF. Looks like the last P4-design will be the 65nm "Pressler." eWeek Story: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1848474,00.asp?kc=ewnws081605dtx1k0000599 -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Tue Aug 16 12:50:20 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] XFX DoA Issues In-Reply-To: <1447.192.168.0.13.1124166157.squirrel@localhost> References: <200507310030.25277.jasonb@edseek.com> <1447.192.168.0.13.1124166157.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <1973.192.168.0.13.1124211020.squirrel@localhost> Jason Boxman said: > Jason Boxman said: >> fyi, I am finding a lot of threads about dead XFX cards now that I'm in a >> situation where I need to RMA my card. It seems XFX is known to be one of >> the worst when it comes to DoA problems and other failures. I've read a >> few >> accounts of people going through multiple RMAs before receiving a working >> card. >> >> Out of the two dozen different companies selling knock off NVidias, I >> guess >> I >> picked the worst. >> >> ;) > > ROFL. > > My RMA'd card is dead too. Getting another RMA. Going to see if Monarch > will let me get an eVGA 6600GT instead. > > Same symptoms as before. I tried all the same resolutions. Going to give > XFX's 800 # a try tomorrow during the day to see if they have anything > useful to contribute. Sigh. I called Monarch and they were well aware of the issues with the XFX cards. I'm getting a store credit, which I'll use to buy an eVGA which has a rebate currently. With shipping back RMA'd cards twice it'll end up costing the same $155 I got my borked XFX card. XFX: Never again. http://edseek.com/archives/2005/08/16/xfx-video-cards-6600gt-dont-waste-your-money/ From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 16 12:58:32 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Microsoft to invade Adobe's stronghold, tying XAML to Avalon ... Message-ID: <20050816165832.76022.qmail@web34102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Microsoft Next Target: Adobe http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/08/microsofts-next-target-adobe.html -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 16 13:04:30 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: XFX DoA Issues In-Reply-To: <1973.192.168.0.13.1124211020.squirrel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050816170430.96236.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > I called Monarch and they were well aware of the issues > with the XFX cards. > I'm getting a store credit, which I'll use to buy an eVGA > which has a rebate currently. With shipping back RMA'd > cards twice it'll end up costing the same $155 I got my > borked XFX card. XFX: Never again. Sorry about that. I've yet to buy a XFX video card (only my NetCell SR5000, which I'm still playing with under Linux for my A/V server -- although 2.6.12.x releases now have the ATA support). I have bought nVidia cards from BFG (my parent's current GF4Ti4200), eVGA (my current GF6800GT PCIe), MSI (my A/V server's current GF4Ti4400-VIVO), PNY (my wife's current GF6800GT AGP) and several others. -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers) From jasonb at edseek.com Tue Aug 16 13:19:57 2005 From: jasonb at edseek.com (Jason Boxman) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: XFX DoA Issues In-Reply-To: <20050816170430.96236.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050816170430.96236.qmail@web34105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200508161319.57628.jasonb@edseek.com> On Tuesday 16 August 2005 13:04, Bryan J. Smith wrote: > Sorry about that. I've yet to buy a XFX video card (only my > NetCell SR5000, which I'm still playing with under Linux for > my A/V server -- although 2.6.12.x releases now have the ATA > support). > > I have bought nVidia cards from BFG (my parent's current > GF4Ti4200), eVGA (my current GF6800GT PCIe), MSI (my A/V > server's current GF4Ti4400-VIVO), PNY (my wife's current > GF6800GT AGP) and several others. I just ordered the eVGA 6600GT. The BFG was quite a bit more. This time I'm going to take the free shipping and just wait a week. I am no longer in any hurry. I've gotten bored playing with video cards and lost interest in playing SH3 and BF2. -- Jason Boxman Perl Programmer / *NIX Systems Administrator Shimberg Center for Affordable Housing | University of Florida http://edseek.com/ - Linux and FOSS stuff From b.j.smith at ieee.org Tue Aug 16 17:07:04 2005 From: b.j.smith at ieee.org (Bryan J. Smith) Date: Tue Oct 31 13:17:12 2006 Subject: [Pc_Support] Re: XFX DoA Issues In-Reply-To: <200508161319.57628.jasonb@edseek.com> Message-ID: <20050816210704.3558.qmail@web34103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jason Boxman wrote: > I've gotten bored playing with video cards and lost > interest in playing SH3 and BF2. Well, I should have waited 3 months for the GeForce 7800GT PCIe, which is only $50 more than what I paid for my 6800GT PCIe in April. At 1280x1024 in 4xAA, BF2 can be 2x as fast as my 6800GT. I'm very tempted to upgrade and sell my 6800GT PCIe for $250, if anyone wants it for that price. Or I might just upgrade my wife to PCIe once and for all, and sell her 6800GT AGP. Or I might just be content for now. |-< -- Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any http://thebs413